coaching

[BB Junkie]

Got a a serious question.
We have a coach who will not cut players, no matter how bad they are. But they will continue to run and run a group of dedicated players into the ground and make them almost quit the team for the others mistakes. Does this make any sence??  Now let me give you a real head scratcher, this coach has 25 7th graders that they coached last year knowing that would move up into Jr varsity. They never cut ANY ONE OF THEM AND PLAYED THEM ALL in rotation no matter how bad. So now this coach has 25 + 9 for JR girls and this coach is running the kids into the ground who are dedicated because they don't have the guts to cut the weak ones.

Please understand I'm not blaming the kids as I explain below, but you can't keep 30 kids for 5 playing position can you??

[DogsWin7]

1st....What's "your" definition of a bad player??

[BB Junkie]

I'm sorry wrong discription, kids who have had no parents or coach to teach them any skill or fundamentals. Not the kids fault just NO ONE to take the time to really teach them ANYTHING!!!

[Coach DePriest, Sheridan]

Good for the coach.  Sounds like he understands he is coaching 7th grade basketball and keeping every kid involved and staying in the program so he can have an impact on all of their lives, not just the ones who have basketball skills.  There is a point where you have to cut for the good of the program, and for some, that is at the 7th grade level, but I applaud a coach who is willing to hold on to that many kids.  Teach them the fundamentals and get as many of those kids staying in basketball as possible, ESPECIALLY the ones who have no parents!!!  Cut them from basketball, then who are the going to look up to?

[Brian G]

A lot of growth and skill development are still on the table for players that young.  I've seen many players come from off the radar as well as seen players that dominated youth leagues fall to the wayside.

[BB Junkie]

I guess my paragraph wasn't long enough, these kids all will be 8th graders this year, by not cutting last year they have all moved up. So here's my question in a nut shell, should this coach run kids in the ground that play AAU ball, take private lessions, and who work hard on their skills, for the kids who just show up at school practice to be on the team. Or should the coach break the kids up and run them as necessary?

Also these kids have parents, just not as involved as other parents.

[Coach DePriest, Sheridan]

If they are conditioning, then he should run them all even if he has marathon runners. What they do outside of his practice is their own deal.

If it is punishment for poor decisions, then he should run them all because they are a team and they are all hurt by the mistakes of their teammates on and off the court.  It creates accountability to each other. If that doesn't help solve the problems, then he may consider individual punishment.

Whether we are talking 7th grade, 8th grade, or senior high ball, a each coach has his own thoughts on cutting players and what that does to them as individual people and what it does to the team. My advice to you since you are so concerned about it would be to either (a)just trust that the coach has a very good reason for doing what he is doing and not question him on a public forum or (b) go talk to him and get his reasons straight from the horse's mouth , not on a public forum.

[BB Junkie]

I wanted an honest consensus across the board. A coach is naturally going to take up for another coach, that's exactly why I ask on a public forum.

Also after rereading your response I have one more question to ask, so its ok that the kids that work their heart out should be punished for the kids who just show up just to maybe get a jersey, but more than likely will never get to play, in your judgement, right?? because it's a team thing?!?!

[Brian G]

So what you want is a yes man.

[Coach DePriest, Sheridan]

I'm not sticking up for another coach, I tend to stick up for what is right.  I'm talking about how you should treat other humans in general, coaching aside.  If you have a problem with what someone is doing (boss, employee, spouse, child, friend, student, player, coach), go talk to them.  Usually that is the best way to resolve conflict.

[BB Junkie]

No, what I'm saying is sometimes it drags you down, dragging other people along that aren't willing to put out the effort.

[Brian G]

I suggest golf.

[BB Junkie]

Been there done that, scholarships available, the kid likes basketball!!

[TSW]

So your kid is complaining b/c he has to run a lot, be a dad and tell him he will be in better condition than any other team they play. You have to have some of those non gifted people to practice against . If the coach can handle that many players , good for him . More always drop out the older they get. If the non athlete can handle the running w/o quitting surely the gifted ones can handle the work load.

[arthurhawgerelli]

I wanted an honest consensus across the board. A coach is naturally going to take up for another coach, that's exactly why I ask on a public forum.

