I'm tired of Cubs fans on Twitter saying things to me about Oscar Tavares (among other topics) every time the Cardinals play and I tweet about it, so I'm going to open this thread for Cardinals talk. I hope this doesn't turn into a thread to talk about how great the Cubs are (if you want to do that, I hope you'll show some respect and open a new thread).
The Cardinals are currently 35-32 after today's choke job. They are 11 games out of first place in the Central pending the Cubs game tonight. They are 0.5 behind Marlins for the second wild card and 1.5 behind the Mets for the first Wild Card
Cardinals take a bad loss today, 5-4 to the Rangers, to fall to 35-33. They are now 12.0 out of first, 1.0 behind the Mets, and 0.5 behind the Marlins and Dodgers
Still plenty of season. They probably need to make a splash in the trade market at some point, but there's time.
It feels like this team is just poised to turn the corner. We will very likely get a wild card, but I imagine (assuming we get the corner turned), and then earn ourselves a matchup with the Cubs. The talent is there.
Cards take down the Scrubs 3-2!
The Cardinals take down the Cubs again by a score of 4-3! The Cardinals are now 10.5 back in the division, 0.5 behind the Mets for the second wild card, and 1.5 behind the Dodgers for the first wild cars
Cards win 7-2 to sweep the Cubs!!!!!!!
;D way to go cards!!!!!!!!!!!
Heck yeah, maybe the Redbird are finally coming to life this year.
I hope so! I'll trade every single one of my teams being terrible just for the Cards to be good
Get out the brooms!
This thread died a painful death.
Some of us didn't have time to update all the time. Get a life besides trolling Cards fans
Boy did I misjudge you, this is sports and supposed to be just all in fun. You can dish it out all day and double on Sunday, but don't take it near as well. Sorry to offend, all was in jest. Like I do with a hundred people face to face everyday good or bad. Take care.
#notawinner 😂😂😂
108 years 😂😂😂
You better quit, you will hurt my feelings & I will start crying.
You sure talk a lot for a guy whose team has never done anything. You're like a little yippy dog who always barks and tries to look all big and bad but then cower away when presented with facts. The facts are that y'all haven't won a World Series in 108 years. Winning the division this year doesn't change that. Now run along and start a Cubs thread where you can revel in your inadequacy and repeated failures
I like the argument of using the past as to why fans can't throw jabs at each other about this years successes and failures..../sarcasm
Quote from: Fred Bird on September 23, 2016, 09:22:45 pm
You sure talk a lot for a guy whose team has never done anything. You're like a little yippy dog who always barks and tries to look all big and bad but then cower away when presented with facts. The facts are that y'all haven't won a World Series in 108 years. Winning the division this year doesn't change that. Now run along and start a Cubs thread where you can revel in your inadequacy and repeated failures
Grow up or as you tell everyone else on this board, leave.
Truth hurts
#notawinner 😂😂😂😂
Aren't the Cubs up by like 20 games now? I sure hope the Cards find a way in the NLDS. It will look a lot like last year
Quote from: Fred Bird on September 25, 2016, 09:17:21 am
Truth hurts
I would be a cardinal fan if cared about baseball....but talking trash while 20 games back and a game back in thebplayoffs makes as much sense as Paris talking trash to charleston
Makes about as much sense as someone talking trash when their parents weren't born the last time the Cubs won
Tough way to end the season, but we'll be back next year. Go Orioles and not Cubs!
Wow, the Cards didn't make the playoffs? Dang...
It was a tough season, but I still thank God I'm not a Cubs fan
Thank God I am! Not getting to watch your team during the postseason has to suck. Go Cubs!
If you're a Cubs fan then you have a lot of experience not watching your team in the postseason
Quote from: Fred Bird on October 04, 2016, 02:40:17 pm
If you're a Cubs fan then you have a lot of experience not watching your team in the postseason
Last year and this year have been great though! Will probably dominate the division for years to come too. Can't wait. This will probably be close to the norm for the Cards for the near future.
If that speculation helps you sleep at night...
