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Would Kevin Kelly win at any Classifaction besides in Little Rock ?

Started by chaingang, November 25, 2018, 09:57:44 pm

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chaingang

I have wondered this for some time now. Could he win in Batesville , Camden Fairview , Hope, Wynne, Blytheville and so on.....could he go to any smaller town and run his system and have the same success  ?

PA Dad

Absolutely not.  He is suited only for P.A.  He would be a failure at any other school.

JacketFan

Quote from: PA Dad on November 25, 2018, 10:02:13 pm
Absolutely not.  He is suited only for P.A.  He would be a failure at any other school.
;D ;D ;D ;D. Boy that was quick PA Dad

PA Dad


incogneto


MDXPHD

Ehh. I just know he'd repeatedly beat LRC by 30+ wherever he ended up.

tmycjy

In my opinion I think he would win at those school it might take a some years to get his system down but I think he would win but who knows for sure

PA Dad

Quote from: PA Dad on November 25, 2018, 10:02:13 pm
Absolutely not.  He is suited only for P.A.  He would be a failure at any other school.

I was obviously being sarcastic maybe because this question has been posed on this board several times.

Kelley is in an ideal situation.  He is athletic director as well as head coach so he has absolute control.  He starts the kids in his system in the 5th grade.  He has highly motivated kids who have the advantage of parents who will send players to summer camps.  He has players who are generally intelligent.  And he has players who believe absolutely in his system.

But he is also an astute student of the game.  It might take him a couple of years but he would be successful at any school.  But I doubt that he could match what he has done at PA because I doubt that he could find a school that gives him the advantages he has at P.A.

But, he is the major reason for PA's success.

JacketFan

Not to mention, public schools could not pay what he is making at PA, he would be a fool to ever leave that gravy train he has at PA.  If he did leave, like you said, with a few years, he could have that system possibly working at another school.  He is agressive coach, and can scheme the heck out of you with his mid game adjustments.  With his success, I am sure PA would let him name his pay, and they would probably pay it just so they wouldn't lose him.

Sasquatch71

Win?  Absolutely.  Would he have the machine he has at PA?  No.  It just doesn't happen in public schools.  You get what you get in public schools.  Not talking athlete wise, I am talking student wise.  Coaching kids that have 504 plans is completely different than coaching kids, as it was said in a reply to one of my previous post, who take SATs and all AP classes.  Again this is just the way it is.  But Kelley would definitely win anywhere he went but it would most likely not be 5 titles in a row kinda winning.

Central AR

Could he repeat this success at PA somewhere else? Ehhh maybe but I couldn't imagine the success he could have at Cabot, who happens to have an opening coming up. Those hallways have a lot of athleticism that aren't playing football right now. His defense would definitely improve, mainly because of having more depth, but from an X's and O's standpoint, I don't think anyone is on his level in this state. He understands his personel and evaluates the heck out of his players. Imagine if he had 175+ kids wanting to play under him and the move-ins Cabot would have. So, yes I think he can win big anywhere, given time to incorporate his philosophy.

beaverfan007


youhavenoidea

Quote from: beaverfan007 on November 26, 2018, 09:39:29 am
Can't recruit like he does in a public school  ;D
Sure you can!...You just have to make sure the AAA is taken care of.

game on

Kelly is obviously a very good coach but as was pointed out, the advantages he has at PA can probably not be matched.  Dealing with students with much more difficult home situations and other committments would cause some problems.  Kids working, kids with those 504's, kids that are more of a discipline problem, parents that are less supportive.  All this would have an effect.. Win certainly but I don't think you would see 5 in a row.  That rare group that comes through and wins 2 or 3 is rare in the public school.

Pr8hd

Absolutely, I've said for a long time, if/when CRJ retires at GW...they better try to lure KK. His system def would work here, IMHO. He's a proven winner with a great system. GW has shown that a great coach/system can be a consistent powerhouse and contend with any 6A and most  7A teams. 

Red Devil Alum

Quote from: Pr8hd on November 26, 2018, 02:24:26 pm
Absolutely, I've said for a long time, if/when CRJ retires at GW...they better try to lure KK. His system def would work here, IMHO. He's a proven winner with a great system. GW has shown that a great coach/system can be a consistent powerhouse and contend with any 6A and most  7A teams.
GW is not a better job than PA, so why make a lateral move?

Pr8hd

Quote from: Red Devil Alum on November 26, 2018, 02:28:11 pm
GW is not a better job than PA, so why make a lateral move?

Watch and see, I guess. You are entitled to your opinion....

However, GW will have a ton of well known coaches in multiple classifications higher & lower/multiple states apply for the job when it comes open again. 

Red Devil Alum

Quote from: Pr8hd on November 26, 2018, 02:34:54 pm
Watch and see, I guess. You are entitled to your opinion....

However, GW will have a ton of well known coaches in multiple classifications higher & lower/multiple states apply for the job when it comes open again.
I think it's a great job in Arkansas, just doesn't seem to be a step up from PA.

Red Devil Alum

It does raise an interesting question - what are the top 5 HS coaching jobs in Arkansas?

