Missouri HS's 60-2 vs Arkansas HS' over last 3 years?

[arthurhawgerelli]

Is this right?  Arkansas high schools playing their first game of the season against the Mo schools playing their 3rd at the same time.

Somebody ask Buzz Bolding and the other retired guys if there are any stats showing that heat related problems are any worse in August in Missouri after the coaches association led the defeat of starting games a week earlier in the name of safety?

I'm all about safety, but since they basically practice year round, should Arkansas high schools consider at least adding a second scrimmage game?

I'm not meaning to just call Coach Bolding out. He's the president of the association; he should be their spokesman. I'm asking a legitimate question.

[SouthpawSensation]

Arthur,
You are correct. Webb City and Kansas City Rockhurst were playing their third game of the season, while Har-Ber and Bentonville was opening its season.
Missouri rules are a little different, though, when dealing with heat. When the temperatures hit a certain mark, there are extra timeouts officials use for watering purposes.
Now, let me point out that this is the first year that Missouri has moved up its schedule to two weeks ahead of Arkansas. Missouri admits it's still a basketball-driven state, and it wants all football done by Thanksgiving weekend. It made for strange playoff situations (a game on Wednesday, the next game on Monday and a game the following Saturday) the past few years, so it moved up the schedule to give the playoffs some breathing room.
The flip side of that situation that a lot of Missouri schools can't find out-of-state games unless they go to Kentucky because nobody else opens that early. Oklahoma and Kansas open the same week as Arkansas.
And the president of the Arkansas Football Coaches Association now is Scott Reed of El Dorado.

[webbfootball03]

#1) There is no way that stat is remotely correct. I can think of two ark wins last year week 1 (Har-Ber and Bentonville)

#2) This is the first year Missouri has started two weeks earlier than Arkansas.  They moved back starting time of the year this year to make all playoff games on Friday nights instead of the previous way it was set up (Thursday, Wednesday, Monday, then Saturday)

[SouthpawSensation]

Bentonville, I know, was 5-0 against Missouri schools (3-0 vs. Fort Zumwalt West; 2-0 vs. Rockhurst) since 2010 before the loss to Rockhurst last night.

[arthurhawgerelli]

I was repeating the 60-2 stat that might have been stated as hyperbole. I honestly have nothing but the utmost respect for Coach Bolding and any retired coach. I guess that Missouri has been starting just one week before Arkansas this year?  I'd truly like to see the chance to play a 2nd scrimmage game, rather than start a week earlier.

The sooner football season can start, the better for me. I just know that I've never seen any stats that show that schools in the south that start earlier than Arkansas have has any sort of higher heat related problems. I didn't mean to come across as bashing, I would like to see the real stat of Arkansas schools vs border state schools that start earlier. Missouri and Texas start earlier. What about Oklahoma, Louisiana, Mississippi and Louisiana? 

I'll move this the the appropriate area instead if 7A board when I'm off my phone.

[ricepig]

I thought Scott Reed was President of the coaches association?

[SouthpawSensation]

Oklahoma starts the same week as Arkansas.
Texas, Tennessee and Mississippi all start one week earlier. Not sure about Louisiana, but I want to say it starts the same week as Arkansas.
________
Now about the proposal to start the season earlier that was brought up this summer.
Most football coaches were hit with it by surprise. A lot of them didn't know it was going to be voted on until they met during All-Star week during a football coaching clinic. They have a feeling they know who started it, but they're not totally sure. Many of them believe it was brought up by a basketball coach because of what happened with the playoffs last year and the inclement weather.
The football coaches also didn't like it because it would put the 7A, 6A and 5A championship games on Thanksgiving weekend, which bring about the worst gates by many high schools. It also put them up against a big college rivalry weekend, including Arkansas vs. Missouri. Now, the new blended conference proposal that passed will do it anyway for 7A and 6A, but at least they have a season or so to adjust things (11-game schedule which includes an extra nonconference game, an open date between nonconference and conference play, etc.).
Here's something else to consider. Let's say the UA powers-to-be decide to move that Missouri game to Little Rock because it's farther away from Columbia than Fayetteville is. Of course, WMS officials will jump at it because it will get more money from the Hogs than they would from whatever teams went to the state finals, so the AAA would have to find a new place to play. Where would they go?

