I Find It Amazing

[-Painted Fan-]

I have read some of your posts where you write about the Love of God, what He has done for you, and how He has changed you, healed you, met your every need.  I read the scriptures that you post.
  Then I read another thread, and see where you post something about the "beaners", and how "WE TRUE AMERICANS" are going to boycott Cinco de Mayo, the "happy" in the Brokeback Mountain thread that has drug on for like 15 pages(DIE! THREAD DIE!), and the blacks in the New Black Panther Party, etc. and so on, ad nauseum.
   So which is it?  Do we "love our neighbor as ourselves" as commanded in Luke 10, or only if he's straight, White, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant?  And just where did you come from?  You didn't just appear in this country out of thin air.  Yes, even the Native American came here from somewhere else.
   I don't mean to preach, and I'm FAR from perfect.  I just don't understand how we can have such Love for God, and hatred for our fellow man at the same time.  I also don't mean to make enemies (hey, I need all the friends I can get- no matter what the color of skin, race, or sexual preference).
   I guess I just don't understand.
                          your friend, -Painted Fan-

[amehr36]

Your right, im guilty of alot of what you just said...

[retiredlion05]

The Black Panther Thread was not a racist thread. 

"And let he who is without sin, throw the first stone" - Jesus

[Bob Lablaw]

Yeah, there's a lot of two-faced people. I guess everybody's guilty..........however, I don't think I'm as bad as some...does that sound conceited?

[mudturtle]

"And let he who is without sin, throw the first stone" - Jesus

Actually I am not sure that he was throwing stones, just saying he couldn't understand the apparent inconsistency.

I'm not sure how warm the reception will be when a Klan member is killed in a car wreck on the way home from burning a cross in someone's yard.

[Lions84]

I don't , I  find it refreshing that people can discuss these issues;In a rather civil manner.

[Drama Mama ™]

A "BIG" clap to you Painted Fan   .......... I couldn't agree with you more.  Ya just can't have it both ways people....... Don't post your Scriptures then say "burn & beat" the  happy folks  and shoot to kill the "beaners".    A true Christian would not make such statements.......go ahead and start it with me for those that I just offended, but Painted Fan hit the nail on the head.   Personally, I NEVER get involved in any of the religious or political threads.   I may add to one of those threads, but usually I keep my views to myself on most of the issues.   My philosophy is, if you start posting your inner most feelings.....get ready for a little criticism......if ya can't take what people throw back at ya..... ya might want to keep some of that to yourself  

[amehr36]

Yeah, i am a Christian and i love God, but i am NOT God, so if i stumble and let my human side take over for a moment please forgive me  .

[Lions84]

Painted Fan being a Christian doesn't mean that we should let illegal aliens overrun our nation, Accept abuses of power, or be Polly Anna's about the reality of this fallen world.  I love everybody but if your breaking the LAW you got to PAY.

[-Painted Fan-]

Let me throw this out:  What if you found out your grandfather, who came to America during the Great Depression, was an illegal immigrant?  Does that make everyone in his bloodline who is here also illegal (meaning YOU!)?
Or this:  What if your child/sibling told you they are gay, and is coming out of the closet?
Or this:  What if your child/sibling told you they are dating/marrying someone of a different color/race/religion?
And finally:  Just what color/ethnic group do you think Jesus was when he walked the streets of Nazareth?  I can tell you he wasn't the brown haired, blue eyed man you see in the pictures.  He would look more like the man behind the counter at 7-11. (not a racial slur, but rather meaning the Simpson's Apu).


Just some food for thought.

[retiredlion05]

Let me throw this out: What if you found out your grandfather, who came to America during the Great Depression, was an illegal immigrant? Does that make everyone in his bloodline who is here also illegal (meaning YOU!)?
Or this: What if your child/sibling told you they are gay, and is coming out of the closet?
Or this: What if your child/sibling told you they are dating/marrying someone of a different color/race/religion?

