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Springdale Boys team is dropping like flies

Started by bystander, June 09, 2014, 09:50:18 pm

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bystander

The assistant coach decides to stop coaching and just train privately, now players are leaving. With the new rule allowing players to move schools without sitting out, it's a recruiting "free for all".

1. Drake Wymer is transferring to Fayetteville.
2. Tyreke Eckwood is now going to Har-Ber.
3. The post from Bentonville was going to Springdale, and now will go to Har-Ber.
4. It won't be shocking if Tutt follows Eckwood again, as he asked him to come to SHS in the first place.

How times change in the "what have you done for me lately" world of high school sports in Northwest Arkansas. It's sad to see how there is no school loyalty up there any more.

Nip/Tusk

Who's the coach there now?  And why are all the guys leaving?

ricepig

Sounds like Scottie is doing a good job recruiting at Har-Ber.

NWA Hawg

What rule was passed that let's you transfer without sitting out?

Cabotred

June 10, 2014, 07:43:22 am #4 Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 07:45:00 am by Cabotred
Is Wymer moving because of football or basketball. I know last year he was in competition with another sophmore for quarterback and the other guy got starting position.

Will he play both a fayetville?

I parents make a legit move you don't have to sit out.

NWA Hawg

Yeah they have to make a legit move. The rule actually made it harder for you to change schools and be eligible

mack

Quote from: fann07 on June 10, 2014, 09:55:06 am
Yeah they have to make a legit move. The rule actually made it harder for you to change schools and be eligible


Many schools are requesting copies of utility bills with the parent's names on them to verify residence/eligibility.  That's a good thing.

ricepig

Quote from: mack on June 10, 2014, 10:39:29 am
Quote from: fann07 on June 10, 2014, 09:55:06 am
Yeah they have to make a legit move. The rule actually made it harder for you to change schools and be eligible


Many schools are requesting copies of utility bills with the parent's names on them to verify residence/eligibility.  That's a good thing.

Unless you want a surprise later in the season, you had better make sure it's more than a utility bill. I know from talking with our AD, he's made sure that kid's have left the house and driven to school, haha.

Brian G

Lots of shuffling in NWA and I think it's going to get worse before it gets better.  There are some others not listed here.

It's not as easy as it seems.  I know of several that tried to do it in recent years but didn't see it pan out because they didn't or couldn't prove a legitimate move. IOW, the player sat a year.

They are not all sinister and some are parent driven more than anything else.  This thread is about basketball but you could just as easy make one about football.

I don't really like it but sadly it's a sidebar to the huge growth in NWA.  For years you would see many migrate to a nearby smaller school.  Now there are options galore for players/parents to self choose schools/coaches my simply moving.  Parents can keep the same job they had and move 15 miles or less to their choice.

It's on the coaches and schools to just let it happen on its own.

The culprits are mostly parents.

Brian G

Another angle here is the transfers within the same town.  This has not been an issue in NWA until recent years as we had just one HS to a town.  But of course Springdale, Rogers and soon Bentonville will have multiple HS's. That's not going to happen at FHS and should be pointed out that most of these split high school each maintain more kids post split than FHS.

But back to it as the internal flips will be the ones that generate the most bad feelings.  These AD's within the same town have their hands full.  Fort Smith had a very strict rule to ease their burden but that has relaxed a bit.  Springdale's two high schools allow for transferring for academic reasons and not athletic.  Well.........   The two schools do not have identical curriculums.  If a type of course is offered at one and not the other then you can apply to flip for that academic reason.  There have been kids go both directions on that pretense.

Speaking on a broad scale, I don't know that there is much you can do about it(inside the district transfers).  The only thing you can do within a district is hope the coaches don't actively recruit players and hold them accountable if they actually recruit.

Brian G

To add a bit more.  This goes on in girls as well.  In fact, several girls have transferred to Springdale.  Most notably 6'2" twin Soph's for next season.

