Small school vs Big school

[Dragon I]

I posted this in the JC/Hazen thread, but thought it could use it's own thread.  We have examples of small school powers beating big school powers, yet high school football fans in the state of Arkansas for the most part think it can't happen and the small school would be destroyed.  Once more, I'm not talking about a small school playing a 5 A schedule, I'm saying 1 game.  Why is it in other states, especially LA and TX, you see small schools playing big schools all the time, with the small schools winning quite often.  But in AR, most of the fans act like the small schools wouldn't stand a chance, and we very seldom see the games anyway.  Both of those states produce way more college talent so you would think the small schools wouldn't stand a chance but they do it every year.  This years JC squad is ridiculously loaded for a 2A school, but none of y'all think they could even play Wynne close. What gives?  The quality of high school football in those states is miles ahead of Arkansas, so you would think it would be even closer here.

[Proud Buckaroo]

My only opinion would be because people look at Warren. They probably play the toughest non-conference schedule of anyone. Playing up to 7A, and playing up to 5A. They play them close, but the lack of depth is what hurts them. I personally would like to see Junction play someone in 4A/5A. Not to see them lose, or to say, "We told you that you couldn't do it." Just to see if they can actually compete.

[Dayton Kitchens]

In my opinion,  there might be a reluctance by far larger schools to "play down" against elite smaller schools and risk losing.   Because obviously a much larger school is expected to win.   Thus they gain little from winning and suffer considerable embarrassment if they lose.

[big E]

PA'S enrollment is that of a 3a school and because of a multiplier they should be 4a but choose to play 5-a.And they whipped a school twice there size so don't tell me it can't happen.

[Coach95]

Well Hazen played Osceola 3A this year and took them at their place to the wood shed 50-18, and Osceola made a run into the quarter finals only loosing to Charleston who will prob be the 3a champ...so yes it does happen

[Proud Buckaroo]

"Probably."

[footballfan-tastic]

Sure some smaller schools can compete with larger schools, but not most.  Also be careful at the schools you use for your comparison.  A (and I hate to open this can of worms) private school that can recruit kids to their school and has a large available base of clients is better able to amass a higher level of athletes.  Look at the average small school, small community and then compare.  Also, (another can of worms) some districts seem to have an unusual ability to gain student/athletes from nearby areas.  Finally, in order to convince folks the small schools can compete, you have to make a case with ordinary, average joes getting it done against bigger schools.

[HorseFeathers]

When I was in School Hector split with 4A Dover 1-1...We lost the first year 32-26(Sophmore QB got picked off 2 or 3 times), the Second year we were a TD underdog per Hootens and we were up 40-0 at the half....Don't know which side didn't renew the series though.

[bleudog]

PA'S enrollment is that of a 3a school and because of a multiplier they should be 4a but choose to play 5-a.And they whipped a school twice there size so don't tell me it can't happen.

As of the 2010 census, Little Rock had a city proper population of 193,524. The Little Rock-North Little Rock-Conway, AR Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) had a population of 724,385 people in the 2013 census estimate.

I don't know how many people live in a 5-10 mile radius of the PA campus, but I'd think even that would be a lot more than in the average 3A public school district.

[N2DEEP]

PA'S enrollment is that of a 3a school and because of a multiplier they should be 4a but choose to play 5-a.And they whipped a school twice there size so don't tell me it can't happen.

As of the 2010 census, Little Rock had a city proper population of 193,524. The Little Rock-North Little Rock-Conway, AR Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) had a population of 724,385 people in the 2013 census estimate.

I don't know how many people live in a 5-10 mile radius of the PA campus, but I'd think even that would be a lot more than in the average 3A public school district.

He said enrollment not possible enrollment. PA requires a more financially able student and a higher income level family to attend. So most people in LR/NLR would be excluded unless special arrangementas were made for that student-athlete. Also, now with open campus/ school choice policies any school can practically recruit any other player in nearby areas.

Some schools do not wish to look at a possible loss, and or some schools do not want to give a possible loss. I mean JC would be putting up an undeafeated streak to play a higher class school, they may not want to possibly jeopardize that. Also JC is a long drive for many larger schools, Charleston would be like 4-5 hrs. Schools should look for good competition in the local 1-2 hr range for the regu;ar season and sometimes schools need the tougher teams to prepare for the entire year.

[THA TRUTH]

If eldo and jc played it would be good but won't happen

[bleudog]

PA'S enrollment is that of a 3a school and because of a multiplier they should be 4a but choose to play 5-a.And they whipped a school twice there size so don't tell me it can't happen.

