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2016 Finals Attendance

Started by Brian G, December 10, 2016, 09:42:27 pm

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Brian G

CHAMPIONSHIP ATTENDANCE
2A 5113
3A 4552
4A 4421
5A 4975
6A 4348
7A 10152

monster_island

I know that was some bad weather for some of the other games, but it is good to see the 2A fans supporting their teams the way they are.

Razorback Red

I still think attendance would be even better with a better venue, same as in basketball.  War Memorial is old and run down.  I understand the need to be centrally located, so why not UCA?  They have a great facility. 

OK uses Tulsa's facilities and typically has over 20K at their 6A title game. 

Rulesman

First thing that has to happen is for UCA to want to host the finals. There's more to it than just saying "Let's play there."

ricepig

Quote from: Razorback Red on December 11, 2016, 06:00:52 pm
I still think attendance would be even better with a better venue, same as in basketball.  War Memorial is old and run down.  I understand the need to be centrally located, so why not UCA?  They have a great facility. 

OK uses Tulsa's facilities and typically has over 20K at their 6A title game.


Wiki says 9000 capacity, although the record in 12,500ish, plus you have that turf.......

Oldbadger

I think the goal posts at WM should be made to adjust to high school distance.  High schools use the stadium more than colleges.  It would be easy to do.  Just think of all the extra points that were missed this year.  I don't have the count but it made coaches change their playcalling.

Brian G

I've been calling for that on the FF Twitter acct.  Several other media members are as well.

I bet we see a change.

nastynice

Coach Jones has a thread about this on the 3a board. It definitely played a roll in most the games.

ricepig

Quote from: nastynice on December 12, 2016, 06:32:15 am
Coach Jones has a thread about this on the 3a board. It definitely played a roll in most the games.


It's the same width for everyone, I don't see it being an advantage, or disadvantage either way.

Brian G

Same could be said for a 10 ft 6 in goal in Hot Springs.

ricepig

Quote from: B.G. on December 12, 2016, 08:01:34 am
Same could be said for a 10 ft 6 in goal in Hot Springs.

Was it at PV there was a basketball game and they noticed at halftime the goal on one end hadn't been cranked down all the way?

As far as basketball, it effects every shot at the goal, the goalposts at WMS were only a very small percentage of plays. We played Catholic there this year, I don't seem to remember it being a problem, or anyone else complaining at their other home games.

WPWells

So if there's a team that goes for 2 every time and has around a 50% conversion rate, the narrower goalposts giving the other team a higher probability of missing doesn't provide an advantage?

ricepig

Quote from: Fred Bird on December 12, 2016, 08:38:07 am
So if there's a team that goes for 2 every time and has around a 50% conversion rate, the narrower goalposts giving the other team a higher probability of missing doesn't provide an advantage?

It's the same 2 1/2 yards for both teams, just as the 18'4" width is the same. You've got a very questionable kicker if he can't hit that, and yes, college guys miss them occasionally.

Longfellow

No it gives a team that doesn't kick a huge advantage, especially if the other team doesn't have the best kicker

ricepig

Quote from: Longfellow on December 12, 2016, 12:48:27 pm
No it gives a team that doesn't kick a huge advantage, especially if the other team doesn't have the best kicker

Lol, both teams run a play from 2 1/2 yards out if they wish to go for two points, absolutely no advantage.

WPWells

Consider the following situation:

Teams A and B are playing (we'll call them Warren and Nashville for argument's sake). Let's say Warren has a pretty reliable kicker and Nashville doesn't. Nashville scores early in the first half, and they decide to go for 2 as they have after every other score this season. They fail. The rest of the game is a defensive struggle, but on the last play of the game, Warren hits a Hail Mary to tie the game at 6. They bring in their kicker for the (presumably to win the championship) and he hits the upright, a kick that would have been good on high school goalposts. Nashville goes on to win in overtime.

How can you honestly say this is fair? You change the rules for one game.

ricepig

Quote from: Fred Bird on December 12, 2016, 01:43:18 pm
Consider the following situation:

Teams A and B are playing (we'll call them Warren and Nashville for argument's sake). Let's say Warren has a pretty reliable kicker and Nashville doesn't. Nashville scores early in the first half, and they decide to go for 2 as they have after every other score this season. They fail. The rest of the game is a defensive struggle, but on the last play of the game, Warren hits a Hail Mary to tie the game at 6. They bring in their kicker for the (presumably to win the championship) and he hits the upright, a kick that would have been good on high school goalposts. Nashville goes on to win in overtime.

How can you honestly say this is fair? You change the rules for one game.

It's fair because both teams are playing on the same field, both coaches know the widths of the goalposts. It isn't like they all the sudden say, "sorry, you know have to hit a 35 yarder for the extra point."

ricepig

Now, should the change them out, sure, but it's the same for everyone.

nastynice

No doubt it changes the way the games are coached and game planned for.