No, I was born in America, like my father, mother and etc!  Legal
I would probably be a little upset and not understand why.  Would I stop loving them, no.  Do I want it forced upon me by anyone?  Heck No!
I would be more okay with that than the gay thing.  I'm not racists at all.  I'm white but I do have and love very much black family members and friends.

[Uncle Ivan]

Or this:  What if your child/sibling told you they are gay, and is coming out of the closet?

- I'd tell that kid that he isn't my child anymore, and cut ties.

Or this:  What if your child/sibling told you they are dating/marrying someone of a different color/race/religion?

- I wouldn't like it, in varying degrees on what the person they're marrying is, but I'd deal with it.

And finally:  Just what color/ethnic group do you think Jesus was when he walked the streets of Nazareth?

- Half Jewish.

Also, you haven't seen me posting any scriptures on here and going on a God trip.

[SMC]

Great post. I have wondered this for a long time. Seems like a lot of the conservative Christians in Arkansas must have stopped reading their Bible at the book of Malachi. News flash, once Jesus entered the picture, God became a loving, forgiving God. I wonder why people seem to be so comfortable calling themselves Christians while having such an abundance of hate in their lives. It's so ironic.

Ivan, you're different. From what I've seen you post I can't classify you as a hypocrite. But there are plenty of them around.

[chrismurphy19]

There's only one way to describe Ivan:

Ivan is Ivan. Plain and simple.

[SMC]

For sure. You may not agree with him. heck, I disagree with just about every single thing he says. But he is always consistent.

[Flyer 87]

God was always a loving and forgiving God.  He is also righteous and just.  God will punish sin.  The ultimate sin is the rejection of his son.  You made a good point painted fan, but not everyone who is a christian is a hypocrite and not everyone who claims to be christian really is one.

[SMC]

What I meant was if you read the Old Testament, it is a lot of laws, and those who broke them were punished harshly. Struck dead, banished, outcast in other ways. Once Jesus came he became the New Covenant. You didn't have to follow all the laws. You just have to believe in him.

[Flyer 87]

What I meant was if you read the Old Testament, it is a lot of laws, and those who broke them were punished harshly. Struck dead, banished, outcast in other ways. Once Jesus came he became the New Covenant. You didn't have to follow all the laws. You just have to believe in him.

Sort of, but if you don't live your life as a christian I believe when you stand before him on judgement day he will not know you.  The difference in the old covenant and the new one is that punishment is not immediate.  Most folks live their life and don't receive their "just reward" so to speak until after they die.

[Boss Man]

Or this:  What if your child/sibling told you they are gay, and is coming out of the closet?

-hacked off but that I wouldn't get any grandkids but would EVENTUALLY get over the matter

Or this:  What if your child/sibling told you they are dating/marrying someone of a different color/race/religion?

- I don't care because when it comes to women if they look good they look good black or white and I'm sure any straight man can vouch for that even if they don't wanna admit it.

And finally:  Just what color/ethnic group do you think Jesus was when he walked the streets of Nazareth?

- Carbalasian. Middle Eastern colored skin with semi long and nappy hair.

[Father Guido]

Or this: What if your child/sibling told you they are gay, and is coming out of the closet?

- I'd tell that kid that he isn't my child anymore, and cut ties.

Or this: What if your child/sibling told you they are dating/marrying someone of a different color/race/religion?

- I wouldn't like it, in varying degrees on what the person they're marrying is, but I'd deal with it.

And finally: Just what color/ethnic group do you think Jesus was when he walked the streets of Nazareth?

- Half Jewish.

Also, you haven't seen me posting any scriptures on here and going on a God trip.

Two things about Uncle Ivan, he is NOT hypocritical and he is not racist.  He is an equal opportunity offender.  He offends everybody, and he never changes.  He is always a jerk.     Gotta love his consistency.

