I have a question. Not being negative, I am genuinely curious. What is the deal with Arkansas High School Basketball? Arkansas is ranked 32nd in population yet the number of AHS Basketball players getting scholarships per capita ranks us 43rd. The number of teams ranked Nationally puts us at 41st. These numbers are factored per capita so our size is not the issue. In Basketball we're down there with the Dakotas and Vermont.
In Football we are more than respectable, using the same criteria we ranked 17th in Football! We send more players to the next level then some states with double the population. For a State with just over 3 million people a ranking of 17 is incredible. The numbers in Baseball are not as impressive but still very respectable. We ranked 24th in Baseball.
It's not a Deep South issue because Louisiana, Alabama and Georgia are ranked in the Top 20 in High School Hoops. What are your thoughts? Is it a lack of interest at the youth level? Lack of funds? It's bizarre because I've seen a packed gym of rabid cheering fans for a Jr High girls game. Why are we so far behind in Basketball? 247 Sports calls our AAU teams "luke warm at best". I can't figure out how we're almost elite in Football, upper half in Baseball and bringing up the rear in Basketball. Any thoughts?
Interesting. I think most people will be surprised by that, especially since most of our better athletes play basketball.
That is odd....I've kinda always felt that Arkansas was more a basketball state than a football state....maybe it's just the small towns I hang out it in....
Quote from: HorseFeathers on January 09, 2018, 08:04:19 pm
That is odd....I've kinda always felt that Arkansas was more a basketball state than a football state....maybe it's just the small towns I hang out it in....
I think that may have a lot to do with it. Small town fans are fanatic, the support is awesome. The problem may be that when you have a Midland/Timbo (just an example) rivalry you might get 1 college level player every 5 years where a Greenwood/Russellville Football game would have 5 or 6 college players every year. Small towns have the excitement but the bigger schools have the horses, just a thought.
Quote from: JessieP on January 09, 2018, 08:16:05 pm
I think that may have a lot to do with it. Small town fans are fanatic, the support is awesome. The problem may be that when you have a Midland/Timbo (just an example) rivalry you might get 1 college level player every 5 years where a Greenwood/Russellville Football game would have 5 or 6 college players every year. Small towns have the excitement but the bigger schools have the horses, just a thought.
I can't argue that point
Post link. I need to read more. Thanks.
Quote from: JessieP on January 09, 2018, 07:55:48 pm
I have a question. Not being negative, I am genuinely curious. What is the deal with Arkansas High School Basketball? Arkansas is ranked 32nd in population yet the number of AHS Basketball players getting scholarships per capita ranks us 43rd. The number of teams ranked Nationally puts us at 41st. These numbers are factored per capita so our size is not the issue. In Basketball we're down there with the Dakotas and Vermont.
In Football we are more than respectable, using the same criteria we ranked 17th in Football! We send more players to the next level then some states with double the population. For a State with just over 3 million people a ranking of 17 is incredible. The numbers in Baseball are not as impressive but still very respectable. We ranked 24th in Baseball.
It's not a Deep South issue because Louisiana, Alabama and Georgia are ranked in the Top 20 in High School Hoops. What are your thoughts? Is it a lack of interest at the youth level? Lack of funds? It's bizarre because I've seen a packed gym of rabid cheering fans for a Jr High girls game. Why are we so far behind in Basketball? 247 Sports calls our AAU teams "luke warm at best". I can't figure out how we're almost elite in Football, upper half in Baseball and bringing up the rear in Basketball. Any thoughts?
Where did you get this info?
Couple reasons I see for this. First of all coaches push for all kids to play all sports in Arkansas. That is fine if you want to be a college football player because not near as much skill is needed. If you want to play college basketball you better not play football in HS. 90 percent of D1 basketball players do not play football for 3 years in HS. Secondly man there are just some really bad coaches in the state who do not work on skills enough or have jumping programs anymore. I have been to several 6a games this year and most teams have only one guy playing above the rim.
Quote from: MDXPHD on January 09, 2018, 11:20:05 pm
Post link. I need to read more. Thanks.
No way, I'm not at your pitch. I don't need you calling me a dummy, I have a wife that does that. Seriously, I was curious when I read an article on SB Nation calling Arkansas AAU Basketball "luke warm". I started looking into it. Surprisingly NCAA Research has maps that show per capita recruiting in all major sports. There are also rankings on SB Nation, Max Preps (although I put very little credence into MP. Teams can submit their own stats/info), 24/7 Sports and Rivals all have varying rankings. It took me a couple weeks to come up with the info, it would take you about 30 minutes.
Quote from: Neckred on January 10, 2018, 09:03:02 am
Couple reasons I see for this. First of all coaches push for all kids to play all sports in Arkansas. That is fine if you want to be a college football player because not near as much skill is needed. If you want to play college basketball you better not play football in HS. 90 percent of D1 basketball players do not play football for 3 years in HS. Secondly man there are just some really bad coaches in the state who do not work on skills enough or have jumping programs anymore. I have been to several 6a games this year and most teams have only one guy playing above the rim.