I'll say Fayetteville, NLR, Bryant, PA and Greenwood.

Pr8hd

Quote from: Red Devil Alum on November 26, 2018, 02:45:19 pm
I think it's a great job in Arkansas, just doesn't seem to be a step up from PA.

Not saying he would leave PA for anyone, but if he left PA, you have to ask yourself, would PA draw the same amount of interest as say other top programs in the state ?  PA's success has as much to do with Kelly's system based on analytics and his approach to the game. Most coaches are not going to continue that system if they replaced him there, so one would question if they could/would maintain the same level of success outside a KK system.  Kids have a lot of choices in LR area maybe those same kids would then go to LRCA or another. I am sure academics are top notch there, but they are pretty good at some other schools too and you don't have to pay tuition.

GW has shown to be successful if a quality coach is there. After all, they make their 13th title game appearance since 1996 this Saturday. This is why Barry Lunney recommended Jones to GW and he himself considered going back there when he left Southside for Bentonville.


Red Devil Alum

Quote from: Pr8hd on November 26, 2018, 03:05:07 pm
Not saying he would leave PA for anyone, but if he left PA, you have to ask yourself, would PA draw the same amount of interest as say other top programs in the state ?  PA's success has as much to do with Kelly's system based on analytics and his approach to the game. Most coaches are not going to continue that system if they replaced him there, so one would question if they could/would maintain the same level of success outside a KK system.  Kids have a lot of choices in LR area maybe those same kids would then go to LRCA or another.

GW has shown to be successful if a quality coach is there. After all, they make their 13th title game appearance since 1996 this Saturday. This is why Barry Lunney recommended Jones to GW and he himself considered going back there when he left Southside for Bentonville.
I'm not sure, it's a good question. From what I've read on this website, all the coach of PA has to do is show up at 7 p.m. on Friday night and they have such inherent advantages that a win is virtually guaranteed.

Central AR

Quote from: game on on November 26, 2018, 01:15:59 pm
Kelly is obviously a very good coach but as was pointed out, the advantages he has at PA can probably not be matched.  Dealing with students with much more difficult home situations and other committments would cause some problems.  Kids working, kids with those 504's, kids that are more of a discipline problem, parents that are less supportive.  All this would have an effect.. Win certainly but I don't think you would see 5 in a row.  That rare group that comes through and wins 2 or 3 is rare in the public school.

You don't think students at private schools have 504 plans?. There is many students with 504 plans or IEPs who need accommodations and modifications daily integrated in lesson plans in private and public schools. Also, I know many D1 athletes who have needed extra help along the way, academically. Also, a 504 can simply mean a student needs to sit closer to the board. Something as little as that will have zero impact on football.

Red Devil Alum

Quote from: Central AR on November 26, 2018, 03:12:15 pm
You don't think students at private schools have 504 plans?. There is many students with 504 plans or IEPs who need accommodations and modifications daily integrated in lesson plans in private and public schools. Also, I know many D1 athletes who have needed extra help along the way, academically. Also, a 504 can simply mean a student needs to sit closer to the board. Something as little as that will have zero impact on football.
While technically true, and adding that the talk that everyone at PA is "rich" is way overblown, it can't be denied that as a general rule the players at PA/LRCA (and others) don't have as many challenges related to food/health/jobs that some other schools in Arkansas deal with.

Central AR

Quote from: Red Devil Alum on November 26, 2018, 03:34:53 pm
While technically true, and adding that the talk that everyone at PA is "rich" is way overblown, it can't be denied that as a general rule the players at PA/LRCA (and others) don't have as many challenges related to food/health/jobs that some other schools in Arkansas deal with.

I didn't even mention food, health, or jobs. Someone with a tad more experience about this than 99% of folks on here can say you be surprised how many private school students have an actual 504 plan. Again, this just goes back to my original quote. But you're dead on. It's way overblown. Most families still live paycheck to paycheck regardless of where your child attends school.

$aintMaximu$

Quote from: beaverfan007 on November 26, 2018, 09:39:29 am
Can't recruit like he does in a public school  ;D


Actually it would be easier... As long as they transfer within the specified time they don't sit out and they don't have to pay to go to school...

PA Dad

Quote from: Pr8hd on November 26, 2018, 03:05:07 pm
Not saying he would leave PA for anyone, but if he left PA, you have to ask yourself, would PA draw the same amount of interest as say other top programs in the state ?  PA's success has as much to do with Kelly's system based on analytics and his approach to the game. Most coaches are not going to continue that system if they replaced him there, so one would question if they could/would maintain the same level of success outside a KK system.  Kids have a lot of choices in LR area maybe those same kids would then go to LRCA or another. I am sure academics are top notch there, but they are pretty good at some other schools too and you don't have to pay tuition.

GW has shown to be successful if a quality coach is there. After all, they make their 13th title game appearance since 1996 this Saturday. This is why Barry Lunney recommended Jones to GW and he himself considered going back there when he left Southside for Bentonville.

If Kelley leaves PA, PA will be competitive but not dominant.  PA's dominance is due primarily to Kelley.

