Public vs Private Schools Pile (Past/Present/Future/All Classes)

[MDXPHD]

I thought you were more the peacemaker type??? 


Private vs Public will always be a debate.   ECS and another school get into it on the Basketball threads.   

Can't help but wonder if it all comes down to $.

Probably Baptist. Because those are two private schools playing in championships this weekend. Baptist has a solid team though...always helps when you have a 7'3 player in 4A ball. I don't think they have lost to a team from Arkansas all year.

[PrivateLesson]

Yet both are private schools and have issues still with each other or using the word recruiting.    Is there even a happy medium to be found in all this??

[MDXPHD]

Yet both are private schools and have issues still with each other or using the word recruiting.    Is there even a happy medium to be found in all this??

Oh I thought you meant people were complaining about two different schools in basketball this season. I'm not sure if they have issues with each other because they are in separate classifications, but I wouldn't doubt it. Of course there isn't a happy medium. It's nearly impossible to find a solution which satisfies both public and private schools.

[PrivateLesson]

Of course there isn't a happy medium. It's nearly impossible to find a solution which satisfies both public and private schools.

If that is true, then why the 19 pages of debate?     You have been somewhat accused of having a hidden agenda( or strong opinion)against PA or private schools and I thought you were trying to find a solution?    Have I misunderstood?     


It is a great thread topic for off season, however. 

[MDXPHD]

A solution won't please the private schools. They are pleased right now having their advantages and competing against the public schools. Of course, AAA could do a better job of leveling the playing field, but that doesn't mean everyone will be happy. I do have a strong opinion against public vs private, can't deny that. But my solution wouldn't satisfy the private schools. I thought you asked if there and as a solution where everyone is satisfied.

[Red Devil Alum]

A solution won't please the private schools. They are pleased right now having their advantages and competing against the public schools. Of course, AAA could do a better job of leveling the playing field, but that doesn't mean everyone will be happy. I do have a strong opinion against public vs private, can't deny that. But my solution wouldn't satisfy the private schools. I thought you asked if there and as a solution where everyone is satisfied.

There are a lot of solutions. Doesn't mean they are fair or warranted.

[MDXPHD]

There are a lot of solutions. Doesn't mean they are fair or warranted.

I believe that depends on which side you stand on.

[Red Devil Alum]

I believe that depends on which side you stand on.

Fair is not in the eye of the beholder. Fair is an impartial determination.

[MDXPHD]

Fair is not in the eye of the beholder. Fair is an impartial determination.

Fair might supposedly be an impartial determination, but fair seems to be subjective regarding this topic. Objectively, we are a long ways from fairness though, aren't we?

[MDXPHD]

Honest question. Does anyone know how the bill introduced in Alabama is doing? Getting backlash or positive feedback? I haven't had the time to read much about it lately.

[PrivateLesson]

Honest question. Does anyone know how the bill introduced in Alabama is doing? Getting backlash or positive feedback? I haven't had the time to read much about it lately.

That's because you are always in here....😉🙃   

What relevance does that have to this current thread??   I only keep up with Bama because of Saban.

[MDXPHD]

That's because you are always in here....😉🙃   

What relevance does that have to this current thread??   I only keep up with Bama because of Saban.

That may be true. Luckily, I will soon be taking a few months off. I know you will miss me lol.

The proposed legislation would prevent private and public schools from participating in the same post season tournaments.

[Nomad1324]

That may be true. Luckily, I will soon be taking a few months off. I know you will miss me lol.

The proposed legislation would prevent private and public schools from participating in the same post season tournaments.

In Arkansas that would create a postseason tournament for 18 schools (unless you lump charter schools in with those) from Catholic (Rotation # 974.33)  to Avilla Christian Academy (rotation # 6.33).

Even if you include the charter schools that play, that's maybe 11 more schools and maybe one that plays football. (Cross County went Charter a few years back).

There's nothing that's going to make this better overnight. Even if the multiplier was 2.00, almost all the schools would stay in their current classification level.