I would be interested to see the research behind that quote about 90% of D1 Hoop players not playing HS football. Could you paste a link? I don't doubt that, just curious.
I would agree that there are some bad coaches... but not that many, bad coaches. Some years have down cycles statewide for athleticism. What is more concerning to me than being above the rim, is can kids put the ball in the hole? Shooting is in decline. I'm stating the obvious here. And before anyone says teams play faster today, and attack the rim faster, thus making an excuse for poor shooting %'s.... I must say this... Why are we playing faster and attacking the rim with reckless abandon if we can't make those off balanced circus shots in the first place? Having a balanced attack should be emphasized that can promote better shot selection. One area, that i do agree is a sign of weak coaching, is that how many coaches build their shooting drills to directly mimic the offense they run, and get kids shooting massive numbers of reps in the exact locations and angles that they will shoot in a game...
Look at the last 20 players to go play D1 basketball from Arkansas. Zero played HS football for 3 years. It's pretty standard across the nation. Most D1 basketball players do not play football or baseball
Quote from: Neckred on January 10, 2018, 12:09:06 pm
Look at the last 20 players to go play D1 basketball from Arkansas. Zero played HS football for 3 years. It's pretty standard across the nation. Most D1 basketball players do not play football or baseball
I was just asking if you had any documentation. I hear coaches from various college sports all the time saying kids should not specialize due to injury/burnout. I've seen a lot of Arkansas kids who were D1, and specialized in HS who quit their college teams after their freshman seasons. It's a difficult thing no doubt
The state of Arkansas is always underrated in basketball
Quote from: 4real on January 10, 2018, 12:24:26 pm
I was just asking if you had any documentation. I hear coaches from various college sports all the time saying kids should not specialize due to injury/burnout. I've seen a lot of Arkansas kids who were D1, and specialized in HS who quit their college teams after their freshman seasons. It's a difficult thing no doubt
Those coaches are usually if not always football coaches saying that. Football takes very little skill, just aggression, strength, and speed. Basketball and baseball however take skill you have to work on for years. No college basketball coach wants their recruit playing football.
Quote from: Neckred on January 10, 2018, 01:16:36 pm
Those coaches are usually if not always football coaches saying that. Football takes very little skill, just aggression, strength, and speed. Basketball and baseball however take skill you have to work on for years. No college basketball coach wants their recruit playing football.
I'm not saying your points are off. But, I have heard softball and baseball college coaches interview on espn about the matter and said the opposite of what you are saying. Crazy thing is, all this specialization, and the quality of shooting the ball in our state is down... Not to mention, we don't put out that many kids in D1 baseball and softball either to my knowledge...
Quote from: Bbal789 on January 10, 2018, 01:01:31 pm
The state of Arkansas is always underrated in basketball
Not underrated, underachieving. Look at our Football output, we have athletes, we just don't have a high level of Basketball. I say that not taunting but trying to figure out how we can change that. Let's face it, Kentucky, Louisville, UCLA, North Carolina and Duke are not sending coaches to check out our summer leagues. Sure we have had some legitimate D1 stars but if you honestly sit back and look at it the last one was Joe Johnson. That was a long time ago. I think Neckred nailed it, our boys aren't being coached properly. We have a lot of kids at smaller schools trying to make a cool Hudl video but where are the PA's, Greenwoods or Pine Bluffs in basketball? Name me the last time an Arkansas Basketball team was featured on a National level? If we sucked at Football I would say "Oh well, we're a small State" but we actually excel at Football given our population. In Basketball we are way behind the curve.
Quote from: JessieP on January 10, 2018, 01:51:41 pm
Not underrated, underachieving. Look at our Football output, we have athletes, we just don't have a high level of Basketball. I say that not taunting but trying to figure out how we can change that. Let's face it, Kentucky, Louisville, UCLA, North Carolina and Duke are not sending coaches to check out our summer leagues. Sure we have had some legitimate D1 stars but if you honestly sit back and look at it the last one was Joe Johnson. That was a long time ago. I think Neckred nailed it, our boys aren't being coached properly. We have a lot of kids at smaller schools trying to make a cool Hudl video but where are the PA's, Greenwoods or Pine Bluffs in basketball? Name me the last time an Arkansas Basketball team was featured on a National level? If we sucked at Football I would say "Oh well, we're a small State" but we actually excel at Football given our population. In Basketball we are way behind the curve.
I had to post after i read your first two sentences...
We have the athletes in football? There aren't very many of our FB athletes going on to be stars at other major D1 programs first off... 2nd, most of the athletes we do have may end up on the Hill, and we see how athletic they've been the last 7-8 years... Sorry, i haven't read the rest of your post yet, and might've missed something valuable...
