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How overrated was the West?

Started by MDXPHD, November 23, 2016, 10:07:24 am

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MDXPHD

They are now left without a team in the playoffs and they had no quality wins this season. Two of their teams were boosted in the rankings just because they were beating up on the teams in their conference. 3 of their teams got blew out in the first round and their 1 seed got beat by a south team in the second round.

It was pointed out by sevenof400 very early this season.

Quote from: sevenof400 on September 03, 2016, 10:30:47 am
That may not be saying much on either count.  From a distance, the West looks down this year.  Alma should win the West without much trouble.

I think it's safe to say that the West was extremely overrated all season. I expected a better showing from them in the playoffs, but there wasn't a showing at all.

PrivateLesson

November 23, 2016, 10:10:33 am #1 Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 10:13:21 am by PrivateLesson
 
Quote from: MDXPHD on November 23, 2016, 10:07:24 am
They are now left without a team in the playoffs and they had no quality wins this season. Two of their teams were boosted in the rankings just because they were beating up on the teams in their conference. 3 of their teams got blew out in the first round and their 1 seed got beat by a south team in the second round.

It was pointed out by sevenof400 very early this season.

I think it's safe to say that the West was extremely overrated all season. I expected a better showing from them in the playoffs, but there wasn't a showing at all.

That's a little harsh.   I think anyone can respect a team for battling back 3 touchdowns in a playoff game.   I wouldn't be quick to dismiss them for next year, either.   Granted, it's not the outcome most anticipated but that is how the game of football works.

Chief_Osceola™

November 23, 2016, 10:10:52 am #2 Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 12:03:13 pm by Chief_Osceola™
Well considering lowly 2-8 Maumelle gave WYNNE it's toughest game to date, I'd say parity is an apt description. Those teams just beat up on each other all season and it takes a toll come playoff time.

MDXPHD

Quote from: Chief_Osceola™ on November 23, 2016, 10:10:52 am
Well considering lowly 2-8 Maumelle gave Wayne it's toughest game to date, I'd say parity is an apt description. Those teams just beat up on each other all season and it takes a toll come playoff time.

I assume you meant Wynne. And Wynne dominated your true one seed...I'm not sure that's a good argument. Also, Wynne kind of called the dogs off when they were up by 21 in the first quarter.

PrivateLesson

And way to make a discussion AFTER you have seen how your team Batesville is coming along...lol

Chief_Osceola™

November 23, 2016, 10:22:44 am #5 Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 10:48:12 am by Chief_Osceola™
Quote from: MDXPHD on November 23, 2016, 10:13:46 am
I assume you meant Wynne. And Wynne dominated your true one seed...I'm not sure that's a good argument. Also, Wynne kind of called the dogs off when they were up by 21 in the first quarter.

Yeah my auto correct dropped the ball on that one. Also I'm still pretty sure they were never up 21-0. And again, Maumelle played WYNNE in game 2. MORRILTON had to play them in week 11 right after a another rigorous 5A West conference season. WYNNE had it a lot easier in the East and probably rested their ones the second half of every game.

Edit: my autocorrect still doesn't know how to spell.

MDXPHD

Quote from: Chief_Osceola™ on November 23, 2016, 10:22:44 am
Yeah my auto correct dropped the ball on that one. Also I'm still pretty sure they were never up 21-0. And again, Maumelle played WYNNE in game 2. Morristown had to play them in week 11 right after a another rigorous 5A West conference season. WYNNE had it a lot easier in the East and probably rested their ones the second half of every game.

It was 21-0 with 3 minutes left in the first.

I don't buy the argument that they had it easier. The East still has two teams in the playoffs and they also went 3-1 against the West. You think it's just because the West had to beat up on each other and the East didn't?

Chief_Osceola™

Quote from: MDXPHD on November 23, 2016, 10:39:03 am
It was 21-0 with 3 minutes left in the first.

