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How to win a state title.

Started by Gray lizard, December 12, 2016, 03:28:02 pm

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Gray lizard

Fist of all thanks to the powers that be for getting the games on the TV.

I noticed a few things in common after watch all or some of the 6-A, 4-A, 3-A, and 2-A games.

Size and speed are a teams friend.  Takes both to make a solid team.  The larger the classification the more of each you need.

Defense is critical and most schools lack in secondary ability.  A team needs to be able to account for 3 to 4 receivers on any given play. You better have at least 3 good defensive backs and a couple stand out linebackers that can cover the short out pass. Then you also need good containment from your ends.

High school football has changed and to win a team has to use and defend the entire field.  I have seen several teams shut down on the first two downs only to make a big play on 3rd or 4th down.  The opponent just did not have the players to stop them.  The game seems all about getting the ball into space.

A team needs to be able to score close to 40 points. An athletic dual treat QB is more than most teams can deal with.
In the 3-A game I saw a running back and QB both go for over 200 yards each.

So what are some of the keys you see needed to get it done?

STUNNA

play  for Warren or Nashville recently...lol

polksalet

Everyone has fast kids. If you don't have solid lines you're done for.

nastynice

^I agree 100% with this. Got to have solid line play with experience. Good example is Booneville 2013. Massive line with experience and a backfield full of juniors. 2014, same backfield (-QB) but a new inexperienced young line. No where near same results as year before. Not the only reason we were a lot worse but that's where it started.

Lacerta agilis

December 13, 2016, 07:14:43 am #4 Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 07:20:14 am by Lacerta agilis
I agree with Polksalet and Nastynice. If you can't compete in the trenches, you can't compete. Experience on the O line is also a bigger factor than other positions, IMO.

STUNNA

Warren returns all but one next year!

bigchief72455

Same here. A solid O line that does not mind getting physical and understands their blocking assignments. On the other side a fast physical D line that has ends that can contain and interior line that can penetrate and create chaos in the backfield. It all boils down to coaching though. You can have a mass of talent and the entire unit be undisciplined. Then you have a very talented losing team. Players have to be mentally tough as well.

Lacerta agilis

Quote from: STUNNA on December 13, 2016, 07:47:39 am
Warren returns all but one next year!
If Warren is returning all but one in the OL, that will take a lot of the sting out of losing a very good QB/RB combo to graduation.

AirWarren

Quote from: Lacerta agilis on December 13, 2016, 09:18:50 am
If Warren is returning all but one in the OL, that will take a lot of the sting out of losing a very good QB/RB combo to graduation.

We are excited about the next RB too. He ran a lil on ole Hamburg.

STUNNA

Id imagine our stud sophomore mcknight will get some reps in the backfield also

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: STUNNA on December 13, 2016, 10:25:49 am
Id imagine our stud sophomore mcknight will get some reps in the backfield also
our? I thought you were in Missouri?

Romeo

Winning a state title takes more than just one thing. Its a combination of factors, but I believe the most important part of a program, or any organization, is the CEO or head coach. The head coach will pretty much dictate the overall success of the program. Watching Coach Hembree the last seventeen years have gained me somewhat of an understanding how to build a successful organization. I believe there are three main things a head coach has to do in order to build a winning program: 1. Get players to buy into your vision and understand expectations. 2. Hold everyone in the program to the same standard. 3. Never stop learning as a head coach.

The interesting thing about Alabama is that you will never hear anyone in that program talk about goals or winning a national championship. All you'll hear about is continuing the process, which Nick Saban says is his belief that the willingness to prepare in a daily basis is the key to success. That made a lot more sense when I watched a Fall preview on Alabama where players were talking about the process, then mentioning Saban on the plane talking to recruits on the phone just hours after winning the national championship last year. That's a major reason why Alabama wins every year.

I think the best high school coaches hold everyone in the program to the same standard. They have a full grasp on the entire program all the way down to the pee-wee league. That's something Coach Hembree has been successful of doing. He has his own process at Warren and for a Lumberjack player, the standard and expectations are started at the seventh grade. Its part of the reason why Coach Hembree has been able to move freshmen up early when needed. You also coach your backups and reserve players just as hard as your starters. One of my favorite Coach Hembree moments was in the 2014 state title game. We've already initiated the mercy rule and have our backups playing in the fourth quarter. They make an error which forces Coach Hembree to call a timeout and he goes berserk. You coach your backup players just as hard because those will likely be your starters in one or two years. Sure enough, those players that got chewed out won a state championship on Friday. Its the reason why programs like Greenwood, Nashville, Pulaski Academy, Bentonville and Junction City consistently win each year.

