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Coaching Endorsement

Started by Justafan42, March 19, 2008, 10:41:11 pm

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parpar

Correct.  The ADE determines what is appropriate for an endorsement to be placed on a license.  The AAA determines what kind of endorsements, if any, it's members coaches must have.  And, don't forget, the AAA is not a building and a few folks in Little Rock.  it is a voting representative from high school and every junior/middle school in the state.  Your local voting representative, usually the principal, not a coach, has as much to say about these rules as anyone becasue her/his vote counts the same as anyone else.

tommyt

I was told by the ADE that anyone with a health/pe certification (whether through traditional or non-traditional) before last year, automatically had a coaching endorsement without taking the above mentioned classes and/or tests.  However, last year, that changed, and those new teachers seeking their licenses, even that teach pe/health, must get their endoresement as well.

And as for the original topic, most of our surrounding states don't require any sort of coaching endorsement (MO/TX).  However, I, as a coach, certainly am in favor of it because it means less competition and better jobs for us (as someone mentioned earlier.)

philgoodallday

If you have a PE degree, the classes required for the endorsement are built into the curriculum.

If your degree is in another area, you probably have to add those classes.  You can usually get away with adding most of them as electives, so you're not really taking many more classes.

Spygate

I my finishing my endorsement right now and it is 25 hours. It was 13 and the ADE changed it. Plus your have to take the Praxis II in the Physical Education Content. Now they are trying to make it where you do even need one! All of this work for nothing!

McKnz

Quote from: tommyt on April 23, 2008, 01:01:53 pm
  However, I, as a coach, certainly am in favor of it because it means less competition and better jobs for us (as someone mentioned earlier.)

I can understand your viewpoint, however do you not feel that having an opportunity for more coaches will help the quality of Arkansas high school sports and therefore make you more marketable?

tigers95

I know we need qualifications in education and sports, but with no set standards from one university to the next on what determines a certified coach, what is the rationale for an endorsement?  A coaching friend of mine said that these endorsement and what determines an endorsement vary from university to university.  That makes no sense.

McKnz

I agree. That makes no sense whatsoever. But, I thought that last year they all adopted a "uniform" course program? Maybe I'm wrong.

Cambodian Midget

Quote from: SteelHog on April 16, 2008, 07:38:58 pm
Here is the problem I have with the whole deal is how difficult it is for someone that is already a teacher to get an endorsement while they work. I'm on an ALP, and I passed the praxis II on the first try before I took any classes. The only time I can take classes is over the summer, and its difficult to take the classes u need because they don't offer them. I'm working on mine at UA-FAY. The part that really made me mad was how I missed the cut off for the old requirements by a semester. UA-FAY coaching endorsement went from 6 hrs to 24 hrs May 2007. Thats a big jump.

Don't feel to bad, I missed it by a semester too.

A summer semester at that. 

I couldn't justify staying another year in school to get a certification.  I had to give up wanting to coach.

Maybe one day I'll be in a financial situation to be able to do what and go back to school to get the endorsement. 

Justafan42

I'm getting conflicking reports Now. A student at UCA, whose mother is a Sup, said that the vote was Wednesday and it passed. He explained it that there will be 2 online courses through the State Depart. They will be worth 10 hrs each.

Then I called the Ed depart. and they didn't know about the vote and said it really doesn't matter what the AAA wants for endorsements because they set the standards and didn't plan on changing anything at this time.

Who knows?

johnharrison

More likely to have an untrained idiot kill someone football or basketball?

SteelHog

I emailed Lance Taylor (AAA)  today. He said the governing body is meeting in august to vote on a new proposal. The proposal would allow for pe majors, those with coaching endorsemen, or those that take online courses through NHFS(?). The nhfs deal is two online course that are only $60 a piece. Has anyone heard this yet?

johnharrison


Justafan42

I heard about the online test, but the D ED has the last word as to what you are certified to teach. Does this include coaching responsibilities?

parpar

No.  The AAA membership sets the requirment for coaching.  The two courses are a principals of coaching course and a first aid course.  It is a programmed study, with a test submitted at the end.

