Public vs Private Schools Pile (Past/Present/Future/All Classes)

[PA Bruin Fan]

Oh and if I was in the little rock area, my kid would absolutely go to PA or LRCA or another private. But that doesn't change my stance on the advantages and a new method of reclassification. Classifying based solely on numbers Is just not a good method. And really, it's just because people are lazy and want an easy way to classify.

I don't disagree with that last part about lazy.  Would you please share the information you received?  I'd like to see it. 

[MDXPHD]

I don't disagree with that last part about lazy.  Would you please share the information you received?  I'd like to see it.

I shared a lot of the numbers somewhere in this thread but haven't uploaded any documents. Send me a pm and I may be able to scan them in and share them privately after the holidays.

[JessieP]

MDXPHD, I read something this morning and was wondering if you had seen it. It's the Drexil/Sporting News study on D1 football, are you familiar? The study showed that 86% of D1 football players on scholarship come from lower middle class to below the poverty level background. The study concluded that at it's core football is still very much a working class game. The Basketball numbers were even higher. Although they garner the lion's share of headlines, school like Mater Dei, De La Salle and IMG are very much the exception. One Coach who ask not to be named had a quote that was hysterical, he said "If you want your child to get an elite education, send him to a private school. If you want him to get noticed playing football, save your money and go the public school route. We get kids from expensive Preparatory schools who had specialized coaching and customized workout programs. Come late July when they line up across from the kid who's school had bullet holes on the building and they ain't worth a pile of white dog crap".

[Red Devil Alum]

I've told myself to stay out of this thread, and to not make this post. But I'm not very smart sometimes. Here is my belief as to why a higher percentage of students on financial aid play football at PA. I will note that I don't know that any of this is 100% accurate, I don't know who does or doesn't get aid, and I'm not attempting to add any tone of race to the conversation. But here goes:

- At its beginning and for several decades, PA students were overwhelmingly white. Well into the 90%. That number begin to go down as a significant percentage of asian children enrolled, many of whom are the kids of people that came to America to work at UAMS. PA made a decision that it would benefit current students, and the community, if there was a larger percentage of african-american students at the school to increase diversity.

I think many people on here believe PA did this by offering scholarships to good football players who happen to be black. I can assure you that this isn't the case. Rather, PA made the decision to offer financial aid in the lower school and let the kids grow up in the school. As it has apparently turned out, a higher percentage of those kids receiving aid end up playing football. Draw your own conclusions as to why. PA does not offer scholarships to african-americans in order to build a football powerhouse. It would be a disservice to all constituencies for PA to be an all-white school in Little Rock, and PA is putting its money to that end. I will also note that the african-american population at PA is evenly split between boys and girls. 

1 other thing to note: I am not saying that because someone is a student at PA and is black they are on financial aid. That is not accurate, and not fair to any of the kids or families. I may regret posting this, but I think it is an important point that has not been addressed in this 29 page thread.

[JessieP]

I've told myself to stay out of this thread, and to not make this post. But I'm not very smart sometimes. Here is my belief as to why a higher percentage of students on financial aid play football at PA. I will note that I don't know that any of this is 100% accurate, I don't know who does or doesn't get aid, and I'm not attempting to add any tone of race to the conversation. But here goes:

- At its beginning and for several decades, PA students were overwhelmingly white. Well into the 90%. That number begin to go down as a significant percentage of asian children enrolled, many of whom are the kids of people that came to America to work at UAMS. PA made a decision that it would benefit current students, and the community, if there was a larger percentage of african-american students at the school to increase diversity.

I think many people on here believe PA did this by offering scholarships to good football players who happen to be black. I can assure you that this isn't the case. Rather, PA made the decision to offer financial aid in the lower school and let the kids grow up in the school. As it has apparently turned out, a higher percentage of those kids receiving aid end up playing football. Draw your own conclusions as to why. PA does not offer scholarships to african-americans in order to build a football powerhouse. It would be a disservice to all constituencies for PA to be an all-white school in Little Rock, and PA is putting its money to that end. I will also note that the african-american population at PA is evenly split between boys and girls. 

1 other thing to note: I am not saying that because someone is a student at PA and is black they are on financial aid. That is not accurate, and not fair to any of the kids or families. I may regret posting this, but I think it is an important point that has not been addressed in this 29 page thread.

