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2016 - 2A FINAL MONEY POLL

Started by 3 Dollar, May 15, 2016, 07:18:16 am

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3 Dollar

1...Spring Hill
2...Hector
3...Parkers Chapel
4...Foreman
5...Poyen
6...Marmaduke
7...Pangburn
8...McCrory
9...Rison
10..Magnet Cove

Ice Water

SH, PC, Foreman, Poyen, Rison, and MC will all be in the same region next year. Each squad returns their pitcher and at least five bats in their lineup. The historically strongest region is about to turn into an absolute monster.

baseball2012

You better include Camden Harmony Grove.  They will contend for the region.

WPWells

Quote from: baseball2012 on May 15, 2016, 08:10:04 pm
You better include Camden Harmony Grove.  They will contend for the region.

Uhhhhhh???

BLUEBLOOD

Quote from: baseball2012 on May 15, 2016, 08:10:04 pm
You better include Camden Harmony Grove.  They will contend for the region.

I didn't realize they were dropping down to 2A.  Tough region to get out of.

Tom88us

Hector should be good also losing only 1 girl that starts and they will have there pitcher back....


JV policy 14

want to give your username and password as well?! lol

Tom88us


Tom88us


BLUEBLOOD

Going to bottom 7th.  SH 2  Hector 1

Tom88us


BLUEBLOOD

Game over

Springhill back to back champs


mlt

Quote from: 3 Dollar on May 15, 2016, 07:18:16 am
1...Spring Hill
2...Hector
3...Parkers Chapel
4...Foreman
5...Poyen
6...Marmaduke
7...Pangburn
8...McCrory
9...Rison
10..Magnet Cove

Wildcatalumni21

Hector got robbed in the state championship game. I understand no umpire is perfect but when a girls wrists break over, she definitely didn't check her swing. Which would of been strike 3 and game over. Was a very good game and hats off to SH but Hector got screwed

Sweet

Quote from: Wildcatalumni21 on May 21, 2016, 06:30:13 pm
Hector got robbed in the state championship game. I understand no umpire is perfect but when a girls wrists break over, she definitely didn't check her swing. Which would of been strike 3 and game over. Was a very good game and hats off to SH but Hector got screwed


Let's see some video

Sbfan2016

Quote from: Wildcatalumni21 on May 21, 2016, 06:30:13 pm
Hector got robbed in the state championship game. I understand no umpire is perfect but when a girls wrists break over, she definitely didn't check her swing. Which would of been strike 3 and game over. Was a very good game and hats off to SH but Hector got screwed

Excellent game between two very well deserving teams. As far as all the talk over "questionable" check swing. I have yet to find any official rule for a check swing. "She broke her wrists" "The bat went past the front of the plate" Many believe these are written in rules or are written interpretations of a strike but I have yet to find them in a rule book.  They may be factors that the umpire uses to make an interpretation but they are factors, not rules. Also if the pitch comes in the strike zone that plays into the judgement to call it a strike or if it comes in as a ball when a "check swing" is being questioned. It is a judgment call made by the umpire just like any other pitch call(ball, strike) and can be appealed to the field umpire for review which it was in this case and upheld. Also I beieve Hector was the home team so they did have last bat with the opportunity to score and win the ballgame regardless.

There was at least one other "questionable" call if we are wanting to analyze every call, the play at first base with the picture in various newspapers showing the first baseman attempting to make the play with the ball clearly inside foul territory, might also be a questionable call.

Two great teams, great ballgame!

Sweet

I've seen the video. In short SH 2 Hector 1

Long version. The call in question was indeed a strike.

SECTION 11 CHECKED SWING
A checked swing is the restraining action taken by a batter to stop an attempted hit/slap/bunt. As
an aid in determining a checked swing, the umpire shall note whether the swing carried the barrel
portion of the bat in front of the batter's body and in the direction of the infield.
However, the
final decision is based on whether the bat actually struck at the ball.

It was the responsibility of the Hector coach to get this call moved from a judgement call to a rules interpretation by getting the umpire to admit that the barrel moved forward. Once the umpire admits that it becomes a rules interpretation and no longer a judgement call.

But since he didn't:


NOTE: If any situation arises which could lead to an appeal by the defense on the last play of the
game, umpires should not leave the field until all infielders have left fair territory and the catcher
has vacated her normal fielding position. If teams line up to shake hands, there is little chance for
an appeal even if the defensive infielders have not crossed the foul line and umpires can leave the
game at this point. No appeal can be made once the umpires have left the field.



I'm going to go out on a limb and say the umpires have left the field.

