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Official Shortage

Started by Busman, January 18, 2016, 09:47:51 am

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Busman

Two high school players blindside an umpire. An Oregon State basketball player trips an official.  Wonder why there is a shortage?

Lions84

Yep and the lack of overall pay and respect for the game.

arreferee

According to the AOA online directory, there are 878 registered football officials in the state (if I counted correctly).  Let's say 800 of those are active.  I know several that either are retired who are still on the list or don't work high school anymore so a guess of 800 should be fairly close.

Based on the comments on this site ;D, I would venture to guess that about half (400) of the officials in the state are "good."  If half of the "good" officials (200) in the state would bring in one new official every four years, in 8 years, we would have 400 new "good" officials in the state.  If we would all do this, there wouldn't be a shortage of officials in Arkansas.  It shouldn't be hard to find one new official every four years if we just put in a little bit of effort. 

Lions84

Quote from: arreferee on January 18, 2016, 01:43:01 pm
According to the AOA online directory, there are 878 registered football officials in the state (if I counted correctly).  Let's say 800 of those are active.  I know several that either are retired who are still on the list or don't work high school anymore so a guess of 800 should be fairly close.

Based on the comments on this site ;D, I would venture to guess that about half (400) of the officials in the state are "good."  If half of the "good" officials (200) in the state would bring in one new official every four years, in 8 years, we would have 400 new "good" officials in the state.  If we would all do this, there wouldn't be a shortage of officials in Arkansas.  It shouldn't be hard to find one new official every four years if we just put in a little bit of effort. 

That is a solid point and a plausible plan now getting put into action is a whole other Question.

george7244

January 21, 2016, 02:39:31 pm #4 Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 02:53:19 pm by george7244
IMHO the problem isn't recruiting new officials but retaining the officials already calling. They come in and call for several years and realize that if they are not in the loop out of the AAA office their playoff games will never get past a second or third round playoff game at most. Most are not willing to osculate a certain anal orfice for a game. If anyone doesn't think that there ia a tight little clique at the top they are either blind or in the clique. The latter most likely. Until there is a new head of officials in the AAA office the retention of good quality officials will continue to wane. Before anyone says this is sour grapes i have been out of officiating for several years. The politics didn't run me off but two bad knees and two heart attacks did.

arreferee

Quote from: george7244 on January 21, 2016, 02:39:31 pm
IMHO the problem isn't recruiting new officials but retaining the officials already calling. They come in and call for several years and realize that if they are not in the loop out of the AAA office their playoff games will never get past a second or third round playoff game at most. Most are not willing to osculate a certain anal orfice for a game. If anyone doesn't think that there ia a tight little clique at the top they are either blind or in the clique. The latter most likely. Until there is a new head of officials in the AAA office the retention of good quality officials will continue to wane. Before anyone says this is sour grapes i have been out of officiating for several years. The politics didn't run me off but two bad knees and two heart attacks did.

I'm not sure I agree with this.  I don't want to debate whether or not there politics are involved, but I've never known anyone who has quit officiating because he didn't get a state championship game.  I've known several officials who would love to have one but none who have actually hung it up because of that.  You are a great example.  It's obvious that you are/were very upset that you couldn't get more playoff games than you did, but that didn't cause you to quit altogether.

george7244

Quote from: arreferee on January 21, 2016, 04:21:47 pm
Quote from: george7244 on January 21, 2016, 02:39:31 pm
IMHO the problem isn't recruiting new officials but retaining the officials already calling. They come in and call for several years and realize that if they are not in the loop out of the AAA office their playoff games will never get past a second or third round playoff game at most. Most are not willing to osculate a certain anal orfice for a game. If anyone doesn't think that there ia a tight little clique at the top they are either blind or in the clique. The latter most likely. Until there is a new head of officials in the AAA office the retention of good quality officials will continue to wane. Before anyone says this is sour grapes i have been out of officiating for several years. The politics didn't run me off but two bad knees and two heart attacks did.