That's a valid point, one that does factor into people's perceptions. For what it's worth there was nothing in your post that could be misconstrued as inappropriate, bigoted, judgemental or unfair. Relax, you said nothing that would offend anyone. Having been around here for a little over a year in no way shape or form would I say your mean or condescending, you make valid points that do promote thought and discussion. The only time I have any negative opinion of anything you say is when you disagree with something I say, in which case I think you're stupid. Don't be offended, that same principal applies to my wife.

[Red Devil Alum]

That's a valid point, one that does factor into people's perceptions. For what it's worth there was nothing in your post that could be misconstrued as inappropriate, bigoted, judgemental or unfair. Relax, you said nothing that would offend anyone. Having been around here for a little over a year in no way shape or form would I say your mean or condescending, you make valid points that do promote thought and discussion. The only time I have any negative opinion of anything you say is when you disagree with something I say, in which case I think you're stupid. Don't be offended, that same principal applies to my wife.

That is funny. It is surprising how much smarter I feel people get when the agree with me.

[Iknewthemwhen]

Send your kid to a public school to get noticed in football.  Makes sense as public schools greatly outnumber private schools so certainly more kids that play in college come from public schools.  Get noticed of course, because many state have separate leagues for private schools and across the board many of those private schools are not very good, particularly in small states such as Arkansas.  But, the discussion is about PA which is very good.  High profile privates have more kids go on to play at the college level.  Why?  Well I imagine they invest more heavily in their football program, take that however you like.   It remains a fact that some private schools do recruit players, they do have kids on scholarships and some of them do very well.   Those against public and private playing in the same conferences will not change their minds and those who attend or have children attending private schools in Arkansas are not going to change their minds either. 

[Brian G]

Alright guys, I'm going to do you a favor and bring this out of hibernation.  Lanny generally gives these threads a short leash but I looked at the way it was going in the last page or so and I find the discussion inbounds.

Police yourself.

[game on]

I think people tend to overlook or ignore the attraction of athleticly minded parents to send their kids to schools that have really good athletic programs.  Match that to parents that either have the financial means to do so or the availability of scholarships that enable attendance and you have a plus that private schools have built in.  Of course all privates don't have that plus because some simply don't put the emphasis on athletics.  I'm not saying recruiting but I'm not saying not recruiting either.  I think its inherent to the beast.  Private schools recruit students, its how they get kids even if just to come and be a great student.  Parents who have means or who are very in tune to what is going on in their kids life and the possibilities out there are working to get kids in those good schools.  Also the size of the available school district for a private school helps.  I would be curious to look at the backgrounds of the parents of PA football players and see where their background may influence where their children go to school.   I think the fact that advantages do exist is evident in the states that have chosen to use enrollment multipliers, success multipliers and to separate private and public leagues.

[PA Dad]

Alright guys, I'm going to do you a favor and bring this out of hibernation.  Lanny generally gives these threads a short leash but I looked at the way it was going in the last page or so and I find the discussion in bound.

Police yourself.

Thanks B.G.  I think this thread is really good because there is minimum name calling and some good logical discussion.

[Central AR]

I think people tend to overlook or ignore the attraction of athleticly minded parents to send their kids to schools that have really good athletic programs.  Match that to parents that either have the financial means to do so or the availability of scholarships that enable attendance and you have a plus that private schools have built in.  Of course all privates don't have that plus because some simply don't put the emphasis on athletics.  I'm not saying recruiting but I'm not saying not recruiting either.  I think its inherent to the beast.  Private schools recruit students, its how they get kids even if just to come and be a great student.  Parents who have means or who are very in tune to what is going on in their kids life and the possibilities out there are working to get kids in those good schools.  Also the size of the available school district for a private school helps.  I would be curious to look at the backgrounds of the parents of PA football players and see where their background may influence where their children go to school.   I think the fact that advantages do exist is evident in the states that have chosen to use enrollment multipliers, success multipliers and to separate private and public leagues.

