Coaching styles

[Nip/Tusk]

I wondered about this yesterday as we had a discussion on the 1-4a thread about coaches.

Where do you draw the line between coaching and going too far (as in demeaning or belittling a kid) in a game situation.

What type of style (personality) is best suited for high school athletes?  Does that style differ from boys and girls?

I saw a coach recently get in a players face and it visibly upset the player. The coach later talked to the kid and put his arm around her.

Just curious to get some opinions and thoughts on this from everyone.

It seems to me that sometimes coaches put too much attention on themselves and forget these kids are still developing and are at times mentally fragile. It also seems that some coaches treat kids differently depending on the kids personality, background, family, etc

I'm by no means an expert on any of this, so I'm not necessarily judging anyone. Just wanted to know if y'all have any thoughts.

[Coach DePriest, Sheridan]

http://fcacoachesacademy.com/

This changed my view of just about everything to do with coaching.  I was a relationship coach before, but this stuff takes it to a much higher level. 

Also, Ron Crawford gave me a book a few years ago called A Season of Life by Jeffrey Marx.  Then, the guy that it was about, Joe Ehrmann, wrote a book that I've read and then did a book study on called InSideOut Coaching.  He is very similar to the 3D Coaching guy, Jeff Duke, but just describes it a little differently.

I've also read Quiet Strength by Tony Dungy, which was really good, but The Mentor Leader that he wrote has had a bigger impact on my coaching.

Now to answer your question, there are a lot of coaches that yell and get on players at an over the top level.  It's not my style, but if the coach loves on the player later and lets him know why he did that, I can respect that.  Coach Kelley and Coach Wood at PA will jump your butt like nobody's business, but those kids know exactly how they feel about them at the end of the day.  They won't let that player leave after practice or a game without loving on them and telling them they care.

[beach bum]

It would take me one try to know who you are talking about.... He gets away with a lot for sure.

[Obytheway]

There is a coach right now, (I will not say names) that I would never let my child play for.  I'm sure we are all talking about the same one.  I have no problem with a coach being hard on girls.  I have no problem with a coach getting on a girl if a mistake is made.  And I would have no problem with a coach giving instruction with a coaching tone.  BUT, when you have to scream 2 inches from their face so hard that the coaches face is red and the veins popping out, and with the young lady crying in front of 5- 600 people, then it has gone to far. 
I ask a serious question.  Would this be acceptable at your work place, or even if you walked by a very LARGE man doing this in a store or parking lot to a young lady who is seriously 1/3 his weight or size.  I can guarantee you the police would be called.  But when it happens on school property, and since he wins games you turn your head and justify it?  The people I know in that town are really good people and I am shocked they have let it go this long.  Is it because of the win?  I have a friend I know very well who lives in that town, and earlier this year made a good point to me.  He said, he bets he don't talk to his wife and kids the way he does his players, and if he talked to the superintendent or other administrations wives that way he would be gone, but they allow him to talk to young ladies that way?

[Nip/Tusk]

Kids are fragile and I know of grown women and men who have been scarred by coaches because of their actions and words.

[Obytheway]

I totally agree. My daughter would not play for a coach like that and I wouldn't care how much he wins. Kids are fragile anyway and I know of grown women and men who have been scarred by coaches because of their demeaning actions and words.

I too am shocked that so many are willing to just let coaches act that way.

I have been told, he is a very very pleasant person when he is not coaching, but you mark my words, there will be a day when he does this to the wrong young lady and

he and the school will be in a law suit from her and her parents.  The school administration/school board will then be answering legal questions on how and why they let it

go on for so long. 

[beach bum]

I totally agree. My daughter would not play for a coach like that and I wouldn't care how much he wins. Kids are fragile anyway and I know of grown women and men who have been scarred by coaches because of their demeaning actions and words.

I too am shocked that so many are willing to just let coaches act that way.

I have been told, he is a very very pleasant person when he is not coaching, but you mark my words, there will be a day when he does this to the wrong young lady and

he and the school will be in a law suit from her and her parents.  The school administration/school board will then be answering legal questions on how and why they let it

go on for so long.

Some say he is pleasant to be around off the court. I call it being a suck up and especially to all the right people which is all that matters in a small town. That is what is great about Abshier and Edmiston for the two major boys programs. All though they have different personalities they are quietly confident in who they are and do not kiss peoples' rear ends. Those are two high character men leading the boys sides.