I'm not sure I agree with this.  I don't want to debate whether or not there politics are involved, but I've never known anyone who has quit officiating because he didn't get a state championship game.  I've known several officials who would love to have one but none who have actually hung it up because of that.  You are a great example.  It's obvious that you are/were very upset that you couldn't get more playoff games than you did, but that didn't cause you to quit altogether.
.        Go back and re-read what i wrote. I never said they quit because they didn't get a state championship game. I said they quit because of the politics and i got this information firsthand by talking toa bunch who hung it up. I didn't care much about the playoffs because by the time the regular season was over the games were not worth the pain

Busman

I have advocated for years every white hat take one new official each year, work with them, put them in the 7,8, and freshman games by rotating one member of your crew out weekly.  I think you would be amazed the difference it would make.

whosyourdaddy

In Tennessee where I know live.  they have the normal 5 man crew AND a paid official that works the clock from the sideline.  the clock official is a 1st yr guy who works behind the line judge and keeps clock on field by remote.  He is part of the game and is PAID.. the next yr this official is integrated in with crews who are assigned by position not by crew, that way he is assured some games as an on field official.  I was told by an assignor that it works great because they get 40-50 new guys a yr and they don't get run off after one yr for lack of assignments..

arreferee

Quote from: george7244 on January 21, 2016, 05:06:34 pm
Quote from: arreferee on January 21, 2016, 04:21:47 pm
Quote from: george7244 on January 21, 2016, 02:39:31 pm
IMHO the problem isn't recruiting new officials but retaining the officials already calling. They come in and call for several years and realize that if they are not in the loop out of the AAA office their playoff games will never get past a second or third round playoff game at most. Most are not willing to osculate a certain anal orfice for a game. If anyone doesn't think that there ia a tight little clique at the top they are either blind or in the clique. The latter most likely. Until there is a new head of officials in the AAA office the retention of good quality officials will continue to wane. Before anyone says this is sour grapes i have been out of officiating for several years. The politics didn't run me off but two bad knees and two heart attacks did.

I'm not sure I agree with this.  I don't want to debate whether or not there politics are involved, but I've never known anyone who has quit officiating because he didn't get a state championship game.  I've known several officials who would love to have one but none who have actually hung it up because of that.  You are a great example.  It's obvious that you are/were very upset that you couldn't get more playoff games than you did, but that didn't cause you to quit altogether.
.        Go back and re-read what i wrote. I never said they quit because they didn't get a state championship game. I said they quit because of the politics and i got this information firsthand by talking toa bunch who hung it up. I didn't care much about the playoffs because by the time the regular season was over the games were not worth the pain

OK.  Maybe they didn't quit because they didn't get a state championship game, but your quote was "They come in and call for several years and realize that if they are not in the loop out of the AAA office their playoff games will never get past a second or third round playoff game at most."  So, it sounds like they quit because the politics wouldn't allow them to get past the 2nd or 3rd round.  It's basically the same thing.  Personally, I've never known anyone to hang it up because of this.

george7244

Quote from: arreferee on January 25, 2016, 10:15:12 am
Quote from: george7244 on January 21, 2016, 05:06:34 pm
Quote from: arreferee on January 21, 2016, 04:21:47 pm
Quote from: george7244 on January 21, 2016, 02:39:31 pm
IMHO the problem isn't recruiting new officials but retaining the officials already calling. They come in and call for several years and realize that if they are not in the loop out of the AAA office their playoff games will never get past a second or third round playoff game at most. Most are not willing to osculate a certain anal orfice for a game. If anyone doesn't think that there ia a tight little clique at the top they are either blind or in the clique. The latter most likely. Until there is a new head of officials in the AAA office the retention of good quality officials will continue to wane. Before anyone says this is sour grapes i have been out of officiating for several years. The politics didn't run me off but two bad knees and two heart attacks did
Quote from: arreferee on January 25, 2016, 10:15:12 am
Quote from: george7244 on January 21, 2016, 05:06:34 pm
Quote from: arreferee on January 21, 2016, 04:21:47 pm
Quote from: george7244 on January 21, 2016, 02:39:31 pm
IMHO the problem isn't recruiting new officials but retaining the officials already calling. They come in and call for several years and realize that if they are not in the loop out of the AAA office their playoff games will never get past a second or third round playoff game at most. Most are not willing to osculate a certain anal orfice for a game. If anyone doesn't think that there ia a tight little clique at the top they are either blind or in the clique. The latter most likely. Until there is a new head of officials in the AAA office the retention of good quality officials will continue to wane. Before anyone says this is sour grapes i have been out of officiating for several years. The politics didn't run me off but two bad knees and two heart attacks did.