Sbfan2016

Quote from: Sweet on May 22, 2016, 02:49:24 pm
I've seen the video. In short SH 2 Hector

final decision is based on whether the bat actually struck at the ball

Long version. The call in question was indeed a strike.

SECTION 11 CHECKED SWING
A checked swing is the restraining action taken by a batter to stop an attempted hit/slap/bunt. As
an aid in determining a checked swing, the umpire shall note whether the swing carried the barrel
portion of the bat in front of the batter's body and in the direction of the infield.
However, the
final decision is based on whether the bat actually struck at the ball.

It was the responsibility of the Hector coach to get this call moved from a judgement call to a rules interpretation by getting the umpire to admit that the barrel moved forward. Once the umpire admits that it becomes a rules interpretation and no longer a judgement call.

But since he didn't:


NOTE: If any situation arises which could lead to an appeal by the defense on the last play of the
game, umpires should not leave the field until all infielders have left fair territory and the catcher
has vacated her normal fielding position. If teams line up to shake hands, there is little chance for
an appeal even if the defensive infielders have not crossed the foul line and umpires can leave the
game at this point. No appeal can be made once the umpires have left the field.



I'm going to go out on a limb and say the umpires have left the field.

Sweet

That would mean a check swing is never a strike unless the bat hits the ball.

Why mention the barrel going forward?

Sbfan2016

In answer to your question why mention the barrel?  The definition of the word "however"- used to introduce a statement that contrasts with or seems to contradict something that has been said previously.

So just pointing out possibly that was the reasoning behind the call the official made that day on that particular check swing. But you know what they say about opinions, we all have them and they all.......

The fact of the matter is the call was made just like several other calls during that game, they were home team and had opportunity to have last bat and score and win the ballgame.

Game over....

Sweet

They all had 21 outs to work with. The fact that Hector didn't score in the bottom of the 7th doesn't mean anything. SHE dint score in the first six.

Yes, ball game. The officials have left the field. IMO this is on Hector coach.

Ice Water

I'm just trying to follow along here. Explain to me how the coach from Hector could have changed anything? Home plate ump asked for help, field ump said she didn't go. How would coach be able to do anything to change that ruling?

Also, the "bat actually struck at the ball" phrase in the book has nothing to do with making contact. That just means there has to be, what the umpire deems, a legitimate attempt to hit the ball with the bat. In this case, the umps ruled that the batter did not.

Wildcatalumni21

May 22, 2016, 06:52:26 pm #23 Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 06:54:57 pm by Wildcatalumni21
Sure Hector did have the chance to tie or win in bottom of the 7th but if the correct call had been made it wouldn't of even went to bottom of 7th. And like what was stated above, how could the Hector coach of done anything to change it??

Sbfan2016

Quote from: Ice Water on May 22, 2016, 06:31:59 pm
I'm just trying to follow along here. Explain to me how the coach from Hector could have changed anything? Home plate ump asked for help, field ump said she didn't go. How would coach be able to do anything to change that ruling?

Also, the "bat actually struck at the ball" phrase in the book has nothing to do with making contact. That just means there has to be, what the umpire deems, a legitimate attempt to hit the ball with the bat. In this case, the umps ruled that the batter did not.

Exactly what I was trying to say but you said it much better, thank you... And Both umps ruled the batter did not. For Hector to keep trying to lessen a win by bringing this call up over and over on various sites and contacting AAA numerous times shows poor sportsmanship. The call was made.

We could all sit back and question every call and say "if that 3rd strike wasn't called, we would have scored and the outcome would have been different, the pitch was in her eyes"  "If that interference call would have been made, the runner wouldn't have been in scoring position"  The list goes on & on.  It's all part of the game we know and love.

Next topic...




bulldog

What interference call are you talking about?

bulldog

May 22, 2016, 10:00:35 pm #26 Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 10:16:12 pm by bulldog
Would dare say no one from AAA has been contacted over a check swing.

MrRBurgundy

If the Hector faithful feel the need to place blame on someone else for their loss, maybe they should look within. What cost them the game was multiple blown scoring opportunities. Such as having a runner on third with no outs and failing to produce a run. They also had bases loaded with no outs in another inning and failed to produce runs. I was amazed that they never laid down a bunt in either situation.

bulldog

May 22, 2016, 11:02:58 pm #28 Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 11:11:46 pm by bulldog
Burgundy, just from trying to follow along, I think there is only 1 hector follower raising a question.  I will say again since it was thrown out there by someone.  I rather doubt the AAA has been contacted over a check swing.  Someone trying to stir the pot appears.

