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Elite Programs

Started by Robot Chicken, November 18, 2018, 12:47:44 pm

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Robot Chicken

People there is a difference between elite programs and those who just have "a good group"

Elite Programs:                In Between:               Good Group:
Prescott                           Osceola                     Lamar
Charleston                       Glen Rose                  Smackover
Rison                                                               Danville
Booneville                                                        Clinton
McGehee

So How do you become an elite Program? Have several good groups and win Championships. Osceola is in the in between column because they usually have the best athletes year in and year out but there good is good and when they are bad they are really bad. GR is in that column just because they are the most hated by everyone and for some reason are ready for basketball season even though they aren't good at it. The "Good Group" folks will fade off in the sunset and reappear every couple of years when they have a good groups of kids.

CoolBreeze

Quote from: Robot Chicken on November 18, 2018, 12:47:44 pm
People there is a difference between elite programs and those who just have "a good group"

Elite Programs:                In Between:               Good Group:
Prescott                           Osceola                     Lamar
Charleston                       Glen Rose                  Smackover
Rison                                                               Danville
Booneville                                                        Clinton
McGehee

So How do you become an elite Program? Have several good groups and win Championships. Osceola is in the in between column because they usually have the best athletes year in and year out but there good is good and when they are bad they are really bad. GR is in that column just because they are the most hated by everyone and for some reason are ready for basketball season even though they aren't good at it. The "Good Group" folks will fade off in the sunset and reappear every couple of years when they have a good groups of kids.
Harding Academy belongs on your list somewhere. Two championships and a runner-up in less than 10 years. Plus, some of the times they lost early in the playoffs it was to the ultimate champion (e.g., Charleston at least twice). Last year they lost on a late touchdown to the runner-up.

blackandoldgold

The last time Rison played Harding Academy, the last time Rison was in 3A ball, Rison went to HA in the playoffs. Just before halftime the HA coach was overheard saying that Rison didn't even belong there playing HA. And he was right. HA went on & beat Rison fairly thoroughly that night.

No disrespect for Lamar, but I was hoping HA would have won last Friday night. Then HA could have come to our town & see if they deserved to 'belong there.'

In the world in general & perspiring arts are no different, be careful what you say or do because it can usually come back to bite you in the backside.

Bearcatdad

Quote from: CoolBreeze on November 18, 2018, 01:05:13 pm
Harding Academy belongs on your list somewhere. Two championships and a runner-up in less than 10 years. Plus, some of the times they lost early in the playoffs it was to the ultimate champion (e.g., Charleston at least twice). Last year they lost on a late touchdown to the runner-up.

CLinton should be in the in between in my opinion

panther07

I'm not really sure where HA is on that list. I think you may need to do a bit of research.

HorseFeathers

Blackandoldgold, I'm pretty sure that Harding Doesn't have the same HC, or the same players as then....so what exactly would you prove?

Clara Allen

Ok- i am having an issue with your little chart here.  Are you saying/implying there are no elite teams?
And i agree- HA deserves a look here.

CapnObvious

Exactly what i was wondering 🤔

elmerfudd

Quote from: Clara Allen on November 18, 2018, 03:18:29 pm
Ok- i am having an issue with your little chart here.  Are you saying/implying there are no elite teams?
And i agree- HA deserves a look here.

It is kinda hard to read, but I think he has the following listed as elite teams:

Rison
Booneville
McGehee
Charleston
Prescott

Warriors023

Clinton Danville and Lamar belong in the inbetween. Yes Lamar has a playoff streak and made the quarters 2 of the last 4, but they're not quite elite.

Clara Allen

Ok
Thank you for the clarification.  As bad as I don't want to, i have to agree with the elite list.  And I agree we are in between.  I was around for the 0- for years and have watched the program make great strides.  The future is looking pretty good, but we are a day or so away from elite. 

blackandoldgold

Quote from: HorseFeathers on November 18, 2018, 02:59:17 pm
Blackandoldgold, I'm pretty sure that Harding Doesn't have the same HC, or the same players as then....so what exactly would you prove?
Everything you say is true. So why does it matter to me? I didn't play in that game. Just a fan watching my team lose to a better opponent.