Very well said. Little Rock has the highest population in the state and most of the public schools in LR have traditions of losing in football consistently. Pulaski Academy doesn't have to go find talent. The talent finds them. Imagine if PA was a public school with the same traditions they have now. Could you imagine how many parents would move into that district and the amount of buildings PA would have to build to accommodate all these new students. People flock to winning and there is very little of that going on in LR for football. None of this is confusing but a majority of posters can't comprehend it.   

[PA Dad]

Very well said. Little Rock has the highest population in the state and most of the public schools in LR have traditions of losing in football consistently. Pulaski Academy doesn't have to go find talent. The talent finds them. Imagine if PA was a public school with the same traditions they have now. Could you imagine how many parents would move into that district and the amount of buildings PA would have to build to accommodate all these new students. People flock to winning and there is very little of that going on in LR for football. None of this is confusing but a majority of posters can't comprehend it.

Greenwood is a good example of a public school that has established a winning tradition.  They have no problem attracting top players.  I've heard that some families move into the district so their kids can play at GW - at least that's what some Ft. Smith posters say.

[MDXPHD]

Very well said. Little Rock has the highest population in the state and most of the public schools in LR have traditions of losing in football consistently. Pulaski Academy doesn't have to go find talent. The talent finds them. Imagine if PA was a public school with the same traditions they have now. Could you imagine how many parents would move into that district and the amount of buildings PA would have to build to accommodate all these new students. People flock to winning and there is very little of that going on in LR for football. None of this is confusing but a majority of posters can't comprehend it.

PA would not be the same program if it was a public school. That's what this thread is about - the advantages privates have vs public schools and if there are any remedies. Recruiting is not the topic. Attraction is not the topic. It's the plethora of other things mentioned throughout the thread

[Central AR]

Greenwood is a good example of a public school that has established a winning tradition.  They have no problem attracting top players.  I've heard that some families move into the district so their kids can play at GW - at least that's what some Ft. Smith posters say.

Kinda like the QB who just played yesterday vs Mizzou?

[Central AR]

PA would not be the same program if it was a public school. That's what this thread is about - the advantages privates have vs public schools and if there are any remedies. Recruiting is not the topic. Attraction is not the topic. It's the plethora of other things mentioned throughout the thread

There is many reasons behind it. I simply stated one, which is true. People flock to winning and I have spoken to many parents who have sent their kid to PA because of their winning traditions and their coaching staff. These same folks would have moved into the PA school district if it was a public school. Many folks who live in near Nashville or Warren will move into the school district so their kid can play for that program. We see it happen all over in public schools with outstanding football programs.

Also, it is much more than than just being a private school. You know that. Or a school like Baptist Prep would be thriving. They are private and they aren't.

[game on]

It is true that private schools have advantages.  Some really emphasize those and some just do not.  If there were not advantages then we would not see the modifications being made to try to equalize the playing field.  Problem for private schools in Arkansas is this is a small state with not too many football playing private schools and even fewer really good ones.  If the private schools were forced into their own league it would ruin private school football in Arkansas.  So the private schools will fight it tooth and nail.

[MDXPHD]

There is many reasons behind it. I simply stated one, which is true. People flock to winning and I have spoken to many parents who have sent their kid to PA because of their winning traditions and their coaching staff. These same folks would have moved into the PA school district if it was a public school. Many folks who live in near Nashville or Warren will move into the school district so their kid can play for that program. We see it happen all over in public schools with outstanding football programs.

Also, it is much more than than just being a private school. You know that. Or a school like Baptist Prep would be thriving. They are private and they aren't.

In which sport? Because they have more kids on their basketball team receive financial aid than other sports. And they seem to be okay at basketball.

It is more than being a private school. I agree. Private schools just take advantage of the advantages they have, you could say.

[Central AR]

In which sport? Because they have more kids on their basketball team receive financial aid than other sports. And they seem to be okay at basketball.

It is more than being a private school. I agree. Private schools just take advantage of the advantages they have, you could say.

How do you know Baptist Prep has more of their basketball players receiving financial aid? I think their success has little to nothing to do with financial aid. It has to do with Issac McBride, Coach Ross, and the Vanover brothers. They happened to have a good supporting cast around those Division-1 players, but one to two players with that kind of talent can make up 12-15 wins in a season. That is why they were and are currently successful. Not because of financial aid, which was the first thing you brought up.