I don't buy the argument that they had it easier. The East still has two teams in the playoffs and they also went 3-1 against the West. You think it's just because the West had to beat up on each other and the East didn't?

In that case Maumelle showed a lot of resolve - I know at several points in the game the score was 21-7, 28-14, and 31-21.  Not exactly a blowout like Wynne became accustomed to the rest of the season.

As for the second part, isn't that the excuse we always get from the SEC when their teams are consistently over-ranked and do poorly in bowls?  Yet no one seems to have a problem with that reasoning in that situation.

PA Dad

I think Alma and Morrilton both had very good teams. 

Morrilton had the misfortune of having to play Wynne, probably the best team in 5A, in the first round.  Absent the forfeitures, Morrilton might still be playing.  And Alma just ran into a WC team that peaked at the right time.  I never thought WC would beat Sylvan Hills and Alma, but they proved me wrong.

Overall, I still say the South was the weakest conference this year despite WC's success in the playoffs.

MDXPHD

Quote from: Chief_Osceola™ on November 23, 2016, 10:42:58 am
In that case Maumelle showed a lot of resolve - I know at several points in the game the score was 21-7, 28-14, and 31-21.  Not exactly a blowout like Wynne became accustomed to the rest of the season.

As for the second part, isn't that the excuse we always get from the SEC when their teams are consistently over-ranked and do poorly in bowls?  Yet no one seems to have a problem with that reasoning in that situation.

Not that it matters, but it was 31-7 at half I think. I also remember 38-14 at one point. So I'm not sure it was ever close and Wynne didn't know when to call them off since they maintained at least a 21+ lead for the majority of the game.

People do rationalize that...but the SEC also always has a team in the championship game, so that helps. I understand the argument, I just don't think it applies here.

The West was weak this year. It's okay to admit that. The East is weak a lot of years as well. I do think the South is traditionally the weakest overall, but it just seems that the West was vastly overrated this season.

Steve Perry 2.11


The West was weak MDXPHD. Thanks for pointing that out.

Pr8hd

Maybe GW should drop back down next cycle and rejoin the 5A West.   ;)

Steve Perry 2.11

Quote from: Pr8hd on November 23, 2016, 11:15:13 am
Maybe GW should drop back down next cycle and rejoin the 5A West.   ;)

Uh...how bout no.

Pr8hd

November 23, 2016, 11:28:43 am #13 Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 11:54:58 am by Pr8hd
Quote from: Steve Perry 2.11 on November 23, 2016, 11:22:40 am
Uh...how bout no.

Just saying...Maumelle and GW are each on the verge on each end of the spectrum. I don't think it will happen, but I know Coach King and few others remember GW in the 5A. So, if they want to make a call out on a conference's strength they need to be careful what they wish for.

I thought Alma and Morrilton were good this year. The seeding got all jacked around though with the forfeits so who's to say what the playoff landscape really would be like at this point had that not happened.   

MDXPHD

Quote from: Pr8hd on November 23, 2016, 11:28:43 am
Just saying...Maumelle and GW are each on the verge on each end of the spectrum. I don't think it will happen, but I know Coach King and few others remember GW in the 5A. So, if they want to make a call out on a conference's strength they need to be careful what they wish for.

I thought Alma and Morrilton were good this year. The seeding got all jacked around though with the forfeits so who's to say what the playoff landscape really would be like  at this point ahd that not happened.

Saying a conference is weak doesn't necessarily mean we want Greenwood back in it. The south is weak too, do we want PB in it? It's just stating a fact. It goes in cycles. The West will be just fine and I'm sure they will be back in the mix next season. Although I don't think GW would run through the 5A like you seem to think. Wynne and PA could certainly play with them this season.

Steve Perry 2.11


Alma should be better next year than they were this year.

Chief_Osceola™

November 23, 2016, 11:44:18 am #16 Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 11:46:13 am by Chief_Osceola™
Quote from: MDXPHD on November 23, 2016, 11:02:06 am
Not that it matters, but it was 31-7 at half I think. I also remember 38-14 at one point. So I'm not sure it was ever close and Wynne didn't know when to call them off since they maintained at least a 21+ lead for the majority of the game.