But it does matter to me when my team is so disrespected, especially by the head coach of the program. It would be nice to think a head coach at least publicly would be a little more professional in his comments. The comment came as the teams were heading to their locker rooms at halftime. I've never cared for people that think they are better than others.

You are right. Coaches change. Players change. Fans though, we stay & we remember.

That's part of what makes sports so great. Little stats you file away just for those special moments. So we can see who belongs.

Robot Chicken

agreed. HA was left off. They should be added to the list.

Clara Allen

Quote from: blackandoldgold on November 18, 2018, 04:40:12 pm
Everything you say is true. So why does it matter to me? I didn't play in that game. Just a fan watching my team lose to a better opponent.

But it does matter to me when my team is so disrespected, especially by the head coach of the program. It would be nice to think a head coach at least publicly would be a little more professional in his comments. The comment came as the teams were heading to their locker rooms at halftime. I've never cared for people that think they are better than others.

You are right. Coaches change. Players change. Fans though, we stay & we remember.

That's part of what makes sports so great. Little stats you file away just for those special moments. So we can see who belongs.

Totally agree with your comments about disrespect from other coaches and fans. 
Thinking back over the years, I recall an instance that made my blood boil. There have been several comments made on here as well as in the press and overheard in parking lots about Lamar that adds fuel to the flame with our more volatile fans.  A couple of the elite teams on the list in particular.  I get that's all part of it but still...

Proud Buckaroo

🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

Clara Allen

Quote from: Proud Buckaroo on November 18, 2018, 09:23:24 pm
🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

And the blood boiling has zero to do with Lamar or football, just to clarify.  It was a heifer of a basketball coach talking about my child's team...
She's still coaching and i would no more support her or her team as i would LSU.

Robot Chicken

Correction on the elite Programs:
Lamar, CHG, Danville, Clinton are not elite programs.
This post was started for those fans who thinks their team that has a "good Group" is gonna upset any of the elite teams.
CHG is not gonna upset Booneville, Rison will not get upset by Lamar, Osceola and Smackover can go either way since neither is an elite team. McGehee and Prescott could go either way since both are elite programs. Just wanted to clear things up on that.

xadboy

Quote from: Robot Chicken on November 19, 2018, 01:21:04 pm
Correction on the elite Programs:
Lamar, CHG, Danville, Clinton are not elite programs.
This post was started for those fans who thinks their team that has a "good Group" is gonna upset any of the elite teams.
CHG is not gonna upset Booneville, Rison will not get upset by Lamar, Osceola and Smackover can go either way since neither is an elite team. McGehee and Prescott could go either way since both are elite programs. Just wanted to clear things up on that.
Smackover in my opinion is an elite program. Why do you think they aren't?

Hgalum50

Smackover is a consistently good program now but how are they considered elite? What would make anybody consider them elite? A trip to a state title that they lost?

Hgalum50

Quote from: Robot Chicken on November 19, 2018, 01:21:04 pm
Correction on the elite Programs:
Lamar, CHG, Danville, Clinton are not elite programs.
This post was started for those fans who thinks their team that has a "good Group" is gonna upset any of the elite teams.
CHG is not gonna upset Booneville, Rison will not get upset by Lamar, Osceola and Smackover can go either way since neither is an elite team. McGehee and Prescott could go either way since both are elite programs. Just wanted to clear things up on that.
Nobody eveb stated CHG is an elite program, but they are a consistenly good program that has been there year in and year out. Maybe a few down years, but have made the playoffs and made some runs.

bleudog

Calpreps Dynasty Rankngs Over the Last Five Years

35   Prescott (AR)   3A Region 5   3A   24.6
46   Charleston (AR)   3A Region 1   3A   18.7
51   Booneville (AR)   3A Region 1   3A   16.9
51   Smackover (AR)   3A Region 5   3A   16.9
67   Clinton (AR)   3A Region 2   3A   11.4
69   Rison (AR)   3A Region 6   3A   11.2
77   Glen Rose (Malvern, AR)   3A Region 4   3A   9.2
79   Newport (AR)   3A Region 3   3A   8.8
86   Harding Academy (Searcy, AR)   3A Region 2   3A   7.8
88   Osceola (AR)   3A Region 3   3A   6.3