[MDXPHD]

How do you know Baptist Prep has more of their basketball players receiving financial aid? I think their success has little to nothing to do with financial aid. It has to do with Issac McBride, Coach Ross, and the Vanover brothers. They happened to have a good supporting cast around those Division-1 players, but one to two players with that kind of talent can make up 12-15 wins in a season. That is why they were and are currently successful. Not because of financial aid, which was the first thing you brought up.

Because all private schools have to report that to AAA and a fOi request told me. This thread has loads of info in it if you get some free time to read through.

[Central AR]

Because all private schools have to report that to AAA and a fOi request told me. This thread has loads of info in it if you get some free time to read through.

29 pages... here we go

[RazorDad]

Because all private schools have to report that to AAA and a fOi request told me. This thread has loads of info in it if you get some free time to read through.

I'm still waiting for you to post up this smoking gun that shows how the privates recriut. So far we only have your word. Post up these FOI documents so the rest of us can analyze them.

[sportsguy80]

It is true that private schools have advantages.  Some really emphasize those and some just do not.  If there were not advantages then we would not see the modifications being made to try to equalize the playing field.  Problem for private schools in Arkansas is this is a small state with not too many football playing private schools and even fewer really good ones.  If the private schools were forced into their own league it would ruin private school football in Arkansas.  So the private schools will fight it tooth and nail.

That's a very interesting point. I had forgot about the potential private school league in Arkansas. Without calling out any names or specific schools, does anyone know what influenced the stoppage of it coming together or was it just talk? I remember that many had mixed feelings about it like what you're mentioning. I would be very curious to see how things would work out.

[Central AR]

That's a very interesting point. I had forgot about the potential private school league in Arkansas. Without calling out any names or specific schools, does anyone know what influenced the stoppage of it coming together or was it just talk? I remember that many had mixed feelings about it like what you're mentioning. I would be very curious to see how things would work out.

Just not enough private schools I would say. Also, we have some like Sacred Heart and others who do not field football teams.

[MDXPHD]

I'm still waiting for you to post up this smoking gun that shows how the privates recriut. So far we only have your word. Post up these FOI documents so the rest of us can analyze them.

The foi documents have nothing to do with recruiting. Never said that. Good try though. I can send them at some point. Send me a PM with your email. These are a little dated now. Should I request more recent?

[PA Dad]

I'm still waiting for you to post up this smoking gun that shows how the privates recriut. So far we only have your word. Post up these FOI documents so the rest of us can analyze them.

RazorDad if you read the whole thread (and I know that's asking a lot) it's really not about recruiting.  It's about the advantages private schools have and what, if anything, needs to be done about it.  MDX quotes the numbers in the thread and they surprised me.  But, like most things, they are subject to different interpretations.

[Central AR]

The foi documents have nothing to do with recruiting. Never said that. Good try though. I can send them at some point. Send me a PM with your email. These are a little dated now. Should I request more recent?

How outdated are we talking?

[RazorDad]

RazorDad if you read the whole thread (and I know that's asking a lot) it's really not about recruiting.  It's about the advantages private schools have and what, if anything, needs to be done about it.  MDX quotes the numbers in the thread and they surprised me.  But, like most things, they are subject to different interpretations.

I read the whole thread in realtime as it evolved. Never saw the source data, hence my doubts.

[PA Dad]

I read the whole thread in realtime as it evolved. Never saw the source data, hence my doubts.

Understood.  I know MDX is a little shady but I doubt he would post made up numbers.  (Just kidding MDX!)

[game on]

I seem to remember a very hard stance against a private school league a few years ago by the private schools.  Don't blame them, they would be hurt by a private school league as their competition drop would likely mean good players would want to go to the better public schools.

[Central AR]

I seem to remember a very hard stance against a private school league a few years ago by the private schools.  Don't blame them, they would be hurt by a private school league as their competition drop would likely mean good players would want to go to the better public schools.

Exactly. Heck, even PA in the 5A probably wishes their competition was tougher. There is a reason their non-conference games are usually out of state minus Har-Ber this year.

[woopork]

Let's say no recruiting is involved.