[nuttinbuthogs]

Forget it, Private will never have their own league.  They don't want it and they have influence.

[Red Devil Alum]

There's a thread on Hogville right now about how little support the LRSD and PCCSD give athletics. But some think PA has to cheat to get good players to come to school there.

[Yellowcake]

The return of the Jedi. The dead horse.

Funny, it's not the kids who play the game complaining. It's some adults, who claim they don't speak on behalf of the kids. I am curious, because you don't play the game, upon whose behalf do you speak. Your own sense of justice?

I bet the kids, if they had a vote, would rather beat them than kick them out. It's funny they are the ones with perspective.

[Intelligentsia]

The return of the Jedi. The dead horse.

If you deed a good example irony in composition?  Please refer to the thread entry above.😎

Funny, it's not the kids who play the game complaining. It's some adults, who claim they don't speak on behalf of the kids. I am curious, because you don't play the game, upon whose behalf do you speak. Your own sense of justice?

I bet the kids, if they had a vote, would rather beat them than kick them out. It's funny they are the ones with perspective.

[AirWarren]

There's a thread on Hogville right now about how little support the LRSD and PCCSD give athletics. But some think PA has to cheat to get good players to come to school there.

Joe T Robinson sure is making strides.

[Chief_Osceola™]

Joe T Robinson sure is making strides.

Their facilities are awesome.  Mills is also getting some major facility upgrades.  Maumelle has great facilities for everything but baseball and softball, and those upgrades are coming soon.

[AirWarren]

Their facilities are awesome.  Mills is also getting some major facility upgrades.  Maumelle has great facilities for everything but baseball and softball, and those upgrades are coming soon.

Maumelle facilities are nice.

[DuckyDon]

Joe T Robinson sure is making strides.

yes...but when you seem to welcome all the problem athletes...it just doesnt seem to pan out.

[AirWarren]

yes...but when you seem to welcome all the problem athletes...it just doesnt seem to pan out.

I'm talking about parent involvement and facilities.

[MDXPHD]

These numbers represent the number of football players in grades 10-12 that received financial aid for 2016.

Conway Christian - 1
Shiloh - 2
Harding - 4
Episcopal - 5
CAC - 5
Baptist - 6
Catholic - 7
LRCA - 9
Pulaski Academy - 20 (won state championship)

Catholic has 758 students in their school alone. LRCA is also larger than PA with 817 students enrolled. Do what you want with this information, but it seemed important on this thread and the 5A football board. I don't have much time to post these days, but I'll post more information if it seems important enough. Also, let me know if I left out a football school. It seems that there are 9 or so in the state, with 209 schools overall that participate in football. I probably won't have time to respond to any inquiries regarding this post, just a heads up.

[blueandwhite]

Thanks for the info MDXPHD, but where did you get this information from?

[JessieP]

These numbers represent the number of football players in grades 10-12 that received financial aid for 2016.

Conway Christian - 1
Shiloh - 2
Harding - 4
Episcopal - 5
CAC - 5
Baptist - 6
Catholic - 7
LRCA - 9
Pulaski Academy - 20 (won state championship)

Catholic has 758 students in their school alone. LRCA is also larger than PA with 817 students enrolled. Do what you want with this information, but it seemed important on this thread and the 5A football board. I don't have much time to post these days, but I'll post more information if it seems important enough. Also, let me know if I left out a football school. It seems that there are 9 or so in the state, with 209 schools overall that participate in football. I probably won't have time to respond to any inquiries regarding this post, just a heads up.

This, if accurate, would constitute a smoking gun. If these numbers are true how can the AAA allow this ? why would they tilt the field so dramatically in one schools favor ? with all the talk of great coaching and great system and all the other bs this changes things, in a MAJOR way. I'm starting to see now that if they played it straight up, you went to the public school where you lived, the final would have been a Wynne/Batesville rematch. PA would still be very competitive but would come in somewhere near number 7 or 8. It is a shame the state allows this.