People do rationalize that...but the SEC also always has a team in the championship game, so that helps. I understand the argument, I just don't think it applies here.

The West was weak this year. It's okay to admit that. The East is weak a lot of years as well. I do think the South is traditionally the weakest overall, but it just seems that the West was vastly overrated this season.

I was there.  I never got the sense we were out of the game until Wynne tacked on the final touchdown.  It was never more than a 2 score game with the exception of 21-0 and the final score.  I thought it was actually one of the better games we played all season despite the final score.

My second part was tongue in cheek.  I always like to jab the SEC faithful and it catches a LOT of disdain on Hogville.

Me being serious - I don't think the West was 'down', necessarily.  I think that due to circumstances and the way the playoffs brackets were drawn up, they were not as strong as perceived throughout the season.  Or maybe they were and were over-ranked all year.  Regardless, the East seems to definitely be the toughest conference this year top to bottom.  They had 3 teams in the quarterfinals.

Chief_Osceola™

Quote from: Steve Perry 2.11 on November 23, 2016, 11:43:37 am
Alma should be better next year than they were this year.

So should Maumelle.  We started and played a lot of sophomores this year.  Also, we may see some new faces that weren't on the field this year.  We'll see.

Pr8hd

Quote from: MDXPHD on November 23, 2016, 11:32:03 am
Saying a conference is weak doesn't necessarily mean we want Greenwood back in it. The south is weak too, do we want PB in it? It's just stating a fact. It goes in cycles. The West will be just fine and I'm sure they will be back in the mix next season. Although I don't think GW would run through the 5A like you seem to think. Wynne and PA could certainly play with them this season.

I would venture to say that had Alma been matched up against Batesville ( I know the bracket would not have been that way) it would have been a pretty good game -likely a toss up or Alma favored. They both have comparable styles, plus Batesville did not start out setting the world on fire so i don't think they are juggernauts this year. The same would apply to a match-up that might have been between Morrilton and WC which should have happened.  It is cyclical, but it also is very much dependent on the draw and a few lucky/unlucky things happening.

As mentioned, I think it'll be between PA and Wynne in the end as well. I am sure either could give GW a good game. I think the same can be said of most years between 6A and 7A champs (PB last year could have really given Fayetteville a good game) or 5A and 6A champs and so on. 

BTW, I know you aware, but PB....not close to 5A enrollment threshold. Meanwhile, GW is a little more relevant in that discussion. However, the South might be lucky to get Texarkana though instead and with a new coach, they might be a handful.

MDXPHD

Quote from: Chief_Osceola™ on November 23, 2016, 11:44:18 am
I was there.  I never got the sense we were out of the game until Wynne tacked on the final touchdown.  It was never more than a 2 score game with the exception of 21-0 and the final score.  I thought it was actually one of the better games we played all season despite the final score.

My second part was tongue in cheek.  I always like to jab the SEC faithful and it catches a LOT of disdain on Hogville.

Me being serious - I don't think the West was 'down', necessarily.  I think that due to circumstances and the way the playoffs brackets were drawn up, they were not as strong as perceived throughout the season.  Or maybe they were and were over-ranked all year.  Regardless, the East seems to definitely be the toughest conference this year top to bottom.  They had 3 teams in the quarterfinals.

Well, this just isn't true. I just told you how the scoring occurred...no need to argue this anymore though.

I do think the West will be back next year. I think Maumelle, Alma, and Morrilton will all be pretty good. I'm uncertain about Harrison/Greenbrier.

Quote from: Pr8hd on November 23, 2016, 11:58:24 am
I would venture to say that had Alma been matched up against Batesville ( I know the bracket would not have been that way) it would have been a pretty good game -likely a toss up or Alma favored. They both have comparable styles, plus Batesville did not start out setting the world on fire so i don't think they are juggernauts this year. The same would apply to a match-up that might have been between Morrilton and WC which should have happened.  It is cyclical, but it also is very much dependent on the draw and a few lucky/unlucky things happening.