Private schools have parents who care. They have better academics as a whole. The teachers are as a whole going to be good teachers who are definitely not in it for the money and will do whatever to get their kids to succeed. I think this is huge. 1. Successful people are generally successful at multiple things. They also are going to work harder. Do good in classroom do good on field. I know there are athletic exceptions but when all 11 defenders are 3.0+ students they are probably going to process information quicke and run the scheme better. 2. The smarter a kid is, the better football player they can be. Especially when paired with a good scheming coach.

Other advantages of private school would go program to program. Public schools have to get funding approved and generally one sport will not get substantially more funds. In a private school they can give more to certain programs that would benefit that program substantially more than a public school could. Examples would be PA/Shiloh in football or Baptist Prep in basketball. I don't know how much statistics would back that up but it's at least a little true. I know Most private schools have other successful teams but most schools it's either football or basketball.

I will say girls private school sports is another discussion about benefits.

I don't think they should have to have their own league though. I think there should be no attendance multiplier but a success multiplier which I believe has been brought up on here before. I believe if you win 2/3 championships or make it to the finals three years or so on, you would move up a class in that sport. Logistically that would cause issues because some could be 5A up in some sports and 3a down in others. I think it's still the most fair way to do it.

If I said anything wrong crucify me for it. Not trying to point fingers at any schools or people. I would like to point at PA and call fouls because 5 in a row or maybe 4 (lol) is quite annoying and I don't think it's good for the game of HS football. But because PA Dad is such an ambassador for that school I can't even do that.

[the voice]

My biggest issue is this. Coming from a small home town where everyone knows most everyone. You grow up hearing about great teams from the past. The traditions, the generations of great players. Look at the rural basketball schools. You see those players having kids who carry on the legacy or the name. You watch those teams coming up just waiting for them to have their turn.  You're a top team in your classification. Worked hard and walked the line. You meet a private school with a team that's been built. Instead of this is what we have. You lose to team that is often times different each year. I would like to see a change but I'm not sure what's best. 

[JacketFan]

Folks, you can beat this topic until it's dead in the ground.  The fact of the matter is, private schools will stay where they want to stay for one reason, and one reason only, Money, it is political, these schools have strategically placed individuals among organizations that make up the rules, so everyone can talk til they are blue in the face, it won't change nothing.  PA will win this year, and more than likely next year.  Put your big boy pants on and suck it up, it is the way of the world, Money can make anything happen, and that is a cold hard fact Jack. 

[Central AR]

Let's say no recruiting is involved.

Private schools have parents who care. They have better academics as a whole. The teachers are as a whole going to be good teachers who are definitely not in it for the money and will do whatever to get their kids to succeed. I think this is huge. 1. Successful people are generally successful at multiple things. They also are going to work harder. Do good in classroom do good on field. I know there are athletic exceptions but when all 11 defenders are 3.0+ students they are probably going to process information quicke and run the scheme better. 2. The smarter a kid is, the better football player they can be. Especially when paired with a good scheming coach.

Other advantages of private school would go program to program. Public schools have to get funding approved and generally one sport will not get substantially more funds. In a private school they can give more to certain programs that would benefit that program substantially more than a public school could. Examples would be PA/Shiloh in football or Baptist Prep in basketball. I don't know how much statistics would back that up but it's at least a little true. I know Most private schools have other successful teams but most schools it's either football or basketball.

I will say girls private school sports is another discussion about benefits.

I don't think they should have to have their own league though. I think there should be no attendance multiplier but a success multiplier which I believe has been brought up on here before. I believe if you win 2/3 championships or make it to the finals three years or so on, you would move up a class in that sport. Logistically that would cause issues because some could be 5A up in some sports and 3a down in others. I think it's still the most fair way to do it.

If I said anything wrong crucify me for it. Not trying to point fingers at any schools or people. I would like to point at PA and call fouls because 5 in a row or maybe 4 (lol) is quite annoying and I don't think it's good for the game of HS football. But because PA Dad is such an ambassador for that school I can't even do that.

You definitely made some good points.

[game on]

It is possible to get the private schools out of the public school leagues, it has been done in other states but it takes lots of money, influence and time.  As of yet the push to do this is not strong enough to make it happen in Arkansas.  The last time the topic was strongly discussed it resulted in some rules changes in private school eligibility.  It was a concession to help quiet the discussion down.  It may well rise up again if certain schools dominate too long. 