[nuttinbuthogs]

There are lots of views/opinions on this subject.  Who is correct?  I am as aware as anyone that there are bad coachs just like there are bad police, fireman, doctors, lawyers, walmart managers and on and on.  A coach has to be who he is, (of course within reason).  The problem is whose reason are you using?  What is acceptable for one child, one parent or even at one school will almost certainly be wrong somewhere else. I think the best solution is to make the assumption that coaches are generally trying to do their job, coaching kids to make them better athletes, these them work habits and discipline and all that.  (keep in mind that coaches that do not win, are usually dumb, bad coaches, and will get fired in short order). So until some behavior that is clearly not appropriate in the mind of reasonable thinking people, and you should ask coaches about what is appropriate or not as you try to decide, you should trust that they are doing more good than harm.  That most of the coaches are coaching in the heat of the game and trying to win and keep their jobs as well as work with 14-18 year olds who are not adults and don't think like adults, and most parents see no fault with their children.  Their kid always shows up to practice and on time and always works harder than any other kid in America and never makes a mistake and always tells the truth about every situation where a coach got on to him.  I have watched parents berate a coach for his behavior or the way he treated their child and then seen that same parent coach little league or summer league and be as bad or worse.
In short, do you really know everything about the situation and not just deciding in the moment?

[always88]

It all comes down to what parents are willing to put up with for the sake of winning, whether it's right or wrong. But take a coach that is losing and has same habits/characteristics as the coach being referred to in this post and parents will lose their minds and said coach will be looking for anew job.

[Bulldog92]

^+1^

[nuttinbuthogs]

That is true in many cases. Also true is a good coach who does it all correctly but doesn't win and he too will be looking for a new job. Parents in this senario will be saying he is a bad coach, doesn't know what he is doing or to help get rid of him, that he doesn't treat the kids right. Why do you think so many schools are always hiring new coaches over and over and over?  Then you have the coach who just doesn't have that warm and fuzzy demeanor with the parents and he too is going to have issues.  So if your doctor has a bad beside manner but is a great clinical doctor do you go somewhere else?

[left field]

These are young girls we are talking about.  They should be treated with respect.  I don't mind a coach yelling or telling a young girl what she is doing wrong.  But when she is berated, embarrassed and humiliated like this coach likes to do, it is wrong.  I have no idea why he is able to treat anyone like this. 

[always88]

The officials are obviously intimidated by him as well! Ive seen him screaming and stomping his feet at an official standing 3 feet from him and never receive a technical.  I don't know him personally, but his mannerisms seem very pleasant outside of the basketball court.

[HighSchoolRecruiter]

[chickasaw fan]

Who is it??? Where does he coach at? I want to see for myself before i make judgement!!

[Basketballfan13]

I could be wrong but I thought I read a post somewhere that made it seem like Praire Grove...could be wrong though, I've never seen their coach.

[RTF]

I can take yelling ( I don't like it though) at a kid if its constructive criticism, but if its to just belittle them or to cuss them out then I draw line, they are just kids by the way. Also, its amazing what you are willing to put up with when your team is winning championships of any kind. ( which is sad)

[nuttinbuthogs]

You use the term, "cuss them out"  that is strong criticism.  Is that actually what this coach is doing?  Cussing them out?  If not you should not imply that.

[RTF]

You use the term, "cuss them out"  that is strong criticism.  Is that actually what this coach is doing?  Cussing them out?  If not you should not imply that.

What I said was in general, not to any specific coach.

[TigerTime]

Exactly who are we talking about?

[Bulldog92]

If you don't want your kid to play for a coach then don't let them, But quit beating up unnamed coaches to keep a thread going. I have never hear so much "if our coach did or said that, my little sweet heart wouldn't play for them" in my life. Every coach is different and some win and some lose. If your child is playing for one losing is doesn't matter what kind of coach they are you want them gone and if your child is playing for one that is winning they are the best coach in the country!!!  If you don't have a dog in the hunt you always have a strong opinion about what your child would or wouldn't do but it all goes back to the sentence before this one.

[nuttinbuthogs]

LOL!  Every parent always knows best.  LOL!

[Iknewthemwhen]

If you don't want your kid to play for a coach then don't let them, But quit beating up unnamed coaches to keep a thread going. I have never hear so much "if our coach did or said that, my little sweet heart wouldn't play for them" in my life. Every coach is different and some win and some lose. If your child is playing for one losing is doesn't matter what kind of coach they are you want them gone and if your child is playing for one that is winning they are the best coach in the country!!!  If you don't have a dog in the hunt you always have a strong opinion about what your child would or wouldn't do but it all goes back to the sentence before this one.

Ever gone to a game and listen to all the people yelling at someone else? 

[Bulldog92]

I've been to a lot of games and if you are referring to all the coaches in the stands, then yes I have!! LOL!!!