Quote from: Fred Bird on October 04, 2016, 10:25:06 pm
If that speculation helps you sleep at night...
Doesn't help me sleep, just assures I go to sleep happy
The Cubs will find some way screw this up. Though their GM did bring a title Boston.
Never been a fan of the Cards or Cowboys. The Cards because that's all you can see in this area and the Cowboys mainly because of their fans. Everyone saying they are are going to the super bowl when they have beaten two teams who are going to finish with like 4 wins at best and lost to one team that they played with a winning record. This isn't the 90's, though my wife still thinks it is
You just called out my two teams
Hope you aren't a Irish or Longhorn fan. Those two teams when they played earlier this year, I wished they both could lose somehow. I actually find joy each time they lose lol
Quote from: bdubyab60 on October 06, 2016, 08:52:10 pm
Hope you aren't a Irish or Longhorn fan. Those two teams when they played earlier this year, I wished they both could lose somehow. I actually find joy each time they lose lol
Notre Dame is hands down the worst!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: beach bum on October 06, 2016, 08:56:42 pm
Notre Dame is hands down the worst!!!!!!!!!!!
We can agree on that. I only check to see if they lost on game day.
Cardinals signed Dexter Fowler!!!
I was so excited to see this move! Perfect!
Still a LONG ways away from the Cubs in the division.
Nah
Quote from: WPWells on December 15, 2016, 11:12:00 am
Nah
Cubs have a better lineup, starting rotation, and bullpen by a long shot. Dexter Fowler is not shrinking that gap by much lol
Joe Maddon:
"As Dexter Fowler goes, we go"
Cubs bullpen was the weak point of the team last year so I'm not sure where you're getting that. Cubs starters will regress to the mean this year while the Cardinals get Lynn back from TJ. You're feeling really groggy for someone who's won once in 108 years and had to tank to do it.
Quote from: WPWells on December 16, 2016, 10:14:22 am
Joe Maddon:
"As Dexter Fowler goes, we go"
Cubs bullpen was the weak point of the team last year so I'm not sure where you're getting that. Cubs starters will regress to the mean this year while the Cardinals get Lynn back from TJ. You're feeling really groggy for someone who's won once in 108 years and had to tank to do it.
The bullpen was the weak point of the team because the lineup and starting rotation were the best in the league lol. But with Strop, Rondon, and Davis in the back end, thats solid. The starting rotation's era will probably regress a little, yes. But we'll still have one of the better rotations in baseball and we'll most definitely improve on offense with Schwarber coming back and J Hey having a better year. Cards can't compete with that.
Again, big talk for a team who won the World Series for the first time in 108 years.
Quote from: WPWells on December 19, 2016, 09:10:43 am
Again, big talk for a team who won the World Series for the first time in 108 years.
I'm assuming history will be your go-to comeback for the next 5-10 years. I love it
5-10 years? I would have thought you knew baseball better than that. The Cardinals just signed the richest tv deal in history. The Cubs have a very poor deal that runs for several more years. They have their whole core about to be in contract years, and they won't be able to get them for the rock bottom contracts they have now. Enjoy your little time at the top because you have AT MOST this year and one other.
Quote from: WPWells on December 19, 2016, 10:21:23 am
5-10 years? I would have thought you knew baseball better than that. The Cardinals just signed the richest tv deal in history. The Cubs have a very poor deal that runs for several more years. They have their whole core about to be in contract years, and they won't be able to get them for the rock bottom contracts they have now. Enjoy your little time at the top because you have AT MOST this year and one other.
Money will not be a problem when they sign the younger guys lol. We have so much depth we don't even know what to do with it now. Theo will have this team at the top for way more than 1 or 2 years. Lol I thought you knew baseball better than that.
It's easy to make broad statements. Why won't money be an issue? You tanked to get the team where it is now. These players are coming to the end of their contracts. Do you not think Bryant, Rizzo, Arrieta, et al know what they're worth now? Did Dexter Fowler give the Cubs a discount or did he go to the team that was willing to pay?
