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You're Up by 3, other team has the ball with 5 sec left. Strategy?

Started by Quite Frankly, December 24, 2007, 04:37:05 pm

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Quite Frankly

You're in the double bonus and they have the ball with the length of the court to go and you're in a timeout.

How many of you foul before the three is attempted?

For me, I apply strong pressure on the ball and foul going for the ball on the first pass after the inbounds pass.  If there is none, I foul the original guy that caught the inbounds just as he crosses half court.

For the sake of my example, I say there was not a risk of an "in the act" shot.

Other views?

superd2312



savenutt

 Never foul in that situation. Saw a team attempt that strategy. Guy hit 1st free throw and missed the 2nd one. They get offensive rebound score and make old fashion 3 pointer to win.

gwoodbballplaya12

ive also seen a guy get fouled on a 3 pointer and make a free throw to win.....stanford like 3 or 4 years ago.

Quite Frankly

There are always exceptions and like everything it comes down to execution.

But, there are a lot more games lost in OT after a made three at the regulation buzzer than by using this strategy.

I will say this is not from some "Book of facts", just what i've witnessed with my own eyes so many many times.

30kfeet

Assumptions - two HS teams with average skills.

No screen on inbounder (I am assuming inbounder cannot run the baseline) until ball in play, force inbounds to deep corner double-team trap. (Clock starts).  heavy fcp defense without going for the steal (too easy to foul),  every change of direction takes time and minimizes shot quality. Make them shoot over pressure from deep 3-point.  If ball goes inside arc, drop off and cover to prevent outside pass to shooters.

Short answer, do not foul intentionally with only 5 seconds.  If they do tie you have no chance at counter. 

deeznutz1963

Foul em early and take your chances. Look, you're dealing w/ 16-18 yr old kids. Odds are in your favor. If they hit both FT's, you have the ball w/ just a few secs. to go.  Just my thought.

Quite Frankly

Quote from: 30kfeet on December 25, 2007, 11:07:27 am
Assumptions - two HS teams with average skills.

No screen on inbounder (I am assuming inbounder cannot run the baseline) until ball in play, force inbounds to deep corner double-team trap. (Clock starts).  heavy fcp defense without going for the steal (too easy to foul),  every change of direction takes time and minimizes shot quality. Make them shoot over pressure from deep 3-point.  If ball goes inside arc, drop off and cover to prevent outside pass to shooters.

Short answer, do not foul intentionally with only 5 seconds.  If they do tie you have no chance at counter. 

The whole point is to minimize your future risk.  As with all things it comes down to execution.  But the odds of hitting a 3 is a lot better than losing in regulation due to freak plays while trying to foul.  The whole point is the time issue.  When you have a three point lead the whole intent is not worrying about scoring again.  Leaving time to respond is not applicable.

You can draw up all the defenses and time scenarios that you want, but it all comes down to this;

let them have a "well defended" three to tie(which invites the possibility of a 4 point play or three free throws) or prevent the attempt all together.

30kfeet

Quote from: Quite Frankly on December 25, 2007, 02:43:57 pm
Quote from: 30kfeet on December 25, 2007, 11:07:27 am
Assumptions - two HS teams with average skills.

No screen on inbounder (I am assuming inbounder cannot run the baseline) until ball in play, force inbounds to deep corner double-team trap. (Clock starts).  heavy fcp defense without going for the steal (too easy to foul),  every change of direction takes time and minimizes shot quality. Make them shoot over pressure from deep 3-point.  If ball goes inside arc, drop off and cover to prevent outside pass to shooters.

Short answer, do not foul intentionally with only 5 seconds.  If they do tie you have no chance at counter. 

The whole point is to minimize your future risk.  As with all things it comes down to execution.  But the odds of hitting a 3 is a lot better than losing in regulation due to freak plays while trying to foul.  The whole point is the time issue.  When you have a three point lead the whole intent is not worrying about scoring again.  Leaving time to respond is not applicable.

You can draw up all the defenses and time scenarios that you want, but it all comes down to this;

let them have a "well defended" three to tie(which invites the possibility of a 4 point play or three free throws) or prevent the attempt all together.

As you said, it all comes down to execution.  A well executed press could easily melt 5 seconds off the clock.  I'll take my chances of a hail mary from half court against a free throw scenario to tie.

motivate

Give ball handler solid pressure up the floor (2-3sec gone)and have the rest of the team stand on the three line make them shoot as deep as possible. Do not foul if they get past you for a lay-up. If they do not have a time-out left after the lay up then hold the ball out of bounds.
Game over.

neafbfan

Quote from: Quite Frankly on December 24, 2007, 04:37:05 pm
You're in the double bonus and they have the ball with the length of the court to go and you're in a timeout.

How many of you foul before the three is attempted?

For me, I apply strong pressure on the ball and foul going for the ball on the first pass after the inbounds pass.  If there is none, I foul the original guy that caught the inbounds just as he crosses half court.

For the sake of my example, I say there was not a risk of an "in the act" shot.

Other views?

Good question. Practicing these situations makes you and your players better prepared for the moment. The 16-18 yrs olds or 20 something college players will be better prepared because you've practiced the situation. Like preparing for the driving portion or final bule book exam. Takes practice. Worked for me at least. Anyway.