The best coaches are also smart enough to know they don't know everything and constantly seek to find ways of making themselves a better coach and hire the best people around them. Coach Kelley of PA is probably the best example of that. Over the last seventeen years, I've watched Coach Hembree's spread offense evolve. 2012 marked a new period in the Bo Hembree era at Warren were he started running the RPO (run pass option) and its been a program changer. The last five years has been the most successful period for Warren.

OverPrivileged

Talent...specifically speed.  The teams winning and making playoff runs are fast.  Is there anyone who doesn't believe PR, Warren, PG, shiloh, robinson, nashville etc... doesn't have speed.  You need a couple of 4.5 something guys, and a bunch of 4.6 something guys.  A 4.4 doesn't hurt.  CHeck who is winning the 100 meters in their conference and they are probably also winning football games.  Size is nice, but I will take speed as a game changer any day of the week.

Gray lizard

Good post Romeo
That is what I am looking for.  We all know there are a lot of talented schools out there.  Some of them never seem to develop.  I also see some of the schools with very little true talent be successful year after year. Coaching seems to be the corner stone.

Lacerta agilis

Quote from: vegasbobcat on December 13, 2016, 02:12:13 pm
Talent...specifically speed.  The teams winning and making playoff runs are fast.  Is there anyone who doesn't believe PR, Warren, PG, shiloh, robinson, nashville etc... doesn't have speed.  You need a couple of 4.5 something guys, and a bunch of 4.6 something guys.  A 4.4 doesn't hurt.  CHeck who is winning the 100 meters in their conference and they are probably also winning football games.  Size is nice, but I will take speed as a game changer any day of the week.
I've gotta respectfully disagree. I would bet money on Hamburg athletes in a 100 yard dash vs. Warren year in and year out, but I would put my money on Warren on the football field. Speed is a nice luxury, but it isn't the key ingredient. Physical play and being fundamentally sound stand out if you look at the last five 4-A champs. (Except maybe Nashville, they were really fast)

$aintMaximu$

Quote from: Lacerta agilis on December 13, 2016, 02:42:50 pm
I've gotta respectfully disagree. I would bet money on Hamburg athletes in a 100 yard dash vs. Warren year in and year out, but I would put my money on Warren on the football field. Speed is a nice luxury, but it isn't the key ingredient. Physical play and being fundamentally sound stand out if you look at the last five 4-A champs. (Except maybe Nashville, they were really fast)

Fundamentals are huge... I think you saw that with Shiloh in the playoffs... Is most cases the other team was larger and probably had more speed... Shiloh had the fundamentals and executed well...

AirWarren

Quote from: Lacerta agilis on December 13, 2016, 02:42:50 pm
I've gotta respectfully disagree. I would bet money on Hamburg athletes in a 100 yard dash vs. Warren year in and year out, but I would put my money on Warren on the football field. Speed is a nice luxury, but it isn't the key ingredient. Physical play and being fundamentally sound stand out if you look at the last five 4-A champs. (Except maybe Nashville, they were really fast)

I agree about Hamburg.

And I'll take a bo Hembree coached Warren team over a big fast Hamburg team any day.

SUGARTOWN

Of course you have to have good players, but coaching is still the most important thing. Believe me, I've seen it first hand here in Stuttgart the last few years, actually the last 40 years. We've been blessed with some good ones in my lifetime. Burke, Bolding and Elmore...all three have multiple championships.

Not much difference talent wise between the '14, '15 and '16 Ricebird teams. But performance on the field and won-loss record was vastly improved this year. Coach Price was absolutely the best hire we could've made at Stuttgart IMO.

scrapman

So good physical lines and fast players are what win games.  Maybe a little coaching in there sprinkled around (although probably overy rated, ex: Patton (state championship to 0-10).  Dont think he became a bad coach overnight. Dang, enlightening post.

Lumberjackfan1978

Good players talent help but you have to have a good coach.Just ask Russellville what it takes.

polksalet

talent means way, way more than coaching.

PA Dad

Quote from: Romeo on December 13, 2016, 01:57:18 pm
Winning a state title takes more than just one thing. Its a combination of factors, but I believe the most important part of a program, or any organization, is the CEO or head coach. The head coach will pretty much dictate the overall success of the program. Watching Coach Hembree the last seventeen years have gained me somewhat of an understanding how to build a successful organization. I believe there are three main things a head coach has to do in order to build a winning program: 1. Get players to buy into your vision and understand expectations. 2. Hold everyone in the program to the same standard. 3. Never stop learning as a head coach.

The interesting thing about Alabama is that you will never hear anyone in that program talk about goals or winning a national championship. All you'll hear about is continuing the process, which Nick Saban says is his belief that the willingness to prepare in a daily basis is the key to success. That made a lot more sense when I watched a Fall preview on Alabama where players were talking about the process, then mentioning Saban on the plane talking to recruits on the phone just hours after winning the national championship last year. That's a major reason why Alabama wins every year.