[PrivateLesson]

That may be true. Luckily, I will soon be taking a few months off. I know you will miss me lol.

The proposed legislation would prevent private and public schools from participating in the same post season tournaments.

I took some time off and you seem to have not Mr.Phd! 

[STBruin]

These numbers represent the number of football players in grades 10-12 that received financial aid for 2016.

Conway Christian - 1
Shiloh - 2
Harding - 4
Episcopal - 5
CAC - 5
Baptist - 6
Catholic - 7
LRCA - 9
Pulaski Academy - 20 (won state championship)

Catholic has 758 students in their school alone. LRCA is also larger than PA with 817 students enrolled. Do what you want with this information, but it seemed important on this thread and the 5A football board. I don't have much time to post these days, but I'll post more information if it seems important enough. Also, let me know if I left out a football school. It seems that there are 9 or so in the state, with 209 schools overall that participate in football. I probably won't have time to respond to any inquiries regarding this post, just a heads up.

I would like to know where you are getting these numbers...cause that number seems awfully high...and I can think of a handful that are probably on aid...but not 20...

[STBruin]

My post included the caveat "if these numbers are true". It does seem high, that is why I called it the smoking gun. For years we have heard rumblings and rumor about the whole "PA recruits" issue. If it is in fact 20 on the football team then yes, we need some serious asterisk's attached. If proof of the number 20 is presented then you will see quite an uproar. I'm betting the anger would hit levels that would force the AAA to take action. Earlier this year there was the story about some goon on PA that slugged another player. He was suspended, like everyone else is, and his Mother hired a lawyer to appeal. Coach Kelly was quoted in the paper saying "we will honor the rules of the AAA", yet he played him anyway while the appeal played out. Not exactly honoring the rules is it ? anyway, the Mother said he needed to play because he couldn't afford college and needed a scholarship. A lot of people back then were thinking "if he can't afford college why is he at PA". Does PA look past goonish behavior players because he's good football players ? kinda shoots the whole "we're an academic school" argument out of the water.

Calling a 16/17 year old a goon...that has just been punched in the face...is a little extreme. It's football you have to keep your composure, but calling a kid a goon is uncalled for. On another note, I would say the number is rather high, but I wish there was a place where you could pull up all the school of choice kids or be able to track some of the public school kids from school to school. Its happening...and I would say at the public school level its a FAR larger issue than you would think...3 scenarios...that I know are FACTS....kid 1 starts out at 9th grade Benton, then goes 10th grade to LR Central, then ends up at Bryant for his junior year...eligible...kid 2 goes 9th grade at Maumelle, 10th grade at NLR, 11th grade back at Maumelle....eligible...kid 3 goes to 3 DIFFERENT schools all in Saline County...eligible...ALSO...how are kids...that get kicked off the baseball team in Bryant eligible to play the same year at Joe T Robinson?

[PA Dad]

This, if accurate, would constitute a smoking gun. If these numbers are true how can the AAA allow this ? why would they tilt the field so dramatically in one schools favor ? with all the talk of great coaching and great system and all the other bs this changes things, in a MAJOR way. I'm starting to see now that if they played it straight up, you went to the public school where you lived, the final would have been a Wynne/Batesville rematch. PA would still be very competitive but would come in somewhere near number 7 or 8. It is a shame the state allows this.

'
If it's a smoking gun, take it to the AAA and make a complaint.  Why just complaint on here when you can do something about it?

Jessie, you need some consistency in your posts.  After the PA/Batesville game you posted that there was no way PA recruits based on the athletes you saw.  Does the financial assistance make the PA players better athletes or were you just wrong in your assessment of PA athletes?

MDX continues his PA bashing and always will.  But these numbers tell us nothing about recruiting.  In fact, MDX admits he has no evidence that PA recruits  If this is a smoking gun, tell us which players were recruited and how it happened.  It's been pointed out numerous times on this board that most PA players have been at PA since grade school.  Does PA really recruit grade schoolers?  Get real.