Quote from: JessieP on January 10, 2018, 01:51:41 pm
Not underrated, underachieving. Look at our Football output, we have athletes, we just don't have a high level of Basketball. I say that not taunting but trying to figure out how we can change that. Let's face it, Kentucky, Louisville, UCLA, North Carolina and Duke are not sending coaches to check out our summer leagues. Sure we have had some legitimate D1 stars but if you honestly sit back and look at it the last one was Joe Johnson. That was a long time ago. I think Neckred nailed it, our boys aren't being coached properly. We have a lot of kids at smaller schools trying to make a cool Hudl video but where are the PA's, Greenwoods or Pine Bluffs in basketball? Name me the last time an Arkansas Basketball team was featured on a National level? If we sucked at Football I would say "Oh well, we're a small State" but we actually excel at Football given our population. In Basketball we are way behind the curve.
Oh, OK. Now i read it all...
Joe was the last great for Ark BB... So, by that rationale, who am I forgetting that was great, at that kind of level, from Arkansas HS FB? McFadden? I can't think of any others. Help me out. and D-Mac graduated mid2000's?
Quote from: 4real on January 10, 2018, 02:33:06 pm
Oh, OK. Now i read it all...
Joe was the last great for Ark BB... So, by that rationale, who am I forgetting that was great, at that kind of level, from Arkansas HS FB? McFadden? I can't think of any others. Help me out. and D-Mac graduated mid2000's?
Arkansas has sent many Football players to D1 schools over the past 5 year, dozens of them. As far as being a star since McFadden, oh I don't know....there is that Henry guy. He's not a star in college, he's a star in the NFL. Are you seriously debating we have had the same success in sending boys on to play college Basketball then we have Football? Seriously? Your gonna stick with that story? We have had high school Basketball teams ranked in the Top 50 Nationally? Really? We have 2 or 3 in Football almost every year. Just for clarification, it's your position that we have the same respect/accomplishments/exposure in basketball that we do in football? OK, good luck selling that.
Quote from: JessieP on January 10, 2018, 03:05:31 pm
Arkansas has sent many Football players to D1 schools over the past 5 year, dozens of them. As far as being a star since McFadden, oh I don't know....there is that Henry guy. He's not a star in college, he's a star in the NFL. Are you seriously debating we have had the same success in sending boys on to play college Basketball then we have Football? Seriously? Your gonna stick with that story? We have had high school Basketball teams ranked in the Top 50 Nationally? Really? We have 2 or 3 in Football almost every year. Just for clarification, it's your position that we have the same respect/accomplishments/exposure in basketball that we do in football? OK, good luck selling that.
Your reference was a star like Joe Johnson, so I tried to keep the conversation in the same realm... The Henry kid I think will be a good one too. But, Alabama, Auburn, USC, Oklahoma, Georgia FB coaches aren't exactly beating down our HS doors to sign our abundance of amazing athletes to my knowledge. Maybe one kid like that a year?
We have, in basketball, actually had a few lottery draft picks over the years since Joe J. Archie Griffin, a kid, i think his name was Malik Monk? KeVaughn Allen will probably be a draft pick. I think there were college coaches beating the doors down to get them...
Quote from: 4real on January 10, 2018, 02:33:06 pm
Oh, OK. Now i read it all...
Joe was the last great for Ark BB... So, by that rationale, who am I forgetting that was great, at that kind of level, from Arkansas HS FB? McFadden? I can't think of any others. Help me out. and D-Mac graduated mid2000's?
I responded too quick, Damian Williams, Mike Dyer (before he screwed up his life). Mitch Mustain and Hunter Henry were Gatorade First Team All-Americans. If this were on the football board the die hards would bury us in names. Your missing the entire point of my thread, I am bursting with State Pride. I was simply asking how a State with 3 million residents can rank near the top in football yet near the bottom in basketball. According to NCAA Research we send more football players to college, per capita, than Texas. In basketball we send less to college then Idaho. Your trying to say we should be proud of that?
Quote from: 4real on January 10, 2018, 03:13:48 pm
We have, in basketball, actually had a few lottery draft picks over the years since Joe J. Archie Griffin, a kid, i think his name was Malik Monk? KeVaughn Allen will probably be a draft pick. I think there were college coaches beating the doors down to get them...
Again, I am not disparaging our elite BB players. I cheer them all on with pride. D. Fisher and S. Pippen give us 2 HOF's. I am simply wondering why we can't generate the same heat in Basketball that we do in Football. If we could I'd be first in line to wave our flag. The fact is that Arkansas Basketball is an afterthought on the National stage. I watch some 6A games on the internet, the skill level is not even close to what you see in LA, NY, Chicago or Houston. I watched Crenshaw/LB Poly once on FS1, it was an ally-oop two handed dunk fest. Probably 30% of the points came on thunderous stuffs, above the rim. When I watch some local games it looks like Hoosiers. If PA and Greenwood can play out of state teams and hold their own why can't our BB teams?
