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Why is there no tournament of champions for baseball?

Started by BossHogs, May 11, 2017, 08:48:12 am

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BossHogs

Why is there no tournament of champions for baseball or basketball. These Sports are way more even then people realize and I think many people would enjoy watching all the champions from each classification playing each other.

dirtbagbaseball

The baseball postseason could be turned into a really big deal if they changed the format.

OB11

Quote from: dirtbagbaseball on May 11, 2017, 09:21:18 am
The baseball postseason could be turned into a really big deal if they changed the format.

I would love to see a best of 3 series to determine a state champion.

LeftBench

I agree on the 3 game series in the championship. I think that's a great, and necessary, idea.

As for tournament of champions, I think it's a fun idea and wouldn't be against it. But, I think there's a possibility that it could be unnecessary. Once a team has won their state title, it's tough to get back up for a tourney of champions. Also, I wouldn't want to diminish the accomplishment of winning a state title in any way.

dirtbagbaseball

I just don't think 1 and done fits in a baseball tournament, but that's just me.

ricepig

Time constriction, these players are high school students. There's exams, graduation, various school functions, and not enough time to fit it all in. It would be nice to have double elimination tournaments, and a 3 game series for the finals, but there just isn't the time.

OB11

Quote from: ricepig on May 11, 2017, 10:03:32 am
Time constriction, these players are high school students. There's exams, graduation, various school functions, and not enough time to fit it all in. It would be nice to have double elimination tournaments, and a 3 game series for the finals, but there just isn't the time.

I think you could leave the single elimination tournament as is and then play a 3 game series over two days. Just do it during the Friday/Saturday that the championship games are played now. Use Baum and Fayetteville high school. Each classification gets at least one game at Baum.

ricepig

Quote from: OB11 on May 11, 2017, 10:20:40 am
I think you could leave the single elimination tournament as is and then play a 3 game series over two days. Just do it during the Friday/Saturday that the championship games are played now. Use Baum and Fayetteville high school. Each classification gets at least one game at Baum.

A possible 21 games in 2 days, I'd hate to be the tournament director that had to keep that running, lol.

OB11

Quote from: ricepig on May 11, 2017, 10:30:59 am
A possible 21 games in 2 days, I'd hate to be the tournament director that had to keep that running, lol.

I'm sure the AAA could figure something out.  ::) Haha!

2fe

There's time to do best of 3 series.  Other states that are bigger than Arkansas do it.  There just have to be people in charge that are willing to do it.

LeftBench

Quote from: 2fe on May 11, 2017, 11:08:00 am
There's time to do best of 3 series.  Other states that are bigger than Arkansas do it.  There just have to be people in charge that are willing to do it.
Exactly right. I know Tennessee does a 3 game championship.

2fe

Quote from: LeftBench on May 11, 2017, 12:14:27 pm
Exactly right. I know Tennessee does a 3 game championship.

Louisiana does it and I think Texas, too.

ricepig

Quote from: OB11 on May 11, 2017, 10:36:55 am
I'm sure the AAA could figure something out.  ::) Haha!

They've played one game in the 6A tournament and they are already running 45 minutes behind. Now, the could do it, but it would have to be at separate locations.

spoof1530

As someone that is a huge Baseball fan, the answer is pretty simple and sadly unfair. As long as Football is King, and Basketball is a distant second, Baseball, Track or any other sport will barely get any attention. While it would be pretty neat to see it happen, it will never ever happen. 

BaseballPlayer11

Quote from: OB11 on May 11, 2017, 10:20:40 am
I think you could leave the single elimination tournament as is and then play a 3 game series over two days. Just do it during the Friday/Saturday that the championship games are played now. Use Baum and Fayetteville high school. Each classification gets at least one game at Baum.

You could theoretically get Arvest Ballpark also.

OB11

Quote from: BaseballPlayer11 on August 31, 2017, 09:19:21 am
You could theoretically get Arvest Ballpark also.

I always forget the Naturals play in Fayetteville! That would be a cool experience for teams.

Head Lion

We could Busch Stadium, it will be free in Octobers for a loooonnnnggggggg time. hehehehehe

TheSpecial

Quote from: OB11 on May 11, 2017, 09:22:32 am
I would love to see a best of 3 series to determine a state champion.

Most southeastern states do this, and it shows the better team.

Nomad1324

Quote from: Head Lion on August 31, 2017, 12:43:49 pm
We could Busch Stadium, it will be free in Octobers for a loooonnnnggggggg time. hehehehehe

I'm guessing Cub fan, and unless I'm mistaken, unless STL hits 109 years of drought, still better off...lol ;D

ThiefOfDiamonds8

Just tossing this out there...
Does the State Finals HAVE to be at the same location for all classifications? What would the benefits or disadvantages be if you selected 7 of the nicest stadiums around the state (colleges included), and played a best of 3 series at each one. Each site would host a Friday Night, Saturday Day, and Saturday Night (if necessary). The classifications could be on a rotation so each one doesn't play at the same spot in back-to-back years.
.....just a thought to strike up conversation.