PA's tuition is about twice as much as LRCA.  PA has a much larger endowment that LRCA.  It makes sense that PA students would need more financial assistance because of the greater tuition.  And it makes sense that PA would give more assistance because of its larger endowment.

What percentage of students overall at PA get financial assistance versus football players?

Knee jerk reactions to numbers that are not in context does not further intelligent conversation.

[gameoflife]

The only answer to this question is one I read on here often, is to separate the private and the public.  I know that will not make the private school folks happy but they did choose the private school route. Nothing else will ever stop the bickering nor answer the question of "do they recruit".

[Lanny]

No name calling in this thread,
Do not trash another school

If you can't follow the simple rules this thread will be gone and you will have a vacation

[blueandwhite]

'
If it's a smoking gun, take it to the AAA and make a complaint.  Why just complaint on here when you can do something about it?

Jessie, you need some consistency in your posts.  After the PA/Batesville game you posted that there was no way PA recruits based on the athletes you saw.  Does the financial assistance make the PA players better athletes or were you just wrong in your assessment of PA athletes?

MDX continues his PA bashing and always will.  But these numbers tell us nothing about recruiting.  In fact, MDX admits he has no evidence that PA recruits  If this is a smoking gun, tell us which players were recruited and how it happened.  It's been pointed out numerous times on this board that most PA players have been at PA since grade school.  Does PA really recruit grade schoolers?  Get real.

PA's tuition is about twice as much as LRCA.  PA has a much larger endowment that LRCA.  It makes sense that PA students would need more financial assistance because of the greater tuition.  And it makes sense that PA would give more assistance because of its larger endowment.

What percentage of students overall at PA get financial assistance versus football players?

Knee jerk reactions to numbers that are not in context does not further intelligent conversation.

Private schools will recruit grade school athletes!!!! I have seen it with my own eyes

[JessieP]

'
If it's a smoking gun, take it to the AAA and make a complaint.  Why just complaint on here when you can do something about it?

Jessie, you need some consistency in your posts.  After the PA/Batesville game you posted that there was no way PA recruits based on the athletes you saw.  Does the financial assistance make the PA players better athletes or were you just wrong in your assessment of PA athletes?

MDX continues his PA bashing and always will.  But these numbers tell us nothing about recruiting.  In fact, MDX admits he has no evidence that PA recruits  If this is a smoking gun, tell us which players were recruited and how it happened.  It's been pointed out numerous times on this board that most PA players have been at PA since grade school.  Does PA really recruit grade schoolers?  Get real.

PA's tuition is about twice as much as LRCA.  PA has a much larger endowment that LRCA.  It makes sense that PA students would need more financial assistance because of the greater tuition.  And it makes sense that PA would give more assistance because of its larger endowment.

What percentage of students overall at PA get financial assistance versus football players?

Knee jerk reactions to numbers that are not in context does not further intelligent conversation.

Consistency in my post ? your kidding, right ? if new evidence comes to light on any subject are you cemented to your first opinion ? If I go to my Dr. in June for a physical and he tells me "your weight and blood pressure are just fine", for the next 9 months I adhere to the Homer Simpson diet. I return to the same Dr. in March and he say's "You've gained 25 lbs, your blood pressure is up" should I say "Geez, have a little consistency in your diagnosis". I always assumed maybe 10% of the team received financial aid. If the numbers posted are correct that would mean about 25% do. Does 25% of the general enrollment at PA receive financial aid ? If the number of football players receiving aid is greater then the general student body then quod erat demonstrandum, they recruit!

[PA Dad]

Consistency in my post ? your kidding, right ? if new evidence comes to light on any subject are you cemented to your first opinion ? If I go to my Dr. in June for a physical and he tells me "your weight and blood pressure are just fine", for the next 9 months I adhere to the Homer Simpson diet. I return to the same Dr. in March and he say's "You've gained 25 lbs, your blood pressure is up" should I say "Geez, have a little consistency in your diagnosis". I always assumed maybe 10% of the team received financial aid. If the numbers posted are correct that would mean about 25% do. Does 25% of the general enrollment at PA receive financial aid ? If the number of football players receiving aid is greater then the general student body then quod erat demonstrandum, they recruit!

