New State Cup Rule and Central Arakansas State Cup Success

[michu]

Like or dislike the new State Cup rule which allows runner-up to represent Arkansas in the President's Cup regional opposed to having separate bracket for Presdent's Cup?
Also, how much success will Central Arkansas have in the upcoming State Cup for age groups U15+? Southern Regional will be held at Burns Park next summer.

[arsoccer]

I like the new state cup format.  Gives the state a better representative at president's cup regionals and makes for larger numbers in state cup which makes things more interesting and more competitive in my opinion.  As for state cup results, here goes:

U15 Boys
1. Comets
2. Fort Smith

Comets are by far the superior team in the age group.

U16 Boys
1. NWA
2. MBB

NWA finally gets over the hump and beats bluebirds.  Bluebirds have lost several players over the last 3 years and it finally catches up with them.

U17 Boys
1. Fort Smith
2. AR United

United is good enough to win but can't seem to put things together.  The group overall is actually not that great.   Comets could be a surprise state cup winner in this group.

U18 Boys
1. AR United
2. NWA

United have been the better team for the last few years but they have lost some kids.  They did add Chris Holmes, however, which will give them a huge boost.  I think they pull it out.

U15 Girls
1. MBB
2. AR Rush Dragonflies

Teams in NWA in this age group are not great.  These two have separated themselves from the pack and have quite a rivalry.

U16 Girls
1. AR United
2. NWA

United are the better team but recent results have been tight.

U17 Girls
1. Comets

Not a very good age group.  No one else is really close.

U18 Girls
1. Comets
2. AR  United

Comets are by far the best team but United could sneak up on them. 

Just my opinion.  Let's see how things play out.

[FutbolPhan]

When did AR United 97's lure Mr. Holmes away from the Arkansas Rush?

[arsoccer]

When did AR United 97's lure Mr. Holmes away from the Arkansas Rush?

Not sure they lured him away.  He plays HS with many of these kids and I think he just wants to do state cup and hopefully regionals with them.  He's done the same thing in the past where he has been with Rush for the fall and then transferred over for state cup.  My point is, I don't think anything negative happened with Rush or that he saw some huge positive with playing at United. 

[michu]

When did AR United 97's lure Mr. Holmes away from the Arkansas Rush?

Not sure they lured him away.  He plays HS with many of these kids and I think he just wants to do state cup and hopefully regionals with them.  He's done the same thing in the past where he has been with Rush for the fall and then transferred over for state cup.  My point is, I don't think anything negative happened with Rush or that he saw some huge positive with playing at United.

Perfect example of Rush being a club that makes decisions in the best interest of the player. It's his senior year with Southern Regional taking place at Burns Park next summer. He wants to finish out his youth soccer career playing state cup and hopefully regional with his high school friends and his club has no problems signing his release.

[michu]

I like the new state cup format.  Gives the state a better representative at president's cup regionals and makes for larger numbers in state cup which makes things more interesting and more competitive in my opinion.  As for state cup results, here goes:

U15 Boys
1. Comets
2. Fort Smith

Comets are by far the superior team in the age group.

U16 Boys
1. NWA
2. MBB

NWA finally gets over the hump and beats bluebirds.  Bluebirds have lost several players over the last 3 years and it finally catches up with them.

U17 Boys
1. Fort Smith
2. AR United

United is good enough to win but can't seem to put things together.  The group overall is actually not that great.   Comets could be a surprise state cup winner in this group.

U18 Boys
1. AR United
2. NWA

United have been the better team for the last few years but they have lost some kids.  They did add Chris Holmes, however, which will give them a huge boost.  I think they pull it out.

U15 Girls
1. MBB
2. AR Rush Dragonflies

Teams in NWA in this age group are not great.  These two have separated themselves from the pack and have quite a rivalry.

U16 Girls
1. AR United
2. NWA

United are the better team but recent results have been tight.

U17 Girls
1. Comets

Not a very good age group.  No one else is really close.

U18 Girls
1. Comets
2. AR  United

Comets are by far the best team but United could sneak up on them. 

Just my opinion.  Let's see how things play out.