I'm not sure I agree with this.  I don't want to debate whether or not there politics are involved, but I've never known anyone who has quit officiating because he didn't get a state championship game.  I've known several officials who would love to have one but none who have actually hung it up because of that.  You are a great example.  It's obvious that you are/were very upset that you couldn't get more playoff games than you did, but that didn't cause you to quit altogether.
.        Go back and re-read what i wrote. I never said they quit because they didn't get a state championship game. I said they quit because of the politics and i got this information firsthand by talking toa bunch who hung it up. I didn't care much about the playoffs because by the time the regular season was over the games were not worth the pain

OK.  Maybe they didn't quit because they didn't get a state championship game, but your quote was "They come in and call for several years and realize that if they are not in the loop out of the AAA office their playoff games will never get past a second or third round playoff game at most."  So, it sounds like they quit because the politics wouldn't allow them to get past the 2nd or 3rd round.  It's basically the same thing.  Personally, I've never known anyone to hang it up because of this.

I'm not sure I agree with this.  I don't want to debate whether or not there politics are involved, but I've never known anyone who has quit officiating because he didn't get a state championship game.  I've known several officials who would love to have one but none who have actually hung it up because of that.  You are a great example.  It's obvious that you are/were very upset that you couldn't get more playoff games than you did, but that didn't cause you to quit altogether.
.        Go back and re-read what i wrote. I never said they quit because they didn't get a state championship game. I said they quit because of the politics and i got this information firsthand by talking toa bunch who hung it up. I didn't care much about the playoffs because by the time the regular season was over the games were not worth the pain

OK.  Maybe they didn't quit because they didn't get a state championship game, but your quote was "They come in and call for several years and realize that if they are not in the loop out of the AAA office their playoff games will never get past a second or third round playoff game at most."  So, it sounds like they quit because the politics wouldn't allow them to get past the 2nd or 3rd round.  It's basically the same thing.  Personally, I've never known anyone to hang it up because of this.
. I know some that have quit because of the politics. Your position may be that there is no politics involved but my position is that there is.  I imagine we will never agree on this and thats ok too

arreferee

Quote from: george7244 on January 21, 2016, 05:06:34 pm
Quote from: george7244 on January 21, 2016, 05:06:34 pm
Quote from: arreferee on January 21, 2016, 04:21:47 pm
Quote from: george7244 on January 21, 2016, 02:39:31 pm
IMHO the problem isn't recruiting new officials but retaining the officials already calling. They come in and call for several years and realize that if they are not in the loop out of the AAA office their playoff games will never get past a second or third round playoff game at most. Most are not willing to osculate a certain anal orfice for a game. If anyone doesn't think that there ia a tight little clique at the top they are either blind or in the clique. The latter most likely. Until there is a new head of officials in the AAA office the retention of good quality officials will continue to wane. Before anyone says this is sour grapes i have been out of officiating for several years. The politics didn't run me off but two bad knees and two heart attacks did
Quote from: arreferee on January 25, 2016, 10:15:12 am
Quote from: george7244 on January 21, 2016, 05:06:34 pm
Quote from: arreferee on January 21, 2016, 04:21:47 pm
Quote from: george7244 on January 21, 2016, 02:39:31 pm
IMHO the problem isn't recruiting new officials but retaining the officials already calling. They come in and call for several years and realize that if they are not in the loop out of the AAA office their playoff games will never get past a second or third round playoff game at most. Most are not willing to osculate a certain anal orfice for a game. If anyone doesn't think that there ia a tight little clique at the top they are either blind or in the clique. The latter most likely. Until there is a new head of officials in the AAA office the retention of good quality officials will continue to wane. Before anyone says this is sour grapes i have been out of officiating for several years. The politics didn't run me off but two bad knees and two heart attacks did.

I'm not sure I agree with this.  I don't want to debate whether or not there politics are involved, but I've never known anyone who has quit officiating because he didn't get a state championship game.  I've known several officials who would love to have one but none who have actually hung it up because of that.  You are a great example.  It's obvious that you are/were very upset that you couldn't get more playoff games than you did, but that didn't cause you to quit altogether.
.        Go back and re-read what i wrote. I never said they quit because they didn't get a state championship game. I said they quit because of the politics and i got this information firsthand by talking toa bunch who hung it up. I didn't care much about the playoffs because by the time the regular season was over the games were not worth the pain

OK.  Maybe they didn't quit because they didn't get a state championship game, but your quote was "They come in and call for several years and realize that if they are not in the loop out of the AAA office their playoff games will never get past a second or third round playoff game at most."  So, it sounds like they quit because the politics wouldn't allow them to get past the 2nd or 3rd round.  It's basically the same thing.  Personally, I've never known anyone to hang it up because of this.

