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1-4A Baseball

Started by TIGER101, November 22, 2011, 05:34:24 pm

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Bighog

What I am saying is there are probably only 2 teams that when the time comes they will have coach Harris's butt puckering up.  That will be PG and PA, he knows each of those teams can beat each other on any given
day.
As for a lineup we all know who you will have and you know who we have.
What kind of non conference is Shiloh looking at?
[/quote]

Well for starters they are playing Valley View the first game of the season.  Like has been said going to Dominican Republic on spring break. Are you all going to the "Mighty Ozark Tournament" again?  ::)  You get better by playing better competition.
As for "puckering" WHO do you pitch against Farmington, Ozark, Gravette, and Pea Ridge?  You will face Shiloh in one of those weeks.  PRAY FOR RAIN during that time.
Trust me, they are WAITING on Kincaid.  ;D


TIGER101

We might be like you.  Might not throw Kincaid against Shiloh early on.  Really with our #2 its not going to be any different than last year.  Our 2 last year was Cook until the end of year when Aaron came back.  Like everyone else, you try to just go out and out hit and play better defense than the other.

gametime

December 15, 2011, 03:59:21 pm #102 Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 04:13:29 pm by gametime
Ouch bighog that hurt!!!!! Lol.  I've been away from the computer for a couple days and bighog comes out with that bomb.  You are not giving ANY other of the teams any credit, just disrespect.  Let me tell you what last year taught me.  Shiloh beat Farmington something like 23-0, they beat PG like 10-0 in their first games.  Both games were like no hit shut outs with Oliver pitching, Farmington might have had one.  By the end of the year I saw both of those teams not be scared of anything that Shiloh had for them.  Shiloh had to come back and beat Farmington in last inning at Regional, PG beat them "with Kincaid starting" and played in championship game where Shiloh finally pulled it out in one of the best HS games a lot of people had ever seen.  I know  some Shiloh people are a little cocky and arrogant but just don't think these type of teams are just going to roll over cause the big fancy blue bus rolls up with the blue and white uniforms on it.  Its not going to happen.

gametime

Bighog, just looked up PG schedule on web.  They play Fayetteville, Springdale, Stilwell, Siloam Springs, Ft. Smith Northside, MT. Home tourny, best sports tournament, and Ozark tourny.  Would say pretty turf schedule

gametime

December 15, 2011, 06:26:31 pm #104 Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 06:44:34 pm by gametime
You were asking

TIGER101

December 15, 2011, 10:02:58 pm #105 Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 10:10:23 pm by TIGER101
Quote from: gametime on December 15, 2011, 06:25:56 pm
Bighog, just looked up PG schedule on web.  They play Fayetteville, Springdale, Stilwell, Siloam Springs, Ft. Smith Northside, MT. Home tourny, best sports tournament, and Ozark tourny.  Would say pretty turf schedule

I would put that schedule up against anyone in 4A.  The best sports tournament will have several big teams in it.  Last year in MT. Home we played Kickapoo Mo and Conway. There could be a few bumps in the road trying to get where we need to be.   Hope coach Camron hasn't lost his mind. Lol

Bighog

Quote from: TIGER101 on December 15, 2011, 10:02:58 pm
Quote from: gametime on December 15, 2011, 06:25:56 pm
Bighog, just looked up PG schedule on web.  They play Fayetteville, Springdale, Stilwell, Siloam Springs, Ft. Smith Northside, MT. Home tourny, best sports tournament, and Ozark tourny.  Would say pretty turf schedule

I would put that schedule up against anyone in 4A.  The best sports tournament will have several big teams in it.  Last year in MT. Home we played Kickapoo Mo and Conway. There could be a few bumps in the road trying to get where we need to be.   Hope coach Camron hasn't lost his mind. Lol

I do NOT think Cameron has lost his mind. IF he had he would have scheduled a "LITTLE" school in Oklahoma called Red Oak.  When he does that THEN he has lost his mind.   

Bighog

Quote from: gametime on December 15, 2011, 03:59:21 pm
Ouch bighog that hurt!!!!! Lol.  I've been away from the computer for a couple days and bighog comes out with that bomb.  You are not giving ANY other of the teams any credit, just disrespect.  Let me tell you what last year taught me.  Shiloh beat Farmington something like 23-0, they beat PG like 10-0 in their first games.  Both games were like no hit shut outs with Oliver pitching, Farmington might have had one.  By the end of the year I saw both of those teams not be scared of anything that Shiloh had for them.  Shiloh had to come back and beat Farmington in last inning at Regional, PG beat them "with Kincaid starting" and played in championship game where Shiloh finally pulled it out in one of the best HS games a lot of people had ever seen.  I know  some Shiloh people are a little cocky and arrogant but just don't think these type of teams are just going to roll over cause the big fancy blue bus rolls up with the blue and white uniforms on it.  Its not going to happen.