Agree with you 100% on new format and allowing Arkansas to have better representation at President's Cup Regional.
Regarding your predictions, don't be surprised if Comets Red meets Comets Premier in U15B final. Comets Red won their group at this year's Plano/Labor Day Tournament losing a close quarterfinal to Lobos Rush Premier (0-1). Hopefully Comets Premier break through next summer and make Souther Regional semi. Comets Premier seem to be one of the better, if not best, team ever in history of AR soccer.

[chaoslord]

So what did everyone think of state cup?

[HP14]

I like the new state cup format.  Gives the state a better representative at president's cup regionals and makes for larger numbers in state cup which makes things more interesting and more competitive in my opinion.  As for state cup results, here goes:

U15 Boys
1. Comets
2. Fort Smith

Comets are by far the superior team in the age group.

U16 Boys
1. NWA
2. MBB

NWA finally gets over the hump and beats bluebirds.  Bluebirds have lost several players over the last 3 years and it finally catches up with them.

U17 Boys
1. Fort Smith
2. AR United

United is good enough to win but can't seem to put things together.  The group overall is actually not that great.   Comets could be a surprise state cup winner in this group.

U18 Boys
1. AR United
2. NWA

United have been the better team for the last few years but they have lost some kids.  They did add Chris Holmes, however, which will give them a huge boost.  I think they pull it out.

U15 Girls
1. MBB
2. AR Rush Dragonflies

Teams in NWA in this age group are not great.  These two have separated themselves from the pack and have quite a rivalry.

U16 Girls
1. AR United
2. NWA

United are the better team but recent results have been tight.

U17 Girls
1. Comets

Not a very good age group.  No one else is really close.

U18 Girls
1. Comets
2. AR  United

Comets are by far the best team but United could sneak up on them. 

Just my opinion.  Let's see how things play out.

Agree with you 100% on new format and allowing Arkansas to have better representation at President's Cup Regional.
Regarding your predictions, don't be surprised if Comets Red meets Comets Premier in U15B final. Comets Red won their group at this year's Plano/Labor Day Tournament losing a close quarterfinal to Lobos Rush Premier (0-1). Hopefully Comets Premier break through next summer and make Souther Regional semi. Comets Premier seem to be one of the better, if not best, team ever in history of AR soccer.

I do not believe best AR team ever is an accurate evaluation as they won their bracket on a technicality.  Not by actually winning the bracket.

[Laird Williams]

......Regarding your predictions, don't be surprised if Comets Red meets Comets Premier in U15B final. Comets Red won their group at this year's Plano/Labor Day Tournament losing a close quarterfinal to Lobos Rush Premier (0-1). Hopefully Comets Premier break through next summer and make Souther Regional semi. Comets Premier seem to be one of the better, if not best, team ever in history of AR soccer.

I do not believe best AR team ever is an accurate evaluation as they won their bracket on a technicality.  Not by actually winning the bracket.

HP, it wasn't Comets Premier that reached the finals on a technicality, it was Comets Red. That Comets '00 Black Premier team has certainly had tremendous success in recent years, more than any other Arkansas team of any age group (that I am personally aware of), so I would agree with Michu there. Having said that, they certainly showed they were human this weekend and Red played a magnificent game against them yesterday to conclude play for the weekend for that division. Kudos to them.

[Lowguards]

What was the technicality that allowed the Comets Red team to advance to the final?

[Laird Williams]

What was the technicality that allowed the Comets Red team to advance to the final?

Arkansas Rush '00 Boys Black won all of their pool games, including their match against Comets Red. But Rush's roster included two boys who reside outside of Arkansas. Comets Red challenged the eligibility of those boys. Upon review, the State ruled that those boys had been registered in error, thus, the boys in question were stricken from Rush's roster, Rush's Saturday wins were vacated, and Comets Red advanced in Rush's place to the final.

There was/is some question (in some people's minds) as to whether that ruling was an appropriate one. For instance, a current agreement exists, called the Region III Memorandum of Understanding: Cross Border Registration Agreement, which could be interpreted to address the issue in Rush's favor. However...as I am the parent of a kid on Arkansas Rush '00 Black, perhaps my opinion on the matter is a biased one?? Haha.

Anyway, that's the bones of it, LG.

[michu]

What was the technicality that allowed the Comets Red team to advance to the final?