Also after rereading your response I have one more question to ask, so its ok that the kids that work their heart out should be punished for the kids who just show up just to maybe get a jersey, but more than likely will never get to play, in your judgement, right?? because it's a team thing?!?!

Wait, you asked for opinions, but because somebody, that some might even call an expert because he is inside the profession, doesn't give the answer you want, you dismiss it? 

What if you're looking for advice on retail, and Sam Walton's ghost has an opinion?  Would you expect him to give poor advice? 

Without all the details, I agree with what his been suggested.  Sounds like the coach understands those stories of Scottie Pippen being too short to make his freshman team, and Michael Jordan just not having the skills to make his first high school team, etc.  7th and 8th grade basketball teams should have the largest rosters in the basketball program.  The cream will rise to the top.  Maybe your child, who may or may not have what it takes, I don't know, needs this mental toughness challenge as well.  Hang in there.  These things work themselves out.

[BB Junkie]

Not my kid complaining. Gets on the line like a boss, but your missing the big picture. Do you not remember having to earn a jersey, not just filling one because they had that many, or were you the kid that got the participation award.

[Nip/Tusk]

I see both sides to this.

1. It is somewhat difficult to determine how valuable someone will potentially be 5 years down the road on the court.
2. It also seems to somewhat diminish the accomplishment of earning a spot on the team if everyone knows they will get a jersey and get playing time regardless.

Overall, it is extremely important that the parents of these kids (even the better ones) get behind the coach and show their support. It can do a ton of good (or bad) to the program for the players to see their parents supporting or not supporting the coach.

[BB Junkie]

Finally someone understands what I'm describing, and the bigger picture of competition going down and less people coming to watch the game. It's a self-defeating cycle, and the coaches have got to realize this! turn around and look at your stands there empty in most cases.

[Nip/Tusk]

It is critical that you don't allow your personal opinions to negatively influence your child or any of the others. That can be a cancer to the coach and his program.

If you vehemently disagree with him, which I think it's clear you do, I suggest what the others have. Calmly have a meeting with the coach and express your concerns. He probably won't change his philosophy, but you will have a chance to voice your concerns. He will also have a chance to explain his philosophy on the whole deal. If you still aren't satisfied, meet with the a.d.

[BB Junkie]

lol, that sounds all good and well but your post  reminds me of a movie scene in the 10 commandments. Remember when Moses climbs the mountain to meet God, yeah that's the one!!

[Nip/Tusk]

What school is this you're referring to?

[BB Junkie]

Sorry, too many repercussions to put a school name on here.

[arthurhawgerelli]

It is critical that you don't allow your personal opinions to negatively influence your child or any of the others. That can be a cancer to the coach and his program.

If you vehemently disagree with him, which I think it's clear you do, I suggest what the others have. Calmly have a meeting with the coach and express your concerns. He probably won't change his philosophy, but you will have a chance to voice your concerns. He will also have a chance to explain his philosophy on the whole deal. If you still aren't satisfied, meet with the a.d.

Here's the answer you've missed.  High School is when the cutting or earning of a jersey takes place.  7th and 8th grade are too soon.  I've seen tons of jr. high sensations (boys who were shaving in 7th grade) be mediocre, or leave the program before they are seniors.  Be patient, dad.  Do you remember the jr. high and middle school games you played, or the sr. high games?  Seen it probably just as much with girls.

[Nip/Tusk]

Me??

[BB Junkie]

So you think 30+ kids is acceptable on a 8 & 9 grade Jr team. I personally think that's a joke!!

[Brian G]

Dressing and playing are two different things. 

[HorseFeathers]

So you think 30+ kids is acceptable on a 8 & 9 grade Jr team. I personally think that's a joke!!

Should probably look at fielding an 8th grade team and a 9th grade team....heck we did something like that at a 2A school when I was in Jr High, and we dressed out 20...all of us had our strengths and weaknesses...

[hillbilly]

So you think 30+ kids is acceptable on a 8 & 9 grade Jr team. I personally think that's a joke!!

I bet you coached them in little league, didn't you? My advice would be for you to go back to college and get your coaching certification.