When did PG beat them with Kincaid pitching?  They beat them ONE time in about 6 games.  Beeks was pitching.  That was the district tournament in Lincoln.  Other than that  ;D

TIGER101

Beeks just pitched the last 2 or 3 innings of district tournament.  Kincaid started.

Skunk Ape, Esq.

I find it interesting that the 2012 1-4A baseball thread has focused more on 2011 1-4A baseball.

I'll give my .02 here for the regional qualifiers:

Shiloh
Prairie Grove
Ozark
Gravette

These are in no particular order. I was very tempted to throw Pea Ridge in there, but decided that Ozark and Gravette were both better choices.

TIGER101


Skunk Ape, Esq.

Quote from: TIGER101 on December 16, 2011, 07:28:11 am
Where is red oak?

It is a small town/school in southwest Oklahoma. Look them up. Baseball powerhouse. They travel and play teams in Oklahoma like Owasso, Broken Arrow, etc. I believe they played Shiloh twice last year and split with them.

TIGER101

You better throw Farmington in there somewhere.  Going to be more competitive this year I think

TIGER101

Quote from: Skunk Ape, Esq. on December 16, 2011, 07:29:20 am
Quote from: TIGER101 on December 16, 2011, 07:28:11 am
Where is red oak?

It is a small town/school in southwest Oklahoma. Look them up. Baseball powerhouse. They travel and play teams in Oklahoma like Owasso, Broken Arrow, etc. I believe they played Shiloh twice last year and split with them.

I have heard of them, just didn't know where they were

tiger fan 13

i agree farmington is not gonna be a laydown team, you will have to beat them....i am also tempted to throw the blackhawks in the mix, it should be a good year for baseball in the 1-4a

Bighog

Quote from: TIGER101 on December 16, 2011, 07:41:58 am
You better throw Farmington in there somewhere.  Going to be more competitive this year I think

ROFLMAO!!!!  If PG does not run rule Farmington this year.  Then your coach needs to resign.
They are in worse shape than PG is with the pitching situation.
Levi, after he pitches they are done.

TIGER101

Bighog, I'm just curious.  Why are you so down on PG and some of the other teams in our conference?  Do you honestly think Shiloh has any more shut down pitching than everyone else?

TIGER101

The reason I ask Is because you were making it sound like shiloh is going to be even better then they were last year.  You lost your lead off hitter, which I think is gonna hurt you more than you realize.  You also lost your 2 hole and 5 hole hitters. Plus you lost oliver and Jones from pitching staff, which was your 1 and 2.  I'm not saying that you will not be very good I'm just saying that you lost a lot as well.

Skunk Ape, Esq.

Quote from: Bighog on December 16, 2011, 09:33:51 am
They (Farmington) are in worse shape than PG is with the pitching situation.

Which is why I didn't throw them into the mix.

Bighog

Quote from: TIGER101 on December 16, 2011, 10:08:52 am
Bighog, I'm just curious.  Why are you so down on PG and some of the other teams in our conference?  Do you honestly think Shiloh has any more shut down pitching than everyone else?

Yes I do.  ALL of them except POSSIBLY Gravette.  May will match up with Kincaid.  Petrino will be there to shut it down when needed.  Now lets talk about hitting.  I know the bats have all been changed and the ball is not going to go as far.  But that does not change anything REALLY. Lets look at it this way, if I am hitting it 300 feet with the old bats and you are hitting it 250.  If the new bats supposedly knock off about 25 feet in distance.  I am still hitting 275 while you are hitting 225.  It might take down on the number of homeruns but the difference in the distance we are hitting stays the same.  This is where Shiloh will be above the rest of the conference.  I will also say this again.  If you do not have a fastball pitcher Shiloh will steal on you all day long.  If a kid is throwing 75-78 the catcher does not have the arm to throw them out stealing second.  Tyler Harris arm will make the difference in most of Shiloh situations.  Prairie Grove or Farmington does not have that luxury.  That is what I am saying.  Now tell me where I am incorrect.
This is what happens when they stack the teams in the WCCL baseball.  We put all the good players on one team.  Then when these kids get to the high school level they have not gotten any better.  When they were younger all they had to do was take 4 pitches and walk to 1st base.  Then they get up to the 14-15 year old high school level and you have the high school coaches come to the games and shake his head thinking MY GOD this is what I have to work with next year.  I have seen it for the last 10 years.  Tell me ONE kid that improved in Farmington baseball from 9 year old until high school.

tiger fan 13

you are unbelieveable, you think that kids from farmington havent gotten better since they were 9yr olds? they all improve maybe not like shilo,but again we dont have indoor facilities to work year round like shilo...thats pretty awfull to say they dont improve......but i would expect that from you!