Listen bud, my first name is Serious, my last name is Lee... However, my friends call me Joker. So, I give you permission to call me Joker now...
I get what you are saying that Arkansans have been lacking in our basketball skills. Another thread that has already been beat down like a dead horse is dedicated to this very idea. The demise of skill is attributed to several obvious factors such as electronics and distractions for kids today.
However, I completely disagree with your statement that we are a top producer compared to the other 49 states in top football talent. If that were true, the Hogs would. It be stuck at an FCS level for the better part of this decade. I don't put a lot of value in bearing about all of the D1 kids that end up at Schools outside of the SEC, Big12, etc. for every 1st and 2nd round footbydraft pick since 2000, there have been just as many drafted by the nba from our state.
So, to simplify the conversation, we will agree that we need a desperately aggressive approach to improving the shooting skills of Arkansas HS BB players in a world where teenagers are married to iPhones, social media, x box, instant gratification, being pampered, not expecting to have to earn anything, entitlement, etc.
This conversation might not seem so bad if the Hogs had been able to sign kids like James Anderson, Archie Griffin, Austin Reeves, KeVaughn Allen and Malik Monk, to name a few.
Quote from: 4real on January 10, 2018, 10:32:24 pm
Listen bud, my first name is Serious, my last name is Lee... However, my friends call me Joker. So, I give you permission to call me Joker now...
I get what you are saying that Arkansans have been lacking in our basketball skills. Another thread that has already been beat down like a dead horse is dedicated to this very idea. The demise of skill is attributed to several obvious factors such as electronics and distractions for kids today.
However, I completely disagree with your statement that we are a top producer compared to the other 49 states in top football talent. If that were true, the Hogs would. It be stuck at an FCS level for the better part of this decade. I don't put a lot of value in bearing about all of the D1 kids that end up at Schools outside of the SEC, Big12, etc. for every 1st and 2nd round footbydraft pick since 2000, there have been just as many drafted by the nba from our state.
So, to simplify the conversation, we will agree that we need a desperately aggressive approach to improving the shooting skills of Arkansas HS BB players in a world where teenagers are married to iPhones, social media, x box, instant gratification, being pampered, not expecting to have to earn anything, entitlement, etc.
This conversation might not seem so bad if the Hogs had been able to sign kids like James Anderson, Archie Griffin, Austin Reeves, KeVaughn Allen and Malik Monk, to name a few.
Lol@Joker! We are close to being in agreement. I'm not saying we are at the top of the heap in Football, what I'm saying is we are making a very respectable showing. Arkansas is number 32 in population with just over 3 million. If all things played out apples for apples per capita we'd be 32nd in Football recruiting and 32 in Basketball recruiting. The fact that we jump to 17 in Football is very impressive, being in the low 40's in Basketball is embarrassing. No, we're not California or Texas in Football be we can walk proud at 17th.
The point you nailed is the coaching/skills aspect. We have the athletes but Coaches here seem to be content to play a "whoever has the ball past midcourt, drive to the hoop" game. Watching some local high schools I can tell you that passing, boxing out, defense and post play are foreign concepts. If Coaches would actually Coach we'd be fine. We cool Joker?
I can agree with those points. With the coaching, it's called coaching clinics syndrome. Just cuz it sounds good that Calipari or some big name does it, don't mean it'll be good for a HS team. Dribble drive is great if you got 4-5 kids that can attac basket but most teams don't have that. Then the best shooter isn't getting as many quality shots, etc
Well said 4real. The college game is soooo different because of the shot clock, NBA ambitions, 1 and done etc. High school coaching in AR is always impacted by what goes on on the hill, what we see on tv. What priority do we see given to recruiting and developing shooters at UA? Or to skill development at all for that matter. How often do we see a set play used to get a good look at a 3? That's becoming more rare everywhere. Not gonna get better in our state unless a change is made at the UofA to keep pace with the recent improvements in coaching in the SEC!
Quote from: Bulldog555 on January 11, 2018, 07:41:47 am
Well said 4real. The college game is soooo different because of the shot clock, NBA ambitions, 1 and done etc. High school coaching in AR is always impacted by what goes on on the hill, what we see on tv. What priority do we see given to recruiting and developing shooters at UA? Or to skill development at all for that matter. How often do we see a set play used to get a good look at a 3? That's becoming more rare everywhere. Not gonna get better in our state unless a change is made at the UofA to keep pace with the recent improvements in coaching in the SEC!
Shot clock is coming soon, very soon I hope. I watch a lot of basketball all over the state. I feel like set plays are a big problem at every level. First of all pee wee teams should have zero set plays. These aren't only my thoughts, this is suggested by the director of USA basketball. Junior high maybe need a couple. I know a HS coach who actually has over 30 plays. He's never won a game in the state tournament though.....