Calprips Dynasty Rankings From 2003

32   Charleston (AR)   3A Region 1   3A   28.6
35   Booneville (AR)   3A Region 1   3A   25.5
45   Prescott (AR)   3A Region 5   3A   21.9
53   Harding Academy (Searcy, AR)   3A Region 2   3A   19.9
57   Dollarway (Pine Bluff, AR)   3A Region 6   3A   18.7
58   Rison (AR)   3A Region 6   3A   18.3
60   Glen Rose (Malvern, AR)   3A Region 4   3A   18
68   Newport (AR)   3A Region 3   3A   16.8
71   Osceola (AR)   3A Region 3   3A   16
99   Clinton (AR)   3A Region 2   3A   9.5
99   McGehee (AR)   3A Region 6   3A   9.5

http://calpreps.com/2018/ratings/index.html#dynasty

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: xadboy on November 19, 2018, 01:37:04 pm
Smackover in my opinion is an elite program. Why do you think they aren't?
A legend in your on mind.

xadboy

Quote from: Hgalum50 on November 19, 2018, 02:07:44 pm
Smackover is a consistently good program now but how are they considered elite? What would make anybody consider them elite? A trip to a state title that they lost?
Just because they didn't win the title doesn't mean that they're not elite. They consistently have a team capable of winning the title even if they haven't. To me that's elite at the 3A level.

xadboy

Quote from: Oldman on November 19, 2018, 03:19:47 pm
A legend in your on mind.
You know it oldman. Coming from you that's a compliment.

panther07

Quote from: bleudog on November 19, 2018, 02:15:45 pm
Calpreps Dynasty Rankngs Over the Last Five Years

35   Prescott (AR)   3A Region 5   3A   24.6
46   Charleston (AR)   3A Region 1   3A   18.7
51   Booneville (AR)   3A Region 1   3A   16.9
51   Smackover (AR)   3A Region 5   3A   16.9
67   Clinton (AR)   3A Region 2   3A   11.4
69   Rison (AR)   3A Region 6   3A   11.2
77   Glen Rose (Malvern, AR)   3A Region 4   3A   9.2
79   Newport (AR)   3A Region 3   3A   8.8
86   Harding Academy (Searcy, AR)   3A Region 2   3A   7.8
88   Osceola (AR)   3A Region 3   3A   6.3


Calprips Dynasty Rankings From 2003

32   Charleston (AR)   3A Region 1   3A   28.6
35   Booneville (AR)   3A Region 1   3A   25.5
45   Prescott (AR)   3A Region 5   3A   21.9
53   Harding Academy (Searcy, AR)   3A Region 2   3A   19.9
57   Dollarway (Pine Bluff, AR)   3A Region 6   3A   18.7
58   Rison (AR)   3A Region 6   3A   18.3
60   Glen Rose (Malvern, AR)   3A Region 4   3A   18
68   Newport (AR)   3A Region 3   3A   16.8
71   Osceola (AR)   3A Region 3   3A   16
99   Clinton (AR)   3A Region 2   3A   9.5
99   McGehee (AR)   3A Region 6   3A   9.5

http://calpreps.com/2018/ratings/index.html#dynasty

Go all the way to 1983. I'd love to see that.

bleudog

Quote from: panther07 on November 19, 2018, 03:52:22 pm
Go all the way to 1983. I’d love to see that.

I'm afraid LaLaLand didn't acknowledge the rest of the country played football until 2003.

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: xadboy on November 19, 2018, 03:45:40 pm
Just because they didn't win the title doesn't mean that they're not elite. They consistently have a team capable of winning the title even if they haven't. To me that's elite at the 3A level.
I bet you're in favor of runner up banners.

bleudog

Quote from: xadboy on November 19, 2018, 03:45:40 pm
Just because they didn't win the title doesn't mean that they're not elite. They consistently have a team capable of winning the title even if they haven't. To me that's elite at the 3A level.


elmerfudd

I tend to agree that a title is necessary to really be considered elite. Name off the college football teams that are elite, and they all have one thing in common....at least one national title.