TIGER101

OMG, I really cannot believe what I'm reading right now.  You sound like you THINK you have done your homework but it's obvious that you have not.  Every single kid that will play on the varsity team this year not only has played tournament baseball every summer since the time that they were 8 to 9 years old they have also played every player from shiloh.  As luck may have it I happen to know both coaches that all the kids played 4, and it wasn't in the wccl.  So go back do your research then you can start stating what you think our facts.  I do enjoy having the conversation with you on FF, but really you're starting to sound a fool.

Skunk Ape, Esq.

Quote from: tiger fan 13 on December 16, 2011, 12:42:14 pm
you are unbelieveable, you think that kids from farmington havent gotten better since they were 9yr olds? they all improve maybe not like shilo,but again we dont have indoor facilities to work year round like shilo...thats pretty awfull to say they dont improve......but i would expect that from you!

Any more in NWA, most kids have the opportunity to work on baseball year round...just not as a team.

Bighog

You sound like you THINK you have done your homework but it's obvious that you have not.  Every single kid that will play on the varsity team this year not only has played tournament baseball every summer since the time that they were 8 to 9 years old they have also played every player from shiloh.
...

Well since you have done your homework and I have not.  Could you tell me what level of tournament baseball they played?  Hate to be the one to point it out but AA in USSSA is about equal to the WCCL.  If they were AAA congrats.  If they were Major (which they were not) then I suggest they get another coach.  The ONLY players they have played from Shiloh are Petrino, Paulino, May, Chenier and Harris.

I will say again remember the name J.T. Rhodes.  The newest member of the team.  Since he came over in the 12th grade.  You can blame it on "recruiting".  LOL!!!

So now, WHO needs to do their "homework"?  I also enjoy the conversations.  ;D

TIGER101

You really have not a clue.  Keep representing shiloh you're doing a great job

Flanders

Bighog what are you even talking about? Whats your argument? That double A in USSSA actually means something? That once a player turns 9 or 10 years old he stops progressing? Bc to me all your doing is babbling on like a kid wanting some attention

Bighog

Do not need to represent Shiloh or any other school.  You are the one saying how a coaches butt will pucker.  ;D

I just pointed out that he will probably get a cramp in his arm from waving runners home.  ;D

I guess in about 70 days we will find out who "Puckers".  :-*

Flanders

And do you honestly believe shilohs ace can match up with prairie groves ace? Or ozark or gravette for that matter?

gametime

Wow, this board is getting more and more interesting.  I guess Farmington should just bring their 13-15 yr old babe ruth team up..  Don't think Bighog has many friends to talk to so he is just taking it out on Farmington.  I know a guy who had a kid who went to Farmington and transferd to a school somewhere in "Springdale" several years ago who used to say the same things.

Bighog

Quote from: Flanders on December 16, 2011, 02:44:47 pm
And do you honestly believe shilohs ace can match up with prairie groves ace? Or ozark or gravette for that matter?

With PG ace:  YES
With Ozark ace: YES
With Gravette ace: Not sure since their ace was ineligible last year and have not seen him.  I think Shiloh will give Gravette a run for their money though.

Bighog

Quote from: gametime on December 16, 2011, 04:14:54 pm
I know a guy who had a kid who went to Farmington and transferd to a school somewhere in "Springdale" several years ago who used to say the same things.

Did the kid improve any after transferring?

TIGER101

Bighog, Gravette can't and wont hang with you guys and you know it.  They couldn't score last year, no hitters and wont be any different this year unless they have had 6 or 7 move-ins.

Bighog

I am not saying they will beat Shiloh.  I am saying as far as pitching is concerned they will match up with Shiloh more than the other teams will.

They kept their top 2 pitchers from last year.  The new kid is supposed to be the ace of their staff.  I will just have to see if he has any velocity or movement on the pitches.