As mentioned, I think it'll be between PA and Wynne in the end as well. I am sure either could give GW a good game. I think the same can be said of most years between 6A and 7A champs (PB last year could have really given Fayetteville a good game) or 5A and 6A champs and so on. 

BTW, I know you aware, but PB....not close to 5A enrollment threshold. Meanwhile, GW is a little more relevant in that discussion. However, the South might be lucky to get Texarkana though instead and with a new coach, they might be a handful.

Alma and Batesville would have been a pretty good game. I agree that Batesville received a very good draw. Wynne received the most difficult path even though they were a 1 seed.

I am aware of PB's enrollment. I was just using them as an example. I don't think stating that a conference is weak necessarily means we want a juggernaut from a higher class to come rolling in. I am just fine with leaving Greenwood right where they are lol.

Pr8hd

November 23, 2016, 03:44:57 pm #20 Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 03:46:48 pm by Pr8hd
Quote from: MDXPHD on November 23, 2016, 01:35:45 pm
Well, this just isn't true. I just told you how the scoring occurred...no need to argue this anymore though.

I do think the West will be back next year. I think Maumelle, Alma, and Morrilton will all be pretty good. I'm uncertain about Harrison/Greenbrier.

Alma and Batesville would have been a pretty good game. I agree that Batesville received a very good draw. Wynne received the most difficult path even though they were a 1 seed.

I am aware of PB's enrollment. I was just using them as an example. I don't think stating that a conference is weak necessarily means we want a juggernaut from a higher class to come rolling in. I am just fine with leaving Greenwood right where they are lol.

+1   :)

One thing I would agree on regarding Batesville is they peak and come together at the right times. Plus, 2 of their losses were to higher classification teams no shame in losing to Jonesboro at all.  King does a nice job for sure for the Pioneers. I agree with the general assessment that the East was the best in 5A this year. I am just being contrary and giving the business. I enjoy keeping an eye on the 5A playoffs, definitely some good football and excellent coaches in the classification. Some of the most exciting games I have ever seen was when GW was in the 5A.

Best of luck to all teams remaining.

Chief_Osceola™

November 23, 2016, 06:00:12 pm #21 Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 06:08:56 pm by Chief_Osceola™
Quote from: MDXPHD on November 23, 2016, 01:35:45 pm
Well, this just isn't true. I just told you how the scoring occurred...no need to argue this anymore though.

Again, I was at the game. I watched the entire thing. We were down 14-17 points after our first score until the end. Were you there as well?

Edit: it was 38-14 after 3, and 38-21 early in the 4th. It was 31-14 at halftime.

QuoteI do think the West will be back next year. I think Maumelle, Alma, and Morrilton will all be pretty good. I'm uncertain about Harrison/Greenbrier.

Hope so. I'll take a wait and see approach with us.

MDXPHD

Quote from: Chief_Osceola™ on November 23, 2016, 06:00:12 pm
Again, I was at the game. I watched the entire thing. We were down 14-17 points after our first score until the end. Were you there as well?

Edit: it was 38-14 after 3, and 38-21 early in the 4th. It was 31-14 at halftime.

Hope so. I'll take a wait and see approach with us.

I was not at the game. But I follow scores pretty close on Friday nights. I'm basing everything off the week 2 score thread. It's really irrelevant. Maumelle was never in the game except for the opening kickoff. Maybe their 17 point loss (although they were down 21, 24, and 24 at various parts) can be considered somewhat of a moral victory for the West against the East.

Well, you at least have basketball to look forward to. Y'all will be one of the favorites for state. Tough conference but it will be fun to watch.