Arkansas Rush '00 Boys Black won all of their pool games, including their match against Comets Red. But Rush's roster included two boys who reside outside of Arkansas. Comets Red challenged the eligibility of those boys. Upon review, the State ruled that those boys had been registered in error, thus, the boys in question were stricken from Rush's roster, Rush's Saturday wins were vacated, and Comets Red advanced in Rush's place to the final.

There was/is some question (in some people's minds) as to whether that ruling was an appropriate one. For instance, a current agreement exists, called the Region III Memorandum of Understanding Cross Border Registration Agreement which could be interpreted to address the issue in Rush's favor. However...as I am the parent of a kid on Arkansas Rush '00 Black, perhaps my opinion on the matter is a biased one?? Haha.

Anyway, that's the bones of it, LG.

Are you aware that the same gentleman that runs the Comets organization also runs the ASSA? It may not be written, but it is fact.

[arksoc]

Sorry, michu. Your "fact" is simply not true. The gentleman from the Comets organization to whom I believe you are referring currently serves as the classic commissioner as elected by the statewide membership of ASSA and, in that role, also serves as the tournament director for the state cups. But he does not "run" the ASSA either in practice or in theory. Why do you want to try to stir up trouble?

[Laird Williams]

I presume Michu was talking to me, so your correction, arksoc, is appreciated. I'm not aware of much, beyond the knowledge that said tournament director's team (interesting that he was actually the TD of the event in question) managed to make a relatively meaningful final that I believe should rightfully have included my kid's team, rather than his club's team; but that is an inevitably slanted opinion, obviously: not a fact, not a ruling, just my opinion. Not good for much. If there's any trouble astir over it all, though, it isn't Michu's doing. I do appreciate the clarification and information, though, very much; it helps me as I think all of this through. I like to think of facts as friends.

[michu]

Sorry, michu. Your "fact" is simply not true. The gentleman from the Comets organization to whom I believe you are referring currently serves as the classic commissioner as elected by the statewide membership of ASSA and, in that role, also serves as the tournament director for the state cups. But he does not "run" the ASSA either in practice or in theory. Why do you want to try to stir up trouble?

Very naive statement if you don't feel he can dictate any situation concerning ASSA, especially as it relates to his club. I like him as he is the face of Arkansas soccer and done some very good things to grow the game, but it's not like I am breaking news.

[Laird Williams]

I don't believe he can dictate any situation. At least I hope he can't. That would make him, well, a dictator.

[arksoc]

Okay, michu, you go ahead and believe that if it makes you feel better or supports your views about the ASSA. Laird, I'd be disappointed, too, if it had been my son's team. Tough situation for sure.

[Laird Williams]

Very tough, and thank you for the thought, arksoc, I appreciate it. It is made tougher by a couple of things: that Cross-Border Agreement, for one, and the fact that ASSA registered them to our team in advance of the tournament. The whereabouts of their residences was not withheld. ASSA put them on our roster and issued them player cards. Then approved them again at check-in.

I get that many believe that Arkansas State Cups should be played by and against Arkansas players. It's a noble idea. But ASSA signed the Cross-Border agreement to enable south Arkansas kids to more easily participate in Texas state-sponsored tournaments. And, in so doing, our kids can now more easily participate with multiple states beyond our borders. That's great. But, is the idea that we want to expand the opportunities that Arkansas kids have to play beyond our state lines, while simultaneously restricting other states' kids, even ones from our partner states, from that same privilege here? That seems terribly disingenuous.

By National USYA standards, the kids were good to go. ASSA wishes to be stricter about it (though even the language of the rule they cite supports our position). Well, fine, let us presume the kids should not have been rostered: that ASSA screwed up when they did that. Should ASSA have then, mid-tournament, made those kids, and our club, pay so dearly for their mistake?

As a friend suggested (who does not have a kid on our team, by the way), if ASSA is going to reach beyond National regulations, and do that with so little competency, how are clubs expected to know what to do and when to do it? ASSA's actions, if anyone wants to get litigious about it (to quote that friend), "resulted in detrimental, and foreseeable, reliance."

I talk about this for two reasons: 1) it is a good lesson for all involved, and 2) if anyone out there hears that Rush somehow attempted to cheat--and we have heard that--we did not. We presumed we were following the rules. Many believe we did.

Hopefully, for all involved, I'm done talking about this.