PGTIGERS09

Quote from: gametime on December 16, 2011, 04:14:54 pm
Wow, this board is getting more and more interesting.  I guess Farmington should just bring their 13-15 yr old babe ruth team up..  Don't think Bighog has many friends to talk to so he is just taking it out on Farmington.  I know a guy who had a kid who went to Farmington and transferd to a school somewhere in "Springdale" several years ago who used to say the same things.

LOL Ive been saying those things for years.  My kid transfered to the Grove!! 

Skunk Ape, Esq.

Quote from: TIGER101 on December 16, 2011, 05:25:18 pm
Bighog, Gravette can't and wont hang with you guys and you know it.  They couldn't score last year, no hitters and wont be any different this year unless they have had 6 or 7 move-ins.

Now we are contradicting ourselves. So Farmington's kids can get better from one  year to the next, but kids from Gravette (or any other school for that matter) can not?

Interesting.

Bighog

Quote from: PGTIGERS09 on December 16, 2011, 08:07:50 pm
Quote from: gametime on December 16, 2011, 04:14:54 pm
Wow, this board is getting more and more interesting.  I guess Farmington should just bring their 13-15 yr old babe ruth team up..  Don't think Bighog has many friends to talk to so he is just taking it out on Farmington.  I know a guy who had a kid who went to Farmington and transferd to a school somewhere in "Springdale" several years ago who used to say the same things.

LOL Ive been saying those things for years.  My kid transfered to the Grove!!

All I will say is "CHRISTIAN's" belong with the SAINTS".   You will have to make the decision your own self.

tiger fan 13

 ;DIm sure Shiloh has some christians there , but they dont always reflect the term christian, but even Jesus chose the very worst to change their ways , and carry the gospel..and it may all be in good works...anyway it makes for some interesting post! ::)

gametime

Where did this conversation come from??  Lol

Bighog

Quote from: Bighog on December 19, 2011, 10:03:24 am
Quote from: PGTIGERS09 on December 16, 2011, 08:07:50 pm
Quote from: gametime on December 16, 2011, 04:14:54 pm
Wow, this board is getting more and more interesting.  I guess Farmington should just bring their 13-15 yr old babe ruth team up..  Don't think Bighog has many friends to talk to so he is just taking it out on Farmington.  I know a guy who had a kid who went to Farmington and transferd to a school somewhere in "Springdale" several years ago who used to say the same things.

LOL Ive been saying those things for years.  My kid transfered to the Grove!!

All I will say is "CHRISTIAN's" belong with the SAINTS".   You will have to make the decision your own self.

Let PGTigers09 fill you in. LOL!!

gametime

Hey bighog, to get back to some baseball.  I went back and checked the web and there were a couple of teams with players from Farmington and PG on them that were AAA and Major.  One team called Rockhounds another called Diamond Hawgs/Wild Hawgs.  It seems both of thes teams started AA when younger then moved up to AAA and Major later.  I will check on Shiloh and their players and get back to you.

Skunk Ape, Esq.

As a non-partisan, I like to make wild predictions on finishes. Here's a few for y'all to slap me for and call me an idiot, stupid, what-have-you...

Conference Champion
Shiloh -- I just don't see anyone in the league being able to keep their bats quiet enough to beat them consistently.

Conference Tourney Champion
Shiloh -- While their pitching could be a problem here with the tourney format, see my comments above about their hitting.

Regional Qualifiers
Shiloh
Prairie Grove
Gravette
Ozark

Best Team Not Headed to Regionals
Pea Ridge

Biggest Drop Off
Berryville -- The Bobcats had a nice season last year and surprised a few folks, but according to my good  Carroll County buddy, they'll slip back down the totem pole this year.

Best Pitching Staffs
Notice I said "staff"...not one pitcher. Until a team shows me other wise I'll go with:
1. Shiloh
2. Prairie Grove (although I'm not real sure here)
3. Gravette
4. Ozark
5. Pea Ridge
6. Farmington
7. Gentry/Berryville
8. Gentry/Berryville

Best Catcher
Shiloh, hands down.

Sleeper Team
Gravette -- I don't expect these guys to win the conference, obviously, but I think they might be better than some are thinking. I saw them play last year and at times they looked like they had some potential...and then I saw them at the regional tourney and they looked like the didn't belong.