Word of caution - keep your confirmations of your tests.  I did mine back in 96, then in 2006 when I was aksed to coach again, they couldn't find a record of it so I had to take a the course again.

Justafan42

Where does the Praxis II come into play? 0091,0092,0856

McKnz

parpar...that might have been b/c they only keep Praxis records for 10 years. Maybe that's why?

parpar

It wasn't Praxis, it was the NFHS Coaching and First Aid Courses.  Back then it was a weekend seminar, then you mailed your test to Kansas.  I got mine back and coached three years of softball without a question, even in the state torunament.  Then, 6 years later, when they asked me to coach golf, they said they didn't have a record of the test, but they did of my attendance at the course.  Of course, I thought my coaching days were through, so I didn't bother to keep the record.  Live and learn!

Justafan42

The main vote is still in Aug. It will be in conjunction with the Sup-Prin convention in LR. The other "vote" was a district meeting where this was brought up and 90-95% of those in attendence were for doing away with the University issued endorcement.

Obviously, This is to allow the admin the ability to hire teacher positions (math, science) and then have them go to the Federation Web site and take these 2 courses to fill a coaching spot.

harris45

What is the website to take this online test?

parpar

Try:

www.nfhs.org

That doesn't sound right, but that might get you going in the right direction.  My books are at home and I will check tonight and see if they have a more exact address.

I wouldn't do anything until after the vote in August.  I know what one poster says, but the people I talked to that actually will vote on it in August are not going to support it.  They have had issues with people going through the non-traditional programs in the past and they like that security blanket of certification.

McKnz

May 07, 2008, 09:28:17 pm #70 Last Edit: May 07, 2008, 09:32:50 pm by McKnz
edit

AAAspectator

How will this effect people in the non-traditional program? Can anyone with a degree coach now or will they have to complete that program first? I know of one or two schools with "coaches" in the NTL program in NWA. I would think that you would have to have an education degree or it's equivalent to do this.

parpar

If it passes, and that is a big IF, it is my understanding that you will be allowed to coach football, basketball and/or track if you complete the two online courses, coaching principles and first aid, whether you are in the traditional certification program or the non-traditional program.  Under current rules, you can already coach the other sports if you complete these two on-line courses.  Of course, you can complete the college coursework also and be certified.

McKnz

Will it need to be a first aid course from an Arkansas university, I wonder?

parpar

I think if it is certififed by the state Dept of Ed, it could be from out of state, just like other courses are accepted.  What's the difference in first aid taught at Henderson and one taught at University of Texas?  I know there is a such thing as reciprocity among states.  My daughter, in elelmentary, is moving to TN and they will accept her Arkansas License.  Sometime in the next three years, to get it renewed, she has to tak Tennessee history.

harris45

Question...  I have a pe/health degree, took t & p of basketball and baseball/softball.  I did not take the praxis for coaching endorsement.  Am I still certified to coach.  I thought I had taken that test but it did not show up on my license.  That was 5 yrs ago.

Justafan42

You can coach everthing but FB, BB, and TR.

It was explained to me that the proposal was originally set up for giving current employed instructors the ability to take these 2 courses and start coaching for the district they are already in.

I then asked what was going to keep the math teacher that takes the 2 courses, coaches 1 year at ABC HS from leaving and moving up the coaching ladder. I didn't get a very good answer.

Then it was explained that it was for employed teachers only and not for people getting their degree and endorsements like me.

Then I asked what would keep a district from hiring me then
letting me go and take the courses then. I didn't get a very good answer.

I also asked if there were any courses that someone could have taken during college that would sub for the Principles of Coaching and First Aid. You guessed it, I didn't get a very good answer.

I've come to the conclusion that 1. There isn't a set program (now) to get your CE. 2. The AAA and the ADE aren't on the same page. 3. If it does change, no one knows how the new program is going to work either. 4. This makes my head hurt.