[retiredlion05]

^^^Amen^^^

[rabs_fan4life]

Or this: What if your child/sibling told you they are gay, and is coming out of the closet?

- I'd tell that kid that he isn't my child anymore, and cut ties.

Or this: What if your child/sibling told you they are dating/marrying someone of a different color/race/religion?

- I wouldn't like it, in varying degrees on what the person they're marrying is, but I'd deal with it.

And finally: Just what color/ethnic group do you think Jesus was when he walked the streets of Nazareth?

- Half Jewish.

Also, you haven't seen me posting any scriptures on here and going on a God trip.

Two things about Uncle Ivan, he is NOT hypocritical and he is not racist. He is an equal opportunity offender. He offends everybody, and he never changes. He is always a jerk. Gotta love his consistency.

Yup...consistent to a fault.

[Uncle Ivan]

- Carbalasian. Middle Eastern colored skin with semi long and nappy hair.

To change the subject, he was built.  Jesus was one stout man.  I've read that man gets taller through generations, like, the average Civil War soldier was 5'5" and 120 lbs.  Most of us would be big men if we were able to go back in time then.

Anyway, think about it.  He was a carpenter.  Ever seen many scrawny carpenters?  And back then, everything involved heavy lifting because they didn't have the tools and material that we have now to make things easier.  Doing that kind of work for a living will put lots of muscle on a person.

I've always shook my head when those photos came up of Jesus being a tall, skinny feller.  He wasn't, probably more of a short, thick, well-built man.

[Father Guido]

That is so true, I've always felt the same way about those pictures of Jesus.  While he was of gentle spirit, he would have been a more rugged man, physically, with rough hands and some muscles.

[Flyer 87]

The blue eyes really bug me.  I would bet a lot of money that he does not have blue eyes.

[CatsRule]

I don't really care what Jesus looked like, but just for the sake of argument....

Yes, a carpenter would logically have muscles and a bigger build.  Yes, men were more than likely smaller way back when, then they are now.  But what is logical about Jesus?  He came to earth and lived a perfect sinless life in human flesh.  That kind of defies logic.  I maintain that he stood at a normal or slightly above normal height.  Today we see him as perhaps being tall, because comparative to the men of his day, he was tall.   I also think he was thin, though not scrawny.  He had the look of a leader, or the look that I associate with a leader. 

Again, I don't think it really matters, I just felt like playing advocate.

[WCD]

I don't really care what Jesus looked like, but just for the sake of argument....

Yes, a carpenter would logically have muscles and a bigger build. Yes, men were more than likely smaller way back when, then they are now. But what is logical about Jesus? He came to earth and lived a perfect sinless life in human flesh. That kind of defies logic. I maintain that he stood at a normal or slightly above normal height. Today we see him as perhaps being tall, because comparative to the men of his day, he was tall. I also think he was thin, though not scrawny. He had the look of a leader, or the look that I associate with a leader.

Again, I don't think it really matters, I just felt like playing advocate.

We really just assume when we say he was tall and slender or short and stout, or well built. Or that he looked like a leader. That would be far from the truth. In Isaiah 53: we read that he was fairly plain or perhaps ugly (in world standards).

2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

If you look at the Jewish history they were looking for a king to free them from Roman bondage. Someone similar to King Saul, tall and handsome. Instead here comes this small stature, homely person born to a young girl and a step-son of a carpenter from Nazareth. What color was his skin? I would say it was of olive color similar to those of middle eastern (Jewish)  descent. IMO people have painted Jesus to resemble what they thought or wanted him to look like.......... themselves. I have seen pictures of white and black Jesus's.

It won't matter what color Jesus's skin will be because when we behold Him all we will see is love.

I still would like to accomplish some things before I die but I am closer now to wanting to go home to be with God than when I was 21. I can understand Paul the Apostle when he says he is torn between staying here on earth a while longer or leaving his mortal body to go home to Jesus.