You said that PA could not be recruiting based on your evaluation of the PA players you saw.  Financial aid cannot change the ability of the players.  If you don't see an inconsistency there there's nothing I can do to help you.

[HorseFeathers]

You said that PA could not be recruiting based on your evaluation of the PA players you saw.  Financial aid cannot change the ability of the players.  If you don't see an inconsistency there there's nothing I can do to help you.

Maybe he's saying he's a poor judge of talent ? Or P.A is bad at recruiting star athletes?

[PA Dad]

Maybe he's saying he's a poor judge of talent ? Or P.A is bad at recruiting star athletes?

Or maybe both?

[PA Dad]

Consistency in my post ? your kidding, right ? if new evidence comes to light on any subject are you cemented to your first opinion ? If I go to my Dr. in June for a physical and he tells me "your weight and blood pressure are just fine", for the next 9 months I adhere to the Homer Simpson diet. I return to the same Dr. in March and he say's "You've gained 25 lbs, your blood pressure is up" should I say "Geez, have a little consistency in your diagnosis". I always assumed maybe 10% of the team received financial aid. If the numbers posted are correct that would mean about 25% do. Does 25% of the general enrollment at PA receive financial aid ? If the number of football players receiving aid is greater then the general student body then quod erat demonstrandum, they recruit!

You ignored my suggestion that you go to the AAA with a complaint if you have a smoking gun.  Why?  If you have a smoking gun that PA recruits, the AAA should be involved.  If PA recruits it should be punished.  So why not make a complaint?

Do you know who decides if a PA student receives financial aid and how much the student receives?  Do you know how that relates to an allegation of recruiting?  If you do, please tell us what you know.  If you don't, please get educated on the subject.

[JessieP]

You ignored my suggestion that you go to the AAA with a complaint if you have a smoking gun.  Why?  If you have a smoking gun that PA recruits, the AAA should be involved.  If PA recruits it should be punished.  So why not make a complaint?

Do you know who decides if a PA student receives financial aid and how much the student receives?  Do you know how that relates to an allegation of recruiting?  If you do, please tell us what you know.  If you don't, please get educated on the subject.

Let me repeat this for the 137th time, comprehension issues ?, IF the numbers are correct. If, again I said IF. Why don't I go to the AAA ? I have no proof. Once more for people at home, if the numbers are correct we have the smoking gun. I never once said we have the smoking gun. Let's turn the tables, if (that pesky word again) the number of football players receiving aid is a higher percentage then the student body at large can you explain that ? if it is all done above table with no preference given to football players the numbers would be the same, the exact same. If 10% of PA students get assistance then 10% of the football players would, it would be in lock step. The problem with coaxing players to attend a certain school with offers of financial aid is that it double dips. It adds to one school and subtracts from another. One gets stronger while another gets weaker. All anyone has ever said is that if some private schools offer aid for athletes then fine, more power to them. Just don't let them play with schools that can't. It is a clear and undisputed advantage.

[PA Dad]

Let me repeat this for the 137th time, comprehension issues ?, IF the numbers are correct. If, again I said IF. Why don't I go to the AAA ? I have no proof. Once more for people at home, if the numbers are correct we have the smoking gun. I never once said we have the smoking gun. Let's turn the tables, if (that pesky word again) the number of football players receiving aid is a higher percentage then the student body at large can you explain that ? if it is all done above table with no preference given to football players the numbers would be the same, the exact same. If 10% of PA students get assistance then 10% of the football players would, it would be in lock step. The problem with coaxing players to attend a certain school with offers of financial aid is that it double dips. It adds to one school and subtracts from another. One gets stronger while another gets weaker. All anyone has ever said is that if some private schools offer aid for athletes then fine, more power to them. Just don't let them play with schools that can't. It is a clear and undisputed advantage.