[DogsWin7]

I'm not sticking up for another coach, I tend to stick up for what is right.  I'm talking about how you should treat other humans in general, coaching aside.  If you have a problem with what someone is doing (boss, employee, spouse, child, friend, student, player, coach), go talk to them.  Usually that is the best way to resolve conflict.

+1

[The_Devil_Himself]

Someone is obviously fishing for a coach to agree with their perspective.

[commonsense01]

BB JUNKIE discusses that there would be too many repercussions to putting the school name on the forum, however what he forgets to realize is that he is not the only person in our small lake town to read the forums on Fearless Friday, so it is obvious to MANY people which school and coach you are referring to as well as the fact that it is plainly obvious as to who YOU are.  I have known this coach for many years, have watched him take a struggling Jr. High team and transform them into a team worthy of the state tournament.  BB JUNKIE you also forget that this coach decides whether your child is going to play or sit the bench, and since it is obvious as to who YOU are, it is also obvious as to who your child is.  And that is the sad part, you are hurting your child! You may think that you are sticking up for what is right, but you are not the person with the coaching degree or employment at the school. When you obtain those certificates, that employment, or that right...then you can blast whomever you want on these public forums.  You have no idea about the repercussions that lie ahead. If I were a parent of one of the "bad players" then I would be furious with you.

[Hopeful]

Wow!!! This guy is blowing my mind. Out of all the things to complain about in this world he wants to take shots at his kids basketball coach for not making cuts in the seventh or eighth grade. The truth is who knows how many of these kids will actually get to dress out or even get a uniform. Who knows if the numbers he is claiming are even correct. He states his kid is handling it like a "boss", if so what are you complaining about? If you love basketball what's wrong with your 7th grade or jr. High team fielding that many kids that want to be apart of the game? Some schools barely have enough kids playing to have a practice. Sounds like the coach did a good job if that many kids still want to be part of the game. Anyone from the area knows what a great job He does! Lots of conference championships, regional championships and state tournament games. Last years sr. High team, which is coached by the same guy.....won conference, went to regionals and state. They also lost a key starter in pre-season but still managed to have great success. Oh but none of that matters because I think when they were in the seventh grade they only won 2 games. Sorry sir but you are wrong 7th grade bball is about learning the game, learning about team, and it is there for the kids!! I love this game and like and support anybody that wants to share that love. I wonder if the school should cut or get rid of "bad" fans!

[TSW]

Not my kid complaining. Gets on the line like a boss, but your missing the big picture. Do you not remember having to earn a jersey, not just filling one because they had that many, or were you the kid that got the participation award.

NO you don't get the big picture, Its 7th Grade . Quit be a dad wanting his kid to be a superstar. No I don't think every kid should get playing time in a game either. But being part of a TEAM is just a big deal to some kids as it is for yours to start and score ( or maybe for you in this case ).

[DogsWin7]

Student or player??

[Jacketman65]

BB JUNKIE discusses that there would be too many repercussions to putting the school name on the forum, however what he forgets to realize is that he is not the only person in our small lake town to read the forums on Fearless Friday, so it is obvious to MANY people which school and coach you are referring to as well as the fact that it is plainly obvious as to who YOU are.  I have known this coach for many years, have watched him take a struggling Jr. High team and transform them into a team worthy of the state tournament.  BB JUNKIE you also forget that this coach decides whether your child is going to play or sit the bench, and since it is obvious as to who YOU are, it is also obvious as to who your child is.  And that is the sad part, you are hurting your child! You may think that you are sticking up for what is right, but you are not the person with the coaching degree or employment at the school. When you obtain those certificates, that employment, or that right...then you can blast whomever you want on these public forums.  You have no idea about the repercussions that lie ahead. If I were a parent of one of the "bad players" then I would be furious with you.

Well said!

[BB Junkie]

Just a quick note, I stated that my discription of the children was incorrect and it was a poor choice of words, that the kids weren't bad players! They just didn't have anyone putting in extra time with them. My kid is no superstar and I never wanted them to be! As far as hurting my child, the coach will have no bearing on them! If you really think you know me then you also know I have paid for other kids lessons, worked to help any child that ask, brought coaches in to work with kids, and would help anyone who needed it. I have been told by numerous connected people in the community how much they appreciate what I do for the kids. So when you step up and participate with you sweat and dollars then and only then will you will have a little room to talk.