ThiefOfDiamonds8

Quote from: Head Lion on August 31, 2017, 12:43:49 pm
We could Busch Stadium, it will be free in Octobers for a loooonnnnggggggg time. hehehehehe

This!!!!  ;D ;D ;D #GoCubs

OB11

Quote from: ThiefOfDiamonds8 on September 06, 2017, 02:05:41 pm
Just tossing this out there...
Does the State Finals HAVE to be at the same location for all classifications? What would the benefits or disadvantages be if you selected 7 of the nicest stadiums around the state (colleges included), and played a best of 3 series at each one. Each site would host a Friday Night, Saturday Day, and Saturday Night (if necessary). The classifications could be on a rotation so each one doesn't play at the same spot in back-to-back years.
.....just a thought to strike up conversation.

I think this is a great idea but it all comes back to the AAA. If you have it in 7 different places, that means the AAA has to coordinate 7 different sites and they definitely don't want to do that. Having it at one place keeps everything streamlined for them. From a fans perspective, having it all at Baum allows you to see 14 of the best teams in the state in a two day span.

I would be all for having it in different places.

BossHogs

Well this may not be at every school but at Woodlawn it is an absolute honor and privilege to play at Baum because they want to play were the Razorbacks play. It should be played where the kids want it to be played which I assume is where most kids want to play their state championship game. Sorry but it is staying at Baum where it belongs. They aren't going to change that just because some parents don't want to have to travel all the way to the corner of the state.

ThiefOfDiamonds8

Quote from: BossHogs on September 07, 2017, 04:45:46 pm
Well this may not be at every school but at Woodlawn it is an absolute honor and privilege to play at Baum because they want to play were the Razorbacks play. It should be played where the kids want it to be played which I assume is where most kids want to play their state championship game. Sorry but it is staying at Baum where it belongs. They aren't going to change that just because some parents don't want to have to travel all the way to the corner of the state.

That's fine. And I see your point. I was just throwing out an idea that would try and allow the finals to become a Best of 3. I've always thought a high school baseball championship should be played in a short series like that.
I guess I don't see how other surrounding states do it but we can't here in Arkansas. We aren't trying to re-invent the wheel or anything. Just copy what the other states are doing that are having success with it.

BossHogs

I don't object to a best of three series. It would be fun to watch but again kids want to play at Baum. So unless the kids are ok with playing somewhere different this is unlikely to change anytime soon.

CoolBreeze

Quote from: BossHogs on September 13, 2017, 04:16:59 pm
I don't object to a best of three series. It would be fun to watch but again kids want to play at Baum. So unless the kids are ok with playing somewhere different this is unlikely to change anytime soon.
I doubt the decision would have anything to do with what the kids want. It's what AAA wants.

ThiefOfDiamonds8

Quote from: CoolBreeze on September 13, 2017, 07:26:45 pm
I doubt the decision would have anything to do with what the kids want. It's what AAA wants.

Agree +1

OB11

Quote from: BossHogs on September 13, 2017, 04:16:59 pm
I don't object to a best of three series. It would be fun to watch but again kids want to play at Baum. So unless the kids are ok with playing somewhere different this is unlikely to change anytime soon.

I know they have played the finals at UCA before because of weather. I don't think the state championship means any less to those teams because they weren't won at Baum.

freethrow

Quote from: 2fe on May 11, 2017, 12:18:32 pm
Louisiana does it and I think Texas, too.

Texas has 4 teams to state tournament in semi-finals. Single elimination.

There is an option for single game or 2/3 each step along the way.

CoolBreeze

Quote from: freethrow on September 14, 2017, 06:42:29 pm
Texas has 4 teams to state tournament in semi-finals. Single elimination.

There is an option for single game or 2/3 each step along the way.
Texas also has 2 state champions in football for each class. Not necessarily the example I'd want to follow.

freethrow

Just stating the facts relative to 2fe's post.
No opinion expressed.

friscokid

Quote from: freethrow on September 14, 2017, 06:42:29 pm
Texas has 4 teams to state tournament in semi-finals. Single elimination.

There is an option for single game or 2/3 each step along the way.

The baseball playoffs in Texas last an eternity. It goes one round a week and the state finals are in mid-June, leaving 6 or 7 weeks until two-a-days. I much prefer how Arkansas does it — district, regional, state, done in 3 weekends (with a fourth for state finals).

PBR_GUYS

The First Pitch Classic will host teams from 7A-1A hosted the first week of the season and has some of the top programs in the state. Not a tournament of Champions but should give an opportunity to see alot of what the state has to offer.