Quote from: 4real on January 10, 2018, 10:32:24 pm
Listen bud, my first name is Serious, my last name is Lee... However, my friends call me Joker. So, I give you permission to call me Joker now...
I get what you are saying that Arkansans have been lacking in our basketball skills. Another thread that has already been beat down like a dead horse is dedicated to this very idea. The demise of skill is attributed to several obvious factors such as electronics and distractions for kids today.
However, I completely disagree with your statement that we are a top producer compared to the other 49 states in top football talent. If that were true, the Hogs would. It be stuck at an FCS level for the better part of this decade. I don't put a lot of value in bearing about all of the D1 kids that end up at Schools outside of the SEC, Big12, etc. for every 1st and 2nd round footbydraft pick since 2000, there have been just as many drafted by the nba from our state.
So, to simplify the conversation, we will agree that we need a desperately aggressive approach to improving the shooting skills of Arkansas HS BB players in a world where teenagers are married to iPhones, social media, x box, instant gratification, being pampered, not expecting to have to earn anything, entitlement, etc.
This conversation might not seem so bad if the Hogs had been able to sign kids like James Anderson, Archie Griffin, Austin Reeves, KeVaughn Allen and Malik Monk, to name a few.
Also IJ Ready, Kahron Ross, Payton Willis, Eric Curry, Tyrik Dixon, Mitchell Smith, Lawson Korita, Shawn Williams, Javon Franklin
Dixon averages 4 points a game at Middle Tenn State. Franklin is at juco. Where is Mitchell Smith? Thought he was at Mizzou but don't see stats.
Quote from: JessieP on January 09, 2018, 07:55:48 pm
I have a question. Not being negative, I am genuinely curious. What is the deal with Arkansas High School Basketball? Arkansas is ranked 32nd in population yet the number of AHS Basketball players getting scholarships per capita ranks us 43rd. The number of teams ranked Nationally puts us at 41st. These numbers are factored per capita so our size is not the issue. In Basketball we're down there with the Dakotas and Vermont.
In Football we are more than respectable, using the same criteria we ranked 17th in Football! We send more players to the next level then some states with double the population. For a State with just over 3 million people a ranking of 17 is incredible. The numbers in Baseball are not as impressive but still very respectable. We ranked 24th in Baseball.
It's not a Deep South issue because Louisiana, Alabama and Georgia are ranked in the Top 20 in High School Hoops. What are your thoughts? Is it a lack of interest at the youth level? Lack of funds? It's bizarre because I've seen a packed gym of rabid cheering fans for a Jr High girls game. Why are we so far behind in Basketball? 247 Sports calls our AAU teams "luke warm at best". I can't figure out how we're almost elite in Football, upper half in Baseball and bringing up the rear in Basketball. Any thoughts?
As far as teams go, I don't think Arkansas is down. I think the level of ball being played here is as good as any, as evidenced by how well our better teams do when they leave the state, or when other teams come here. I think the "next-level players" issue is two-fold. First and foremost, it's a matter of Arkansas being so overwhelmingly guard-oriented. More succinctly, we're a short state. 2nd, academics. Arkansas lags behind nearly every state academically, and that hurts many of our prospects when it comes time for those standardized tests.
Quote from: Neckred on January 10, 2018, 09:03:02 am
Couple reasons I see for this. First of all coaches push for all kids to play all sports in Arkansas. That is fine if you want to be a college football player because not near as much skill is needed. If you want to play college basketball you better not play football in HS. 90 percent of D1 basketball players do not play football for 3 years in HS. Secondly man there are just some really bad coaches in the state who do not work on skills enough or have jumping programs anymore. I have been to several 6a games this year and most teams have only one guy playing above the rim.
If you're a bona fide DI basketball player, I agree you shouldn't play football. Otherwise, that is bad, bad advice. There are way too many kids that don't play football because they think they're basketball prospects when really they would give themselves a much better chance of getting to the next level in football, for just the reasons you stated about skill vs. raw athletic ability.
Quote from: Rayburn on January 11, 2018, 03:03:18 pm
As far as teams go, I don't think Arkansas is down. I think the level of ball being played here is as good as any, as evidenced by how well our better teams do when they leave the state, or when other teams come here. I think the "next-level players" issue is two-fold. First and foremost, it's a matter of Arkansas being so overwhelmingly guard-oriented. More succinctly, we're a short state. 2nd, academics. Arkansas lags behind nearly every state academically, and that hurts many of our prospects when it comes time for those standardized tests.
you speak some wisdom with this post... wise are your ways. I still think shooting skills are diminishing across our state, but it's not just a thing here, kids all over drift away from shooting in the park or driveway to decompress with me-pads, book-face, chap-snat, twittin, lookin at stuff they aint suppose to.