McKnz

#5. Get used to it, my friend

harris45

OK.  I just looked at my Praxis scores.  I have passed the Physical Education: Content Knowledge 0091 so why does my license not have Coaching Endorsement on it?

parpar

http://arkedu.state.ar.us/commemos/custview.cgi?filename=3820&sortby=date_createdx

A little off-topic but of some interest, particularly if you have an out of state license.

AAAspectator

so if this passes, a guy with an accounting degree is able to coach in high school? Watch for some private schools to get creative with this. how can the state or aaa allow someone without an education degree be involved in education? They have been complaining about wasting money on athletics, now it will open the door for more coaches. The AAA is dooming itself and alot of schools

parpar

That can happen now, if the person goes and takes the coaching theory courses requirements, gets a non-traditional license.   In fact, a very successful second-year basketball coach in the 5A did exactly that.  He teaches business at school.  His teams also happen to have worn 35+ games in his first two years. 

Justafan42

You also need 0092, and 0856 for your coaching endorsement. 0856 is basically the same as 0091 then 0092 is a Methods and Analysis, constructed answer test.


AAAspectator

Quote from: parpar on May 09, 2008, 03:35:18 pm
That can happen now, if the person goes and takes the coaching theory courses requirements, gets a non-traditional license.   In fact, a very successful second-year basketball coach in the 5A did exactly that.  He teaches business at school.  His teams also happen to have worn 35+ games in his first two years. 
I'm not saying that can't happen. What I'm worried about as a sports fan is schools hiring coaches who can't teach or handle a classroom and then some senator in LR butting in about mis-use of funds.

Justafan42

I was announced today that in September the passing score will go up quit a bit for the Praxis II 0091. If you are thinking of taking the taking it I would get it out of the way now.

redseam12

Has 0091 always been available? I took 0092 in 8/05 and thought that was the coaching test.

R. A.™

According to the Department of Ed. the codes ( I think it is 286 and 287) which are p-8 PE/ Leisure/Health and 7-12 PE/Leisure/ Health are now used as coaching endorsement also.

0091 test has been around for as long as I can remember, I had to take it in 1990s, then they have had to bring in more tests.

R. A.™

Quote from: AAAspectator on May 09, 2008, 03:22:32 pm
so if this passes, a guy with an accounting degree is able to coach in high school? Watch for some private schools to get creative with this. how can the state or aaa allow someone without an education degree be involved in education? They have been complaining about wasting money on athletics, now it will open the door for more coaches. The AAA is dooming itself and alot of schools

There are several teachers in the state that have gone the Non-Traditional Licensure route and are teaching right now and some as stated earlier are very successful. As long as there are teacher shortages throughout the state, I don't think that a senator will get involved.


R. A.™

Some states only require testing in your Major and not your minor. Say for instances you are PE with Biology....Arkansas requires you to have taken the PE test and if you want to teach Biology you need the biology tests passed. One of our neighboring states only require test in your Major and if you have 18 hours or more in another field you are eligible for certifcation in that field also. So if you have a major in PE and have passed the test and you have 18 hours in science, you can be eligible for a standard teaching licence in PE and in science. When you take that and turn it in to Arkansas they will grant you both fields. This is how a lot of teachers in Arkansas are able to continue on. I do know that Arkansas is starting to crack down on this. Colleges are changing their rules to avoid this also.

I think that is why you are seeing changes in legislation. But you would be surprised how many teachers are out there teaching that have used the route above to stay in Arkansas

philgoodallday

Quote from: harris45 on May 09, 2008, 08:45:53 am
OK.  I just looked at my Praxis scores.  I have passed the Physical Education: Content Knowledge 0091 so why does my license not have Coaching Endorsement on it?

I spoke to the Education Department at ASU to make sure, but if you have completed all of their requirements for the coaching endorsement and have passed the Content test, you just have to send in a form to get it added to your license. 

Check with your University.  They will send in the form for you.

SteelHog

Anybody heard any information about the upcoming AAA vote on the endorsement?