[HorseFeathers]

Oklahoma starts the same week as Arkansas.
Texas, Tennessee and Mississippi all start one week earlier. Not sure about Louisiana, but I want to say it starts the same week as Arkansas.
________
Now about the proposal to start the season earlier that was brought up this summer.
Most football coaches were hit with it by surprise. A lot of them didn't know it was going to be voted on until they met during All-Star week during a football coaching clinic. They have a feeling they know who started it, but they're not totally sure. Many of them believe it was brought up by a basketball coach because of what happened with the playoffs last year and the inclement weather.
The football coaches also didn't like it because it would put the 7A, 6A and 5A championship games on Thanksgiving weekend, which bring about the worst gates by many high schools. It also put them up against a big college rivalry weekend, including Arkansas vs. Missouri. Now, the new blended conference proposal that passed will do it anyway for 7A and 6A, but at least they have a season or so to adjust things (11-game schedule which includes an extra nonconference game, an open date between nonconference and conference play, etc.).
Here's something else to consider. Let's say the UA powers-to-be decide to move that Missouri game to Little Rock because it's farther away from Columbia than Fayetteville is. Of course, WMS officials will jump at it because it will get more money from the Hogs than they would from whatever teams went to the state finals, so the AAA would have to find a new place to play. Where would they go?

UCA, Tech, Arkansas State, Razorback Stadium ....A neutral site that the two schools involved agreed upon?

As far as the water breaks go...I seen at least a half dozen official timeout water breaks at Hector Friday night...

[Locutus]

It really wouldn't be fair to allow the 7A Finals to be played at the UofA. We really try to give the Central the home field advantage.

[Coach DePriest, Sheridan]

The Thanksgiving argument never held water because of the other likelihood proposal passing.  We have two and a half hour team camps in July with no half time, so for us, I don't think the heat would be an issue; however, all teams don't do as much during the summer while some do more (much more).

I predict that adding an optional scrimmage game a week early may be proposed next year.  It gives teams a chance to compete against another team a week earlier if they want and could bring in more money for the schools/AAA.  Teams that choose not to do it for whatever reason, don't have to...just like they don't have to play a scrimmage game now.

[Rulesman]

Most Mississippi and Tennessee schools played their third football game on Friday night. An early start is nothing new for them. And in Tennessee, when it heat index reaches 105, the TSSAA mandates that everything outdoors stops until the heat index drops - football practice, games, band practice, soccer, even fall golf. It doesn't matter what the activity is. In my opinion school shouldn't start until after Labor Day either, but I don't have a vote in that argument.

[Hogskin]

MO football is a joke that stat is accually turned around the other way. In MO they have no off season or summer mandatory they just wanted to start early so basketball will get here sooner

[webbfootball03]

Lol! Again that stat was probably made up. It's not reversed. I can think of 3 Missouri wins in two years just between Webb City and Rockhurst.  Which state is better? I couldn't tell ya but I can guarantee there isn't much of a difference.  Missouri currently has 3 teams ranked in the top 45 in the nation with Webb City the lowest at #45.  If a team like Webb City played in Arkansas class 4 or 5 (Idk what the cutoff is in Ark, we have just under 1200 grade 9-12) they would still be just as dominant.  It's all relative.

[webbfootball03]

But to recap; Webb City throttled Rockhurst ( a solid 6A team that may or may not make the playoffs) Then whips up on Har-Ber (again a solid team but probably won't make much noise) At the same time Rockhurst beats the states top team in Bentonville who has a legit chance to win state but Missouri football sucks! Yeah ok.

[webbfootball03]

For what it's worth , I think Har-Ber beats Rockhurst in a very close game. They are better up front but Rockhurst has more speed for sure

[Razorback Red]

Lol! Again that stat was probably made up. It's not reversed. I can think of 3 Missouri wins in two years just between Webb City and Rockhurst.  Which state is better? I couldn't tell ya but I can guarantee there isn't much of a difference.  Missouri currently has 3 teams ranked in the top 45 in the nation with Webb City the lowest at #45.  If a team like Webb City played in Arkansas class 4 or 5 (Idk what the cutoff is in Ark, we have just under 1200 grade 9-12) they would still be just as dominant.  It's all relative.

I agree with this assessment.  I think Webb City would dominate 5A or 4A in AR right now.  They are a heck of a program. 