Rulesman

Quote from: nastynice on December 12, 2016, 06:08:54 pm
No doubt it changes the way the games are coached and game planned for.
Only to coaches to can't coach kickers.

WPWells

I'm quite sure most teams hire coaches who were kickers *eye roll*

sevenof400

Quote from: B.G. on December 12, 2016, 08:01:34 am
Same could be said for a 10 ft 6 in goal in Hot Springs.

Which would make keepers very happy......if horizontal...not so much....if vertical...

HorseFeathers

So why no outrage from Harding academys opponents? They've been playing on college goal posts for years....

ricepig

Quote from: HorseFeathers on December 12, 2016, 07:40:00 pm
So why no outrage from Harding academys opponents? They've been playing on college goal posts for years....

The same outrage from Catholic's opponents, crickets.......

Rulesman

Or early season non conference games played at WMS, UCA, Henderson, UA, ASU, etc.

WPWells

Because those games don't determine a champion....not that hard to grasp.

HorseFeathers

Quote from: Fred Bird on December 12, 2016, 08:43:47 pm
Because those games don't determine a champion....not that hard to grasp.

So why now? The games have been played there for at least 20 years? What's changed? The need for something to blame? I'm surprised this hasn't shown up on hamptons list of reasons they lost despite them not having a kicker...

Lumberjackfan1978

Quote from: ricepig on December 12, 2016, 01:37:02 pm
Lol, both teams run a play from 2 1/2 yards out if they wish to go for two points, absolutely no advantage.
some teams always kick extra points and some teams always go for two points so I could say it gives a little advantage to the team that practices going for two just like it gives the team that practices extra points the advantage.if a team never practices kicking extra points their not gonna make many

Wonderdog

Quote from: Fred Bird on December 12, 2016, 08:43:47 pm
Because those games don't determine a champion....not that hard to grasp.
I often times disagree with your approach on things, but you have a very good point here. I don't believe that any of the title games this season were won or lost due to the goal post width, but it probably has at some point before and will again at some point in the future. The 5A Batesville vs Morrilton title game from 2013 comes to mind. An unusually high number of extra point attempts were missed over the last two weekends. Coaches had to alter their decisions on PAT's. That is coaching however. I understand ricepig and Rulesman's posts that the playing field is equal for both teams, true. In that sense alone, I can see an argument for it being fair. There is however, the fact that several PAT's missed these past two weekends would have probably been good on regulation goal posts. I don't know which side of the fence I am on here.

ricepig

Quote from: Lumberjackfan1978 on December 12, 2016, 10:36:38 pm
some teams always kick extra points and some teams always go for two points so I could say it gives a little advantage to the team that practices going for two just like it gives the team that practices extra points the advantage.if a team never practices kicking extra points their not gonna make many

It's a play run from 2 1/2 yards out, no different than one on their own 40. If they need 2 1/2 yards, then run a play for it.

nastynice

December 13, 2016, 06:17:44 am #30 Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 10:22:28 am by nastynice
Quote from: ricepig on December 13, 2016, 05:18:27 am
It's a play run from 2 1/2 yards out, no different than one on their own 40. If they need 2 1/2 yards, then run a play for it.
Are you kidding me? This post show how much you know about football.
Running a play from the 40 is totally different than the 3 yard line.

Lions84

Pretty good attendance for the weather that was going on.  Does AAA still sell the Championship ticket package anymore?

Coach Jones

The two point conversion line is at the 3 yard line.  LOL  good grief.

ricepig

Quote from: nastynice on December 13, 2016, 06:17:44 am
Are you kidding me? This post show how much you know about football.
Running a play from the 40 is totally different than the 3 yard line.


If you need that distance for a first dow from the 40, it's the same thing, you need 3 yards. If your kicker is so shaky you're worried about making the extra point on a college goalpost, then you should have been practicing your 2pt plays anyway.

dawg_days

Quote from: Oldbadger on December 11, 2016, 07:53:24 pm
I think the goal posts at WM should be made to adjust to high school distance.  High schools use the stadium more than colleges.  It would be easy to do.  Just think of all the extra points that were missed this year.  I don't have the count but it made coaches change their playcalling.

I don't see it being a problem myself. If the kicker goes to college he/she will be kicking on a goal post just like that.

WPWells

How many Arkansas high school kickers get a college scholarship?

ricepig

Quote from: Fred Bird on December 14, 2016, 11:10:10 am
How many Arkansas high school kickers get a college scholarship?

You have to have a scholarship to kick in college? See, two can play this game. If you don't/didn't have confidence in your kicker going into this game, then you should have been practicing on your 4th and 3 plays. What's the historical makes/misses at WMS for high school games? Was this past championships above, or below that? What was the rate for this past season overall? Lots of variables to consider in this discussion. Having said that, they should switch them out for playoffs, if it feasible.