I think the best high school coaches hold everyone in the program to the same standard. They have a full grasp on the entire program all the way down to the pee-wee league. That's something Coach Hembree has been successful of doing. He has his own process at Warren and for a Lumberjack player, the standard and expectations are started at the seventh grade. Its part of the reason why Coach Hembree has been able to move freshmen up early when needed. You also coach your backups and reserve players just as hard as your starters. One of my favorite Coach Hembree moments was in the 2014 state title game. We've already initiated the mercy rule and have our backups playing in the fourth quarter. They make an error which forces Coach Hembree to call a timeout and he goes berserk. You coach your backup players just as hard because those will likely be your starters in one or two years. Sure enough, those players that got chewed out won a state championship on Friday. Its the reason why programs like Greenwood, Nashville, Pulaski Academy, Bentonville and Junction City consistently win each year.

The best coaches are also smart enough to know they don't know everything and constantly seek to find ways of making themselves a better coach and hire the best people around them. Coach Kelley of PA is probably the best example of that. Over the last seventeen years, I've watched Coach Hembree's spread offense evolve. 2012 marked a new period in the Bo Hembree era at Warren were he started running the RPO (run pass option) and its been a program changer. The last five years has been the most successful period for Warren.

We see eye to eye.  Talent without good coaching rarely succeeds.  But a good coach can develop average talent into winners.  Bo is one of the best at doing that.

And I don't say that to denigrate Warren's talent.  Their D-1 players prove their talent.  But, how many D-1 players would they have without Bo to develop them?

Lumberjackfan1978

Quote from: PA Dad on December 13, 2016, 10:53:48 pm
We see eye to eye.  Talent without good coaching rarely succeeds.  But a good coach can develop average talent into winners.  Bo is one of the best at doing that.

And I don't say that to denigrate Warren's talent.  Their D-1 players prove their talent.  But, how many D-1 players would they have without Bo to develop them?
agree a good coach can turn a dead program around.lots of times there is talent there but it has to be developed and brought out before it can be used properly a good coach knows how to bring it out and use it.

KASH dba The Lumberjack

The way to win state is to get key players hurt every Friday night, say "Oh Crap" and "Don't know how we will get through this next week with this player gone". Make any and all adjustments it takes win another game. Repeat for 15 weeks, while not looking at going 15 and 0, just keep looking ahead to win one game at a time. This process worked for us this year.

Romeo

Quote from: polksalet on December 13, 2016, 10:27:22 pm
talent means way, way more than coaching.

Talent without discipline is like an octopus on roller skates.

scrapman

Quote from: Lumberjackfan1978 on December 13, 2016, 09:57:18 pm
Good players talent help but you have to have a good coach.Just ask Russellville what it takes.
Dawson is one of the best in the state. Did a great job at Russellville. A transfer QB doesn't hurt either ;D

Nomad1324

The game hasn't changed a ton, if you dominate the line of scrimmage consistently against your level of competition (classification-wide) you're going to have a shot to wind up in LR.

bigchief72455

You also have to have coach-able athletes.

Lumberjackfan1978

Quote from: scrapman on December 14, 2016, 07:10:18 am
Dawson is one of the best in the state. Did a great job at Russellville. A transfer QB doesn't hurt either ;D
+1

AirWarren


KASH dba The Lumberjack

December 15, 2016, 11:06:46 am #30 Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 12:19:11 pm by KASH dba The Lumberjack
Saline River Chronicles is a freaking disgrace when it comes to covering the Jacks. They have every stat about the offense down to how many Gatorade cups they used to stay hydrated and how many blades of grass they ran on, but only one line about the defense. Keep up the great job of half way doing things SRC!!!

STUNNA

absolutely crazy that Burks wasnt all state with those numbers..lol

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: STUNNA on December 15, 2016, 11:56:09 am
absolutely crazy that Burks wasnt all state with those numbers..lol
sophmore

nastynice

If all these ideas fail, then try $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!


RazorHog13

Quote from: AirWarren on December 15, 2016, 09:38:38 am
Here is a good way to win a state title. Here is a link to Warren's final stats.


http://salineriversports.blogspot.com/2016/12/what-season-for-lumberjacks.html?m=1

Yes, agree completely!  Thanks for the link!

AirWarren

Quote from: RazorHog13 on December 15, 2016, 02:43:00 pm
Yes, agree completely!  Thanks for the link!

Welcome back josh, ha.

Stay with us a while this time. 

RazorHog13

Quote from: AirWarren on December 15, 2016, 03:11:46 pm
Welcome back josh, ha.

Stay with us a while this time.

Hey dude!  Follow me on Twitter because I am joining football next year!  I finally got pressured into it ;)!

My current height weight is
5 Foot 9 Inches and 145 Pounds.
Ran Cross Country and Play Baseball...

