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shot clock in high school

Started by BrianfromCarlisle, January 17, 2014, 08:27:07 am

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BrianfromCarlisle

How does everyone feel about this?  I would be all for a 45 second clock.  It becomes really boring watching a team passing the ball around 28 feet from the basket for 2 minutes trying to stall.  I have seen it happen 2 times this year. 

bdubyab60

Anything would be better than a team stalling. It woul definitely make the game more interesting.

BigLion10


Dragon I

Arkansas will lag behind in this just like in everything else.  A 35 second clock would be perfect.  Teams can still slow the game if they want to but not to a halt.

BrianfromCarlisle

I just threw out 45. I would like 35 better.  The stall is ridiculous and, to me is scared basketball.

HorseFeathers

i don't know. . . Here in the west i watch a lot of teams that are content to swing the ball around the arc until the defense slips up and leaves an opening . It takes a lot of discipline to play an offensive style like that . .

bulldog42

I have seen with a couple of schools in our area, where they play what I call patient basketball and force the defense to make a play on the ball.  You do have the five second rule which if teams would get up and play defense would help get the teams out of the "stall".  IMO the problem is no one want to play defense, just come down and shoot. 

Last year the NFHS looked at the shot clock situation and decided not to do it.  One of the factors sited is costs.

I know in our area we have regular clocks and controllers that are over 15 years old and need to be upgraded but can't because of costs.  Some schools just can't afford to upgrade to shot clocks which would probably require upgrading their controller and whole scoring systems.  Again my opinion.

BrianfromCarlisle

swinging the ball around, I can see.  What I am referring to is just intentionally holding the ball or moving it around with no intention whatsoever of making a play. 

And, I can see how it could be costly.  Surely it could be integrated in over time?  Just throwing it out there for discussion, really.

sevenof400

Quote from: bulldog42 on January 17, 2014, 10:02:19 am
I have seen with a couple of schools in our area, where they play what I call patient basketball and force the defense to make a play on the ball.  You do have the five second rule which if teams would get up and play defense would help get the teams out of the "stall".  IMO the problem is no one want to play defense, just come down and shoot. 

Last year the NFHS looked at the shot clock situation and decided not to do it.  One of the factors sited is costs.

I know in our area we have regular clocks and controllers that are over 15 years old and need to be upgraded but can't because of costs.  Some schools just can't afford to upgrade to shot clocks which would probably require upgrading their controller and whole scoring systems.  Again my opinion.

It may also be worth considering that a shot clock might require another person at the table.  Getting people to man the game clock and keep the book is probably headache enough at this point....

BrianfromCarlisle

Lol, that is true!  Maybe we can have everyone in the stands do a countdown from 10!

Lions84

The Stall is a classic part of the game based in part on the Princeton System of passing around and around till you get a back door lay up.

somecoach...

It would be interesting to see how it would work.  I could see it getting to a point where teams would pack in a 2-3 zone and try to force you to take an outside jumper.  In my opinion I would rather see someone hold the ball and ice the game as to see a team pass it around for 30 seconds and then take a 28 foot shot.  Just my opinion.

BigLion10

I hate watching those slow Princeton style snooze fests

HorseFeathers

I hate watching defenseless track meets. . . .

BrianfromCarlisle

I hate watching a team pass it around for 2 and a half minutes with no intention of shooting.  I don't mind a slow down game, but not a STOP game.  haha

Idoknow

January 17, 2014, 01:06:47 pm #15 Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 01:11:30 pm by Idoknow
Quote from: sevenof400 on January 17, 2014, 11:10:40 am
Quote from: bulldog42 on January 17, 2014, 10:02:19 am
I have seen with a couple of schools in our area, where they play what I call patient basketball and force the defense to make a play on the ball.  You do have the five second rule which if teams would get up and play defense would help get the teams out of the "stall".  IMO the problem is no one want to play defense, just come down and shoot. 

Last year the NFHS looked at the shot clock situation and decided not to do it.  One of the factors sited is costs.

I know in our area we have regular clocks and controllers that are over 15 years old and need to be upgraded but can't because of costs.  Some schools just can't afford to upgrade to shot clocks which would probably require upgrading their controller and whole scoring systems.  Again my opinion.

It may also be worth considering that a shot clock might require another person at the table.  Getting people to man the game clock and keep the book is probably headache enough at this point....
There's not a lot of money being made at BB. Games unless you have large crowds. After paying Refs, gate keepers, clock keepers and book keepers. Most schools pay because It's hard to get volunteers.