When we were comin' along, we wanted out of the house, hoopin it up at the park or yard, and discovering the amazing joy/heartache of chasin' the girls instead of just lookin'
Quote from: Rayburn on January 11, 2018, 03:10:40 pm
If you're a bona fide DI basketball player, I agree you shouldn't play football. Otherwise, that is bad, bad advice. There are way too many kids that don't play football because they think they're basketball prospects when really they would give themselves a much better chance of getting to the next level in football, for just the reasons you stated about skill vs. raw athletic ability.
yup.
Quote from: HorseFeathers on January 09, 2018, 08:04:19 pm
That is odd....I've kinda always felt that Arkansas was more a basketball state than a football state....maybe it's just the small towns I hang out it in....
I always felt like our state wanted to be a FB state. Really, we should put our heart and soul as fans into track/field/cross country... Then we wouldn't ever be heartbroken by the Hogs!
High school basketball will never again be the game it was. Let's go to a 15 second shot clock, more than 3passes a violation, unlimited fouls, let um play ref, free Xbox to the winner.........
Quote from: Rayburn on January 11, 2018, 03:03:18 pm
As far as teams go, I don't think Arkansas is down. I think the level of ball being played here is as good as any, as evidenced by how well our better teams do when they leave the state, or when other teams come here. I think the "next-level players" issue is two-fold. First and foremost, it's a matter of Arkansas being so overwhelmingly guard-oriented. More succinctly, we're a short state. 2nd, academics. Arkansas lags behind nearly every state academically, and that hurts many of our prospects when it comes time for those standardized tests.
That was a major thrust of my post. What teams? Who? We haven't had a team show up on the National Radar in years. If a top team from here beats a team from West Plains or Cape Girardeau that hardly qualifies as top regional action. For the past 5 years FS1 and ESPN have been showing a plethora of high school basketball games. Never mind the staples, California, Florida, New York, Georgia and Illinois they have had teams from Louisiana, Alabama and Tennessee. Never do you see one of our teams.
Quote from: Rayburn on January 11, 2018, 03:10:40 pm
If you're a bona fide DI basketball player, I agree you shouldn't play football. Otherwise, that is bad, bad advice. There are way too many kids that don't play football because they think they're basketball prospects when really they would give themselves a much better chance of getting to the next level in football, for just the reasons you stated about skill vs. raw athletic ability.
Totally agree.
Quote from: JessieP on January 12, 2018, 07:36:45 am
That was a major thrust of my post. What teams? Who? We haven't had a team show up on the National Radar in years. If a top team from here beats a team from West Plains or Cape Girardeau that hardly qualifies as top regional action. For the past 5 years FS1 and ESPN have been showing a plethora of high school basketball games. Never mind the staples, California, Florida, New York, Georgia and Illinois they have had teams from Louisiana, Alabama and Tennessee. Never do you see one of our teams.
Didn't espn cover a Malik Monk game with Bentonville? Also, we have had McDonalds all americans in the past10-12 years. A few girls teams have been ranked top 25 nationally in the last decade: Fayetteville and NLR in particular. Surely, one the the 3peat NLR boys clubs was in the top 25 nationally when KeVaughn was there?
Some of the LR Hall teams have been on the national radar too, when Portis was there, and AJ Walton.
When Fayeteville had Gulley, maybe so.
I mean, there's alot of us that want to see things improve, the things you can control, like the improvement of skill levels, like shooting. But nobody is in control of how many 6'9" monsters we put out, or 6'7 James Andersons who can make jump shots from Al Dillard distance.
It's not like the sky has fallen and the apocolypse has taken place...
Jonesboro and Parkview have both been ranked nationally recently.
We have also had AAU and EYBL teams prominent on the national level.
Somewhere in this consideration, the squeezing of the HS basketball calendar should be considered too. The way so many sports overlap these days (from fall to winter, winter to spring) when an athlete finds him or her self in a position where a sport needs to go, the winter sport is often the one to suffer so that athlete can get something of a break.
Quote from: sevenof400 on January 13, 2018, 11:27:19 am
Somewhere in this consideration, the squeezing of the HS basketball calendar should be considered too. The way so many sports overlap these days (from fall to winter, winter to spring) when an athlete finds him or her self in a position where a sport needs to go, the winter sport is often the one to suffer so that athlete can get something of a break.
not a bad idea. But it seems the oppoyhapoens at times, like FB having an additional week0 game option. Would be nice if there was a one week moratorium in between major seasonal changes. Except for playoffs I guess
Quote from: sevenof400 on January 13, 2018, 11:27:19 am
Somewhere in this consideration, the squeezing of the HS basketball calendar should be considered too. The way so many sports overlap these days (from fall to winter, winter to spring) when an athlete finds him or her self in a position where a sport needs to go, the winter sport is often the one to suffer so that athlete can get something of a break.