Hgalum50

Quote from: xadboy on November 19, 2018, 03:45:40 pm
Just because they didn't win the title doesn't mean that they're not elite. They consistently have a team capable of winning the title even if they haven't. To me that's elite at the 3A level.
So you are telling me I could consider CHG elite because we have had a team that could compete for a title over the last decade.

bleudog

Quote from: Hgalum50 on November 19, 2018, 04:41:46 pm
So you are telling me I could consider CHG elite because we have had a team that could compete for a title over the last decade.


BAMA#16

I think to be an elite high school program, there is criteria, as consistency year after year, deep playoff runs, and yes, state titles, and some programs have fallen off during the years. I'd give Prescott the #1 spot, they've been consistent for a very long time, you could throw in Charleston, McGehee, and a couple others after that.

blackandoldgold


bleudog

November 19, 2018, 07:15:05 pm #33 Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 07:18:17 pm by bleudog
Quote from: blackandoldgold on November 19, 2018, 07:09:47 pm
LOVE this cartoon! Sarcasm at it's best!

Here's another one.



And let's not forget baseball.


Sick Dog

Quote from: bleudog on November 19, 2018, 05:09:53 pm


I think that is exactly what is being said. No CHG is not elite. Yes you have to have a Championship in order to be considered elite. Yall havent even played for one.

blackandoldgold

Quote from: bleudog on November 19, 2018, 07:15:05 pm
Here's another one.



And let's not forget baseball.


Thanks for the cartoons. They are very clever. Sorta reminds me of Gary Larson & his Far Side cartoons. Full of funny satire.

Leo Marvin

Apparently it's hard for teams that have recently moved to 3A to make this list.

elmerfudd

Quote from: Leo Marvin on November 20, 2018, 07:56:39 am
Apparently it's hard for teams that have recently moved to 3A to make this list.

You mean those who moved up from 2A? Because Booneville made it after moving down from 4A.

Robot Chicken

When you have never played for a State Championship then yes its hard to be an elite program.

Hgalum50

Quote from: Robot Chicken on November 20, 2018, 01:14:17 pm
When you have never played for a State Championship then yes its hard to be an elite program.
I would say you at least need to win one to be elite.

xadboy

Quote from: elmerfudd on November 19, 2018, 04:24:46 pm
I tend to agree that a title is necessary to really be considered elite. Name off the college football teams that are elite, and they all have one thing in common....at least one national title.
So Arkansas is an elite program? They did win a national title.

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: xadboy on November 20, 2018, 01:53:55 pm
So Arkansas is an elite program? They did win a national title.
A baseball powerhouse.

elmerfudd

Quote from: xadboy on November 20, 2018, 01:53:55 pm
So Arkansas is an elite program? They did win a national title.

No, that wasn't my point. But they were at one time. There are other criteria to go along with it, and Arkansas couldn't maintain that. All we're saying is, a title is just one box to check off before a team can be considered elite.

bleudog

Quote from: xadboy on November 20, 2018, 01:53:55 pm
So Arkansas is an elite program? They did win a national title.

Title game appearances in this century help.

blackandoldgold

JC more than likely would have another title if Marcus Godfrey had only played offense that night against Shiloh Christian.

xadboy

Quote from: elmerfudd on November 20, 2018, 02:41:04 pm
No, that wasn't my point. But they were at one time. There are other criteria to go along with it, and Arkansas couldn't maintain that. All we're saying is, a title is just one box to check off before a team can be considered elite.
Didn't Glen Rose win a title?

beach bum

Sheesh.... You people have watered down the term elite. That's for sure. 

CoolBreeze

Quote from: blackandoldgold on November 20, 2018, 03:14:34 pm
JC more than likely would have another title if Marcus Godfrey had only played offense that night against Shiloh Christian.
If the dog hadn't stopped to go potty, he would have caught the rabbit.

elmerfudd

Quote from: xadboy on November 20, 2018, 04:33:42 pm
Didn't Glen Rose win a title?

I have no clue. Are you struggling with relevance again?

Hgalum50

Quote from: xadboy on November 20, 2018, 04:33:42 pm
Didn't Glen Rose win a title?
Yes I believe it was in 09 or sumthin like that.

Fox 16 Arkansas Fox 24 Arkansas