[Laird Williams]

By the way, I was just reviewing arsoccer's predictions and his comments regarding that U15 division, and michu's follow up. Point to michu. Kudos, sir. But neither of you saw Arkansas Rush '00 Black as the dark horse in the race, the only team in that division to go undefeated? So disappointing. 

[forumfan]

Another point.  I checked several state cup rules.  Not one of them mentioned any state residency requirements.  I know of teams in the DC, VA & MD area that have competed, without incident, with properly registered "out-of-state" players.  I'd be curious if there is a rule in writing that states Arkansas State cup residency requirements.  If so, no issue.  If not, there is a problem with capriciousness.  Intentions may have been good in the decision, but if there was no rule in writing the correct action would have been to create the rule (though I personally don't think it is a good idea) for the future.

[arksoc]

This got me curious because it does seem harsh. The ASSA state cup rules actually do address out-of-state players as follows in paragraph d. under "Team Eligibly" (sic). You have to dig a bit to find it.

"Any player that resides in another state and wishes to play on a team registered with ASSA must complete the interstate release form prior to the fall registration deadline in order to be eligible for participation in an ASSA State Cup."

http://www.arkansassoccer.org/assets/964/15/Chapter8StateCupRules05151.pdf

I'm not sure how this rule coordinates with the cross border agreements. But it would seem that these players should have been fine assuming they fulfilled the paperwork requirement prior to the registration deadline.

[CAS]

So the state issued player cards to these two players in question and then accepted the teams roster, which included these two players, prior to the tournament? Then the state allowed this team to "check-in" with these two players in question on the day prior to start of tournament?

[Laird Williams]

Yes.

I know I said I was done, but, hey, you asked a question. It would be rude to leave it hanging, wouldn't it?

Yes.

But arksoc and forumfan are both illuminating intricacies that also need to be addressed.

For instance, the rule arksoc quotes is the only rule in ASSA's bylaws which mentions a date in relation to out-of-state kids. It does this, as we can see, obliquely, and in connection with a form called the "interstate release form."

That form, via national USYA standards, is necessary when a player requires a release from another state. These kids did not require that form: they were not registered with another state.

The kids also happened to be covered, as I've mentioned, by the newer Cross-Border Agreement, which these participating states signed to better enable kids to play out-of-state with partner-states.

Now, that Cross-Border Agreement does refer players who wish to play in one of these partner-states to that state's current policies, but ASSA's policies, as written, concerns a release, that, for these kids, was unnecessary, by national standards. (Perhaps that why someone at ASSA issued them cards? Who knows, and that would likely be denied.)

ASSA's position, though, once the issue was raised at the end of Saturday, became, in essence, ...well, admitting them was a mistake on our part; what we meant in our Team 'Eligibly' section was....

Which is where forumfan's comments are germane: If they want to be tougher than USYA nationally, fine (arguably), but be explicit about it in a rewrite down the road. Don't do what you did to Rush this weekend. A case of entrapment can be argued, and the benefit their ruling brought to a longstanding ASSA associate's team doesn't help them any.

I realize this all smacks of sour grapes. But...wow. And CAS's simple question gets right to the heart of the incredulity.

[michu]

I would suggest the Rush get someone on the ASSA BOD.

[Laird Williams]

LOL, as they say.

[michu]

By the way, I was just reviewing arsoccer's predictions and his comments regarding that U15 division, and michu's follow up. Point to michu. Kudos, sir. But neither of you saw Arkansas Rush '00 Black as the dark horse in the race, the only team in that division to go undefeated? So disappointing. 

Rush '00 Black goes undefeated in pool play. Is this team mostly made up of kids from central Arkansas? Any of them planning on playing soccer in college?

[FutbolPhan]

Question, were these players originally rostered as Arkansas Rush players and have been playing with them throughout the ASL season prior to the state cup?

[Laird Williams]

Question, were these players originally rostered as Arkansas Rush players and have been playing with them throughout the ASL season prior to the state cup?

No, sir. At the start of the year we had 16 or so on our roster (all in-state kids). By the freeze date for State Cup we were down to 11: we needed at least two, we felt, to be able to participate. FutbolPhan, had that condition been spelled out in the rules, we would not have rostered them.

[Laird Williams]

Rush '00 Black goes undefeated in pool play. Is this team mostly made up of kids from central Arkansas? Any of them planning on playing soccer in college?

Yes, and yes. Several of them have those hopes. Might be pie-in-the-sky ambition, but, yes is the answer on collegiate soccer ambition.