Tom88us

Im a Hector Fan and I say it was a good game both team played hard one called didn't change the game....
Good job and good Win SH

Sbfan2016

Quote from: bulldog on May 22, 2016, 11:02:58 pm
Burgundy, just from trying to follow along, I think there is only 1 hector follower raising a question.  I will say again since it was thrown out there by someone.  I rather doubt the AAA has been contacted over a check swing.  Someone trying to stir the pot appears.

No pot stirring here,just fact. I have tried to figure out how to post a picture all morning to show contact has been made. But can't figure out how. So I will try and explain, when you @ ArkActAssnAAA (official site) on twitter with "do you think this was a check swing" with photos and videos EVERY day since last Friday, I believe that is a form of contact. along with various other comments made to AAA.

Let's all get back to enjoying the game we all love and let this go


GatorBall

Quote from: MrRBurgundy on May 22, 2016, 10:48:13 pm
If the Hector faithful feel the need to place blame on someone else for their loss, maybe they should look within. What cost them the game was multiple blown scoring opportunities. Such as having a runner on third with no outs and failing to produce a run. They also had bases loaded with no outs in another inning and failed to produce runs. I was amazed that they never laid down a bunt in either situation.

Very good point! Last year Hector was in the same situation against the same Spring Hill team in the quarterfinals of State with runners on 1st & 2nd with nobody out. If I remember correctly the score was tied and it was the bottom of the seventh. They never tried to bunt the girls around and Hector ended up hitting a deep fly ball to left field for the second out in that inning that would have scored the winning run had they tried to advance the runners on the previous out. Nobody ended up scoring that inning and later Spring Hill scored the winning run in the 9th or 10th inning. Of course Spring Hill ends up wining State last year but they looked dead in the water against Hector if Hector would have decided to play small ball to win the game.

Just an observation...

Ole Man River

Ok let me get this straight.  On the check swing in question.  If the batter made contact with the ball, and the catcher didn't catch the ball, then that would be a foul ball.  I wasn't there and have not seen pictures.  I'm just going on what Sbfan 2016 is saying.

BLUEBLOOD

Quote from: Ice Water on May 22, 2016, 06:31:59 pm
I'm just trying to follow along here. Explain to me how the coach from Hector could have changed anything? Home plate ump asked for help, field ump said she didn't go. How would coach be able to do anything to change that ruling?


I think the reference to the Hector coach making a difference is this:  when a coach appeals a play, he/she must have a plan of action.  You can't go out and disagree with a call because the umpire obviously made the call he/she felt was correct.  A coach has to establish what was called and why.  In matter of a check swing, the first thing you want to ask is if the pitch was a strike or not.  Sometimes even the ump can get caught watching the batter in that situation.  So, if he says "no it was not a strike" then you have to ask if the bat "struck AT the ball" or "did the barrel cross the plate or go in front of the batter". 

A coach better know the rules and be able to get the matter from a judgement call to a rules interpretation.  If you can't do that, you will lose the appeal 100% of the time.  It's also key to be calm and establish what & why before the rule book is pulled out.  If you can (somehow) make the umpire agree with rule book language AND then show him the rule that uses the same language.......you will only lose 90% of your appeals!!!

A coach also has to consider the effect him/her getting upset and/or the fans getting riled up during the appeal will have on the team.  Hector was home team and they needed to come up to bat with energy and focus.....not desperation and defeated attitudes.

Sbfan2016

No contact was made with ball, some feel as though the batter "went"

Ole Man River

In that case---BALL 3.  Play continues!!!

BLUEBLOOD

Quote from: Sbfan2016 on May 23, 2016, 10:47:59 am
No contact was made with ball, some feel as though the batter "went"

If it's contact, we aren't having any controversy.  The rule says "struck AT the ball".  Leaves it open for interpretation. 

BLUEBLOOD

Quote from: Ole Man River on May 23, 2016, 11:10:44 am
In that case---BALL 3.  Play continues!!!

I'm not an umpire and I know it's supposed to be CONSISTENT, CONSISTENT, CONSISTENT.........but I wouldn't want to end the game on a questionable check swing.  If it's not obvious, I'm probably going to give the hitter & pitcher another chance to duel.  Especially for state championship.  Kinda like the end of a basketball game.  No cheap fouls are getting called at the buzzer.

bulldog

May 23, 2016, 09:55:47 pm #38 Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 09:58:00 pm by bulldog
 Token Strike Mentality!!

Count is 3-0 and pitcher throws a questionable pitch around the plate.  Call it a strike and make hitter have to earn 1st base a 2nd time? Ridiculous!!   If it is a ball call it a ball, strike a strike.  Buckle and hands squared up with the pitcher on a check swing it is a strike.

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