Outstanding point, that never occured to me but you are correct. We have a couple football players that when football ended that Friday night they went to basketball practice Saturday morning. Many of these kids started in traveling teams in elementary school, they play year round. By their senior year they are burned out.
Quote from: JessieP on January 09, 2018, 07:55:48 pm
I have a question. Not being negative, I am genuinely curious. What is the deal with Arkansas High School Basketball? Arkansas is ranked 32nd in population yet the number of AHS Basketball players getting scholarships per capita ranks us 43rd. The number of teams ranked Nationally puts us at 41st. These numbers are factored per capita so our size is not the issue. In Basketball we're down there with the Dakotas and Vermont.
In Football we are more than respectable, using the same criteria we ranked 17th in Football! We send more players to the next level then some states with double the population. For a State with just over 3 million people a ranking of 17 is incredible. The numbers in Baseball are not as impressive but still very respectable. We ranked 24th in Baseball.
It's not a Deep South issue because Louisiana, Alabama and Georgia are ranked in the Top 20 in High School Hoops. What are your thoughts? Is it a lack of interest at the youth level? Lack of funds? It's bizarre because I've seen a packed gym of rabid cheering fans for a Jr High girls game. Why are we so far behind in Basketball? 247 Sports calls our AAU teams "luke warm at best". I can't figure out how we're almost elite in Football, upper half in Baseball and bringing up the rear in Basketball. Any thoughts?
I know what its why were that way there are state out there that is more powerful then Arkansas that part of it there state like California, Florida ,Pennsylvania, Nevada, Alabama, Illinois , Texas that most of every school in highly rank
Quote from: JessieP on January 12, 2018, 07:36:45 am
That was a major thrust of my post. What teams? Who? We haven't had a team show up on the National Radar in years. If a top team from here beats a team from West Plains or Cape Girardeau that hardly qualifies as top regional action. For the past 5 years FS1 and ESPN have been showing a plethora of high school basketball games. Never mind the staples, California, Florida, New York, Georgia and Illinois they have had teams from Louisiana, Alabama and Tennessee. Never do you see one of our teams.
I think ESPN just did a mini doc on last year's Jonesboro team. Also, playing on ESPN doesn't mean anything except you've got a high profile recruit. They don't care about the best teams. Malik Monk and Bentonville was on ESPN numerous times. So was Sylvan Hills and Archie Goodwin. I'm coming from the perspective of someone who follows Central Arkansas basketball closely for the last 15+ years. Things like Parkview winning that huge Whattaburger tournament in Dallas a few years ago. Jacksonville High won a Christmas tournament a few years ago in which they beat "basketball academy" teams from Dallas and Chicago, as well as one of the top private schools in OKC.
AAU ball does not reflect real basketball. It's a talent showcase for the individuals. The games aren't games as much as they are vessels for recruiters to scout individuals.
Futhermore, national high school rankings are the most meaningless endeavors in all sports coverage. They are completely subjective and most of the time the highest rated teams are the ones with the most self-promoting coach. The "national level" is not something any high school team, player or coach should ever strive for. It is utterly fleeting and totally meaningless.
Parkview dang near won that Whattaburger Tournament this year. Lost by 2 in the semis to the team who won it handily the next night
Quote from: Rayburn on January 18, 2018, 01:16:41 pm
I think ESPN just did a mini doc on last year's Jonesboro team. Also, playing on ESPN doesn't mean anything except you've got a high profile recruit. They don't care about the best teams. Malik Monk and Bentonville was on ESPN numerous times. So was Sylvan Hills and Archie Goodwin. I'm coming from the perspective of someone who follows Central Arkansas basketball closely for the last 15+ years. Things like Parkview winning that huge Whattaburger tournament in Dallas a few years ago. Jacksonville High won a Christmas tournament a few years ago in which they beat "basketball academy" teams from Dallas and Chicago, as well as one of the top private schools in OKC.
AAU ball does not reflect real basketball. It's a talent showcase for the individuals. The games aren't games as much as they are vessels for recruiters to scout individuals.
Futhermore, national high school rankings are the most meaningless endeavors in all sports coverage. They are completely subjective and most of the time the highest rated teams are the ones with the most self-promoting coach. The "national level" is not something any high school team, player or coach should ever strive for. It is utterly fleeting and totally meaningless.
Nice points... I'll take your remarks about AAU and add a bit...
It's a racket. The mafia has it's hand pulling the AAU strings. Look at all the bribes and under the table pay offs for AAU players. How much money are folks making off of that racket. It is dirty.
I'd like to the see the article and the year they did the story because Arkansas is generally more regarded as a basketball state than it is a football state.
All this is based off my opinion but I will say i watch alot of football basketball in the states that border but in football were probably only consistently better (let say top 5 teams) then Mississippi. The rest are mostly other wise.
In basketball though our teams are consistently better than Louisiana and Mississippi and with Missouri, Oklahoma, and Texas it can depend on the year. We could probably compete with Tennessee but we wouldn't beat their top 2 teams. Were more even with those states though.