As of the 2010 census, Little Rock had a city proper population of 193,524. The Little Rock-North Little Rock-Conway, AR Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) had a population of 724,385 people in the 2013 census estimate.

I don't know how many people live in a 5-10 mile radius of the PA campus, but I'd think even that would be a lot more than in the average 3A public school district.

He said enrollment not possible enrollment. PA requires a more financially able student and a higher income level family to attend. So most people in LR/NLR would be excluded unless special arrangementas were made for that student-athlete. Also, now with open campus/ school choice policies any school can practically recruit any other player in nearby areas.

Some schools do not wish to look at a possible loss, and or some schools do not want to give a possible loss. I mean JC would be putting up an undeafeated streak to play a higher class school, they may not want to possibly jeopardize that. Also JC is a long drive for many larger schools, Charleston would be like 4-5 hrs. Schools should look for good competition in the local 1-2 hr range for the regu;ar season and sometimes schools need the tougher teams to prepare for the entire year.

I saw what he wrote.  My point was 3A schools have a smaller population around them than PA, U$C or other private schools in larger metropolitan areas have.  Even with public school choice, a transfer-from school is I think limited to a 3% loss of students per year and then that door shuts.  Private schools have no such limitations.  And their selection criteria is at their discretion.

And as far as the demographics go.  The more "financially able" families can spend more time and money on kids camps and out of season training/competition opportunities, as well at their kids normally can concentrate on athletics while other not so financially blessed student athletes might have to work in addition to athletic participation.   And who's to say those "special arrangementas" you mentioned don't go to students with special talents?

I could be wrong, but I just think this thread was started with small public school vs big public schools in mind.  Now if this gets to big private schools vs small private schools that might be apples to apples.

[heavyhittaz_7]

JC and warren would be a good one one too. Thats about an hour and a half drive both ways mabe two.

[STUNNA]

Warren maybe the best in the state when it comes to playing against bigger and usually better competition.

[leedog95]

They should just play an overall state championship after the conference state championships. That would settle this question.....

[Wilson]

Never happen.   the higher class schools . .i e 5A -7A would never agree to it.   they are the reason the overall basketball state tourney was scrapped in the late 80's. .too many times the lower class schools would win the overall title . . leaving the 4A state champion with a bad taste in their mouth after getting their butts handed to them by a class A or AA school like Eudora

[BrianfromCarlisle]

The overall was played as late as 92.

[littlec2964]

The overall was played as late as 92.

1992 – LR Parkview (2)
1991 – West Memphis (3)
1990 – Pine Bluff (2)
1989 – Blytheville
1988 – LR Parkview
1987 – Fayetteville
1986 – Dermott
1985 – Magnolia
1984 – LR Hall (2)
1983 – LR Hall
1982 – Gurdon
1981 – West Memphis (2)
1980 – West Memphis
1979 – Parkdale
1978 – Dumas
1977 – Pine Bluff
1976 – Conway
1975 – LR Central (3)
1974 – FS Northside
1973 – LR Central (2)
1972 – LR Central

Not seeing many small schools in the list.

[Lions84]

In my opinion,  there might be a reluctance by far larger schools to "play down" against elite smaller schools and risk losing.   Because obviously a much larger school is expected to win.   Thus they gain little from winning and suffer considerable embarrassment if they lose.

During the Barton Streak the Barton Booster club guaranteed a $5,000 dollar gate( later it went to 10,000) and still had everyone in the state at the time duck playing them Home and Home.

I would love to see some of the 4A boys tie it on with JC.

[BrianfromCarlisle]

Didn't realize 92 was it.  Stuttgart was there. Lost to a Lazerick Griffin led Eudora team. Parkview was ridiculously talented.

[Lions84]

Never happen.   the higher class schools . .i e 5A -7A would never agree to it.   they are the reason the overall basketball state tourney was scrapped in the late 80's. .too many times the lower class schools would win the overall title . . leaving the 4A state champion with a bad taste in their mouth after getting their butts handed to them by a class A or AA school like Eudora

YEP cause it happened several times before.

[STUNNA]

It's a whole different ball game playing up classes. Their is a chance but it's a tiny one..