The important thing is to be ready when he calls. Love the song "Gotta Be Ready When He Calls My Name.

Grace and peace to this board.

Wildcat_Dad

[Blue Collar]

Your right, im guilty of alot of what you just said...

I think we all fall in that category. Its human nature and fall of man that's all.

[CatsRule]

I don't really care what Jesus looked like, but just for the sake of argument....

Yes, a carpenter would logically have muscles and a bigger build. Yes, men were more than likely smaller way back when, then they are now. But what is logical about Jesus? He came to earth and lived a perfect sinless life in human flesh. That kind of defies logic. I maintain that he stood at a normal or slightly above normal height. Today we see him as perhaps being tall, because comparative to the men of his day, he was tall. I also think he was thin, though not scrawny. He had the look of a leader, or the look that I associate with a leader.

Again, I don't think it really matters, I just felt like playing advocate.

We really just assume when we say he was tall and slender or short and stout, or well built. Or that he looked like a leader. That would be far from the truth. In Isaiah 53: we read that he was fairly plain or perhaps ugly (in world standards).

2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

If you look at the Jewish history they were looking for a king to free them from Roman bondage. Someone similar to King Saul, tall and handsome. Instead here comes this small stature, homely person born to a young girl and a step-son of a carpenter from Nazareth. What color was his skin? I would say it was of olive color similar to those of middle eastern (Jewish)  descent. IMO people have painted Jesus to resemble what they thought or wanted him to look like.......... themselves. I have seen pictures of white and black Jesus's.

It won't matter what color Jesus's skin will be because when we behold Him all we will see is love.

I still would like to accomplish some things before I die but I am closer now to wanting to go home to be with God than when I was 21. I can understand Paul the Apostle when he says he is torn between staying here on earth a while longer or leaving his mortal body to go home to Jesus.

The important thing is to be ready when he calls. Love the song "Gotta Be Ready When He Calls My Name.

Grace and peace to this board.

Wildcat_Dad

It's funny (or maybe not) that when I was younger I was asked to memorize Isaiah 53:6, but even in doing so, I never paid much attention to the ones around it.  So much for playing advocate.  Thank you for sharing Wildcat_Dad.  You backed your post up with a reliable source, so I'm more inclined to believe you than my assumptions in this instance. 

[WCD]

Great post. I have wondered this for a long time. Seems like a lot of the conservative Christians in Arkansas must have stopped reading their Bible at the book of Malachi. News flash, once Jesus entered the picture, God became a loving, forgiving God. I wonder why people seem to be so comfortable calling themselves Christians while having such an abundance of hate in their lives. It's so ironic.

Ivan, you're different. From what I've seen you post I can't classify you as a hypocrite. But there are plenty of them around.

You are correct that God is a loving and caring God. But, God is also a just and righteous God. He is still the same God that:

Dealt with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David and the prophets.
Caused the flood that destroyed everything that wasn't in the Ark.
Brought judgment upon Sodom & Gomorrah, Tyre and Sidon
God also brought low these nations due to their sins: Egypt, Edom, Assyria, Babylon, Israel & Judah.

The God with whom they had to deal with  is the God we relate to and deal with today.

He is the same God - He does not change in the least.

James 1:17 states: Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

Malachi 3:6 says: 6 "I the LORD do not change.

Psalms 102:26-27 tells us: 26 They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment.
Like clothing you will change them and they will be discarded. 27 But you remain the same, and your years will never end.

Yes, god is love and He wants all to be saved. The sad truth is not all will be saved. Those who refuse to obey Him will be lost. Reflect back to God's command for Lot and his family not to look back. When Lot's wife looked back she was turned into a pillar of salt. That doesn't fit my idea of a loving God but it does fit that of a righteous God who commands us to be faithful.

God has told us He will destroy the world one more time. Doesn't fit my mold of a loving God; more of  God who judges those He created. BUT,

The great part of God is that He loved us enough to create mankind and loved us enough to send His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ to die once and for all for those who will keep His commandments and do His will.

