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What style offense is best?

Started by HogWildBison2011, October 07, 2011, 11:38:01 pm

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HogWildBison2011

I was just wanting the overall opinion from some coaches. What offense  do you think in todays football culture is the best to use?

no mascot

This is a bogus question because it is far too vague.

HogWildBison2011

Quote from: no mascot on October 08, 2011, 12:19:12 am
This is a bogus question because it is far too vague.
Well I'll try and remedy that. I've always heard that you have to be able to pass to get anywhere on offense. But I just watched a game tonight that showcased 2 double wing offenses that did nothing but smash mouth football. Do you think the double wing is efficient, do you believe some styles are better? (spread,multiple,pro,ect)

no mascot

it depends on the kids you have. Do you have boys who can pass and catch, or even more importantly pass block?

How do you want your defense to play? how many spread teams have you heard described on the radio as being able to put up a ton of points but their defense isn't as efficient. This is not a coincidence. Defense emulates offense.

HogWildBison2011

Quote from: no mascot on October 08, 2011, 11:07:03 am
it depends on the kids you have. Do you have boys who can pass and catch, or even more importantly pass block?

How do you want your defense to play? how many spread teams have you heard described on the radio as being able to put up a ton of points but their defense isn't as efficient. This is not a coincidence. Defense emulates offense.
I agree. lol Now that's the stuff i was looking for!! I have always thought of a spread type offense to open up a lot of running lanes on the inside compared to other styles/formations. But then again the double wing marathon i watched last night had so many 10 or 20 or 30 yard break aways running it straight down their throat with 7-8 guys stacking the box on D. Some of those double wing maneuvers look very complex, one missed block would be disastrous but hardly ever seen any taken down in the back field. I guess my main conflict I'm having is what is more consistant.

whippersnapper

im a very big fan of the dw offense. If you dont have anybody that can throw a lick or run its the perfect offense. But i am going to quote coach Campbell from his 5a topic. "It doesn't matter what you run, fball is a game of timing and execution. It also helps when the system is simple and don't confuse them. And the kids must also believe in the coach that he knows the offense and that he is gonna call the right plays."    Not word for word but close enough. If you got a guy that can sling and a someone to catch. Then I say balance it out and throw it some. But if you are in a situation that your trying to build a program and have very little athletes then i say dw is the way to go.

HogWildBison2011

Quote from: bearcatwhippersnapper on October 09, 2011, 08:02:31 pm
I'm a very big fan of the dw offense. If you don't have anybody that can throw a lick or run its the perfect offense. But i am going to quote coach Campbell from his 5a topic. "It doesn't matter what you run, fball is a game of timing and execution. It also helps when the system is simple and don't confuse them. And the kids must also believe in the coach that he knows the offense and that he is gonna call the right plays."    Not word for word but close enough. If you got a guy that can sling and a someone to catch. Then I say balance it out and throw it some. But if you are in a situation that your trying to build a program and have very little athletes then i say dw is the way to go.
I agree. In the England & Carlisle game England did nothing but a dw toss and sweeps the whole game. It was extremely simple but hard to stop when they got their blocks.

whippersnapper

Yes sir, very simple offense but tough to stop. Nearly impossible to get tendencies from it to. Wanna say we run this formation when its third and short? Well to bad, whole offense is heal to heal splits the whole night. My 2 favorite plays are the double handoff and fb trap.

redbug

IMO the best offense is what the coach can teach the most effectively. Coaches over the years have debated what offense is best, the consensus is what you know. All offenses have pros and cons. There have probably been more state championships won with the wing t but in recent years it has moved more towards a version of the spread. doesn't mean spread is better just that the coaches teaching those offenses knew how to coach it effectively enough to win games and had athletes to carry out the system.

Russ PhD

It is not the offense (X's and O's)  that makes it successful.  It is the ability of the coaches to teach it and call it during the game.  It also comes down to believing that the offense will work if executed properly.  If you are changing because it's popular or tough to defend, then the kids get the idea that you don't believe in the offense either.

http://7on7football.blogspot.com/2008/05/matter-of-belief.html

Lions84

I have always loved the Wing -T because of it's game to game adaptability to what you have each game and season.

TruthBeTold5

The Power Eye is my personal favorite!  Run it down their throats and pass it when the secondary falls asleep!

bdubyab60

I like watching the sread offense when its ran right, and you have a QB that can throw accuratley. I see to many teams running the spread that that dont have the athletes to run the offense.

Strong ran a form of it last year but had a superior athlete to run it with Dixon.

For most teams a solid running attack is best though. You can control the clock on a spread team, and wear them down.

The wing T has been one the most efficent offenses for a long time. Didnt Barton run it to an 88 game win streak.

Lions84

Pappa Frank at Barton told me he stayed with the Wing T because it was adaptable to what kind of players you had each year.

Dr. Defense

Quote from: bdubyab60 on October 25, 2012, 09:47:53 pm
I like watching the sread offense when its ran right, and you have a QB that can throw accuratley. I see to many teams running the spread that that dont have the athletes to run the offense.

Strong ran a form of it last year but had a superior athlete to run it with Dixon.

For most teams a solid running attack is best though. You can control the clock on a spread team, and wear them down.

The wing T has been one the most efficent offenses for a long time. Didnt Barton run it to an 88 game win streak.

They rode it to a 63 game streak.....and yes Barton was always Wing-T under coach Mclellan and Lions has a good point that type of offense is best IMO especially at smaller schools because you can adapt to what you have every year and still be successful

bdubyab60

I knew they won a bunch of games with it. I may have been thinking of South Panola MS, with the 88 I just remember reading that number in one of the record books somewhere. 63 in a row is still a bunch of ballgames.