[Wilson]

They won it a few times. . and that enough. . plus there wete upper class teams knocked off before the championship. . .my recollection was late 80's. . so i missed it by a few years

[FD4]

D1, this year would have been a great year for JC and Wynne to spar.  Afterall, we only beat JC by a measly 36 pounds in weight lifting this year.  Something I was well proud of.  Any time you beat JC in weight lifting your doing something right for your football program.  The thing with the overall as late as 92, I dont remember it at all and it must have been only voluntary participation.  I followed the Jaguars from 68 through the 90's and Wynne as well.  Dont ever recall any type of overall championship in football.  Perhaps he was talking about basketball, they did it back then.  Guy Perkins used to rule girls overall in those days.  Yeah, D1, JC vs Wynne would be a great one, I would like to see a here there next year if Coach Hill would.  Tell Dave to contact him, maybe it could happen.

[Wilson]

I've never heard of an overall football title unless it was pre classifications . . kinda like how baseball was just one class untill 78 (of which JC has 2 overall baseball titles) 

[bleudog]

D1, this year would have been a great year for JC and Wynne to spar.  Afterall, we only beat JC by a measly 36 pounds in weight lifting this year.  Something I was well proud of.  Any time you beat JC in weight lifting your doing something right for your football program.  The thing with the overall as late as 92, I dont remember it at all and it must have been only voluntary participation.  I followed the Jaguars from 68 through the 90's and Wynne as well.  Dont ever recall any type of overall championship in football.  Perhaps he was talking about basketball, they did it back then.  Guy Perkins used to rule girls overall in those days.  Yeah, D1, JC vs Wynne would be a great one, I would like to see a here there next year if Coach Hill would.  Tell Dave to contact him, maybe it could happen.

Now weightlifting is a sport where I don't think a small school is at as much of a disadvantage to a big school.

The total that won the 6A/7A wasn't even a medal total in the overall.

2014 State results
Saturday at Dover High School
TEAM RESULTS

CLASS 7A/6A SCHOOL WEIGHT (BENCH PRESS, POWER CLEAN)
Rogers Heritage 4,710;
West Memphis 4,695;
El Dorado 4,640

CLASS 5A SCHOOL WEIGHT (BENCH PRESS, POWER CLEAN)
Wynne 5,060;
Alma 4,630;
Beebe 4,340

CLASS 4A SCHOOL WEIGHT (BENCH PRESS, POWER CLEAN)
Booneville 4,880;
Pottsville 4,790;
Clinton 4,615

CLASS 3A SCHOOL WEIGHT (BENCH PRESS, POWER CLEAN)
Fountain Lake 4,715;
Yellville-Summit 4,320;
Benton Harmony Grove 4,230

CLASS 2A SCHOOL WEIGHT (BENCH PRESS, POWER CLEAN)
Junction City 5,035;
Rison 4,610;
Hazen 4,500

[Hornet4ever]

I personally think JC is a loaded team with tons of athletes, especially for a 2A school. However, Junction has large pool of athletes to choose from, I mean come on look at their team there's tons of em. However, when you move up classes, 4A-5A there's an even larger pool of athletes to choose from. My point being, yes Junction is good in 2A, we all can see that by them beating whoever 89-2 every week. But it's not going to be that easy when you play a team like Warren, or Charleston or dare I even say Wynne or Pulaski? I mean come on, you got a taste of what a different class is like week 1. Junction played class 3A Smackover. Granted they did win? But, from what I've read and seen on here unless everyone is lying it sounded like a close game? It wasn't 53-0 at half like every other game this season and that's just one class up to 3A. I really do feel like Junction City could contend every week and be a powerhouse in 3A, but you start getting bigger and larger and faster opponents every class you move up. An I mean don't get me wrong? There is probably some
Absolute crap 4A-5A schools that junction could throw dukes with all 4 quarters but I just have a hard time believing that they could beat teams like El-Dorado and west Memphis etc. El Dorado looks just like junction city just bigger and faster. This is just my look at it, I know most of the JC posters are confident which is good, but watch out, the bigger the class, the tougher the game.

[Dragon I]

That's actually what most of us have been saying.  A one game deal, JC would compete with anyone.  A season?  Most likely not.

[STUNNA]

That's actually what most of us have been saying.  A one game deal, JC would compete with anyone.  A season?  Most likely not.