You can see some parents handpick junior high programs and then swap them to another district for high school.  The best player on SDale girls last year was at a Fayetteville JH the year before.

mack

Quote from: B.G. on June 10, 2014, 11:44:36 am
Another angle here is the transfers within the same town.  This has not been an issue in NWA until recent years as we had just one HS to a town.  But of course Springdale, Rogers and soon Bentonville will have multiple HS's. That's not going to happen at FHS and should be pointed out that most of these split high school each maintain more kids post split than FHS.

But back to it as the internal flips will be the ones that generate the most bad feelings.  These AD's within the same town have their hands full.  Fort Smith had a very strict rule to ease their burden but that has relaxed a bit.  Springdale's two high schools allow for transferring for academic reasons and not athletic.  Well.........   The two schools do not have identical curriculums.  If a type of course is offered at one and not the other then you can apply to flip for that academic reason.  There have been kids go both directions on that pretense.

Speaking on a broad scale, I don't know that there is much you can do about it(inside the district transfers).  The only thing you can do within a district is hope the coaches don't actively recruit players and hold them accountable if they actually recruit.


I really don't think there is much recruiting by coaches.  I think it is mainly the parent strategy as you alluded to, along with the kids recruiting each other.  They play summer ball together, and often want to keep playing together in school.

sevenof400

Leaving everything else aside in the OP, why would you expect this:

Quote from: bystander on June 09, 2014, 09:50:18 pm
How times change in the "what have you done for me lately" world of high school sports in Northwest Arkansas. It's sad to see how there is no school loyalty up there any more.

What does a school do to deserve 'loyalty' anyway? 

(I ask this seriously...)

Brian G

Quote from: mack on June 10, 2014, 02:18:56 pm
Quote from: B.G. on June 10, 2014, 11:44:36 am
Another angle here is the transfers within the same town.  This has not been an issue in NWA until recent years as we had just one HS to a town.  But of course Springdale, Rogers and soon Bentonville will have multiple HS's. That's not going to happen at FHS and should be pointed out that most of these split high school each maintain more kids post split than FHS.

But back to it as the internal flips will be the ones that generate the most bad feelings.  These AD's within the same town have their hands full.  Fort Smith had a very strict rule to ease their burden but that has relaxed a bit.  Springdale's two high schools allow for transferring for academic reasons and not athletic.  Well.........   The two schools do not have identical curriculums.  If a type of course is offered at one and not the other then you can apply to flip for that academic reason.  There have been kids go both directions on that pretense.

Speaking on a broad scale, I don't know that there is much you can do about it(inside the district transfers).  The only thing you can do within a district is hope the coaches don't actively recruit players and hold them accountable if they actually recruit.


I really don't think there is much recruiting by coaches.  I think it is mainly the parent strategy as you alluded to, along with the kids recruiting each other.  They play summer ball together, and often want to keep playing together in school.
I wish you were 100% correct or rather correct 100% of the time.

gojackets14

June 10, 2014, 03:21:38 pm #14 Last Edit: July 13, 2014, 09:09:22 pm by gojackets14
.

Brian G

Parents want "guarantees" when they are looking to move their kids.  Any coach worth their salt will tell them there are no guarantees except a fair shot if they end up at the school.

A man I respect the most takes such an approach.  How else can you hold your head up?  If you yield to the prospective player/parent with special promises before a kid ever steps foot at your practice you lose your current players/parents/fans.  I have a lot of angst for those who do make promises and will continue to feel that way.

This is high school.

ricepig

Quote from: B.G. on June 10, 2014, 03:26:52 pm
Parents want "guarantees" when they are looking to move their kids.  Any coach worth their salt will tell them there are no guarantees except a fair shot if they end up at the school.

A man I respect the most takes such an approach.  How else can you hold your head up?  If you yield to the prospective player/parent with special promises before a kid ever steps foot at your practice you lose your current players/parents/fans.  I have a lot of angst for those who do make promises and will continue to feel that way.

This is high school.