Dr. Defense

yes 63 is a very impressive feat indeed.....one that will not be replicated for a while

Lions84

I got to watch that streak and it was something to behold.  Pappa Frank had those Bears humming like a fine tuned machine.  Shoot I was in WM when Rison stopped the streak in the state championship game.

Dr. Defense

Haha yea and 10 years later Rison ended another streak in War Memorial.....that would be the Shiloh Christian Saints

33TRAP

Old fashioned Power I baby!  Smash mouth style!

Nemesis

When I played, teams that ran the wing were troubling.  Spins, traps and cutting lanes.  Lineman started playing peek a boo trying to find the ball carrier instead of plugging a gap. 

We were playing Hughes back in the 87, I believe,  and they ran it.  We simplified our base 53 defense.  Lineman plugged gaps and piled up and DE's would string out and crash the lead blockers on sweeps as soon as they committed up field. Linebackers matched up with the backs and that was their read all night.  Back side help always looked for the "wall" if the trap or sweep came back. It hamstrung the Wing and made it simple for us.  We ran the Power I and Off Set I.  I was the FB/ DE/LB and remember some wood being laid that game from both teams.

new2karting

A couple of years ago I officiated as England and Carlisle played each other.  Both coaches were good friends, came from a previous staff they both coached at, and I believe were in their first year.  They ran the same exact offense.  I was thinking overtime until we got a few series in.  I believe the final score ended up being 44-8.  The kids were even amazed as it was like playing in the mirror, one kid told me.  The difference in the outcome though was the athletes.

As far as offenses, and defenses, and I have seen a bunch of them, you have to have the athletes for the scheme, and you have to coach fundamentals.  Some schools dominate with the Veer, the I, Spread, Pro Set, Single back, Wishbone, Wing-T, etc. 

I mean how could you pass the ball a lot with D-Mac, Jones and Hillis in your backfield.  Conversely, if you were Ryan Mallett with Wright, Adams, Williams why do you try to run a bunch? 

There is something to say about a good playcalling balance, fundamentals and execution, and schools that do well at both when they need to are highly successful.

TIGER101

Wingt/spread combination.  Getting better every year at pg

Lions84

Yep though I have not seen any PG film the Program at the HS I work at uses several Wing T plays ran out of a spead formation using the Slot WR as WB.

soldier


HorseFeathers

Pistol....Brought hector back to the playoffs this year, and gaining popularity in other places...like the NFL

KOJACK

Quote from: HF on January 28, 2013, 09:43:54 pm
Pistol....Brought hector back to the playoffs this year, and gaining popularity in other places...like the NFL
Agreed, I think you will see a lot of high school teams moving this direction in the future.

HorseFeathers

From what I seen, you can still run 4 wide spread with this...and still have the option of a power run game if you pull a guy in to block. I've been running with it on the xbox for a few years now...

KOJACK

Quote from: HF on January 29, 2013, 11:48:33 am
From what I seen, you can still run 4 wide spread with this...and still have the option of a power run game if you pull a guy in to block. I've been running with it on the xbox for a few years now...
It makes it easy for kids to remember how to line up. Your 2 ends will always be the outside receivers, then you can do what you want to with the extra 2 backs in the backfield. You could go doubles or trips, or just about anything. It puts a defense in a bind how it can go from power running to wide open spread with just motion or shifts.

whippersnapper

I like the pistol and I think its a very good offense. But its similar to the I formation though. If you dont have a stud running back to run the ball your almost up a creek without a paddle.

goinsm


ReddieKnightTrojan

Quote from: goinsm on May 05, 2016, 08:39:46 am
:)
Offensively, the spread is a risky formation. Passing on first down sometimes puts you behind the chains. However, I took a small school to the playoffs running it. Mainly because I had a mobile QB and a receiver that would catch anything within 10 yards. My OL couldn't pass block their way out of a paper bag, that's where the mobile QB came in. I took my fastest offensive lineman and moved him to runningback. We were getting killed the first 3 game, but we were playing way above our conference competition level. During those games I worked on my Pro I and it helped us win a pivotal game later in the season. The first conference game (i.e. our same talent level) we dominated. Our receiver had 5 catches for 200 yards and 4 TDs and that converted lineman had 126 yards on the ground.
Defensively, we had to play the aforementioned pivotal game against a WingT team. We worked all week (on the advice of my DCs friend in Oklahoma) on a 6 man front. We did pursuit drills, gap responsibilities, etc all week, and in the game...they blocked down and kicked out all the way down the field and laughed all the way to the endzone. We went back to the 4-3 and smothered them with stunts and blitzes and won the game that put us in the playoffs.

I agree with most things said here. You must know your offense, their defense, and your personnel. After that, the boys must execute.

HogWildBison2011

It's been quite a while since I commented on this post. I am nearing the later end of my college education, and hopefully, I will be joining the coaching ranks within the next few changing of the seasons. I have done some extensive research on different offenses/defenses and reached a decision on what I like the best. I appreciate all the feedback in this post.

I do think I will run more of a power run game oriented offense with efficient use of PA. I will even mix in some pistol/shotgun with tempo when I feel like we have an opposing team on their heels. I have settled on a base 4-3 and alternating to a bigger front when playing run heavy/option teams. I feel like I have good concepts on proper techniques on how to teach all of these ideas. I have thoughts for a good tackling circuit to use, and I plan on incorporating the whole "smart swarm" style defense that I keep hearing from a particular in state D1 team. I'm open to any suggestions for defensive techniques and drills. Feel free to PM me! Thank you guys in advance.

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