coach salaries

[unblockable1]

Big article in Demo Gazette  on coaching salaries. any thoughts?

[johnharrison]

I think taking $90,000 out of the teacher's salary pool and giving it to someone who doesn't teach a single class is outrageous.

It isn't that football doesn't have value, but it isn't where tax money should go when the school has 23% of its students that can't pass a literacy test. 

Maybe 2 more reading teachers..............?

[Iknewthemwhen]

You realize that for many schools football, and athletics is the most visiable part of the schools day, and it ties the school together.  I know your point is that coaches make too much, but are the teachers put on display the way the coaches and the athletic teams are?   Are many thousands of fans come out to watch the debate team?   Also many programs do make money to help pay the expenses of the salaries used for coaching.

[wawa111]

Add up the hours that coaches put in and regular teachers put in.  I think that some of the salaries are really up there, and kind of outrageous, but to put an article in the paper calling out coaches is ridiculous.

the quote "i don't by that. I don't buy that football keeps anymore kids off the street, then band or debate teams would..." shows how smart this IDIOT is.

He is what is wrong with schools today. People have ideas that make no sense. He has probably never spent one day in a school, or with a team. He is just listening to some parents moron and moan about the band not getting the money they should, and the FOOTBALL team gets everything.

Whens the last time you have seen bleachers full for band competition, or a debate match. NEVER. Football may use money from the schools, but it also brings attention to the schools, and brings money in.

The guys in this article are morons, complete morons. The DEM GAZ are idiots for running the article, especially on the front page. They don't mind using those football teams to sell papers.

I would like to see them do a study on how much money School districts spend each year on administrators pay, confrences, vehicles,  cell phones, gas cards, etc. That would be something to look at, but you can bet they will never do that.

[30kfeet]

..

[30kfeet]

Schools will have what patrons demand.  School boards are elected and reflect the will of those who vote for them and support them.  You want change?  Start there.

[johnharrison]

Well they will have what state law requires or they will be shut down.  If you can't afford both the basics and the athletics you are going to have a problem.

[Throwback1]

Football programs via gate receipts, etc., make a ton of money for high schools.  And the total hours are crazy.  The pay is what the market will bear.  Relax.

[30kfeet]

Football programs via gate receipts, etc., make a ton of money for high schools.  And the total hours are crazy.  The pay is what the market will bear.  Relax.

Football programs at some smaller districts operate at a deficit.

[johnharrison]

Find me one football program that can use gate receipts to pay coaches salaries, stadium construction, field upkeep, utilities, equipment, insurance, field house, travel and refs. 

If you read the article in the paper, it would be apparent that gate receipts ARE NOT used to pay coaches.  Tax dollars are.

[Throwback1]

Find me one football program that can use gate receipts to pay coaches salaries, stadium construction, field upkeep, utilities, equipment, insurance, field house, travel and refs. 

If you read the article in the paper, it would be apparent that gate receipts ARE NOT used to pay coaches.  Tax dollars are.

many schools make thousands of dollars more than the football programs costs that go back into the schools general fund

[johnharrison]

Yeah, and some people "always win at Oaklawn"


There MAY be half a dozen schools in Arkansas that can cover half of their football related expenses.  If strict allocation of cost is followed, NO school generates a surplus from gate receipts.

[Throwback1]

whatever..nonissue to me, anyway

[Iknewthemwhen]

If you want to cut out the programs you had better take a look at band programs and the money that goes into that as well.  Some band directors make pretty good money, more than some football caoches, and the cost of uniforms and instruments must be pretty high.  I know not every kid owns their own.

[Iknewthemwhen]

Then you have agri-programs where kids are out of school a lot and the pay that agri teachers receive.   While we are at it, what about basketball caoches, how are they making out these days?

[johnharrison]

Guys, it's not football versus basketball versus band.

It is academics versus extracurricular.

If a school doesn't have the money to do both and choose to shift money to the athletics they are going to find themselves taken over by the state, closed, or consolidated. 

Remember that when they ask for a tax increase.

[wawa111]

Take athletics out of a school, you might as well shut it down. All of the people who see through ROSE COLORED GLASSES, need to wake up! With out athletics, there is no school pride. How many times do you see schools putting up banners for ACTAAP. Maybe they should, but it isn't going to happen. How many times are people going to show up to see if their ACTAAP scores are higher than their rivals. NEVER. If we think our schools are bad now, just wait. Let these idiots do what they want and you might as well have old west shoot outs at lunch everyday. Athletics keeps kids out of trouble. It keeps them off the street, and you can have all the debate teams you want, they aren't going join them. People don't even pay that much attention to presidential debates, what makes you think they would care about 2 high schoolers talking about school lunches.

Idiots like those in the paper today, should be taken out back and whipped until they admit to how ignorant they are.

[30kfeet]

If you want to cut out the programs you had better take a look at band programs and the money that goes into that as well.  Some band directors make pretty good money, more than some football caoches, and the cost of uniforms and instruments must be pretty high.  I know not every kid owns their own.