Maybe up one or two classes

[Pick_DA_EAGLES]

I personally think JC is a loaded team with tons of athletes, especially for a 2A school. However, Junction has large pool of athletes to choose from, I mean come on look at their team there's tons of em. However, when you move up classes, 4A-5A there's an even larger pool of athletes to choose from. My point being, yes Junction is good in 2A, we all can see that by them beating whoever 89-2 every week. But it's not going to be that easy when you play a team like Warren, or Charleston or dare I even say Wynne or Pulaski? I mean come on, you got a taste of what a different class is like week 1. Junction played class 3A Smackover. Granted they did win? But, from what I've read and seen on here unless everyone is lying it sounded like a close game? It wasn't 53-0 at half like every other game this season and that's just one class up to 3A. I really do feel like Junction City could contend every week and be a powerhouse in 3A, but you start getting bigger and larger and faster opponents every class you move up. An I mean don't get me wrong? There is probably some
Absolute crap 4A-5A schools that junction could throw dukes with all 4 quarters but I just have a hard time believing that they could beat teams like El-Dorado and west Memphis etc. El Dorado looks just like junction city just bigger and faster. This is just my look at it, I know most of the JC posters are confident which is good, but watch out, the bigger the class, the tougher the game.

In all reality, not every game was 53-0 at half. Lol

[amehr36]

There is not a team in the state that I'd be scared to watch us play.  Having said that I know we'd lose to several but we'd definitely beat quite a few "unexpectedly" as well.

[STUNNA]

There is not a team in the state that I'd be scared to watch us play.  Having said that I know we'd lose to several but we'd definitely beat quite a few "unexpectedly" as well.

I think junction city would have success but not sure against the upper class powerhouses.

[amehr36]

Up to 4A. I think we'd definitely win more than we lost (3A I think we'd win against anyone including charleston). 5a and up I legit think we'd be a solid .500 team or a little better.

[STUNNA]

Up to 4A. I think we'd definitely win more than we lost (3A I think we'd win against anyone including charleston). 5a and up I legit think we'd be a solid .500 team or a little better.

I think junction city could have won possibly 5/8 of the 4A conferences..

[WPWells]

Up to 4A. I think we'd definitely win more than we lost (3A I think we'd win against anyone NOT including charleston). 5a and up I legit think we'd be a solid .500 team or a little better.

FIFY

[NLR4Eva]

There is not a team in the state that I'd be scared to watch us play.  Having said that I know we'd lose to several but we'd definitely beat quite a few "unexpectedly" as well.

NLR/Fayetteville/Bentonville/Southside/Northside/Conway/Bryant would win handily, in all honesty.

[THA TRUTH]

Well that's all 7a so I'll take 6-2

[Just My Opinion]

The Overall Champion was played for Basketball not football.

[amehr36]

Up to 4A. I think we'd definitely win more than we lost (3A I think we'd win against anyone NOT including charleston). 5a and up I legit think we'd be a solid .500 team or a little better.

FIFY

So if Smack beats charleston what will your excuse be?

[WPWells]

Not happening, but if it did you and I both know the transitive property doesn't apply to sports

[amehr36]

I wouldn't be so sure about Charleston being a shoe in for the W. I realize just cause JC beat smack that doesn't, in itself, mean they would beat Charleston. I feel we'd beat Charleston simply because I think we're better.

[WPWells]

Okay if you think you're better, 12th Man has two questions:

1. How big would y'all beat us?
2. Have you seen Charleston play?

[Pick_DA_EAGLES]

Okay if you think you're better, 12th Man has two questions:

1. How big would y'all beat us?
2. Have you seen Charleston play?

Pick says your 2nd question should have been your first question. Without the answer to the 2nd one being "yes", Pick says it would be hard to answer the 1st question honestly.

Now see how retarded it looks posting in third person?

[dragondad]

I can't help but imagine the voice of Stone Cold Steve Austin every time I read a comment from 12th Man.

I keep waiting to read...."Cause 12th Man said so" at the end of his post.

[WPWells]

Nope but 12th Man is glad you envy him

[HorseFeathers]

Don't think it was envy that got pick to make that post....

[Pick_DA_EAGLES]

Don't think it was envy that got pick to make that post....

Correct, i dont envy anybody, especially someone who posts in third person and can't ge t his questions in proper order.

Because pick da eagles SAID SO. 💪💪💪

[fbisgreat]

Warren would beat jc BY 30 OR MORE.

[dragondad]

Warren would beat jc BY 30 OR MORE.

Nope!!! Put the crack pipe down before you rot your teeth.

[bearbacker52]

From what i have seen jc this year could compete and win against all classes.. The 6 and 7a's in the beginning would hesitate and say hey 2a school, we can coast and beat them.. Then when they are hit in the  mouth, they may or may not return to their a game which will be to late...I have seen most all classes this year...