[Iknewthemwhen]

Coaches and officials.  Sometimes it's more entertaining than the other game.

[Bulldog92]

I am not saying anything about the great officials in the stands!! I will not cast the first stone on that one, LOL!!!

[footballfan-tastic]

What about parents who sit back and allow a coach to demean a child who is not their child, because their child is a coach favorite. Is this hypocritical?

[Tigergirl]

My first question to all of you is, have you ever played for this coach? If not, how can you have such a harsh opinion and say things like "My daughter would never play for him". I find it quite comical that so many people can have cruel judgments on a person without knowing the facts. Truth is, he's my #1 pick for who I want my daughter to play for and I pray he's still around when she's in high school. The man you are all referring to is one of the best coaches around and by far one of the best people around and I can promise you he cares more about those girls than any of you would ever know. To the person who implied that he cusses at the girls, you're wrong. I am positive he has never "cussed out" any of his girls. Notice I said "his girls". All of his players are his girls and he treats them that way, like daughters. Yeah, he may be tough on them, but I'm pretty certain a coach's job (and a parent's job) is to teach and not baby his players (or children). Do you all want your daughters to play for a passionless coach? I don't. Have you ever watched him coach? It's probably one of the funniest/ most entertaining things to watch because he is so into the game and so passionate about his girls and about winning. To me, that is what a coach is supposed to be. Passionate. Caring. Considerate. Loving. A Teacher. Why don't all of you who are speaking negatively about him do some research. Go find one of his former players and ask them their honest opinion. My suggestion would be to find the players he was the hardest on and ask their opinion on this guy. Go to a game and count how many of his former players are there supporting him. You'll be surprised at how many girls go back to his games to show their support for this man who supported them through high school and beyond. That will give you more truth than these rumors you all have heard about him. He's been at this school for what, 12 years? Don't you think he'd be gone by now if he was as terrible as you all are saying. It's hilarious to me that people have this opinion of someone they know nothing about. I'll end by saying this, to those of you speaking negatively about this person- you're wrong. That's the facts.

[Bulldog92]

Well put TigerGirl!! 

[Tigergirl]

Thanks, Bulldog92!

[RTF]

My first question to all of you is, have you ever played for this coach? If not, how can you have such a harsh opinion and say things like "My daughter would never play for him". I find it quite comical that so many people can have cruel judgments on a person without knowing the facts. Truth is, he's my #1 pick for who I want my daughter to play for and I pray he's still around when she's in high school. The man you are all referring to is one of the best coaches around and by far one of the best people around and I can promise you he cares more about those girls than any of you would ever know. To the person who implied that he cusses at the girls, you're wrong. I am positive he has never "cussed out" any of his girls. Notice I said "his girls". All of his players are his girls and he treats them that way, like daughters. Yeah, he may be tough on them, but I'm pretty certain a coach's job (and a parent's job) is to teach and not baby his players (or children). Do you all want your daughters to play for a passionless coach? I don't. Have you ever watched him coach? It's probably one of the funniest/ most entertaining things to watch because he is so into the game and so passionate about his girls and about winning. To me, that is what a coach is supposed to be. Passionate. Caring. Considerate. Loving. A Teacher. Why don't all of you who are speaking negatively about him do some research. Go find one of his former players and ask them their honest opinion. My suggestion would be to find the players he was the hardest on and ask their opinion on this guy. Go to a game and count how many of his former players are there supporting him. You'll be surprised at how many girls go back to his games to show their support for this man who supported them through high school and beyond. That will give you more truth than these rumors you all have heard about him. He's been at this school for what, 12 years? Don't you think he'd be gone by now if he was as terrible as you all are saying. It's hilarious to me that people have this opinion of someone they know nothing about. I'll end by saying this, to those of you speaking negatively about this person- you're wrong. That's the facts.

Wow. some of you do not know how to read... what I said about the "cussing out" thing was in general...which means it was not directed to ANY specific coach.

Also, obviously your the coaches wife or relative of the one the people have been posting about above me.

[Tigergirl]

I understand that you weren't referring to ONE CERTAIN coach. I was just making sure that everyone knew that he does not cuss his girls out because your post seemed to have confuse a few people. I'm not in any way related to this coach.  Just want to get the truth out there for those of you who have so many opinions about a person you don't even know. 