Band directors don't have off-season and work just as many hours as coaches with smaller stipends.  Concert and contest seasons take just as much energy if not more than marching season.   Most bands I've been associated with have had to raise money for uniforms and instruments through never-ending fund raisers.  The band parents organizations work extremely hard to make sure the program has what it needs to be successful.   If you are suggestiong cutting band programs, think twice.  Numerous studies have concluded that kids involved in music do better in other subjects than non-music students.  Virtually no injuries. Vastly more opportunity to participate.  Many more scholarships given than athletics, too.   Music programs have too often been the first place districts look to cut when funding is an issue.  IMHO.

[Iknewthemwhen]

More scholarships?  Really? How many full rides does a DI school give out in band.  I really have no idea?  Are you sure that with all the sports out there that band gets more? 

[30kfeet]

More scholarships?  Really? How many full rides does a DI school give out in band.  I really have no idea?  Are you sure that with all the sports out there that band gets more? 

Didn't say full rides, and D1 is not the gold standard here.  While DIII schools do not give out athletic scholarships they do offer music scholarships.  Ironically, the large football schools such as with SEC give out a ton of partials to kids to get them in their marching bands.  Some number 200 or more.

[johnharrison]

NCAA limits the number of scholarships in each sport.  For example I think men's soccer gets 7 - total.  They often get split being one of more athletes.  In sports other than football, there is often an effort to move athletes with good academics to academic schlorship.  Band gets a ton.

[bmiller]

There are several schools that offer band scholarships and are limited to the number offered just like athletics.  Scholarships are offered for a wike variety of  reasons.  Some are partial and some are fulls. 

Coaches do more than coach.  If athletics were to becom extinct, you would lose alot of students to dropping out or expelled for discipline reasons.  Coaches help with discipline and in alot of cases athletics are the only thing keeping some kids out of a lot of trouble. 

As for salaries, I dont think you can put a uniform salary across the board.  It will depend on what the citizens in that community are willing to pay in millages.

[Iknewthemwhen]

My point was this, athletics provides lots of scholarship money.  Every level gives scholarships to athletes, even DIII, althought they call them grants or fellowships or whatever.  They are giving the money because the kid is an athlete.  I would bet that in the long run athletes get more money than band kids, but I'm just quessing.   All are a good thing.   Lower divisions split their scholarship money for athletes as well, usually at least down to halfs and many to less.  They also bring in athletes on their academic money.  So athletics is getting them to the school.

[johnharrison]

So athletics is getting them to the school.

The DIII schools with which I am most familar include Rhodes, Hendrix, Sewanee, and Centre.  I don't mean to be argumentative, but I don't think you see a handful of kids every 5 years who are there because of athletics.

Most students are there because they busted a gut during HS, made good grades and had lots of choices.  A good handful of the kids who get in and didn't enroll is because the ACADEMIC scholarship they were offered wasn't generous enough, maybe they were offered the Dean's Scholarship at $7500/yr and were need they President's at $12,000/.  The "athletic" grants were 10 - 15% of that amount.

I do allow that if you are a very borderline candidate at a competitive DIII school, but you have a great arm or can run, there is a chance that the coach will ask the admissions committee to take a second look at your application.

[QPWFB]

Guys, it's not football versus basketball versus band.

It is academics versus extracurricular.

If a school doesn't have the money to do both and choose to shift money to the athletics they are going to find themselves taken over by the state, closed, or consolidated. 

Remember that when they ask for a tax increase.

Thats right these schools need a miliage increase to fund the mandates from the state and keep their sports programs alive, it takes both to keep a school district healthy.

[Peety]

Ben Mays of Clinton must be one sad, pathetic man.  He likes to start trouble and stir the pot get a life Mr. Mays!!

[doesitreallymatter]

Count the number of hours a head football coach puts in compared to a classroom teacher. The head coach probably makes less per hour.

[Iknewthemwhen]

Did the article show the salaries of all head coaches in Arkansas?

[30kfeet]

Count the number of hours a head football coach puts in compared to a classroom teacher. The head coach probably makes less per hour.

Count the number of Master's and other advanced degrees in their teaching field among classroom teachers compared to coaches.  Rewards for them are meager compared to many coaching stipends.

[footballguy]

Count the number of hours a head football coach puts in compared to a classroom teacher. The head coach probably makes less per hour.

Count the number of Master's and other advanced degrees in their teaching field among classroom teachers compared to coaches.  Rewards for them are meager compared to many coaching stipends.

I agree that SOME teachers deserve a raise. But, just because a teacher has a MASTERs degree doesn't mean they deserve a raise. I have kids that come home at night with tons of homework that they can't do by themselves. It is left up to the parents to teach them how to do it. Or an older brother or sister. If my child doesn't know how to do his work then someone isn't doing their job right. My kids don't cause trouble and they listen in class. I know this because I go to all the parent teacher conference's and the teachers tell me this. I sub at school as well. So, just because you hold the title of TEACHER doesn't mean you deserve a raise. It should be based on job performance not just because.