Also, the fact that you can't make a post without including "lol" shows the level of intelligence you bring to this discussion.
Quote from: WPWells on December 19, 2016, 12:34:55 pm
It's easy to make broad statements. Why won't money be an issue? You tanked to get the team where it is now. These players are coming to the end of their contracts. Do you not think Bryant, Rizzo, Arrieta, et al know what they're worth now? Did Dexter Fowler give the Cubs a discount or did he go to the team that was willing to pay?
Also, the fact that you can't make a post without including "lol" shows the level of intelligence you bring to this discussion.
Yes, Fowler came on a big discount last year to win a wolrld series. Sure, he wanted to get paid this year, but we didn't need to pay another outfielder big money. I'm sure we would have if our outfield wasn't already stacked.
Also, Arrieta won't command huge money next year because of his age.
Bryant, Rizzo, Russell, Baez, Schwarber, Contreras, Heyward, Hendricks, and Almora are all under Cubs control until 2022.
Apparently you can't read either as I said "broad" not "bold." You say the Cubs will be fine because they have depth, but you don't provide any details.
I'm through talking about the Cubs. If you want to blather about them make a thread about them.
Quote from: WPWells on December 19, 2016, 02:09:39 pm
Apparently you can't read either as I said "broad" not "bold." You say the Cubs will be fine because they have depth, but you don't provide any details.
I'm through talking about the Cubs. If you want to blather about them make a thread about them.
I just provided you contract details, which you were wrong about. What other details do you want?
Love to get in on a baseball discussion. Everyone up here in Jonesboro loves the Cardinals, but most people up here think they are going to stink this year. I don't think that's true, they all think they were terrible and they still almost made the playoffs haha. I think they will be fine, but the Cubs do seem to be a machine right now. There are some weaknesses no doubt. I don't really like the Davis move, he's been dominant, but was a little bit more down to earth last year on some of his peripherals so he may be declining. That said, they got him for cheaper than they would have a free agent and they have the prospect capital to move some.
They have that core in place for a while, but I think their rotation has the chance to struggle and the bullpen is ok, not great, but if Heyward gets going and Schwarber hits, their lineup really doesn't have a huge weakness and that will win a lot of regular-season ball games. Could get dicey in the playoffs though.
As for the Cards, love the Fowler signing. I think they will be fine, probably a wild card contending team again unless Lynn really improves the rotation. They always seem to be there in the end no matter what though.
Quote from: dc24 on December 20, 2016, 01:56:30 am
Love to get in on a baseball discussion. Everyone up here in Jonesboro loves the Cardinals, but most people up here think they are going to stink this year. I don't think that's true, they all think they were terrible and they still almost made the playoffs haha. I think they will be fine, but the Cubs do seem to be a machine right now. There are some weaknesses no doubt. I don't really like the Davis move, he's been dominant, but was a little bit more down to earth last year on some of his peripherals so he may be declining. That said, they got him for cheaper than they would have a free agent and they have the prospect capital to move some.
They have that core in place for a while, but I think their rotation has the chance to struggle and the bullpen is ok, not great, but if Heyward gets going and Schwarber hits, their lineup really doesn't have a huge weakness and that will win a lot of regular-season ball games. Could get dicey in the playoffs though.
As for the Cards, love the Fowler signing. I think they will be fine, probably a wild card contending team again unless Lynn really improves the rotation. They always seem to be there in the end no matter what though.
If the Cubs can find a quality 5th starter, that rotation won't struggle with Lester, Arrieta, and Hendricks, and Lackey filling 1-4. Sure, Lackey isn't going to be a world beater, but he'll pitch a good number of quality innings with an ERA in the mid to high 3's. The other 3 are Cy Young candidates.
The bullpen will be the biggest issue, but I still like having Strop, Rondon, Carl Edwards Jr., and Davis in the back end. That's better than what most teams have. I worry about losing Travis Wood, though.
I agree the Cardinals made a great signing in Fowler. Loved having him in Chicago. I also agree that the Cards might be a playoff team, I just don't think they'll be competing for the division.