The God of Abraham, Jacob and David is still the God of you and me! He remains  constant; one whom we can look to and trust to keep His promise.  I am thankful for such a God like Him.

Wildcat_Dad

[SMC]

I agree with all of your post. However, my point was that a lot of Christians seem to have the Old Testament, fire and brimstone view of things. Instead of focusing on forgiveness, loving your neighbor, and all those other great things that Jesus taught us...many just like to pass judgment on others and use Old Testament law/verses to justify their hatred.

I know it's the same God. I'm just glad that He didn't stay in the same mood He was in circa Exodus/Leviticus, or we might all be pillars of salt by now. I know I'm not perfect, and am very thankful that God sent His son to take that burden away from us.

[Drama Mama ™]

Or this: What if your child/sibling told you they are gay, and is coming out of the closet?

- I'd tell that kid that he isn't my child anymore, and cut ties.

Or this: What if your child/sibling told you they are dating/marrying someone of a different color/race/religion?

- I wouldn't like it, in varying degrees on what the person they're marrying is, but I'd deal with it.

And finally: Just what color/ethnic group do you think Jesus was when he walked the streets of Nazareth?

- Half Jewish.

Also, you haven't seen me posting any scriptures on here and going on a God trip.

Not going to argue with you really....just going to make ONE comment about ONE thing.......  we SHOULD  love our children unconditionally, so with that being said , I would hope that you would still love your child if he or she came to you and told you that they were gay....and learn to deal with it.  Notice , I said DEAL not ACCEPT.  Yes, I would be VERY freaked out.....probably an butt kicking would be in order.....but I would also remember that I carried my children for 9 months and gave birth to them .  Those are things you just can't and don't throw away.  l'll love my kids till the end of time.....no matter what.  I am sure I would would ask them to keep that part of themselves seperate from our lives as a mom/son/daughter though.

One of these days when your a father (I am just assuming that you are not  ) , you will understand what I am saying.   As for a sibling...... personally I would apply the same rule.........  I would deal with it, but  as for accepting it , and embracing it with open arms....NOT.  I would let my sister know right up front how I feel about it , but also let her know that I love her and will always be her sister.   I would never turn my back on my flesh and blood ...... 
       And that folks, those are  issues that I really hope and pray I never have to deal with......

[Uncle Ivan]

Not going to argue with you really....just going to make ONE comment about ONE thing.......  we SHOULD  love our children unconditionally, so with that being said , I would hope that you would still love your child if he or she came to you and told you that they were gay....and learn to deal with it.

I would deal with it, but I would not accept that a child of mine would grow up to be a deviant.

Oh, and what if your offspring is a murderer?  A rapist?  Should one still love them then?

[Bob Lablaw]

Yeah, love the person, hate the sin. It's still your kid.

[Drama Mama ™]

Not going to argue with you really....just going to make ONE comment about ONE thing....... we SHOULD love our children unconditionally, so with that being said , I would hope that you would still love your child if he or she came to you and told you that they were gay....and learn to deal with it.

I would deal with it, but I would not accept that a child of mine would grow up to be a deviant.

Oh, and what if your offspring is a murderer? A rapist? Should one still love them then?

I haven't pondered that thought yet.....that's serious crap     All in all........I would still love them......remember the deal with not accept rule.  And of course I would just be disgusted  .........ok Ivan....we talkin' 1st or 2nd degree murder ??    That will make a difference 

[amehr36]

If i had a * son, i dont know what id do.