Play-off format: Would love to see a change in format, I believe it makes sense to have regions bid or rotate all state tournaments. NWA, Jonesboro, Central SWA , SEA to host all classifications, making it feel more of an event situation for that area, and BTW very lucrative to those area businesses each year. Host the championship at one of the local University, if you have not traveled to all colleges in the state the facilities are impressive. Players would be just fine playing at A-State, Little Rock, UCA, UAPB, SAU, Henderson. The smaller venues may allow for a better atmosphere than Baum.

Baum is a special place and most kids dream of playing there but rotating venues would unify the state baseball community,

AAA and your superintendent control format and locations, mainly sups would have to present the changes, AAA listens to admins.

ThiefOfDiamonds8

Quote from: PBR_GUYS on December 12, 2017, 07:25:32 pm
The First Pitch Classic will host teams from 7A-1A hosted the first week of the season and has some of the top programs in the state. Not a tournament of Champions but should give an opportunity to see alot of what the state has to offer.

Play-off format: Would love to see a change in format, I believe it makes sense to have regions bid or rotate all state tournaments. NWA, Jonesboro, Central SWA , SEA to host all classifications, making it feel more of an event situation for that area, and BTW very lucrative to those area businesses each year. Host the championship at one of the local University, if you have not traveled to all colleges in the state the facilities are impressive. Players would be just fine playing at A-State, Little Rock, UCA, UAPB, SAU, Henderson. The smaller venues may allow for a better atmosphere than Baum.

Baum is a special place and most kids dream of playing there but rotating venues would unify the state baseball community,

AAA and your superintendent control format and locations, mainly sups would have to present the changes, AAA listens to admins.

Agree completely with this post. I was lucky enough to make it to Baum Stadium once. It was very exciting to be there. However, I didn't grow up a Razorback fan or anything so to me it was just exciting to play in a large stadium full of people like that. I believe the weight of actually playing in that game outweighs the location of the game (when still placing the game at a nice college stadium such as the ones mentioned in the post above). I think this gets more towns / sections of the state involved in high school baseball and it would be good for the game. With a small amount of marketing and advertising it could really boost attendance to these games, creating an unbelievable atmosphere, and making the baseball state finals something even more special then what it is now.

Unfortunately I think you are right with who the AAA listens to on topics. Sometimes they listen to administration; sometimes it feels as if they listen to nobody. If somebody does decide to present these ideas to them they would need to in a way that makes it beneficial to the AAA to make the changes.

T-Bone

December 13, 2017, 03:48:30 pm #34 Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 08:47:03 am by T-Bone
+2

couch-coach06

in softball they use too may still do .. have a tournament of champions in ltitle rock too kick off the next season .. where all the previous years champions came and played in a tournament .. that would be pretty cool .

BW2281

Quote from: dirtbagbaseball on May 11, 2017, 09:21:18 am
The baseball postseason could be turned into a really big deal if they changed the format.

You are absolutely correct!  AS big as baseball has become now there are tons of options for post season play.

Bruin501

Quote from: couch-coach06 on December 19, 2017, 08:47:00 am
in softball they use too may still do .. have a tournament of champions in ltitle rock too kick off the next season .. where all the previous years champions came and played in a tournament .. that would be pretty cool .

I actually LOVE this idea. Wouldn't be a true tournament of champions bc obviously the rosters will all change, but that'd be a great way to start off the season. I think it would be neat to have a single-elimination, 14-team tourney to start the season. The participants would be all of the state finalists from the previous year.

As for the venue definitely love Baum and for most kids, it does mean something to play where the Hogs play. But it's a secondary piece to the puzzle. Ultimately it's the state title that's important. Where they won it won't necessarily be something that's real important. I'd rather win the state title at UALR then lose it at Baum. 99% of kids would, too. There are a lot of great ballparks in this state. To me, it be well worth it have several locations if it meant the finals being a 3-game series.


ThiefOfDiamonds8

Another idea (a little off subject) that I have thought of is in regards to the 7-inning max rule for the preseason. Right now each team is only allowed to play in a 7-inning benefit game with the proceeds going towards the catastrophic insurance. In my opinion, that doesn't give a whole lot of time to help prepare for the season. So, why not allow 2 benefit games maximum per team. Leave the first one as is with the proceeds going towards the same as before. But the profits from the second game could be split between the AAA and a Charity of the Home School's choosing.

Teams wouldn't have to play the second benefit game if they didn't want to (or any benefit game at all for that matter). However, the AAA would benefit from this because they are increasing what they normally receive, local charities would benefit because now they are receiving donations, and the teams would be benefiting because they are receiving 7 extra innings to prepare for their season.

It seems like with the amount of rain that comes with this time of year it would help out with the possibilities of benefit games getting rained out.

BW2281

It is really all just craziness.  Basketball ends at the end of this week for most and next week you start baseball.... No real time to practice because coaches cant even think basketball right now.  Arms suffers, boys suffer and program suffers.  There has to be a better way.   They wonder why travel ball and showcase is dominating everything

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