Quote from: Redwolves8526 on December 20, 2016, 08:20:28 am
If the Cubs can find a quality 5th starter, that rotation won't struggle with Lester, Arrieta, and Hendricks, and Lackey filling 1-4. Sure, Lackey isn't going to be a world beater, but he'll pitch a good number of quality innings with an ERA in the mid to high 3's. The other 3 are Cy Young candidates.
The bullpen will be the biggest issue, but I still like having Strop, Rondon, Carl Edwards Jr., and Davis in the back end. That's better than what most teams have. I worry about losing Travis Wood, though.
I agree the Cardinals made a great signing in Fowler. Loved having him in Chicago. I also agree that the Cards might be a playoff team, I just don't think they'll be competing for the division.
I'm not quite as sold on their rotation as you. Lester is good, but he's a head case. Can't throw to first base, give me a break. I kind of hate him, haha, but that said, he's a very good pitcher. Love Arrieta, always knew he had the talent, but he did look more human in the second half of the year, still a super good human, but not godly, as he was for a while there. He's also been very bad in his career, and baseball is a funny sport so he may keep slipping, not saying it's likely, but could happen. Hendricks is great, but again, he probably overperformed last year and should still be good, but no one should expect him to be that good again. I keep expecting Lackey to fall off a cliff, but he just doesn't, haha. No doubt, he's about as good of a four as you can find.
Now, they may all go out there and be awesome and contend for the Cy Young, but I don't expect them too. I just think their offense will carry them. Yes, their bullpen is good, but again there are better out there. I still think the Cubs are the best team in baseball, but as with how baseball usually is, the gap is closer to other teams than people think.
First place let's keep it rolling against the Cubs
I'll bump this back up. Let's not have this turn into a Cubs trash talk thread again.
Man the NL Central stinks though and not trying to be a drag either here... I say that as the NL Central being what I follow the most and it is utterly shocking how bad some of those teams are. That being said I think the Brewers might slip at some point. You know as good as anybody how quirky baseball is and the Brewers could easily go 3-10 in a 13 game stretch and then one of the Pirates, Cubs, or Cardinals go 10-3 in that same stretch and boom one of those teams jumps into first. Also, at that point the team that did that would be quite hot going into the postseason. Was it the Phillies or Mets that just tanked that one September what feels like about a half decade ago now? I don't follow baseball that hard, but that is the one thing about it.... You can never say never until mathematically it says you are out of it.
It was the Braves who tanked - trust me, I remember because it let the Cardinals steal the wild card and then run through the playoffs and win the World Series!
Fire Matheny
Suddenly the Cardinals are within 2.5 games of the Chicago baseball club...
Quote from: WPWells on August 09, 2017, 09:43:30 am
Suddenly the Cardinals are within 2.5 games of the Chicago baseball club...
Any of those top four teams in the NL Central just need to go on a type of stretch where they win 10 out of 12 or something like that somewhere in the final 6 weeks and they'll win the division. It's still way up in the air with those top 4.
1.5 #RallyCat
Huge Series today boys!!
Started off gross
It's time to fire Matheny and move in a different direction.
Quote from: WPWells on October 01, 2017, 11:37:45 pm
It's time to fire Matheny and move in a different direction.
Who would you want that is better?
Well when a national writer ranks your manager #30 out of 30 in the MLB, then there are a lot of options.
Some concrete names: Stubby Clapp, Ron Gardenhire, José Oquendo, Mike Schildt, Joe Girardi (originally from Illinois near St. Louis), and others who might just want to come manage a franchise with tradition.
Quote from: WPWells on October 02, 2017, 10:48:07 am
Well when a national writer ranks your manager #30 out of 30 in the MLB, then there are a lot of options.
Some concrete names: Stubby Clapp, Ron Gardenhire, José Oquendo, Mike Schildt, Joe Girardi (originally from Illinois near St. Louis), and others who might just want to come manage a franchise with tradition.
I think about 90% of the decision will be based on the amount of money they are willing to pay for a manager and how much money the guy is currently making.
The Cards have been trending downward though recently.