I don't think there's a lot of difference in the power schools (top 5) in MO and AR.  For years I would have said MO was better, but the last few years I would lean AR.  I think it is hurting MO a bit right now that none of the St Louis area schools have been strong the past 3 or 4 years.  Blue Springs has been the power program of late.  It has also hurt MO a little the past few years that Rockhurst has not been as strong.  Looking ahead, it is going to hurt AR when Bville splits in 2 years.  MO definitely has more good teams and D1 recruits due to 2 major cities vs. 1 in AR. 

[webbfootball03]

Last few years I think Blue Springs would have been very competitive with any school in Arkansas.  Likely would have beat them. They aren't as good this year. And your right with the St. Louis schools. They always have huge talent but as a team Kansas City schools are more disciplined and overall better. I can't tell you with 6A but in 4a the west side of the state has won about 20 state championships out of the last 21

[SouthpawSensation]

Lol! Again that stat was probably made up. It's not reversed. I can think of 3 Missouri wins in two years just between Webb City and Rockhurst.  Which state is better? I couldn't tell ya but I can guarantee there isn't much of a difference.  Missouri currently has 3 teams ranked in the top 45 in the nation with Webb City the lowest at #45.  If a team like Webb City played in Arkansas class 4 or 5 (Idk what the cutoff is in Ark, we have just under 1200 grade 9-12) they would still be just as dominant.  It's all relative.

Let the record show that the "ranking" he is going by is calpreps.com, which is strictly computer-based.
If you look at the nationalhsfootball.com poll, there is only one Missouri team ranked in its top 100, and that is Lee's Summit West (in at No. 98).

[webbfootball03]

Lol! Again that stat was probably made up. It's not reversed. I can think of 3 Missouri wins in two years just between Webb City and Rockhurst.  Which state is better? I couldn't tell ya but I can guarantee there isn't much of a difference.  Missouri currently has 3 teams ranked in the top 45 in the nation with Webb City the lowest at #45.  If a team like Webb City played in Arkansas class 4 or 5 (Idk what the cutoff is in Ark, we have just under 1200 grade 9-12) they would still be just as dominant.  It's all relative.

Let the record show that the "ranking" he is going by is calpreps.com, which is strictly computer-based.
If you look at the nationalhsfootball.com poll, there is only one Missouri team ranked in its top 100, and that is Lee's Summit West (in at No. 98).

actually I was going by Max preps powered by CBS

[webbfootball03]

I've never heard of calpreps.com but I'll check it out and let you know what I find

[Razorback Red]

There are too many HS polls.  I believe the most recognized is the National HS football (formerly rivals).

Nationalhsfootball.com

[webbfootball03]

Calpreps.com was a mess and I gave up on it . Honestly I don't care. Max preps has Webb City at #45 and I know that's a joke. There are probably 15 teams in Texas or more that would destroy them......point is ; Missouri football and Arkansas football aren't much different.  Both states have elite big class teams and a few smaller teams that are just as good such as Webb City and Green wood

[HorseFeathers]

Lol! Again that stat was probably made up. It's not reversed. I can think of 3 Missouri wins in two years just between Webb City and Rockhurst.  Which state is better? I couldn't tell ya but I can guarantee there isn't much of a difference.  Missouri currently has 3 teams ranked in the top 45 in the nation with Webb City the lowest at #45.  If a team like Webb City played in Arkansas class 4 or 5 (Idk what the cutoff is in Ark, we have just under 1200 grade 9-12) they would still be just as dominant.  It's all relative.

I agree with this assessment.  I think Webb City would dominate 5A or 4A in AR right now.  They are a heck of a program. 

I don't think there's a lot of difference in the power schools (top 5) in MO and AR.  For years I would have said MO was better, but the last few years I would lean AR.  I think it is hurting MO a bit right now that none of the St Louis area schools have been strong the past 3 or 4 years.  Blue Springs has been the power program of late.  It has also hurt MO a little the past few years that Rockhurst has not been as strong.  Looking ahead, it is going to hurt AR when Bville splits in 2 years.  MO definitely has more good teams and D1 recruits due to 2 major cities vs. 1 in AR. 

Webb City would probably be a 6A school though, which they would probably be a top 5ish team there at least.

[webbfootball03]

For what's it worth: USA Today has Webb City at #30

[Lions84]

No way is the Zoo 60-2 against Ark HS teams.  They lost to the NWA teams more than 7 times.

[webbfootball03]

Rockhurst just put a beat down on Har-Ber.  Too bad Missouri high school football is terrible