Not expecting to start, but I am expecting to try as hard as I can!

$aintMaximu$

Quote from: RazorHog13 on December 15, 2016, 03:13:58 pm
Hey dude!  Follow me on Twitter because I am joining football next year!  I finally got pressured into it ;)!

My current height weight is
5 Foot 9 Inches and 145 Pounds.
Ran Cross Country and Play Baseball...

Not expecting to start, but I am expecting to try as hard as I can!

You can always come visit us in the gym to learn how to pack some pounds on... Have fun with football man!!!

RazorHog13

Quote from: $aintMaximu$ on December 15, 2016, 03:23:55 pm
You can always come visit us in the gym to learn how to pack some pounds on... Have fun with football man!!!

Yeah!  I have actually done a cross fit training program for quite some time now since August!  I went from a cross country weight at 115 to the 145 I am at now.  I am going to keep doing that, but I am going to start doing extra stuff at the gym as well and going to get into the offseason workouts with the team!  It will help tremendously. 

One thing I do worry about is development of certain skills.  A lot of guys are already developed and know how to do certain moves and stuff, so I am going to have to put in a lot of effort in order to make some contribution.  Not expecting to start, nor joining to do that, but I am going to work very hard and hopefully develop as both a athlete and a person!

$aintMaximu$

Quote from: RazorHog13 on December 15, 2016, 03:26:52 pm
Yeah!  I have actually done a cross fit training program for quite some time now since August!  I went from a cross country weight at 115 to the 145 I am at now.  I am going to keep doing that, but I am going to start doing extra stuff at the gym as well and going to get into the offseason workouts with the team!  It will help tremendously. 

One thing I do worry about is development of certain skills.  A lot of guys are already developed and know how to do certain moves and stuff, so I am going to have to put in a lot of effort in order to make some contribution.  Not expecting to start, nor joining to do that, but I am going to work very hard and hopefully develop as both a athlete and a person!


My senior year we have several come out for their first time to just be a part of the team...  You will have fun and find ways to contribute.  Just stick with it and practice hard.  I'm personally not a big crossfit fan but sounds like it has worked for you!

RazorHog13

Quote from: $aintMaximu$ on December 15, 2016, 03:30:19 pm

My senior year we have several come out for their first time to just be a part of the team...  You will have fun and find ways to contribute.  Just stick with it and practice hard.  I'm personally not a big crossfit fan but sounds like it has worked for you!

Yes for sure!  The good thing about this is that by running cross country or running by myself for half marathons and the such, I have developed my mind very well when it comes to pushing or trying my best.  I have to bring that with me to football or it will be tough for me, but I know I can do it.  Hopefully I don't hurt my leg the first time I get hit LOL!

AirWarren

Quote from: $aintMaximu$ on December 15, 2016, 03:23:55 pm
You can always come visit us in the gym to learn how to pack some pounds on... Have fun with football man!!!

Are you going to dress like a 5th grader?

$aintMaximu$

Quote from: AirWarren on December 15, 2016, 03:44:30 pm
Are you going to dress like a 5th grader?

I have actually moved up to 6th grade...  I'm growing up....


$aintMaximu$

Quote from: RazorHog13 on December 15, 2016, 03:46:34 pm


Too mature for me...  My wardrobe consist of tank tops or when it gets cold t-shirts that meet this criteria -

1. One size small
2. Superhero (preferably Hulk)
3. A back up would be -Star Wars, He-Man, GI Joe, Transformers

Dressing up is Nike and Under Armor.  Also bonus point if shoes match tank top (see profile pic in my Air Force Ones)

RazorHog13

Quote from: $aintMaximu$ on December 15, 2016, 03:51:35 pm
Too mature for me...  My wardrobe consist of tank tops or when it gets cold t-shirts that meet this criteria -

1. One size small
2. Superhero (preferably Hulk)
3. A back up would be -Star Wars, He-Man, GI Joe, Transformers

Dressing up is Nike and Under Armor.  Also bonus point if shoes match tank top (see profile pic in my Air Force Ones)


$aintMaximu$


AirWarren

Quote from: $aintMaximu$ on December 15, 2016, 03:45:32 pm
I have actually moved up to 6th grade...  I'm growing up....

The curse of Walt Williams.


Made

2a.....beat the team with the best athlete in 2a...congrats Mt. Ida, Carlisle couldn't do it when Strong had Dixon
3a....beat Charleston, RC, and or HA....congrats prescott
4a....beat Warren 6 out of the last 7 years the winner is either Warren, or whoever put warren out of the play-offs
5a....beat PA 6 out of last 7 titles were PA or whoever put PA out of the play-offs.
6a...beat Greenwood
7a...beat Fayetteville

That's my take on what it takes to win a state championship....probably get ripped for my thoughts. ;)

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