Never foul. Token pressure for the first few 5 seconds. Do not foul in the back court or on the shot. Totally guard the arc in case they start a weave or other motion type play. Let them go if inside the arc.Let them rebound and score. More time off the clock and you probably don't have to inbound the ball and still win the game.

CoachJ

There are always different factors that would influence my decision.  If the team is not a very good shooting team then I would not foul.  I would take my chances playing full court man.  Like  30kfeet said, every change of direction or pass takes time off of the clock.  I agree with everyone that is all comes down to execution.  If I'm playing a team that has been wearing it out from outside then of course I would foul.  I would be more than confident in our team's defensive rebounding, knowing that we work on this every single day in practice.  Every situation has factors that influence the thinking in that situation.  I believe that if you are "set in your ways" in that situation you may cost your team a victory.

007

what about a tie game with 50 seconds left and the team with the ball has just nailed two threes in a row from the same spot on the floor to tie the game


OC

I don't foul in this situation.  Up 3 with five seconds.  They will not get a good shot, they might hit it but that is just the way it goes sometimes.  If you foul they hit the first shot, then miss and with the rules the way they are today, very good chance of an offensive rebound. 


whosyourdaddy

If the ball isin the backcourt,  I let it play out and don't foul.  Just apply fullcourt pressure and make them take along low percentage shot at buzzer.
If ball is in front court, I lwt them get ball in bounds  then foul., They will be at line with less than 3 seconds left and having to hit 1st, intentionally miss and score on tip in to tie, unlikely everything works out. If it does, you go to over time. If not take the W and go home.

Ty

Man to Man press, with two key factors:
1. Play behind your man on inbound.
2. Inbounder's defender floating at half court.

Missco


rheddhoss

The same team has beaten me three times in two years with a hail mary shot at the end.  I say Foul!

Arkfballfan81

You force them to travel 90 feet to get to the rim and do not let them throw it deep.  I would foul no doubt if it were a foul to give and I'd even foul if there were 1-1 to give them.  Depending on the size of my players and the size of the team facing, I may not foul if it'd put them in the double bonus.  Keep the dribbler driving side to side instead of a verticle straight line to the goal. 
I was on an intramural team one time where we were up 2 and one of our guys fouled with 3 seconds left in the game giving them 1-1 free throws.  I was FURIOUS!  You can't do that, if they hit the big contested 3 then they deserve to win.  Don't give them a free chance to tie the game and go into overtime.  I blocked my guy out and my cousin blocked his guy out under the goal, but the ball came right back to the shooter who didn't get blocked out.  He tipped the ball back behind him and a 3 point shooter of theirs caught it and nailed it at the buzzer.  I was so sick I just walked off....

philgoodallday

You play a press on the inbound and force a tough pass in.  Sounds strange, but a lot of teams will force a bad pass, because they are thinking about the shot to come. 

If they get it in, then you force them to make a few dribbles before fouling.

rookie_4

Doesn't Calipari WISH he would have fouled there at the end.  I think that was his plan, but said the ref didn't call it.  I'm a fan of the foul because you see WAY TOO OFTEN the game tying 3 go down.

Quite Frankly


Basketball15

Quote from: QF© on December 24, 2007, 04:37:05 pm
You're in the double bonus and they have the ball with the length of the court to go and you're in a timeout.

How many of you foul before the three is attempted?

For me, I apply strong pressure on the ball and foul going for the ball on the first pass after the inbounds pass.  If there is none, I foul the original guy that caught the inbounds just as he crosses half court.

For the sake of my example, I say there was not a risk of an "in the act" shot.

Other views?

bad idea just apply ball pressure and make sure not to even breathe on the three point shooter, i have witnessed a team up  3 in this same situation and fouled on the first pass, the player heaved a shot toward the basket and was awarded 3 free throws and sunk all 3 to send it to overtime and they came back and won..

Quite Frankly

Quote from: Basketball15 on August 27, 2008, 05:09:34 pm
Quote from: QF© on December 24, 2007, 04:37:05 pm
You're in the double bonus and they have the ball with the length of the court to go and you're in a timeout.

How many of you foul before the three is attempted?

For me, I apply strong pressure on the ball and foul going for the ball on the first pass after the inbounds pass.  If there is none, I foul the original guy that caught the inbounds just as he crosses half court.

For the sake of my example, I say there was not a risk of an "in the act" shot.

Other views?

bad idea just apply ball pressure and make sure not to even breathe on the three point shooter, i have witnessed a team up  3 in this same situation and fouled on the first pass, the player heaved a shot toward the basket and was awarded 3 free throws and sunk all 3 to send it to overtime and they came back and won..

We've all seen different scenarios, for and against the argument.  What it comes down to is the frequency of what occurs.

jrbballguy

I agree with an earlier post that said that if you have it set in your mind what you would do, you are probably going to cost your team the game. 

There are so many factors that should influence your decision....
are they in the bonus, if not, how many fouls until they are?  Are they a good shooting team?  How good are you on defense?  How many of your guys are in foul trouble?  how much time on the clock?  How many time outs does each team have? 
I personally would not let them have free throws if it can be avoided because of all of the wacky stuff that can happen at the free throw line and with all of the new rules that really make it more even for the offense to get the rebound.  If a shooter gets a shot off, you have to control the rebound and not let them have second shots, get the ball into your best shooters hands if they decide to foul

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