[michu]

Rush '00 Black goes undefeated in pool play. Is this team mostly made up of kids from central Arkansas? Any of them planning on playing soccer in college?

Yes, and yes. Several of them have those hopes. Might be pie-in-the-sky ambition, but, yes is the answer on collegiate soccer ambition.

Nothing wrong with pie-in-the-sky ambitions. As soon as we have more kids with similar aspirations, the better off soccer will be in our neck of the woods.

[michu]

Question, were these players originally rostered as Arkansas Rush players and have been playing with them throughout the ASL season prior to the state cup?

No, sir. At the start of the year we had 16 or so on our roster (all in-state kids). By the freeze date for State Cup we were down to 11: we needed at least two, we felt, to be able to participate. FutbolPhan, had that condition been spelled out in the rules, we would not, could not, have rostered them.

Your team got screwed, Laird. Hope it works out for that group of young men.

[Laird Williams]

Well, not everyone thinks like you and me, Michu, but I appreciate your thoughts on it. I have always enjoyed reading you. And I agree with you on your overarching point: Rush has some high-quality stuff going on. Hope more kids tune in.

[FutbolPhan]

This statement in Chapter 8 of the ASSA bylaws may be the overriding factor if the "fall registration date" is the dropdead date for a team to register and be accepted for play in the Arkansas State League which is the primary requirement to participate in Arkansas State Cup competition. 

Team Eligibly:
a. All teams (and the team's association) must be in good standing with the ASSA.
b. Any team playing with a player or players over the age limit concerned shall forfeit all
the games in which that player participated.
c. No team shall be allowed more players on their roster than could lawfully participate
under the rules of a given competition.
d. No team may enter a Level 2 or Level 3 state cup if more than 25 percent of its rostered players reside out-­‐of-­‐state. Any player that resides in another state and wishes to play on a team registered with ASSA must complete the interstate release form prior to the fall registration deadline in order to be eligible for participation in an ASSA State Cup.

[Laird Williams]

We've been talking about section D for a couple of days now. The sentence you have emphasized refers to a release that wasn't needed by kids who weren't registered in any other state, particularly partner-states. As the sentence reads, they were free to play.

But that is exactly the sentence which ASSA's ruling at the tournament depended upon. So, their intent, apparently, was as you suggest. The question, though, is two-fold: does intent outweigh the published language, and does that intent, further, outweigh their actions prior to the opening whistle?

I don't have an answer. Just an opinion.

[FutbolPhan]

In that case they would have been unaffiliated, unregistered, guest players which I believe would not be allowed by any state registrar for the singular purpose of playing in a state championship for a state to which they did not reside. Looks like the club admins should have vetted the rules much sooner than the last day to submit the roster. There would have most likely been players that were not "cup-tied" within your geographic region that would have been able to gain a release and have been available to fill in the short roster without looking to another state. If the release in Chapter 8 wasn't relevant then the interstate agreement wouldn't apply. It is semantics that you are arguing and to that, the definitions do not help your cause. if states were to allow this type of last minute registration, there would be "hired guns" available for all teams that allow the Cross-Border Agreement making the championships available for sale, so to speak... 

[Laird Williams]

In that case they would have been unaffiliated, unregistered, guest players which I believe would not be allowed by any state registrar for the singular purpose of playing in a state championship for a state to which they did not reside. Looks like the club admins should have vetted the rules much sooner than the last day to submit the roster. There would have most likely been players that were not "cup-tied" within your geographic region that would have been able to gain a release and have been available to fill in the short roster without looking to another state. If the release in Chapter 8 wasn't relevant then the interstate agreement wouldn't apply. It is semantics that you are arguing and to that, the definitions do not help your cause. if states were to allow this type of last minute registration, there would be "hired guns" available for all teams that allow the Cross-Border Agreement making the championships available for sale, so to speak...

I am now even more convinced Rush has a defensible position. Not that they will win the day on the point. You essentially say any player who is unaffiliated must be defined as a guest. I can find no such written mandate. You state that the club admins did not vet the rules until the last day allowable to submit the roster. That is both false and disparaging. The phrase "geographic region" is not defined in the rules. You write, "If the release in Chapter 8 wasn't relevant then the interstate agreement wouldn't apply." That is specious. The sentence in section D we are talking about does not refer to the Cross Border Agreement; it refers to an Interstate Release. The Cross Border Agreement is not relevant to the sentence.