Well, you still didn't answer my question.  Who decides who gets financial aid at PA and how much they get?  How does that affect the recruiting argument?  Knowing the facts is important.

[STBruin]

These numbers represent the number of football players in grades 10-12 that received financial aid for 2016.

Conway Christian - 1
Shiloh - 2
Harding - 4
Episcopal - 5
CAC - 5
Baptist - 6
Catholic - 7
LRCA - 9
Pulaski Academy - 20 (won state championship)

Catholic has 758 students in their school alone. LRCA is also larger than PA with 817 students enrolled. Do what you want with this information, but it seemed important on this thread and the 5A football board. I don't have much time to post these days, but I'll post more information if it seems important enough. Also, let me know if I left out a football school. It seems that there are 9 or so in the state, with 209 schools overall that participate in football. I probably won't have time to respond to any inquiries regarding this post, just a heads up.

ok, so I did some asking around...here is what I found...Financial aid is applied for and rewarded by a 3rd party clearing house.  The clearing house has no idea if the person applying is an athlete or not, and the school that the applicant is applying for financial aid for has 0 to do with the application, approval or amount awarded. From what I was told all of this information is reported to AAA, and they have a very fluid and transparent relationship with the clearing house. They know how much the applicant qualifies for and how much is rewarded, which in contrast to what people on here believe, is never a "Full Ride" and in most cases is not any where close. There is no scholarship awarded by the school...tie that with the 25 mile radius rule and the cost of tuition,and having to play up in classification there are some distinct negative consequences to private schools competing...ADDITIONALLY...public school districts do not regulate their transfers, and in 2018 LRSD and PCSSD students will be able to go to whatever school they want to as long as they provide their own transportation...at least now...they have to lie about their address...so I ask...where is the BIGGER problem? I know...everyone hates PA...I get that, and in most cases...people have no idea about the kids on the team, or the amount of work that they have to put in on top of a very challenging academic course load...why do you think the AAA hasn't done anything? Didn't they make NLR forfeit games for recruiting?

[MDXPHD]

PA Dad, this is a 5A football board, so of course I'm talking about the most dominant private school in 5A. Here, maybe this additional information will help you understand that it's not a narrow agenda against PA.

Trinity Christian, a small private school in Texarkana, has dominated the 1A track division for several years now on the girls side and did a few years ago on the boys side. They award way more athletes in track financial aid than they do in any of their other sports.

Episcopal awarded 8 high school basketball athletes financial aid last season. They only awarded 4 in football in 2016. Guess which sport they were good at?

Regardless of what private school supporters want to say (not you PA dad, you agree mostly), the advantages are too great to ignore anymore and change must occur. It's not just the financial aid. It's a combination of several advantages. There has to be a better method than to just bump them up a class if they have more than 80 kids. I guess after doing this research and writing my paper, I'm a little more bitter about the situation than before.

Private schools have won 40 percent of the girls soccer championships since 2007. In 5A girls soccer, they have won 75 percent, all of the losses to Harrison, and all of the runner ups were private schools. From 2008-2015, there were 48 championship tennis matches played. 23 were won by private schools. Private schools have won 17ish percent of the football titles, despite only making up 4 percent of the participating teams.

Other states have seen a similar rise in private school dominance. In 2012, Alabama watched private schools win 36 percent of the state championship in all sports. In California in 2012, all 5 mens basketball championships were won by private schools and 53 percent of the total championships were won by privates chools.

STBruin - According to the data reported to AAA, there was at least one football player who received almost 14k in financial aid. Surely this is a full ride, right? maybe it's not. On average, the 20 football players received about 7500 each, which is slightly more than half tuition. I have never assumed they give a lot of athletes a full ride.