I'm not sure I agree with this.  I don't want to debate whether or not there politics are involved, but I've never known anyone who has quit officiating because he didn't get a state championship game.  I've known several officials who would love to have one but none who have actually hung it up because of that.  You are a great example.  It's obvious that you are/were very upset that you couldn't get more playoff games than you did, but that didn't cause you to quit altogether.
.        Go back and re-read what i wrote. I never said they quit because they didn't get a state championship game. I said they quit because of the politics and i got this information firsthand by talking toa bunch who hung it up. I didn't care much about the playoffs because by the time the regular season was over the games were not worth the pain

OK.  Maybe they didn't quit because they didn't get a state championship game, but your quote was "They come in and call for several years and realize that if they are not in the loop out of the AAA office their playoff games will never get past a second or third round playoff game at most."  So, it sounds like they quit because the politics wouldn't allow them to get past the 2nd or 3rd round.  It's basically the same thing.  Personally, I've never known anyone to hang it up because of this.
. I know some that have quit because of the politics. Your position may be that there is no politics involved but my position is that there is.  I imagine we will never agree on this and thats ok too

I never said that there is no politics involved.  I never played that game, but I'm sure there are some that do...just like in almost everything else (unfortunately). 

sweets

Has there always been a shortage of "good" officials or is this something new?  I am fairly new so I am just asking and mean no disrespect to anyone.

I have heard the players, coaches, and parents are much more out of control now than ever before, but are they?

I believe I still have a few pieces of skoal wintergreen long-cut in my eyes, from an old assistant coach who was pulling on my facemask "politely informing me" that I had missed a block.  He was not any better behaved with the officials.  I can not believe he, and the head coach, did not get thrown out of a game or two.

When it comes to the parents yelling and screaming at the officials, I just remember my friends mom standing at the top of the stands questioning the knowledge of every crew, every single week.  He played quite a lot and I didn't, see paragraph above.  There is no way she had any voice left on the Saturday mornings after our games and all of that had been spent asking about the results of the latest vision exams of guys in stripes.  Yep, still have those folks in the stands, but most of the time they are yelling because they don't know the difference in Friday and Sunday rules.

The players have to be my favorite part of the games.  Yes, they can be mouthy and cocky, but they are sixteen to eighteen year old boys.  I bet we all were at that age.  During the games most of the players are typically pleasant and sometimes even funny. There may be the that "one" who has probably drank three Red Bull energy drinks and is acting a fool.  A warning and then a flag seems to help calm them down rather quickly.

So, with all that being said.  What has changed?

Please don't say it's political.  That is a default excuse that gets over-used when someone does not get something they want.  I work in an office with twenty-five people and that card gets played constantly.  Bob got the promotion that I should have gotten and the only reason Bob got it is because Bob is a kiss-a**.  No!!  Bob out works you.  Every day.  Bob brings something to the table you don't.  Sorry, I had two people in my office this morning with this very conversation.

What are the real issues?

Is it the ability to get off work on a Friday at one o'clock so you can drive across the state to work a game?
Is it the fact that many younger folks now think they need seventy-five to hundred dollars to leave the house?
Is it that once someone signs-on, they don't hang around because they are not being groomed correctly by other officials?

Or is it a combination of a lot of things?

Number three is the reason I almost stopped after one year.  Goodness what a difference a good white hat can make.  Game two of my first season was a 7th grade and then a JR high game.  I was new and green as could be and that guy had zero control of the game.  Both coaches knew it, the fans knew it and it was a miserable night.  I worked with him three more nights that season, I was done.  I told my wife before the last game of that season that it would be my last.  Different white hat shows up, we will call him Bob, and it is a completely different story.  Dude was in-charge and everybody knew it.  Several times that night he came to me and asked me about a play and told me how to be in a better position or how to follow my keys better.  A few years later and I am on a great crew and we worked three weeks deep in the play-offs.  And, for me at least, it is all because one guy showed up to work a 7th grade and then a JR high game the last week of the season.

Go be a "Bob"




arreferee

Quote from: sweets on January 26, 2016, 10:20:04 am
Has there always been a shortage of "good" officials or is this something new?  I am fairly new so I am just asking and mean no disrespect to anyone.

I don't think it's necessarily something new, but the situation seems to be getting worse.  There is a shortage of officials all over...and many are getting older and older without new blood coming in to take the place of the ones that will be retiring soon.

Quote from: sweets on January 26, 2016, 10:20:04 am
I have heard the players, coaches, and parents are much more out of control now than ever before, but are they?