Ironically, you follow that with a point about semantics. As semantics is concerned with meaning, yes, I am wondering about the semantics of the section you have, in your preceding post, A) enlarged, B) made bold, and C) underlined. None of that adornment has altered the semantics of the sentence: it still refers to a release that was not germane to the kids in question, at least on their end or in our minds.

However, it has been made clear to us -- now -- what ASSA claims it meant to communicate. So, again, yes, on this point, it most definitely becomes a question of semantics. I am not convinced the sentence helps anyone's cause, unless obfuscation was the goal and surely it wasn't.

You then reiterate your characterization of the registration of the kids in question as last minute. The condescension aside, rosters are routinely adjusted leading up to our State Cup, right up to the freeze date, a.k.a., the last minute. Lastly, you characterize the kids as hired guns and characterize the tournament as purchasable. That is dramatic hyperbole. In sum, your rhetoric is offensive and detracts from the relevant facts we have been discussing. (By your logic, wonderful kids like Chris Holmes and Marin Carter were nothing more than hired guns.)

I realize there are many seemingly logical rationals out there for restricting this tournament in various ways. Listing them all, no matter how lucidly, and I have been delivered some tremendous arguments in other forums this week, does not negate the reality that Section D is obtuse and that ASSA rostered those kids, sent them player cards and checked them in.

There are multiple reasons why Rush or any other club so handled could think the kids were good to go, both leading up to the tournament and through the entire first day of the tournament.

I do agree, however, that the overriding factor will be called the fall registration deadline. I just don't find it written properly by ASSA in their rules (which led to this), nor feel it was handled properly by ASSA in this circumstance, nor observe it defended cogently in this forum, and I mean no disrespect to anyone. I understand now the intent and believe the actions almost certainly will stand. (It would be calamitous to invalidate that U15 Final and I, frankly, hope, at least for all of those Comets Red kids and families, that it doesn't happen.) This can simply be a lesson learned for many. It certainly is for yours truly. Now, if we haven't beaten this horse to death, I believe we can all agree that we have run it back to the state from whence it came.

Michu may be onto something: perhaps all Arkansas clubs should have some board representation.

[CAS]

This is like watching a debate between a lawyer and high school freshman. Keep beating the dead horse. It's very entertaining.
If the ASSA  actually knew the rules, then how did these boys make it to the field? That's assuming rules were broken. What suck's is that kids were denied during the event. ASSA accepted them and should have followed through on their acceptance.

[Arbitro]

I have no knowledge of this situation other than what has been posted here, but it is possible that the problem may have resulted from the specific rules of player and team eligibility for the national championship series, or the interaction of those rules with the state rules for player eligibility.

Anyone who has been around soccer for long knows that different tournaments or other competitions have their own rules for team composition.  Some allow guest players (usually with a limit).  Others do not allow guest players, but only primary and secondary registered players.  Still others allow only primary registered players.  Teams may find that players that compete in most of their games cannot participate in a specific tournament, and it is a team decision whether to leave them behind or not go at all.  Ideally teams know every type of competition they will participate in throughout the year, and only roster players that will be eligible for all of them, but that just doesn't always happen.  This can be further complicated by rules that limit player additions, drops, or transfers, which aren't always easy to comprehend.

The Arkansas State Cup is the first step in the National Championship Series for Arkansas teams.  It's been a few years since I was involved, but last I heard teams that wanted to participate in the ASC were required to commit up front to representing the state at Regionals if they won their age group.  Your team had to be confident that the players were willing and able to fulfill the time and financial commitments of Regionals (potentially a problem for the oldest age groups, and occasionally for teams composed of economically disadvantaged players).  In addition to team commitment, the players/teams had to meet all eligibility requirements of both the ASSA and the National Championship Series.

One of the advertised advantages of the Rush program is that it allows kids from one Rush team to play for other Rush teams (even from another state) if it suits their needs and goals.  While I don't know that this applies to the Rush players in question, even if ASSA rules allowed them to play on the AR Rush team for league play, they might run into problems when subjected to rules for Regional play and beyond.