I'd guarantee Malik that he would start.   ;D

godeep

Rice I would guarantee his parents I could get him a college scholarship.

TheMercenary

Quote from: godeep on June 11, 2014, 07:29:56 am
Rice I would guarantee his parents I could get him a college scholarship.

Really going out on a limb there!   ;D


bystander

It's just sad the state of high school athletics is so influenced by coaches who are recruiting players (through other players) through AAU teams. As a result of this occuring at the 7A schools, the other schools in the conference have no choice but to go and recruit lower-tier players from smaller schools.

It really causes coaches at these schools to not only coach the kids during the season, but they have to baby sit these players in the summer to keep from a competitive coach who may be tweeting one of the players, or trying to make a connection in one of the gyms. I can understand how a top D1 player gets asked to move schools, but these coaches will promise the world to a player and then they just sit on the bench.




Brian G


sevenof400

Quote from: bystander on June 11, 2014, 11:54:31 am
...It really causes coaches at these schools to not only coach the kids during the season, but they have to baby sit these players in the summer to keep from a competitive coach who may be tweeting one of the players, or trying to make a connection in one of the gyms.


Quote from: bystander on June 11, 2014, 11:54:31 am
... I can understand how a top D1 player gets asked to move schools, but these coaches will promise the world to a player and then they just sit on the bench.

Kinda of an interesting juxtaposition in those two points. 

Certainly the player / coach relationship in high school sports is facing a far different set of pressures than a generation ago.  At a minimum, we are moving away from the model that has the coach at the center of all things (which is positive development IMO), but we may be moving so fast toward a player centric model that the ideal point has been overshot.   

mack

Quote from: bystander on June 11, 2014, 11:54:31 am
It's just sad the state of high school athletics is so influenced by coaches who are recruiting players (through other players) through AAU teams. As a result of this occuring at the 7A schools, the other schools in the conference have no choice but to go and recruit lower-tier players from smaller schools.

It really causes coaches at these schools to not only coach the kids during the season, but they have to baby sit these players in the summer to keep from a competitive coach who may be tweeting one of the players, or trying to make a connection in one of the gyms. I can understand how a top D1 player gets asked to move schools, but these coaches will promise the world to a player and then they just sit on the bench.


If what you and BG assert is true, you need to be turning those coaches in to the AAA.  I don't care if it's NLR, Fayetteville or Possum Grape, they should be reported.  Of course, proof is required, not hearsay.

ricepig

Quote from: mack on June 11, 2014, 01:03:54 pm
Quote from: bystander on June 11, 2014, 11:54:31 am
It's just sad the state of high school athletics is so influenced by coaches who are recruiting players (through other players) through AAU teams. As a result of this occuring at the 7A schools, the other schools in the conference have no choice but to go and recruit lower-tier players from smaller schools.

It really causes coaches at these schools to not only coach the kids during the season, but they have to baby sit these players in the summer to keep from a competitive coach who may be tweeting one of the players, or trying to make a connection in one of the gyms. I can understand how a top D1 player gets asked to move schools, but these coaches will promise the world to a player and then they just sit on the bench.


If what you and BG assert is true, you need to be turning those coaches in to the AAA.  I don't care if it's NLR, Fayetteville or Possum Grape, they should be reported.  Of course, proof is required, not hearsay.

That's why they use bag men, uh middle men, like you and me.......

OlGuyWicker

Quote from: mack on June 11, 2014, 01:03:54 pm
Quote from: bystander on June 11, 2014, 11:54:31 am
It's just sad the state of high school athletics is so influenced by coaches who are recruiting players (through other players) through AAU teams. As a result of this occuring at the 7A schools, the other schools in the conference have no choice but to go and recruit lower-tier players from smaller schools.

It really causes coaches at these schools to not only coach the kids during the season, but they have to baby sit these players in the summer to keep from a competitive coach who may be tweeting one of the players, or trying to make a connection in one of the gyms. I can understand how a top D1 player gets asked to move schools, but these coaches will promise the world to a player and then they just sit on the bench.