2013: Lost in World Series.
2014:Lost in National League Championship Series.
2015:Lost in National League Divisional Series.
2016:Eliminated from Post Season Contention on Oct. 2nd.
2017: Eliminated from Post Season Contention on Sept. 28th.
As a Cubs fan, I hope that "Phillies-style" trend continues. But I will say this, at the Major League Baseball level, it doesn't have as much to do with the manager as it does the front office. During the season, managers manage players. During the postseason, managers manage games. If they don't have the right players to make it to the post-season (which they don't in my opinion), it falls on the front office, not Matheny.
Quote from: ThiefOfDiamonds8 on October 02, 2017, 11:19:08 am
I think about 90% of the decision will be based on the amount of money they are willing to pay for a manager and how much money the guy is currently making.
The Cards have been trending downward though recently.
2013: Lost in World Series.
2014:Lost in National League Championship Series.
2015:Lost in National League Divisional Series.
2016:Eliminated from Post Season Contention on Oct. 2nd.
2017: Eliminated from Post Season Contention on Sept. 28th.
As a Cubs fan, I hope that "Phillies-style" trend continues. But I will say this, at the Major League Baseball level, it doesn't have as much to do with the manager as it does the front office. During the season, managers manage players. During the postseason, managers manage games. If they don't have the right players to make it to the post-season (which they don't in my opinion), it falls on the front office, not Matheny.
Completely agree with the last paragraph. I do not think this all falls on Matheny. They just do not have the players right now. And their farm system isn't as good as it usually is. The Cubs will dominate this division for the near future.
I can point to specific instances throughout the season where a decision Matheny made (that seemed like the wrong decision even before hindsight bias) lost a game. A different manager would have had this team in the playoffs each of the last two seasons.
Also, it's obvious that the players don't enjoy playing for Matheny.
I don't expect Cubs fans who don't follow the team closely to understand how inexplicable Matheny's decisions are at times.
Quote from: WPWells on October 02, 2017, 01:01:32 pm
I can point to specific instances throughout the season where a decision Matheny made (that seemed like the wrong decision even before hindsight bias) lost a game. A different manager would have had this team in the playoffs each of the last two seasons.
Also, it's obvious that the players don't enjoy playing for Matheny.
I don't expect Cubs fans who don't follow the team closely to understand how inexplicable Matheny's decisions are at times.
Due to MLB TV restrictions, I end up watching probably more Cardinals games then I would like to admit (I'm not a big fan of their announcers). It could be worse though; I could be forced to watch the White Sox with Hawk Harrellson.
I see what you are saying about Matheny's decision making on some occasions. I've noticed it a couple of times myself. But I'm not sure how "out of the ordinary" that really is. Even Maddon, who is considered one of the better tier managers in the game, gets second guessed pretty often. That's just the nature of the job. Maddon gets hammered for not using the bunt as often as some may think. However, if you look at the situations, he isn't wrong. It just isn't his philosophy to waste an out moving a runner over to 2nd base when the next batter is more than likely going to be walked thus setting up an inning-ending double play possibility. The same goes with Matheny. Although I dislike St. Louis, I have to think that Matheny probably knows more about the game of baseball than pretty much any of us on this message board. His knowledge of the game shouldn't get him fired. If he doesn't have control over the clubhouse or any of those internal player-management style issues, then yes he will probably be fired. I just don't see how you can fire a guy if his team has NOT under-performed (which is the case I see with St Louis). They just don't have enough talent to really match up right now with the powerhouses of the NL. The Cubs have 6 players with over 20 Homeruns (3 with 29 or more). Cubs starting pitchers and bullpen are better than what is currently in St Louis (especially when Lynn goes elsewhere after this season). St. Louis is basically playing for the Wild Card...a wild card in which the Diamondbacks won one of the two available spots with 93 wins and the 3rd best record in the National League. That only leaves one open spot for them.
Once again, if it is a clubhouse issue, yes he should probably go. But I think the lack of production falls more on the players and the front office than the decisions he makes throughout the course of the season.