R. A.™

June 25, 2008, 03:57:22 pm #91 Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 03:59:18 pm by R. A.™
Quote from: SteelHog on June 23, 2008, 11:26:49 pm
Anybody heard any information about the upcoming AAA vote on the endorsement?

Huh? What can the AAA do? It is ultimately thr department of education that has the final yay or nay.

skipster

Quote from: R. A.™ on May 29, 2008, 03:52:08 pm
Quote from: AAAspectator on May 09, 2008, 03:22:32 pm
so if this passes, a guy with an accounting degree is able to coach in high school? Watch for some private schools to get creative with this. how can the state or aaa allow someone without an education degree be involved in education? They have been complaining about wasting money on athletics, now it will open the door for more coaches. The AAA is dooming itself and alot of schools

There are several teachers in the state that have gone the Non-Traditional Licensure route and are teaching right now and some as stated earlier are very successful. As long as there are teacher shortages throughout the state, I don't think that a senator will get involved.



When my wife got her MAT at UA, quite a few of her classmates said they were taking their bachelors in education and teaching via non-traditional licensing. 

The education program at UA tells you that the only true way to teacher licensure in Arkansas is through UA's MAT program (but we all know that's not accurate).  The MAT (Master of Arts in Teaching) program includes a full year of unpaid internship (student teaching).  Many people who got their bachelors in education opted to go into teaching right away and get their license through non-traditional licensure, so they wouldn't have to go a year without a paycheck.

In my experience with the AAA and coaching endorsements, I don't think they keep tabs on things very well, or they don't apply punishments equally.  There's plenty of coaches without endorsements, coahces that don't meet the pay account rules (must be paid from teacher pay account), and volunteer coaches who get paid by the school, though they don't work there, etc., etc.

The AAA has a bunch of rules, but they don't enforce them well at all.  Besides that, AAA seems more worried about money and procedure than student-athletes.  By the way they condct themselves, you would think that high school athletics existed for Lance Taylor, not for high school kids.

R. A.™

Skipster...It is not the AAA to keep tabs on endorsements, the department of Education does that.

I never heard of a full year of unpaid internship for the MAT. I'm currently taking grad classes at another Arkansas college with several in the MAT program that are full time and fully paid teachers. Matter of fact, one of the requirements to get into our MAT program is to be recommended by the superintendent that hired you as a employee.

skipster

My wife graduated from UA Fayetteville with her MAT in May 2007.  She did a full school year (August through June) internship that was unpaid.  I was a full time grad student getting my masters and worked two part-time jobs, my graduate assistantship, and volunteer coached wrestling (unpaid) to get us by.

I wish her internship was paid -- that would have made a lot easier.

One question, though.  If the Department of Education handles endorsements, what is AAA's role?  Maybe I wasn't clear in what I said the first time, though.  AAA has certain rules about endorsements and what sports you can coach, like needing an endorsement to coach FB, basketball, or track.  What I was trying to get at is that I don't think AAA checks up regularly to make sure that coaches in those sports have those endorsements.  AAA also has rules regarding training and pay for volunteer coaches, and I don't think they monitor that, either.

I have seen coaching situations where a number of rules were violated, and the AAA did nothing about it.

R. A.™

Skipster if you are talking about an actual endorsement you have to be certified through the department of education to coach..

The AAA has rules regarding volunteer coaches and non-certified coaches, as far as what they can and can not do.

Wow, one year unpaid internship?!?!? That is horrible!

parpar

I read the actual proposal Sunday.  It would allow licensed teachers to coach ANY sport if they have completed the college coursework OR the AAA sanctioned coaching courses.  Still would not allow non-licensed teachers to be volunteers in football, basketball or track by just completing the AAA sanctioned courses.

R. A.™

Where is a link to the proposal?

parpar

I saw it the old fashioned way - printed on paper.

philgoodallday

Okay, am I reading this correctly?  Is this to say that either having the endorsement or having the two classes that AAA provides are now equally satisfactory?

And, when does the official vote take place?

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