If what you and BG assert is true, you need to be turning those coaches in to the AAA.  I don't care if it's NLR, Fayetteville or Possum Grape, they should be reported.  Of course, proof is required, not hearsay.
Texas seems to be addressing this:
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/headlines/20140606-dallas-isd-athletic-director-coaches-fired-in-recruiting-scandal.ece

Cabotred

Rice I know you said " middle men" tongue and cheek, but don't think that there are not relationships between AAU coaches and high school coaches that pay dividends for the high school.

I know one young man that was told by an AAU coach if he wanted to play for this certain AAU team and ultimately D1 he needed to move to a larger school and suggested the school. 

Brian G

Quote from: bystander on June 09, 2014, 09:50:18 pm
The assistant coach decides to stop coaching
BTW, I believe this is no longer true.  He's staying put I believe at SDale.

Brian G

Quote from: mack on June 11, 2014, 01:03:54 pm
If what you and BG assert is true, you need to be turning those coaches in to the AAA.  I don't care if it's NLR, Fayetteville or Possum Grape, they should be reported.  Of course, proof is required, not hearsay.
As with all things, it's in the ability to prove it.  When you consider that the direct testimony that would prove it would come from the ones doing it, it's a conundrum.  You know a coach or parent will never admit to anything if it's beyond the rules.

If you're smart about it, you're pretty insulated.  Personally, I have seen/heard enough to know things that I can't prove when it comes to player transfers. 

We do have to remember that is everyone's right to move.  It just needs to be legit.  Due to the fact NWA is growing, there is a bunch of shuffling as well as moves into the area for legitimate work.

The coaches that I refer to as friends are all above board.  If they were not, they wouldn't have my support.

ricepig

Quote from: Cabotred on June 11, 2014, 01:20:33 pm
Rice I know you said " middle men" tongue and cheek, but don't think that there are not relationships between AAU coaches and high school coaches that pay dividends for the high school.

I know one young man that was told by an AAU coach if he wanted to play for this certain AAU team and ultimately D1 he needed to move to a larger school and suggested the school.

Well, playing for Jonesboro is always good!

TheMercenary

June 11, 2014, 10:14:04 pm #29 Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 10:21:30 pm by TheMercenary
Quote from: ricepig on June 11, 2014, 01:08:27 pm
Quote from: mack on June 11, 2014, 01:03:54 pm
Quote from: bystander on June 11, 2014, 11:54:31 am
It's just sad the state of high school athletics is so influenced by coaches who are recruiting players (through other players) through AAU teams. As a result of this occuring at the 7A schools, the other schools in the conference have no choice but to go and recruit lower-tier players from smaller schools.

It really causes coaches at these schools to not only coach the kids during the season, but they have to baby sit these players in the summer to keep from a competitive coach who may be tweeting one of the players, or trying to make a connection in one of the gyms. I can understand how a top D1 player gets asked to move schools, but these coaches will promise the world to a player and then they just sit on the bench.


If what you and BG assert is true, you need to be turning those coaches in to the AAA.  I don't care if it's NLR, Fayetteville or Possum Grape, they should be reported.  Of course, proof is required, not hearsay.

That's why they use bag men, uh middle men, like you and me.......

This is exactly the way it works. All of them have these inside guys, whether they want to admit it or not.

Advocates might be a term coaches would like better: sounds less shady.

Can't see it changing any time soon.


Brian G

The AAA has ruled that Eckwood's move will go through if the family makes a bonafided move into the Har-Ber district.  The dad has indicated that will happen.  Currently, he lives in Fayetteville

http://www.arpreps.com/534/

Brian G

Word is that the Eckwood family has officially moved into the Har-Ber district.

WMWRECKINGCREW

This must be New in the northwest. In west Memphis it has happen for years. We lose players every year. Some is playing time but most is summer ball. Kids become friends and they want to play together.

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