I believe I still have a few pieces of skoal wintergreen long-cut in my eyes, from an old assistant coach who was pulling on my facemask "politely informing me" that I had missed a block.  He was not any better behaved with the officials.  I can not believe he, and the head coach, did not get thrown out of a game or two.

When it comes to the parents yelling and screaming at the officials, I just remember my friends mom standing at the top of the stands questioning the knowledge of every crew, every single week.  He played quite a lot and I didn't, see paragraph above.  There is no way she had any voice left on the Saturday mornings after our games and all of that had been spent asking about the results of the latest vision exams of guys in stripes.  Yep, still have those folks in the stands, but most of the time they are yelling because they don't know the difference in Friday and Sunday rules.

The players have to be my favorite part of the games.  Yes, they can be mouthy and cocky, but they are sixteen to eighteen year old boys.  I bet we all were at that age.  During the games most of the players are typically pleasant and sometimes even funny. There may be the that "one" who has probably drank three Red Bull energy drinks and is acting a fool.  A warning and then a flag seems to help calm them down rather quickly.

So, with all that being said.  What has changed?

I think the coaches may be getting a little worse, but not by a lot.  There were coaches that wanted to gripe about every play 40 years ago (I'm guessing here) and there are still those coaches.  The coaches I had more trouble with were assistants and coaches at the junior high level.  They higher I've gotten in my officiating, the easier the coaches are to deal with...the higher up, the more professional (for the most part). There have always been idiot fans...and there always will be.  I haven't had any more problems with players lately than when I first started.  In fact, if it weren't for dealing with coaches (99% of the time the assistants), it would be much easier.  The players are typically pretty easy to deal with.

Quote from: sweets on January 26, 2016, 10:20:04 am
Please don't say it's political.  That is a default excuse that gets over-used when someone does not get something they want.  I work in an office with twenty-five people and that card gets played constantly.  Bob got the promotion that I should have gotten and the only reason Bob got it is because Bob is a kiss-a**.  No!!  Bob out works you.  Every day.  Bob brings something to the table you don't.  Sorry, I had two people in my office this morning with this very conversation.

What are the real issues?

Is it the ability to get off work on a Friday at one o'clock so you can drive across the state to work a game?
Is it the fact that many younger folks now think they need seventy-five to hundred dollars to leave the house?
Is it that once someone signs-on, they don't hang around because they are not being groomed correctly by other officials?

Or is it a combination of a lot of things?

Number three is the reason I almost stopped after one year.  Goodness what a difference a good white hat can make.  Game two of my first season was a 7th grade and then a JR high game.  I was new and green as could be and that guy had zero control of the game.  Both coaches knew it, the fans knew it and it was a miserable night.  I worked with him three more nights that season, I was done.  I told my wife before the last game of that season that it would be my last.  Different white hat shows up, we will call him Bob, and it is a completely different story.  Dude was in-charge and everybody knew it.  Several times that night he came to me and asked me about a play and told me how to be in a better position or how to follow my keys better.  A few years later and I am on a great crew and we worked three weeks deep in the play-offs.  And, for me at least, it is all because one guy showed up to work a 7th grade and then a JR high game the last week of the season.

Go be a "Bob"

Politics has always been around and will always be around.  Learn to navigate around it.

I think some of the issues revolve around the lack of training.  There are very few clinics around the state and, from what I've seen, very little training for new officials.  If a new official doesn't get involved with an official or a crew that is really good and wants to train new officials, he won't learn everything he needs to.  Plus, if a bad official teaches a new official, that new official will pick up a lot of bad habits.

I've heard several seasoned officials complain that the first year official doesn't want to "earn his stripes" by working a lot of lower level games.  I think this has something to do with the mentality of many of the younger people these days.  They want to start at the top...they don't want to have to work their way up over a period of time.  I've seen this in the business world too so it's not just in officiating. 

I've known of a few officials who have quit after a year or two of dealing with the coaches.  It's just not worth putting up with the crap on the sideline for $75 - $100 on a Friday night.

I have a cousin who would be a very good college official, but he's not willing to give up his Saturdays to work college football.  He is happy working high school football and it doing a great job.  I think there are many who would be great officials, but they aren't willing to give up their Thursday and Friday nights to do it. They would rather go to a game and watch, go out with friends, etc.

To summarize my answer to your last question, it's a combination of several things.  Better training, better pay, and better acting coaches would go a long way to reducing the shortage we have right now...and a potentially extreme shortage we could see in 10 years (or less).

I agree...go be a "Bob."

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