[-Painted Fan-]

After "sleeping" on this (keep in mind, I work 3rd shift, so all kinds of weird things and ideas are going through my head as I try to stay awake), I've come to the conclusion that sometimes I guess I get tired of folks that basically hate each other for no reason.  I work with a young man (and yes, he is gay) that talks to me every night, for the simple fact I'm not afraid to listen.  I really don't care what others think.  I wonder sometimes if people think that if they converse with someone who is gay that maybe that "gayness" (for lack of a better word) will somehow rub off and turn them gay?!  As stupid as it sounds, you would be surprised at the comments I've gotten.  Anyway, back to topic.  Have you ever wondered what if the Jesus this person sees in me is the only Jesus they might ever see?  And if I'm not consistent in my thinking, my ideas, my theology, etc. that maybe this person might not see the REAL JESUS for who He is, a loving and caring God?
   I know I'm rambling, please forgive me.  I've been up all night trying to find the right words to get my point across.  I'm trying to say that if I don't show this person the Love that Christ expects me to show him, if he goes to heckfire, will his blood be on my hands?  I can only shudder at the thought of someone down there, screaming my name, and saying "why didn't you tell me?"
   And to Uncle Ivan, I know you are consistent with your thinking, and I respect that.  I hold no grudges against anyone for standing up for their beliefs.
      I am EXTREMELY far from perfect, and I hope that each of you will hold me in your prayers. 
          I remain your friend, -Painted Fan-

[WCD]

After "sleeping" on this (keep in mind, I work 3rd shift, so all kinds of weird things and ideas are going through my head as I try to stay awake), I've come to the conclusion that sometimes I guess I get tired of folks that basically hate each other for no reason. I work with a young man (and yes, he is gay) that talks to me every night, for the simple fact I'm not afraid to listen. I really don't care what others think. I wonder sometimes if people think that if they converse with someone who is gay that maybe that "gayness" (for lack of a better word) will somehow rub off and turn them gay?! As stupid as it sounds, you would be surprised at the comments I've gotten. Anyway, back to topic. :  I know I'm rambling, please forgive me. I've been up all night trying to find the right words to get my point across. I'm trying to say that if I don't show this person the Love that Christ expects me to show him, if he goes to heckfire, will his blood be on my hands? I can only shudder at the thought of someone down there, screaming my name, and saying "why didn't you tell me?"
And to Uncle Ivan, I know Have you ever wondered what if the Jesus this person sees in me is the only Jesus they might ever see? And if I'm not consistent in my thinking, my ideas, my theology, etc. that maybe this person might not see the REAL JESUS for who He is, a loving and caring God?
you are consistent with your thinking, and I respect that. I hold no grudges against anyone for standing up for their beliefs.
I am EXTREMELY far from perfect, and I hope that each of you will hold me in your prayers.
I remain your friend, -Painted Fan-

Painted Fan,

You know I am your friend and I agree with most every thing you have said. Let me put my thoughts to your statement like this.

A woman caught in adultery was brought to Him by the Pharisees, scribes and lawyers in an effort to trick Him between the old law and the law of grace. We all know what he did! No one cast the first stone and he sent the woman away without throwing the first stone. But as she went away H

e told her, Go and sin no more! Would you not think this is the approach you should take since that was the example that Jesus gave us?

Secondly, to your question: Have you ever wondered what if the Jesus this person sees in me is the only Jesus they might ever see? And if I'm not consistent in my thinking, my ideas, my theology, etc. that maybe this person might not see the REAL JESUS for who He is, a loving and caring God? I'm trying to say that if I don't show this person the Love that Christ expects me to show him, if he goes to heckfire, will his blood be on my hands? I can only shudder at the thought of someone down there, screaming my name, and saying "why didn't you tell me?"

Do you think maybe that he would ask you the same thing if he is condemned to heck because he was  gay and no on tried to explain god's position on homosexuality?

Just my opinion , brother!  We must walk our beliefs and they are not easy but I understand your concern not to drive people away. I feel that it's important to share Jesus with them in a loving way and that means all of the scriptures and not just a few.

God bless you!

Wildcat_Dad

[mudturtle]

Painted Fan should rest comfortable that he has done the best that he can do.  Showing love and compassion for a sinner rather than judging is a good effort.