Also, for those of you that have asked, PA gives 20.5 percent of their total student body financial aid. The only sport that gave a higher percentage than the 20.5 was football.

blueandwhite - I got the information from the documents required to be turned in to AAA.

privatelesson - I'm writing a paper on this topic and that's why I had to take some time off. Now I have some other stuff going on for the next few months, so I won't be on here very much. I read but don't post a ton these days.

So, the real question is, what should be done to fix this? Should Arkansas move to a success advancement system, similar to what Seven laid out earlier in this thread? Should private schools who give a 20 percent of their athletes financial aid in a specific sport be bumped up to the highest classification? There are plenty of options out there. Obviously, the current system is not working.

[gameoflife]

Boy, you just upset a bunch of folks.  I and a few of my friends have long thought the private school situation is out of balance.  There is only one real solution, separate leagues. Of course the private schools for the most part will not like it. 
Other possibilities,  Move the private schools up in class based on the number of scholarships they award for the sport in question or for the highest percentage of any sport.  Have them play in private conferences during the season, they could play anyone in the non conference part of the season. See no really good solution for the private schools. 

[PA Dad]

PA Dad, this is a 5A football board, so of course I'm talking about the most dominant private school in 5A. Here, maybe this additional information will help you understand that it's not a narrow agenda against PA.

Trinity Christian, a small private school in Texarkana, has dominated the 1A track division for several years now on the girls side and did a few years ago on the boys side. They award way more athletes in track financial aid than they do in any of their other sports.

Episcopal awarded 8 high school basketball athletes financial aid last season. They only awarded 4 in football in 2016. Guess which sport they were good at?

Regardless of what private school supporters want to say (not you PA dad, you agree mostly), the advantages are too great to ignore anymore and change must occur. It's not just the financial aid. It's a combination of several advantages. There has to be a better method than to just bump them up a class if they have more than 80 kids. I guess after doing this research and writing my paper, I'm a little more bitter about the situation than before.

Private schools have won 40 percent of the girls soccer championships since 2007. In 5A girls soccer, they have won 75 percent, all of the losses to Harrison, and all of the runner ups were private schools. From 2008-2015, there were 48 championship tennis matches played. 23 were won by private schools. Private schools have won 17ish percent of the football titles, despite only making up 4 percent of the participating teams.

Other states have seen a similar rise in private school dominance. In 2012, Alabama watched private schools win 36 percent of the state championship in all sports. In California in 2012, all 5 mens basketball championships were won by private schools and 53 percent of the total championships were won by privates chools.

STBruin - According to the data reported to AAA, there was at least one football player who received almost 14k in financial aid. Surely this is a full ride, right? maybe it's not. On average, the 20 football players received about 7500 each, which is slightly more than half tuition. I have never assumed they give a lot of athletes a full ride.

Also, for those of you that have asked, PA gives 20.5 percent of their total student body financial aid. The only sport that gave a higher percentage than the 20.5 was football.

blueandwhite - I got the information from the documents required to be turned in to AAA.

privatelesson - I'm writing a paper on this topic and that's why I had to take some time off. Now I have some other stuff going on for the next few months, so I won't be on here very much. I read but don't post a ton these days.

So, the real question is, what should be done to fix this? Should Arkansas move to a success advancement system, similar to what Seven laid out earlier in this thread? Should private schools who give a 20 percent of their athletes financial aid in a specific sport be bumped up to the highest classification? There are plenty of options out there. Obviously, the current system is not working.

MDX, you know I agree with you regarding private school advantages.  And, I'm in favor of moving schools up based on success.   My gripe is not with your arguments - I just don't like the "recruiting" conclusions drawn from your numbers.  The evidence doesn't support the "recruiting" conclusions.