OldTimeCager

No on the shot clock.  I love the stall if a team can do it effectively.  No I certainly partial to the up-tempo game, but the contrast in styles is one of the things that makes it so interesting.  I used to be a high school coach and I played a team one time that put up 75+ on us three times during the year.  They were clearly the superior team and we had absolutely no chance of beating them at their game.  The only chance for our kids to compete was to stall.  In the Sr. Boys game we were up 2-0 at halftime over the number 1 team in the conference in the first round of the district tournament.  Our players and fans were thrilled!  We were up 4-2 with less than 2 minutes in the half when their all-state point guard picked us twice and we went in the half down 6-4.  We couldn't keep pace in the second half, but we only lost 26 - 18 and gave the team a really good scare. 

Think Dean Smith four-corners offense. 

Greyhound#1

I've seen lots of teams try to stall but seem to back fire on them

Dragon I

Quote from: OldTimeCager on January 29, 2014, 03:18:40 pm
No on the shot clock.  I love the stall if a team can do it effectively.  No I certainly partial to the up-tempo game, but the contrast in styles is one of the things that makes it so interesting.  I used to be a high school coach and I played a team one time that put up 75+ on us three times during the year.  They were clearly the superior team and we had absolutely no chance of beating them at their game.  The only chance for our kids to compete was to stall.  In the Sr. Boys game we were up 2-0 at halftime over the number 1 team in the conference in the first round of the district tournament.  Our players and fans were thrilled!  We were up 4-2 with less than 2 minutes in the half when their all-state point guard picked us twice and we went in the half down 6-4.  We couldn't keep pace in the second half, but we only lost 26 - 18 and gave the team a really good scare. 

Think Dean Smith four-corners offense.

This is why we need a shot clock.

sevenof400

What Dean Smith wrought on college basketball was a plague.
What Princeton (and Pete Carril) brought to the game was a joy to watch. 

BrianfromCarlisle

That is exactly why they need it.   There is a major difference between a slow down offense and totally refusing to play offense.

HorseFeathers

Quote from: BrianfromCarlisle on January 30, 2014, 04:53:10 pm
That is exactly why they need it.   There is a major difference between a slow down offense and totally refusing to play offense.

How about....a 15 second rule or something...that way at the very least we can get rid of the whole stand at half court with the ball just staring at the other team?

BrianfromCarlisle

That's what I want to be gone.  The standing around

HorseFeathers

Quote from: BrianfromCarlisle on January 30, 2014, 06:18:59 pm
That's what I want to be gone.  The standing around

Me to....even though sometimes it's quite hilarious watching a team not react to it....Actually seen a coach jump up and down and scream at his team to please somebody go get him!..

AT

Alma seems to think it will happen eventually since they built shot clocks attached to the backboards (like the NBA). (Alma actually hosted a UAFS college game once and it was used then.)

My opinion on this:

I agree that the stall game is boring to watch, but shot clock would have two negatives at least..

1. Costs (mentioned earlier). Each team would have to find a shot clock that could be seen on both ends of the court. Not every team would need to do the shot clock attached to the backboard, but clocks beside the scoreboard would work. Still a tough task that would need to be overcome at EVERY school.

2. Pace of the game. 35 seconds seems too low to me. There's some boys teams out there that would be greatly punished if their offense was limited to 35 seconds each possession. I think 45 seconds and maybe even 50 seconds would be more appropriate, but even then I wonder if it would affect slow down teams in a negative way. I know good girls teams that take 40-50 seconds on a lot of possessions. (which brings up another question, would we do this for girls too?)

I am actually for shot clocks, but I wonder about the average possession of some good slow down teams.

Lions84

It will take the Federation to get this done.

BoxNOne

Back in the 80's there was a rule that forced the defense to come out and force the action. If they didn't come out in a certain amount of time, the defense received a technical.

HorseFeathers


BoxNOne

I liked it. Don't why they changed it.

Rulesman

Quote from: BoxNOne on January 31, 2014, 11:55:23 am
I liked it. Don't why they changed it.
It was changed because the coaches didn't like it.

Lions84

The Stall is part of the game many don't like when their team loses or are ruined by too much Shark Run n Gun Basketball

True Fan

Quote from: Rulesman on January 31, 2014, 12:12:42 pm
Quote from: BoxNOne on January 31, 2014, 11:55:23 am
I liked it. Don't why they changed it.
It was changed because the coaches didn't like it.

Makes no sense to put it on the defense. There ultimate responsibility is to keep the other team from scoring. They can't score if they are standing at half court. A tech on anybody should have been on the offense.

HorseFeathers

Quote from: Lions84 on January 31, 2014, 12:25:41 pm
The Stall is part of the game many don't like when their team loses or are ruined by too much Shark Run n Gun Basketball

We're not asking for Run N gun...we're asking for at least passing and are okay with a disciplined offense swinging it around the key until they get what they are looking for it. Holding it at Halfcourt doesn't take any talent...or develop any skill other than there is no point in trying if the other team is better than you...just keep it away from them...

BrianfromCarlisle


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