Do I know this was the situation?  No, but it is easy to imagine a similar conflict.
Whose responsibility was it to determine if any players failed to meet the necessary eligibility requirements?  There is probably shared responsibility here, but since the Rush team was the party with the most to lose in this atypical situation, their club administration probably could have gone to greater lengths to confirm.
Should the ASSA make every effort to match their eligibility rules to those for the National Championship Series?  Possibly, but I doubt that they had Rush inter-association play in mind when the rules were written so this may have slipped through the cracks.  If the rules did match, these players might not have been able to play on the team all season.  Should player opportunities be limited just in case the team might want to shoot for Regionals?

OK, I built up a nice straw man argument.  Only those intimately involved in the situation know if it actually applies.  But I would tend to believe something like it over a conspiracy by the ASSA.

...and no, I have no connection to any of the parties involved.

[Laird Williams]

Excellent post, Arbitro. Thank you. The out-of-state kids in question do not happen to be Rush players, but your analysis still holds. As these Rush coaches have extensive experience with interstate play, I believe the confusion you describe is entirely possible.

If I suggested some sort of conspiracy at the outset of my rant, that was wrong of me (I'm writing via my phone now, so I will have to look later and correct myself where necessary). I do not believe Rush was conspired against. Rather, it appears humans on all sides were at the controls.

Again, excellent post. It is much appreciated.

[CAS]

Michu suggested conspiracy.

[Laird Williams]

Well...he also predicted Comets Red could win that division. Maybe he does know something us mortals don't. Ha. But in all seriousness, when slicing this whole debacle up with Occam's Razor, Arbitro seems to have the best handle on it, at least from my perspective, now, given a little distance and lot of thought and chatter about it. In the moment, I was seeing too much....well, Red.....to talk rationally about it. Suffice it to say it sucked. For us.

But, honestly, again, I must admit that it was fun to see Comets Red battle Comets Black on one of the finest stages around in the biggest game of the season, and then take down their obvious rival. I do not begrudge either team their successes.

And, in the end, who was the only team at the tourney to beat the standing State Champs? Arkansas Rush 00 Black, sporting only 13 players. Hala Rush, as we like to say. So though that horse vamoosed, I'll continue to ride around on its memory I while longer.

[michu]

Michu suggested conspiracy.

That is a fair statement and I may have been out of line with my previous comment. However, I do know that the Rush continues to push into central Arkansas and that clubs feel threatened.

[CAS]

Michu suggested conspiracy.

That is a fair statement and I may have been out of line with my previous comment. However, I do know that the Rush continues to push into central Arkansas and that clubs feel threatened.

What clubs are threatened and why?

[michu]

Michu suggested conspiracy.

That is a fair statement and I may have been out of line with my previous comment. However, I do know that the Rush continues to push into central Arkansas and that clubs feel threatened.

What clubs are threatened and why?

Let's take this a step farther in a new subject line since this is becoming off topic.

[Badger]

"U16 Boys
1. NWA
2. MBB

NWA finally gets over the hump and beats bluebirds.  Bluebirds have lost several players over the last 3 years and it finally catches up with them."


Upset of the tournament - BBs over NWA - I thought NWA would win by 2-3 goals.  That being said, BBs have added some pretty solid players to make up for many of those lost over the years.

[Badger]

Also, I wish I was as smart as Laird Williams.  He's the man! 

[Laird Williams]

Hey, man, personal attacks are not cool. I'm filing a protest!

[michu]

"U16 Boys
1. NWA
2. MBB

NWA finally gets over the hump and beats bluebirds.  Bluebirds have lost several players over the last 3 years and it finally catches up with them."


Upset of the tournament - BBs over NWA - I thought NWA would win by 2-3 goals.  That being said, BBs have added some pretty solid players to make up for many of those lost over the years.

BB has always owned that age group despite being a weak age group.

[Badger]

Hey, man, personal attacks are not cool. I'm filing a protest!

Ha Ha!  Hopefully, you're being facetious, Laird Williams.  Seriously, enjoyed reading your posts.  I know you had a vested interest in this particular topic but hope you continue to post on this forum.  You ARE the man, you protest-filing SOB! 

[Laird Williams]

I appreciate your kind words, Badger, but....here's two rather compelling pieces of evidence that suggest I am dumb as a stump: It was me who suggested bringing those out-of-state kids over here, and I post here under my own name! LOL