[blueandwhite]

Somebody said that private schools use a third party to decide on financial aid, and they don't know who is and isn't an athlete, well this is directly from the PA website

Student's Name_______________________ Grade_______
Will this student be involved in school sponsored athletics? YES ___ NO _____
*Arkansas Activities Association requires all financial aid recipients in grades 7-12 to indicate if they will be
involved in school sponsored athletics in the year they will receive aid. You must indicate YES or NO above
or your financial aid application will not be process. If you elect to receive financial aid but did not qualify for
aid based on your SSS application, you child may not be involved in a PA athletic program. However, you may
choose to be involved in a PA athletic program and not receive financial aid. If you elect to receive aid and you
indicated NO for the question above but your child decides to play a sport, you will forfeit all or a portion of
your award.

[AmSycho]

This has been a fascinating topic of conversation, and until not I have not posted.

BUT.....

If nothing is affected by the knowledge of whether the student will be an athlete or not, why put it on the financial application?

[JessieP]

MDX, you know I agree with you regarding private school advantages.  And, I'm in favor of moving schools up based on success.   My gripe is not with your arguments - I just don't like the "recruiting" conclusions drawn from your numbers.  The evidence doesn't support the "recruiting" conclusions.

The clearing house post was quite laughable. They have no idea ? why ask the question ? I mean did anyone actually buy that ? "The clearing house has no idea if the person applying is an athlete or not, and the school that the applicant is applying for financial aid for has 0 to do with the application, approval or amount awarded" (insert hook in mouth), Come on. I promise you one thing, someone somewhere attaches an initial or some sort of unnoticeable stamp on that application and BOOM, it's approved.

[CoachTaylorPA]

On our team this year of the 30 players that were starters, played on special teams or immediate backups 24 have been at PA since before 6th grade.  Six players came in 7th and 8th grade.  I am not going to provide overly specific information as its not appropriate but of the 6 that came in 7th and 8th only 3 played regularly and three moved here from outside of little rock.  If I get a chance I will post similar information about our previous teams. 

[blueandwhite]

OK, OK, OK, let's say the private schools don't recruit (I can't believe I typed that). Private schools still have advantage over most public schools, in the way of financial support.

The private schools can throw as much money as they want at athletics, and the public schools have rules, regulations, and set budgets they have to work within.

How ya'll private school supporters going to defend that?

[JessieP]

On our team this year of the 30 players that were starters, played on special teams or immediate backups 24 have been at PA since before 6th grade.  Six players came in 7th and 8th grade.  I am not going to provide overly specific information as its not appropriate but of the 6 that came in 7th and 8th only 3 played regularly and three moved here from outside of little rock.  If I get a chance I will post similar information about our previous teams.

One of the driving forces behind many bad feelings about PA is that the AAA will never discipline them or question their methods. They have too much money and power. PA people tell us were crazy, jealous and everything else. CoachTaylorPA, who has always been polite, complementary and a pleasure to talk with, is now a moderator on this site. The discussion on the ethics on PA is now being moderated by....a coach at PA. Now this is not directed at CoachTaylor or his character. From what I've seen it's unimpeachable, he has always been an upfront guy. I do enjoy interacting with him, he knows his stuff. But please, tell me you at least see my point ? I mean come on. It's like a microcosm of a much bigger argument. That argument being "PA doesn't play by the same rules".  The people who run this site can do whatever they want, they may very well boot me for even questioning things. Discussing PA in a questioning manner may very well be a death sentence here. But what would you think if you went to a boxing match and the announcer said "The referee for tonight's fight between Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield will be Mike Tyson's manager".

[MDXPHD]

MDX, you know I agree with you regarding private school advantages.  And, I'm in favor of moving schools up based on success.   My gripe is not with your arguments - I just don't like the "recruiting" conclusions drawn from your numbers.  The evidence doesn't support the "recruiting" conclusions.

I have said it multiple times...I have no evidence of recruiting. You know the other advantages are the ones I'm concerned about. I think I'm going to post my paper here when I finish it. Probably around August or so. If anyone is interested. Sorry Grond, I'm not sure how objective it will seem. It may have some bias against private schools. 

JessieP, check your private messages.

Coach Taylor, appreciate you posting some information. I'm not concerned about when kids come, but others on here seem to be focused on that. So maybe that will help them out.