I think it is extraordinarily unlikely that this coworker is not acutely aware of the Biblical position on homosexuality.  If repeating that message daily drives him away from talking to a compassionate Christian, I don't think he is well served.

Ten years ago I was working at a mission in a rural village and hired a young student as an interpreter for a week.  He had studied in Chicago, was trilingual and was gay.

   On Sunday I invited him to attend church with us which he did. 
   That evening the missionary chasticed me for associating with sinners, explained how that sent the wrong message to the village and that such activities disrupted his work.  I understood his point.
   The next day the translator drove us to the city, and spent the whole trip talking about how wonderful it was to be able to attend church again, that he had felt closer to God than he had for years.  He thanked us for including him and told us he would pray for us everyday.
   A decade later I don't know if I did the right thing or the wrong thing.

[Chief_Osceola™]

I don't have hatred for anyone - it's some of their actions I take issue with.

[rabs_fan4life]

I don't have hatred for anyone - it's some of their actions I take issue with.

Exactly hate the sin, not the sinner!! 

[retiredlion05]

I don't have hatred for anyone - it's some of their actions I take issue with.

Exactly hate the sin, not the sinner!!

So if someone beat, raped and killed your closest family member, you would not hate them?  I'm sorry, I'm a Christian and have been and will continue to be but if someone did all of that to ANY of my family, I would hate the sin and the sinner.  Probably kill the latter.

[Chief_Osceola™]

^ Does the family of the minister in Tennessee who was killed hate the wife for killing him?  No.  And in response to your hypothetical situation - no, I wouldn't hate the person.  As for the person's actions, and retaliating by killing said person, well, we will all be judged accordingly for our actions.  I would harbor anger for a while, but then at some point ask God for his forgiveness.  I have held hatred in my heart for deserving people before, and it only sought to make me more miserable.  Only when a person lets go of hatred can the healing begin.

[Boss Man]

^ Does the family of the minister in Tennessee who was killed hate the wife for killing him?  No.  And in response to your hypothetical situation - no, I wouldn't hate the person.  As for the person's actions, and retaliating by killing said person, well, we will all be judged accordingly for our actions.  I would harbor anger for a while, but then at some point ask God for his forgiveness.  I have held hatred in my heart for deserving people before, and it only sought to make me more miserable.  Only when a person lets go of hatred can the healing begin.

That's so true man

[Drama Mama ™]

OK, I have read through all of the posts.....murder , rape etc.  How each of us would feel if that were to happen to one of our family members.....how would we feel, re-act etc.  But, the question at hand is,  how would we feel if one of our kids.....family members etc were the murderer....the rapists? Would we still love that person ?  Just a thought.   I really don't know how I would feel.   The being gay thing kind of takes a back seat to that question......

[rabs_fan4life]

OK, I have read through all of the posts.....murder , rape etc. How each of us would feel if that were to happen to one of our family members.....how would we feel, re-act etc. But, the question at hand is, how would we feel if one of our kids.....family members etc were the murderer....the rapists? Would we still love that person ? Just a thought. I really don't know how I would feel. The being gay thing kind of takes a back seat to that question......