A couple of years ago Parkview beat a team that ended up winning the 6a state title when they beat Plano West at the Whataburger tournament. This year are the Neosho Holiday Classic North little rock beat the Texas defending state champs in Cy falls. I believe they are in the top 10 in Texas this year. So the quality in basketball is there.
Maybe that studY is only based on top end talent.
Quote from: Neckred on January 10, 2018, 12:09:06 pm
Look at the last 20 players to go play D1 basketball from Arkansas. Zero played HS football for 3 years. It's pretty standard across the nation. Most D1 basketball players do not play football or baseball
Justice Hill plays football (Razorback b-ball signee).
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on January 22, 2018, 04:03:48 pm
Justice Hill plays football (Razorback b-ball signee).
He has played one year of HS football. Zero of the last 20 D1 players from Arkansas have played 3 years of HS football. Maybe the reason Justice doesn't shoot well is too much football.....
Justice also started for the senior high football team as a freshman once the ninth grade season was over.
He didn't play as a sophomore to sit out and work on his jump shot, but came back and played this year. He is planning on playing football as a senior because he thinks his team can win a state title.
He then plans on graduating at semester and going to Fayetteville to begin his basketball career. Whether he plays for the Hogs next spring or just practices and becomes acclimated has yet to be decided.
Quote from: Rocket23 on January 23, 2018, 01:59:57 pm
Justice also started for the senior high football team as a freshman once the ninth grade season was over.
He didn't play as a sophomore to sit out and work on his jump shot, but came back and played this year. He is planning on playing football as a senior because he thinks his team can win a state title.
He then plans on graduating at semester and going to Fayetteville to begin his basketball career. Whether he plays for the Hogs next spring or just practices and becomes acclimated has yet to be decided.
He is pretty dang good at both sports. Better shot at NFL than the NBA I think.
Quote from: scrapdig on January 23, 2018, 02:56:10 pm
He is pretty dang good at both sports. Better shot at NFL than the NBA I think.
Based solely on his size (vertical), I would tend to agree with this. He was lightning quick and I'm sure he hasn't gotten any slower. Whatever he chooses, best of luck to him.
Quote from: Rocket23 on January 23, 2018, 01:59:57 pm
Justice also started for the senior high football team as a freshman once the ninth grade season was over.
He didn't play as a sophomore to sit out and work on his jump shot, but came back and played this year. He is planning on playing football as a senior because he thinks his team can win a state title.
He then plans on graduating at semester and going to Fayetteville to begin his basketball career. Whether he plays for the Hogs next spring or just practices and becomes acclimated has yet to be decided.
Somebody needs to tell that kid the truth and stop letting him believe that nonsense!
Hill will be playing big minutes for Arkansas a year from now
Quote from: Rocket23 on January 23, 2018, 01:59:57 pm
Justice also started for the senior high football team as a freshman once the ninth grade season was over.
He didn't play as a sophomore to sit out and work on his jump shot, but came back and played this year. He is planning on playing football as a senior because he thinks his team can win a state title.
He then plans on graduating at semester and going to Fayetteville to begin his basketball career. Whether he plays for the Hogs next spring or just practices and becomes acclimated has yet to be decided.
Now that LRC has been promoted to the Central Conference they may have a shot :D
Quote from: 4real on January 10, 2018, 10:32:24 pm
Listen bud, my first name is Serious, my last name is Lee... However, my friends call me Joker. So, I give you permission to call me Joker now...
I get what you are saying that Arkansans have been lacking in our basketball skills. Another thread that has already been beat down like a dead horse is dedicated to this very idea. The demise of skill is attributed to several obvious factors such as electronics and distractions for kids today.
However, I completely disagree with your statement that we are a top producer compared to the other 49 states in top football talent. If that were true, the Hogs would. It be stuck at an FCS level for the better part of this decade. I don't put a lot of value in bearing about all of the D1 kids that end up at Schools outside of the SEC, Big12, etc. for every 1st and 2nd round footbydraft pick since 2000, there have been just as many drafted by the nba from our state.
So, to simplify the conversation, we will agree that we need a desperately aggressive approach to improving the shooting skills of Arkansas HS BB players in a world where teenagers are married to iPhones, social media, x box, instant gratification, being pampered, not expecting to have to earn anything, entitlement, etc.
This conversation might not seem so bad if the Hogs had been able to sign kids like James Anderson, Archie Griffin, Austin Reeves, KeVaughn Allen and Malik Monk, to name a few.
Don't you mean Archie Goodwin?
lol, good point
Quote from: Rocket23 on January 13, 2018, 06:13:06 am
Jonesboro and Parkview have both been ranked nationally recently.
We have also had AAU and EYBL teams prominent on the national level.
Jonesboro finished 13th in the USA Today Poll last year.