[Bulldog92]

RTF it really doesn't matter if she is the coaches wife or not she could just be an alum of the school that played for this particular coach. What she said is the truth, period!  For you that have never played the game or played for a coach that passionate then you absolutely have no idea what you are talking about. You are just happy your child is on a team and gets to participate!  Kids that grow up in a school with a coach that is as passionate as this coach and wants his kids to play at the very best of their ability can't wait to play for them. Most will try and a lot will fail but that's life and more times than not its the kid that quits the coach not the coach quitting the kid!!  Even if the kid doesn't hit the court in a game that kid will be taught life lessons that will get them through some tough times when they get out into the workplace. 

[RTF]

RTF it really doesn't matter if she is the coaches wife or not she could just be an alum of the school that played for this particular coach. What she said is the truth, period!  For you that have never played the game or played for a coach that passionate then you absolutely have no idea what you are talking about. You are just happy your child is on a team and gets to participate!  Kids that grow up in a school with a coach that is as passionate as this coach and wants his kids to play at the very best of their ability can't wait to play for them. Most will try and a lot will fail but that's life and more times than not its the kid that quits the coach not the coach quitting the kid!!  Even if the kid doesn't hit the court in a game that kid will be taught life lessons that will get them through some tough times when they get out into the workplace.

No, it doesn't matter, but when your first post on fearless friday is to stick up for a coach, then nine out tens times it's the wife/relative. I also have no idea who the people above are even talking about.

I do know a thing about passion and its one thing to be passionate, ans another to belittle

[Tigergirl]

Looks like I'm that 1 out of 10 then. Can you give examples of how he belittles the girls? I'd love to hear some since you seem to have plenty. I've been to numerous of their games and I've never seen it, so just curious.

I strongly agree with your comment, Bulldog92, "Most of the time its the kids quitting the coach not the coach quitting the kids". Great leaders and great coaches don't give up on the kids no matter what and this coach that is being bashed on here is a testimony to that.

[pridgehog]

The Head Coach At Prairie Grove is a very spirited guy, he expects his girls to play to the best of their ability. He demands their best effort and their respect. I am sure at the moment they are getting yelled at, its not real fun. As they grow into Mothers and members of society, they will be prepared for the fact that life is not easy. I feel like his passion bleeds into the way this team performs. There is more than one way to skin a cat or coach Basketball!

[RTF]

Looks like I'm that 1 out of 10 then. Can you give examples of how he belittles the girls? I'd love to hear some since you seem to have plenty. I've been to numerous of their games and I've never seen it, so just curious.

I strongly agree with your comment, Bulldog92, "Most of the time its the kids quitting the coach not the coach quitting the kids". Great leaders and great coaches don't give up on the kids no matter what and this coach that is being bashed on here is a testimony to that.

Who's he? none of my posts have been directed to anyone specific. I was just posting stuff on what I have seen from coaches in the past and look down upon.

[ProudforFroud04]

In response to the on-lookers/parents of the players under this coaches technique, I am one of his past players. I played under his authority for 6 years. I also got the worst "butt-chewing" of his career, his words, not mine. What is absolutely amazing about this man, is that after that game, he waited outside for me and apologized. I now come back to see him at least once a week. Or try to. What a coach does or doesn't do shouldn't matter. You play the game because you love it. But I am so sick and tired of people bashing such a brilliant Coach and kind hearted man. Like someone else said, if you think he is so demeaning and horrible, then you don't deserve the PRIVILEGE of having your child play for this man and the legacy he has already built. Now, if you want your child to learn true discipline as an individual, loyalty as a teammate, honor as a player, hardwork under adversity and a spot in a successful program then please, quit judging and watch your child learn more from him than she will in class. Coach Froud, thank you for being amazing.

[biglion1985]

Proud I agree with you all the way we at manila, which is 3a by the way, have a coach we just call coach lee he gets on our boys hard and heavy yes at times it does seem like he goes too far but everyone knows that when he does he wants the boys to succeed and I for one am proud to have coaches like that around they are getting a little few and far between so yes again I will say everyone needs more coaches like them around

[Nip/Tusk]

I never mentioned any coach by name and I wasn't even referring to Coach Froud who has a proven record and is obviously respected.

I started this thread to ask about what style lends itself best to high school athletes. My original post was in regards to a situation I had seen and wondered what everyone's opinion on that situation would be.

Sheesh. Could the mods please just trash this.

[RTF]

I never mentioned any coach by name and I wasn't even referring to Coach Froud who has a proven record and is obviously respected.

I started this thread to ask about what style lends itself best to high school athletes. My original post was in regards to a situation I had seen and wondered what everyone's opinion on that situation would be.

Sheesh. Could the mods please just trash this.

Thats what I thought this thread was about and posted my views, some people though. smh

[Tigergirl]

Way to go, Proud for Froud!