WPWells

Quote from: ricepig on December 14, 2016, 01:33:39 pm
You have to have a scholarship to kick in college? See, two can play this game. If you don't/didn't have confidence in your kicker going into this game, then you should have been practicing on your 4th and 3 plays. What's the historical makes/misses at WMS for high school games? Was this past championships above, or below that? What was the rate for this past season overall? Lots of variables to consider in this discussion. Having said that, they should switch them out for playoffs, if it feasible.

If you agree then why are you arguing? Are you just trying to be a jerk?

OB11

^^^^^^^^^^ Battle Royal of FF giants ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

ricepig

Quote from: Fred Bird on December 14, 2016, 02:20:28 pm
If you agree then why are you arguing? Are you just trying to be a jerk?

Jerk?? I've said all along that it's the same for both teams, so it didn't favor one over another. I then said if WMS wants to change them out, fine. Obviously, it's not been a problem in the past, or they would have changed them by now.

WPWells

You're arguing just to argue. Maybe it hasn't happened yet, but who's to say in the future that the goalpost width wouldn't affect the outcome of the state championship?

AT

Quote from: Fred Bird on December 14, 2016, 09:17:11 pm
You're arguing just to argue. Maybe it hasn't happened yet, but who's to say in the future that the goalpost width wouldn't affect the outcome of the state championship?

It has. 2013 Batesville-Morrilton. Batesville missed it enough that some people wonder if they actually missed it. Normal goalposts, they make it and send it to overtime.

WPWells

Oh but that was "fair" because morrilton had to attempt the same game-tying field goal, right?

Lumberjackfan1978

Quote from: Fred Bird on December 14, 2016, 02:20:28 pm
If you agree then why are you arguing? Are you just trying to be a jerk?

Wonderdog

Quote from: Almatrackster on December 14, 2016, 09:52:20 pm
It has. 2013 Batesville-Morrilton. Batesville missed it enough that some people wonder if they actually missed it. Normal goalposts, they make it and send it to overtime.
Thanks AT. I couldn't remember how close the kick was. I was at that game but couldn't recall whether it was close enough to cause a stink.

ricepig

Quote from: Almatrackster on December 14, 2016, 09:52:20 pm
It has. 2013 Batesville-Morrilton. Batesville missed it enough that some people wonder if they actually missed it. Normal goalposts, they make it and send it to overtime.

But both teams used the same goalposts all game, correct?

ricepig

Quote from: Fred Bird on December 14, 2016, 10:21:40 pm
Oh but that was "fair" because morrilton had to attempt the same game-tying field goal, right?

They would have used the same width goal post, correct?

AT

Quote from: ricepig on December 15, 2016, 07:24:08 am
They would have used the same width goal post, correct?

Not sure what you are trying to argue. Sure it's fair that both teams use the same goalposts.

That wouldn't be the question for me, I think the fault lies in changing the spirit of the whole game and the strategies for different teams when a certain factor that makes that change could be controlled.

No you can't control weather (everyone is playing in the rain), but goal posts could probably be changed and it does change the way certain teams play and affects certain ones more.

What if a state championship game in basketball was played at an arena where they only had men's basketballs? This wouldn't happen, but according to you, since both girls teams have to play with the men's basketball, it's fair. But what if one of those teams is a three point shooting team and the other one is more of a "get easy shots and offensive rebounds" to score type of team. That changes the game for the 3 point shooting team. Fair or not, it doesn't mean it can't be fixed.

ricepig

Quote from: Almatrackster on December 15, 2016, 08:57:23 am
Not sure what you are trying to argue. Sure it's fair that both teams use the same goalposts.

That wouldn't be the question for me, I think the fault lies in changing the spirit of the whole game and the strategies for different teams when a certain factor that makes that change could be controlled.

No you can't control weather (everyone is playing in the rain), but goal posts could probably be changed and it does change the way certain teams play and affects certain ones more.

What if a state championship game in basketball was played at an arena where they only had men's basketballs? This wouldn't happen, but according to you, since both girls teams have to play with the men's basketball, it's fair. But what if one of those teams is a three point shooting team and the other one is more of a "get easy shots and offensive rebounds" to score type of team. That changes the game for the 3 point shooting team. Fair or not, it doesn't mean it can't be fixed.


Did these girl's teams know what basketball they would be using like the football coaches in the championship finals knew about the goalposts, a week ahead of time?

AT

Quote from: ricepig on December 15, 2016, 09:51:13 am

Did these girl's teams know what basketball they would be using like the football coaches in the championship finals knew about the goalposts, a week ahead of time?

Sure, do you still think they shouldn't change something they can control?

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