Chief_Osceola™

Quote from: MDXPHD on November 23, 2016, 06:22:16 pm
I was not at the game. But I follow scores pretty close on Friday nights. I'm basing everything off the week 2 score thread. It's really irrelevant. Maumelle was never in the game except for the opening kickoff. Maybe their 17 point loss (although they were down 21, 24, and 24 at various parts) can be considered somewhat of a moral victory for the West against the East.

Well, you at least have basketball to look forward to. Y'all will be one of the favorites for state. Tough conference but it will be fun to watch.

The score thread was off by a score. I intended to correct the halftime score but my phone battery died. I remember it pretty clearly. But like you said it doesn't matter now. I'm not a moral victory type of person but we did leave some points on the table and did play decent on defense that night.

As for basketball, Parkview is far and away the team to beat. They're gonna be tough. I expect us to be in the mix.

Yellowcake


oldjacketman

Wynne was up 31-7 in second quarter. Started 21-0. It was 31-14 at half.

walkingguy72396

I think if  the West was over rated. 
The Wynne vs Maumelle game played a big part.
Wynne going through the East like they did, 
Maumelle getting beaten Handily by the West 1-4 seeds,

I think Blytheville  actually played Alma closer than the score showed.
But I Think the West was not over rated.

Alma loss to Chapel was a perfect example of any-thing that can go wrong.  Will go wrong.

oldjacketman

The best team in the east was 29 points better than the best from the west.

the voice

November 24, 2016, 03:31:55 pm #28 Last Edit: November 24, 2016, 03:43:13 pm by the voice
Quote from: oldjacketman on November 24, 2016, 01:51:27 pm
The best team in the east was 29 points better than the best from the west.
Morrilton quit. Shouldn't have but they did. Hill didn't he was gonna score 50 if he could.  Wynne was the better team. No argument. Hope you get your ring.

oldjacketman

Looked to me like wynne made adjustments at half and morrilton didn't. Wynne scored late with backups running the ball. But, we can call it whatever. 29 is 29.

the voice

They got the 50 he wanted and called a timeout to get two point play. 29 is 29. No argument.

oldjacketman


Chief_Osceola™

Quote from: oldjacketman on November 24, 2016, 01:51:27 pm
The best team in the east was 29 points better than the best from the west.

But only 17 points better than the 6th place team. How does that even happen?

the voice


the voice


oldjacketman

Game 2 vs game 11, I assume. I also assume some people are a little upset over that number 50. So the backups score the final 6 but the 2 pt conversion is in question. The 2 pt conversion also executed by the backups. Interesting.

the voice

There's nothing to defend. We had some in as well. I can assure you I know the reasoning. It's all good. You guys won.  It's the belief that's there's never enough or all the points that separates you and others. Or the back ups  did it all. Just sounds familiar is my point. I'm not arguing who was better. I don't need an explanation I was there , I know and I saw. Good luck with Friday.

Yellowcake

See Voice, the Jackets are the bad guys, not us.

Time to put on your blue and gold and root for the underdogs at PA!!!

JacketDad

Quote from: Yellowcake on November 24, 2016, 10:35:56 pm
See Voice, the Jackets are the bad guys, not us.

Time to put on your blue and gold and root for the underdogs at PA!!!
So, I guess, in a way, you are saying the "surprise" is not going to work?  PA and Wynne in the finals?  Worried, just a little?

mijally

Quote from: oldjacketman on November 24, 2016, 08:00:21 pm
Kicker was a little off.
All the more reason to try again. He needs the practice. But your coach called timeout and went for two instead. Awesome. I didn't realize Wynne's coach was like that. Piling on unnecessary points and calling timeouts to do it.

JacketDad

Quote from: mijally on November 25, 2016, 09:22:11 am
All the more reason to try again. He needs the practice. But your coach called timeout and went for two instead. Awesome. I didn't realize Wynne's coach was like that. Piling on unnecessary points and calling timeouts to do it.
http://images.parents.mdpcdn.com/sites/parents.com/files/styles/width_360/public/images/p_101528432.jpg
Cry Baby!!!

mijally


MDXPHD


I don't think Wynne went for two on the last td. Pretty sure they kicked the extra point.