[Bulldog92]

You mentioned 1-4A in your first post and that you all had been talking about it that forum, so people will assume you are talking about a coach from the 1-4A??  People have their opinions from both sides of the aisle.

[Tigergirl]

I have been told, he is a very very pleasant person when he is not coaching, but you mark my words, there will be a day when he does this to the wrong young lady and

he and the school will be in a law suit from her and her parents.  The school administration/school board will then be answering legal questions on how and why they let it

go on for so long.


Some say he is pleasant to be around off the court. I call it being a suck up and especially to all the right people which is all that matters in a small town. That is what is great about Abshier and Edmiston for the two major boys programs. All though they have different personalities they are quietly confident in who they are and do not kiss peoples' rear ends. Those are two high character men leading the boys sides.

This makes it pretty clear on who you all are talking about.

Josh, it sounds to me like you are trying to back track. Your first post was directed at a specific coach.

[3 Dollar]

Y'all leave Kevin Froud alone!  He's a wonderful human being and an excellent coach!

If you have a personal problem with him, you should face the problem head on (face-to-face).  And, not get on a public forum and belittle the guy!  Have some intestinal fortitude and present your problem to the source!

[Tigergirl]

Y'all leave Kevin Froud alone!  He's a wonderful human being and an excellent coach!

If you have a personal problem with him, you should face the problem head on (face-to-face).  And, not get on a public forum and belittle the guy!  Have some intestinal fortitude and present your problem to the source!

Agreed!

[Nip/Tusk]

Tigergirl:

--- Quote from: beach bum on February 12, 2016, 10:15:17 pm ---
I have been told, he is a very very pleasant person when he is not coaching, but you mark my words, there will be a day when he does this to the wrong young lady and

he and the school will be in a law suit from her and her parents.  The school administration/school board will then be answering legal questions on how and why they let it

go on for so long.


Some say he is pleasant to be around off the court. I call it being a suck up and especially to all the right people which is all that matters in a small town. That is what is great about Abshier and Edmiston for the two major boys programs. All though they have different personalities they are quietly confident in who they are and do not kiss peoples' rear ends. Those are two high character men leading the boys sides.

--- End quote ---

This makes it pretty clear on who you all are talking about.

Josh, it sounds to me like you are trying to back track. Your first post was directed at a specific coach.



Those quotes you posted were not even from me. I posted in a general thread because there were other posters talking about coaches in the 1-4a thread.
How do you have any idea who I was even talking about? I've seen several coaches yelling at kids this year. I stated before I wasn't even talking about the pg coach.
As far as i know, nobody is making any of these athletes play for them. I was just asking about what style lends itself best to high school boy and girl athletes, hence the thread I started and titled as "coaching styles"
Jeezalou.

Again, mods could we please just trash this whole thread.

[Tigergirl]

Tigergirl:

--- Quote from: beach bum on February 12, 2016, 10:15:17 pm ---
I have been told, he is a very very pleasant person when he is not coaching, but you mark my words, there will be a day when he does this to the wrong young lady and

he and the school will be in a law suit from her and her parents.  The school administration/school board will then be answering legal questions on how and why they let it

go on for so long.


Some say he is pleasant to be around off the court. I call it being a suck up and especially to all the right people which is all that matters in a small town. That is what is great about Abshier and Edmiston for the two major boys programs. All though they have different personalities they are quietly confident in who they are and do not kiss peoples' rear ends. Those are two high character men leading the boys sides.

--- End quote ---

This makes it pretty clear on who you all are talking about.

Josh, it sounds to me like you are trying to back track. Your first post was directed at a specific coach.



Those quotes you posted were not even from me. I posted in a general thread because there were other posters talking about coaches in the 1-4a thread.
How do you have any idea who I was even talking about? I've seen several coaches yelling at kids this year. I stated before I wasn't even talking about the pg coach.
As far as i know, nobody is making any of these athletes play for them. I was just asking about what style lends itself best to high school boy and girl athletes, hence the thread I started and titled as "coaching styles"
Jeezalou.

Again, mods could we please just trash this whole thread.

Clearly they weren't from you, Josh. I was stating that your first comment was definitely talking about a specific instance. But it's clear that the comments afterwards were directed at a certain coach. That's what I was getting at.

[Nip/Tusk]

Ok gotcha.

I don't like seeing anyone run down on a message board and that is why i didnt even name the coach I was referring to.

[Tigergirl]

Ok gotcha.

I don't like seeing anyone run down on a message board and that is why i didnt even name the coach I was referring to.

I don't either. That's why I had something to say when it became apparent who everyone was talking about.