[the voice]

Private schools and magnet schools only league??

[PA Dad]

Folks, you can beat this topic until it's dead in the ground.  The fact of the matter is, private schools will stay where they want to stay for one reason, and one reason only, Money, it is political, these schools have strategically placed individuals among organizations that make up the rules, so everyone can talk til they are blue in the face, it won't change nothing.  PA will win this year, and more than likely next year.  Put your big boy pants on and suck it up, it is the way of the world, Money can make anything happen, and that is a cold hard fact Jack.

Jacketfan you are a good poster and I enjoy your posts.  I even agree with you that money talks.

But this thread is really good because we've kept it to the facts.  Your assertion that private schools have folks in high places to prevent change is just wrong, at least to my understanding.  The rules are not made by folks in high places.  They are made by the schools and every school gets a vote.  So if public schools wanted to ban privates from competing with them they could do so and folks in high places could do nothing about it.

[PA Dad]

Private schools and magnet schools only league??

Is that really what you want?  I suspect that Morrilton's win over PA on the way to the championship in 2013 is a great source of pride for Morrilton's fans.  Beating the best is what we all strive for.  Kicking privates out is an admission that you can't compete.  I think you can.

[RazorDad]

Since the private league was brought up again, I'll just repost my contribution from back on December 15 of last year: 

Yet another lame argument for separating out the privates from the publics in Arkansas.  Let's look at the private high school enrollment numbers from the AAA.  I will put include Catholic/MSM for a realistic analysis:

Catholic High/MSM                     970
Little Rock Christian Academy     405
Pulaski Academy                        311
Subiaco Academy                       251
Shiloh Christian                          231
Central Arkansas Christian           192
Baptist Prep                                179
Harding Academy                        177
Episcopal Collegiate                     152
Conway Christian                          92
St. Joseph                                    93
Trinity Christian                            60
Abundant Life                               59
Crowley's Ridge Academy              57
Ridgefield Christian                       53
Sacred Heart                                53

There are 17 private high schools in Arkansas with an enrollment of 3,335.  The total enrollment of all high schools in Arkansas is 112,337, so the privates represent 2.9 % of the HS student population.

Since you mentioned Mater Dei, let's look at California.

There are 430 private high schools in California with an enrollment of 133,000 students.  The total enrollment of all high schools in California is 2,008,650, so the privates represent 6.6 % of the HS student population.  Trinity League is just one of many private school leagues in California and consists of just seven of the private high schools in the Los Angeles area.:

Mater Dei                                     2100
Santa Margarita Catholic               1700
Lutheran                                      1322
Jserra Catholic                              1200
Servite (boys)                                920
St. John Bosco (boys)                     820
Rosary Academy (girls)                   370

Total Trinity League Enrollmen        8432

So as you can see, California (and the other states mentioned) have large enough of a private student populations to separate and have their own league, Arkansas obviously does not. heck, the entire private high school population of Arkansas is outnumbered by just Mater Dei and Santa Margarita.

So, we are back to the true heart of the matter - Is winning so important that you want to eliminate the competition by segregating them out?  Personally, I want to prove myself against the best. Removing your competition by administrative means makes any championship you receive just a participation trophy.

[game on]

The whole prove yourself against the best sounds good on paper but there is a point where it simply becomes unfair.  If the so called "best" has too much advantage then it doesn't make sense to continue to let them play with public schools.  I do agree that Arkansas has so few private schools that it would ruin competitive athletics for private schools. When public schools can only use the kids in their little towns they are at a disadvantage.  Will a public school always suffer the disadvantage, No,  just like a private school will not always benefit from the advantages when looking at athletic performance.

[PA Dad]

The whole prove yourself against the best sounds good on paper but there is a point where it simply becomes unfair.  If the so called "best" has too much advantage then it doesn't make sense to continue to let them play with public schools.  I do agree that Arkansas has so few private schools that it would ruin competitive athletics for private schools. When public schools can only use the kids in their little towns they are at a disadvantage.  Will a public school always suffer the disadvantage, No,  just like a private school will not always benefit from the advantages when looking at athletic performance.