[Iknewthemwhen]

You are right and wrong.  In general teacher pay is sub-par.  Arkansas ranks low among the nations educators in pay.  "You get what you pay for" ring any bells?   Sure some teachers could be doing a better job, but I find most teachers try hard and work to improve, regardless of their low pay among college educated professionals.    It's that old, we want something for nothing syndrome among the folks in the school district.   

[unblockable1]

Latest report ranks Ar. teacher pay 30th  at an average of 41,000. a year ( 190 days)

[QPWFB]

Not to be cruel about the whole teacher pay issue but, did they not realize what the job paid before they chose the profession? When I took my job I agreed to work for the pay they offered! I didn't take the job and then complain all the time because I am under paid, and I don't tell my boss that its not fair because people in Ohio do the same job as me and get paid more, he would probably tell me to move to Ohio! I try to worry about myself and the deal that I agreed too, When and if I become unhappy I will change jobs or professions!

[QPWFB]

Seems like we have about 12 - 15 head football coaches who's salary seems to be out of whack with everyone else's,
and now people are using this info to bash all coaches and the sport of football in general. The reason I say this is because only football coaches had there pay scale listed in the paper. Now if Argue and Mays have a problem with the amount of money they are paying these guys then maybe they should deal with those schools. I'll bet if more research was compiled some of those same schools spend way too much money on facilities. Most small schools have basic or meager facilities for football, and there coaches salarys are in line with the pay scale for that school ! So lets not lump all coaches and programs into the same basket! I know the rewards are greater than the investment in our case , and I'm sure that holds true for others as well.

[Peety]

Yes, every head football coach in the state was listed with salary.  They don't realize most head coaches are also athletic directors, principals, bus drivers.  If you were to pay coaches by the hour it would be less than minimum wage!!
The teachers I know are very hard working and dedicated professonals, this isn't about teachers vs. coaches.  Teachers deserve more pay, they didn't go into teaching to get rich.

[lh89]

Some teachers and alot of coaches are the only positive roll in some of these kids lifes.You ask alot of kids that have went to college and they will tell you there was one teacher or coach that made a big change in their life. This is worth everything. I do not believe any of them are over paid. I do believe some are under paid and do not get the credit they deserve.

[HA_Fan]

If you were to pay coaches by the hour it would be less than minimum wage!!

You can't honestly believe that about head coaches.

[unblockable1]

Why don't they list all the principal's and superintendent salaries. Now there's a WASTE

[Throwback1]

The latter were all printed during Huck's consolidation war.

[unblockable1]

But most have recieved several raise's since Hucks days!

[edghog]

Does anyone have a link to the article

[HA_Fan]

Why don't they list all the principal's and superintendent salaries. Now there's a WASTE

Because it's an article about coaching salaries.

All of those are available online though.  You're right, some of them are shocking.

[unblockable1]

Don't forget about all the assistant principal's and assistant superintendent's.  And that the legislature was the one's that said we needed all of them.

[HA_Fan]

By the way, this is the link to the info if anyone missed it.

http://www2.arkansasonline.com/extra/databases/coachsalaries/

[Peety]

Minimun wage, yes, most coaching stipends are between $3000 to $5000.  You take that and divide it into the hours that head coaches work and it is next to nothing.  Then take the gas money that they use to take kids back and forth to practice.  Personal money spent on buying kids meals because they won't let them go hungry, letterman jackets so they can have one like everyone else, paying for them to go to fb camp.   I could go on and on....

[Iknewthemwhen]

Oh, I thought the boosters took care of all that stuff.

[HA_Fan]

Minimun wage, yes, most coaching stipends are between $3000 to $5000. 

We're not talking about the stipends.  We're talking about the totals.  It doesn't matter if your stipend is only $4000, when your base salary is $70,000.

[QPWFB]

H.A , $70.000 base salary would only be for a small percentage of coaches. I would think the average base salary would be around $50,000. That's still higher than the average teacher base salary. But coaches are expected to put in a lot more hours, just the nature of the business.

[HA_Fan]

H.A , $70.000 base salary would only be for a small percentage of coaches. I would think the average base salary would be around $50,000. That's still higher than the average teacher base salary. But coaches are expected to put in a lot more hours, just the nature of the business.

The hours argument is pointless.  Teachers put in plenty of hours outside the classroom too.  Those papers don't grade themselves.

I think the better argument is the field they are in.  This is no different that the disparity between the salaries of college professors and head coaches at the D-I level.  Although they are working for the same entity, their salary comparison is not with the teacher down the hall.  It's with the coach across the state or in the next state.  As long as there are guys on the list making $70,000+, head football coaches will make more than English teachers.

There are good arguments on both sides of this one.  We just don't seem to hear too many of them.

[Anon2]

The Principals and Asst. Principals do a little more than most think.  The one I know gets to school at 7:00 and leaves at 5:00.  That's year round except for holidays and 2 weeks off during the summer.  Either the P or AP must attend the 7th and 8th grade football and basketball games at home and on the road.  That's putting in quite a bit of time.