[Basketballfan13]

Just a quick note, I stated that my discription of the children was incorrect and it was a poor choice of words, that the kids weren't bad players! They just didn't have anyone putting in extra time with them. My kid is no superstar and I never wanted them to be! As far as hurting my child, the coach will have no bearing on them! If you really think you know me then you also know I have paid for other kids lessons, worked to help any child that ask, brought coaches in to work with kids, and would help anyone who needed it. I have been told by numerous connected people in the community how much they appreciate what I do for the kids. So when you step up and participate with you sweat and dollars then and only then will you will have a little room to talk.

Just to clear this up, people should praise you for the amount of time and effort you are willing to put out to help ANY player that is in need and wanting to get better...but you want us to agree with you and criticize a coach for not cutting weak players and working with them all I'm not very good at reading...I'm sure I missed something on this topic...

[Brian G]

This is going well.

[BB Junkie]

No the question was, should you separate the group?  If not, do you run kids in the ground who work their butts off if you not willing to cut weaker players who can't make a layup?? It's really a simple question.

[Basketballfan13]

No the question was, should you separate the group?  If not, do you run kids in the ground who work their butts off if you not willing to cut weaker players who can't make a layup?? It's really a simple question.

If it is a simple question then give us the simple answer? Or better yet, don't ask questions that you feel are so simple because if they are that simple you obviously don't need the answer. Just start by saying this..."I am a parent that would like to disagree with what my son/daughter's coach does, but I feel the need to post it on a public forum and get other people to agree with me to feel like my opinion is the right one" or instead you can teach your kid and other parents to be good leaders and support your schools program no matter what. My dad would have beat my butt if I ever came home complaining about something my coach was doing or didn't do.

[DogsWin7]

No the question was, should you separate the group?  If not, do you run kids in the ground who work their butts off if you not willing to cut weaker players who can't make a layup?? It's really a simple question.

No, you are only wanting someone to chime in and agree with your position....has that happened yet??  No.

[BB Junkie]

I'm not asking anyone to agree, just answer the question? Separate the group, punished the group, or cut some? And for the record, I would give anything if there were 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th grade teams, it would be so much better for the overall program and for the kids to play every year instead of riding the bench.

[btownbomber]

I'm not asking anyone to agree, just answer the question? Separate the group, punished the group, or cut some? And for the record, I would give anything if there were 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th grade teams, it would be so much better for the overall program and for the kids to play every year instead of riding the bench.

I personally think you should shut up and let the coach(who seems to be fairly successful) do his job!

[Batman44]

BB Junkie, I have not followed this closely, but if I understand what you are trying to say, I tend to agree with you. Don't see how a coach can be effective, and do justice to the starting five, by trying to coach 25 plus players. Get your best 10-12 players and let someone else develop/ teach/coach the others.

[Batman44]

And, Coach DePriest, did you ever try, or have, to coach 25-30 kids at one time? Just askin. If so, how did you handle it?

[commonsense01]

Here is a better idea for you, rather than posting on here or Facebook about your displeasure with the coach or his decisions during a game...pick up the phone and make an appointment face to face to discuss your concerns with him or the AD, because I know for a fact they are ready to express a few words of their own...plus, that would be the grown up/adult thing to do.  And if you still aren't satisfied with the outcome, as you are walking out of the gym remember to look at all the banners...I pray for you and your family.

[Batman44]

I don't have a dog in this hunt. It's just that I don't see how a coach can effectively coach 25-30 players all at once. And, if that is the situation during a real game, and a coach is running in 5 different teams during a game, why even keep score. To me, it's the same philosophy as not keeping and giving grades during class.

[Batman44]

Change of mind. After reading previous quotes from others, I think I misunderstood the situation being discussed. If it applies to 7th graders only, I have no problem with that many players. After that, it gets a little dicey.

[BB Junkie]

No Batman, 25+ this year on 8th and 9th.

[Batman44]

BB, I'm not trying to stir the pot, and while this may not be the proper venue to address the issue, I can definitely see your point. Since I don't know you, or the school, what is the situation when they become 10th graders?