Would you use the same logic against dominant public schools?  Barton was unbeatable for several years.  GW dominates 6A.  Should they be put in another league because they were/are too good and other schools can't compete with them?

[game on]

If a public school is operating within the rules, and using players that reside within the school zone boundaries then it is what it is.  That is one of my misgivings with public playing with private, the private can get kids from all over Little Rock for instance.  If a public school is violating the rules then they should suffer the consequences.  I know it is easier said than done.  I also know that in the mist of Barton's numerous championships and undefeated seasons there was a lot of questionable players wearing the Barton Bear uni.

[game on]

Of course the other answer is another method of classifying schools.  A success multiplier would be a possible answer.

[Brian G]

The fallout from the private/public debate is ineligible player forfeits are on the rise.  You have developing situations with household issues that force kids to change residences.  There are always a few that cheat the system, but essentially we have so many paragraphs added to avoid cheating that we are now penalizes otherwise innocent players/teams who try to follow rules but get caught in the switches.

I think the battlelines for private/public created that and now you more issues public/public.

[the voice]

Is that really what you want?  I suspect that Morrilton's win over PA on the way to the championship in 2013 is a great source of pride for Morrilton's fans.  Beating the best is what we all strive for.  Kicking privates out is an admission that you can't compete.  I think you can.

IMO it maybe Morrilton one time , Wynne another etc , but the consistent is PA , can a public school compete? Yes but can they consistently beat a private school like PA , the answer is no. I can appreciate beating the best most definitely but is PA truly beating the best teams in Arkansas , meaning how many other schools in 5a could beat the larger schools like PA has ?  Few and far between. Yet for pa it's almost automatic.  I think maybe you look at percentage of students playing a sport for that classification maybe? IDk if that'd work either. LRCA had way more players on the field than us last night. Yes we had 9th grade there also. I don't have the answer. Can a small town compete? Occasionally, but not one has been as dominant as Pa.

[game on]

I think the bottom line is the issue is advantages?  Is it even?   The answer is no.  The private school folk are only interested in what is good for their school.  I can understand that.

[RazorDad]

IMO it maybe Morrilton one time , Wynne another etc , but the consistent is PA , can a public school compete? Yes but can they consistently beat a private school like PA , the answer is no. I can appreciate beating the best most definitely but is PA truly beating the best teams in Arkansas , meaning how many other schools in 5a could beat the larger schools like PA has ?  Few and far between. Yet for pa it's almost automatic.  I think maybe you look at percentage of students playing a sport for that classification maybe? IDk if that'd work either. LRCA had way more players on the field than us last night. Yes we had 9th grade there also. I don't have the answer. Can a small town compete? Occasionally, but not one has been as dominant as Pa.

Morrilton has 54 on roster. LRCA has 62. Not sure how many 9th graders Morrilton had on hand for the playoffs, but LRCA has 27 this year. So, not much of a difference there.

[the voice]

What I'm saying is this , they're in 5a because of a multiplier , not dogging on them. Just saying what class does the actual numbers put them in ?? How many teams in that class have 62 on the team in playoffs? In my opinion it matters. But maybe I'm alone. I just can't imagine a 3a or 4a school having that many players. 8 players may not seem like much but it's close to eleven which is another squad to practice against.

[sevenof400]

I think people tend to overlook or ignore the attraction of athleticly minded parents to send their kids to schools that have really good athletic programs.  ....   I think the fact that advantages do exist is evident in the states that have chosen to use enrollment multipliers, success multipliers and to separate private and public leagues.

Too all,

I know reading 29 pages of this discussion is asking an awful lot, but I can tell you the points raised in the first post after this thread was revived today have been raised and discussed earlier.  There has been a LOT of thoughtful discussion in this long thread.  I can't say it better than this: 

Because all private schools have to report that to AAA and a fOi request told me. This thread has loads of info in it if you get some free time to read through.

Please do everything to stay within the spirit of this thread!

Thanks,

7of400

[Yellowcake]

Let's be clear on one point made...that being that private school teams are "built". As for PA, we must have some amazing eyes for talent because they start building in the first grade. My daughter is a junior. Been watching those kids play since flag football. Nothing about this team, or any Pa team I have ever seen, was "built".