I think it was 35 then Wynne scored and went for two to make it 43. Maybe I'm not recalling that correctly.

All this whining about Hill "running up the score" is ridiculous. He didn't, unless you think going for two with the majority of the 4th quarter left and only being up by 3 scores is considered running it up.

AT

He was up 27-14 after the missed extra point (making it 13). Touchdowns plus extra points only get you to 34 point lead with 3 touchdowns.

After his kicker missing that, he went for two the next time I believe to put them back on track. 35-14. The next time going for two was a strange decision (43-14), but I think he did it so that he only needed a touchdown (no matter what happened on the PAT) to make it a mercy rule.

A PAT was the last extra point(s) to make it 50.

AT

Hmm, how overrated was the West?

A great question (not being sarcastic). I guess we have to decide how rated the West was first.

I know Alma came in with a lot of expectations. I thought they could make the finals. Once I saw Wynne was doing what they were doing and that Alma could be on the same side, I went with semifinals as being a good goal.

Morrilton certainly didn't come in to the season with a ton of expectations, I don't believe. I think they were seen as a fringe top ten team, but many people saw them as the 3rd best team in the state all year and depending on how other teams do against Wynne, that might not change.

I don't think Greenbrier and Harrison were overrated before the season, but I do think perhaps we jumped on their trains throughout the year and the playoffs sorely disappointed us.

I think we could say the West got a little more love than it turned out they needed this year. Nothing drastic.

oldjacketman

But, but, but that can't be right. He went for 2 at the end of the game. Shane on you people for using facts in your dispute!

AT

Quote from: oldjacketman on November 25, 2016, 11:51:21 am
But, but, but that can't be right. He went for 2 at the end of the game. Shane on you people for using facts in your dispute!

;)

It is funny how if WC does pull off the improbable and beat Wynne tonight, this whole topic becomes a bit changed. The Wildcats are a Wildcard.

wynnefootballfan

Just my opinion. As long as it's 1's vs. 1's, 2's vs. 2's and so on. The kids should be allowed to be a part a scoring drive. Put points on the board till the final buzzer goes off.

mijally

Quote from: Almatrackster on November 25, 2016, 11:17:26 am
He was up 27-14 after the missed extra point (making it 13). Touchdowns plus extra points only get you to 34 point lead with 3 touchdowns.

After his kicker missing that, he went for two the next time I believe to put them back on track. 35-14. The next time going for two was a strange decision (43-14), but I think he did it so that he only needed a touchdown (no matter what happened on the PAT) to make it a mercy rule.

A PAT was the last extra point(s) to make it 50.
Ok thanks. That makes more sense than doing it at the end of the game.

PercussionMan

Morrilton played Wynne close for a half....the third quarter is really the only quarter where Wynne just absolutely dominated overall.  And, sometimes, that's all you need to win a game or blow a team out.  I know there are always the "could haves, would haves, and should haves", but I still wonder how Wynne would have responded, had Morrilton not been stopped inside the 5 yard line twice in the first half.  And, also, if you're up 28-14 coming out of the locker room and have the ball, what kind of momentum do you have then?  I know there were at least a few Wynne fans that got nervous during that first half....they made posts on the board that indicate that. 

But, all in all, Wynne being at home....Morrilton traveling in the first round (instead of having probably 2 home playoff games) with really what was a 9-1 record on the field....Morrilton's QB being banged up from the knee injury the previous week....lots of factors there.  I honestly think Morrilton may have given Wynne an overall better game in the semifinals instead of round 1.  But, it didn't happen that way, and now, we really know about how good Wynne really is as a team.  Now, go get that ring....take that championship away from P.A., or otherwise, this "great team" that we've been hearing so much about this season will simply be "runners up"....again....when you go back and look in the books. (Side note:  Not meaning that to sound hateful....will likely be sitting on Wynne's side cheering for Coach Hill to get his first State Championship!)

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