PGTIGERS09

I will agree that in Farmington they stack teams based on who they think are the best or the ones that like the best.  This usually leads to big run rules and the kids not getting any better.   For Bighogs point..  on last years Farmington team Spencer had played Traveling ball, Boudrey, some for Levi but the majority of Farmington teams win the Championship in the WCCL without much trouble however those kids dont see substantial gains.  I can go back to Jerry Kahls team.  Miller, Fitts, Kahl, Abrecht, Tyler Higgs..ect .ect. ect.  They beat PG one night 26-0 they were running around the dugout..  they hit 7 hrs.  When they got to HS .... PG with Coyle, Clement, Scroggins, Ketzler beat them consistantly.  They werent forced to get better when they were younger.  PERIOD.  I for a fact know two coaches that drafted and the second coach drafted the worst player first and his own son didnt even play on his team.  Farmington won recently because Spencer and solid D.  Spencer played with the Titans with Oliver and Cutter.  I apologize for this being long winded but there is truth to what Bighog is telling.  I understand that Tiger101 is saying.  Everyone gets bigger stronger and faster.. in turn better.  I have first hand knowledge of what Bighog says. 

Bighog

Quote from: gametime on December 20, 2011, 10:08:51 am
Hey bighog, to get back to some baseball.  I went back and checked the web and there were a couple of teams with players from Farmington and PG on them that were AAA and Major.  One team called Rockhounds another called Diamond Hawgs/Wild Hawgs.  It seems both of thes teams started AA when younger then moved up to AAA and Major later.  I will check on Shiloh and their players and get back to you.

Let me make it easy for you.  First of all there is NOT a Major team in the STATE of Arkansas.

Paulino:  Played AAA a few years when younger. Played for Baxendale last year.
Petrino: Played AAA most of his life. Picked up by a major team in Memphis and played for them in a tournament. Played Team USA. Played in Cincinnatti one summer and Tulsa last summer.
Chenier: Played AAA most of his young life. Played for Lindsey last year.
Offenbacker: Played AAA most of his life. Played for Lindsey for 2 years.
Harris:  Played AAA most of his life.  Played for Midwest Nationals last year.
Oliver: Played AAA most of his life. Would ALWAYS in a higher age category.  Played in Cincinnati for 2 years. Recruited by Arkansas out of high school. Drafted by Baltimore out of high school.

Do you notice a trend there?
NONE of them spent their baseball years at WCCL. 

tiger fan 13

so did Oliver go to baltimore or stay at Arkansas? i bet you really miss him!

TIGER101

I think you both make good points.  I don't think you can ever underestimate good competitive off season play.  One reminder for bighog is I have heard him mention about how he thought Beeks was one of the top few pitchers in the state last year.  He only played a few years of any tournament ball, and most of them were on AA teams until the end.  Pgtiger09 knows how small Beeks was until he turned a junior in high school.  I bet he didn't weigh 140 lbs forever.  I think he turned out just fine.  On the other hand give me a group of kids who have been pushed early on in their youth and you will have yourself a dang good team as they get older.

TIGER101

December 20, 2011, 03:45:25 pm #145 Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 03:54:54 pm by TIGER101
I am 99% saw Oliver play a WCCL game in PG.  Would not bet life but would wager a pretty good penny on it.

Plus we were only talking about current players.  Graduated players wont be of any help this year.

skeeb

Utrip baseball\ competitve baseball is a big part of a players pie chart. A good high school baseball is also a big part. Big advantages to those who have had both. I agree there are a few schools in the 1-4A who have an advantage because of it.  Dont look at individual players quite so much though. The reason the Shilohs and PGs are good today is the same reason the Farmingtons and PGs were good in years past. (I only go back about 5-6 years...im not trying to miss a team if I have) Dads.  Dads took a group of kids from their school and played competitive ball at a young age. PG is made up of kids coached by a handful of dads. keeping them together to build a team that strives to win championships. PG was really good 5 years ago...group of dads. Shiloh 3years ago-to date...group of dads. (maybe a move in or two) Having a talented kid or two is a blessing on a team. But...having a championship viable team starts early with a large group of boys spanning some age brackets that are loyal to their hometown and have dads that will coach and mommas to put up with everything that goes with it.

left field

Also, remember that one reason some kids can't play USSSA is possibly because the financial dedication that it requires.

PG has several kids that I'm aware of who played:  Keilan Henderson, Landon West, Dakota Daniels, Aaron Kincaid, Cates, Ty Tice, Nick Sugg, Jalen Beeks, and Weston Bartholomew.


Flanders

December 20, 2011, 04:10:35 pm #148 Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 12:14:03 pm by Flanders
.

skeeb

Quote from: Flanders on December 20, 2011, 04:10:35 pm
I thought Aaron moved to PG a few years ago. Heard it was bc of baseball
Im not sure the reason. But he came from Stillwell Ok.  They are a perennial power house in a town where baseball is life. He was already in a great spot if it were baseball.

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