I can honestly say that I would still love them just the same but would also firmly agree that they should have to pay the price for what ever crime they comitted, but my love for them would not vary.  I may have a hard time facing them for some time but that is all a form of coping and we all cope in our different ways.  I can honestly say that I would act this way though, because I've been there.  For those of you who remember the situation in Lonoke back in January of 1997 when my cousin yes MY COUSIN Heath Stocks murdered his mother and father, Barbra and Joe Stocks, and his sister Heather Stocks.  It was all over the news nation wide and 20/20 specials etc., it is something that most of us who are a little older will remember.  It is something I'll never forget the rest of my life.  It is something that many of us whom were close to them still have difficulty talking about to this day.  They were not only part of our church family which in our church is a very tight family, but they were actual family as well.  In all honesty, as young as I was at the time, 11 years old, I was devestated to know that my big cousin (as distant as a cousin as he may have been I still looked up to him) Heath was a murderer.  It took me as well as a lot of people years to come to terms with it, and some of us still haven't.  I still shake thinking about it, I was talking about it with my Sunday School class just the other day.  But I love Heath just the same, and I pray that he makes his peace with God and truely repeants for what he has done.  No one on earth will ever know if he really has done these things except for Heath, but it is not my place to judge Heath, he will have to take that up with God when his time comes, but until then I will continue to love him.  I love him, but hate the crime he comitted.  Do I think differently of him, of course.  I think he is obviously not the person we all thought him to be, but none the less we all still love him!  Just a personal example from my own life...I'm sure you all have plenty of your own but it just came to my mind when people started asking "what if someone in your family was the killer or rapist...what then...would you still love them."  The answer to this is  YES I would!

[Guetz]

Thank you, Painted Fan, for pointing out the irony of Christian talk from folks that also spew misanthropic BS, suggesting the use of bombs, guns, lethal force against groups or nations of people.  Perhaps your point will be taken to heart and as Wildcat_Dad said, they will start walking their beliefs.

Heartfelt claps for Painted Fan!

[The_reality_is...]

Yeah, i am a Christian and i love God, but i am NOT God, so if i stumble and let my human side take over for a moment please forgive me .

Yeah, but the point is it is not ok to hate someone and then apologize to God about it, then go right back outside and hate them still.....Don't apologize and then smile about it and not change. Apologize, Change your ways, and love everyone...Chrsitian, Muslim, Jew, Atheist, Gay, Black, Brown, etc...

[missdonna]

I have read some of your posts where you write about the Love of God, what He has done for you, and how He has changed you, healed you, met your every need. I read the scriptures that you post.
Then I read another thread, and see where you post something about the "beaners", and how "WE TRUE AMERICANS" are going to boycott Cinco de Mayo, the "happy" in the Brokeback Mountain thread that has drug on for like 15 pages(DIE! THREAD DIE!), and the blacks in the New Black Panther Party, etc. and so on, ad nauseum.
So which is it? Do we "love our neighbor as ourselves" as commanded in Luke 10, or only if he's straight, White, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant? And just where did you come from? You didn't just appear in this country out of thin air. Yes, even the Native American came here from somewhere else.
I don't mean to preach, and I'm FAR from perfect. I just don't understand how we can have such Love for God, and hatred for our fellow man at the same time. I also don't mean to make enemies (hey, I need all the friends I can get- no matter what the color of skin, race, or sexual preference).
I guess I just don't understand.
your friend, -Painted Fan-

I'm sure most of us at one time or another, depending on the thread, we toss our religion out there and then later on say somthing on another thread that might not be inline with our religious beliefs. . .I probably am included in that, not so sure, but I know I am a very passionate person, and particularly on 'certain' subjects, and although I DO consider my self a christian, I am for sure not a PERFECT one, I know only one who was that description, but when all is said and done, I know that at the end of the day, I go home and fall down on my knees and ask forgiveness.  I think (and again only my opinion) that we can all try to live the way our Lord wants us to, we are after all, only human...Now I am about to say something that I'll have to pray about tonight....and remember I haven't been on this site that long, and I am for sure not going to mention any names, but I do see what I believe to be some political and religious posturing.  Now if I am wrong, I do stand corrected, but I just think sometimes people on here say things just to get a reaction, and get a thread going 'good'....lol  Sometimes it is pretty entertaining, and sometimes it gets to my heart and hurts, but those I generally do not reply.  But whatever the reason, I do know this and I have said it many many times, nothing gets more heated that talking about religion and politics, and it seems we all get pretty passionate about our beliefs whether they be political or religious.

thanks for reading
missdonna