Pr8hd

Quote from: PA Dad on November 26, 2018, 03:59:09 pm
If Kelley leaves PA, PA will be competitive but not dominant.  PA's dominance is due primarily to Kelley.

I would expect PA to still be a good team, because they would still hire a good coach, but as stated they may not be as dominant as they are enjoying under KK. He would just be more traditional spread team likely with more conservative approach.

Depending on who GW hired, the same might could be said as well, but there are few other things in place here besides an outside the box approach to the game itself that has lent itself to be highly successful at PA. I am really surprised more have not tried that same approach on different levels given the level of success he has had. It's easier said to do than have the sack to do it I guess when a paycheck and job is on the line.   

STBruin

Quote from: PA Dad on November 25, 2018, 10:02:13 pm
Absolutely not.  He is suited only for P.A.  He would be a failure at any other school.

HAHA....I would really like to see him try his luck at Cabot, put all his mystique to the test.

STBruin


beach bum

Quote from: $aintMaximu$ on November 26, 2018, 03:51:16 pm

Actually it would be easier... As long as they transfer within the specified time they don't sit out and they don't have to pay to go to school...


Exactly... Its actually easier for public schools now to get players to move to their school after the AAA changed the private school transfer rules.  Just look at the Harber/Springdale deal last offseason to see how easy it is to change public schools.

Central AR

Quote from: beach bum on November 26, 2018, 04:40:29 pm

Exactly... Its actually easier for public schools now to get players to move to their school after the AAA changed the private school transfer rules.  Just look at the Harber/Springdale deal last offseason to see how easy it is to change public schools.

Don't say that. Those kind of facts will make fans of public schools even more jealous when they don't compete.

sevenof400

Hold on a minute here:

Quote from: beach bum on November 26, 2018, 04:40:29 pm

Exactly... Its actually easier for public schools now to get players to move to their school after the AAA changed the private school transfer rules.  Just look at the Harber/Springdale deal last offseason to see how easy it is to change public schools.

As I understood the Harber / Springdale situation, players there were taking advantage of existing rules (rules that had been in place for quite some time) within the Springdale school district to transfer.  It's not like a rule was created to specifically allow for these transfers was it?  How many other districts may have language within their codes of operation to allow something similar?  My point here is there may be many similar rules / procedures out there players could take advantage of and transfer within a district. I don't think this brick should be lobbed at AAA.   
   

JessieP

Quote from: beach bum on November 26, 2018, 04:40:29 pm

Exactly... Its actually easier for public schools now to get players to move to their school after the AAA changed the private school transfer rules.  Just look at the Harber/Springdale deal last offseason to see how easy it is to change public schools.

OMG, I actually laughed out loud. Stop please, my side hurts. I'll be getting a lot of mileage out of that one! AAA? Transfer rules? too funny. Hehehe, AAA, Rules...who writes this stuff? After a couple years here and having at least a dozen people posting copies of the "rules" there is only one absolute, there are no transfer/boundary rules in Arkansas athletics.


beach bum

Quote from: JessieP on November 26, 2018, 06:45:28 pm
OMG, I actually laughed out loud. Stop please, my side hurts. I'll be getting a lot of mileage out of that one! AAA? Transfer rules? too funny. Hehehe, AAA, Rules...who writes this stuff? After a couple years here and having at least a dozen people posting copies of the "rules" there is only one absolute, there are no transfer/boundary rules in Arkansas athletics.


So they're lying and when a kid transfers to a private school they don't have to sit out a year?  Is that what you are saying?

JessieP

Quote from: beach bum on November 26, 2018, 06:49:08 pm

So they're lying and when a kid transfers to a private school they don't have to sit out a year?  Is that what you are saying?

I was not directing that sarcasm at you, it was directed at the absurdity of the rules.

About 5 years ago there were 2 players on Batesville's team, I think they were cousins, very good players. After the season ended they had a falling out with the coach. They got angry and said if they didn't get their way they would transfer to Southside. After Christmas break they were enrolled at SS, one of them participated in a spring sport. They didn't sit out one day. They both played football 9 months later. Mind you Batesville is not a big place, if you argue with your wife on Monday it's county wide known on Thursday. These two players did not move, they used an address. It was no secret, no one made any effort to hide it. Another example, a kid who actually did live in SS school district but chose to play for Batesville. He was there grades 7-11. The summer before his Senior season he decided he wanted to transfer so he did and suited up 2 months later. Another kid grew up in SS, played basketball. He decided to transfer to PA for basketball (Go figure) his senior season, again no problem. This past year Blytheville self reported a paperwork error and the hammer came down. So you tell me why people smirk when someone references reference the transfer "rules".

Complete Biased PoV

Quote from: JessieP on November 26, 2018, 07:04:48 pm
I was not directing that sarcasm at you, it was directed at the absurdity of the rules.

About 5 years ago there were 2 players on Batesville's team, I think they were cousins, very good players. After the season ended they had a falling out with the coach. They got angry and said if they didn't get their way they would transfer to Southside. After Christmas break they were enrolled at SS, one of them participated in a spring sport. They didn't sit out one day. They both played football 9 months later. Mind you Batesville is not a big place, if you argue with your wife on Monday it's county wide known on Thursday. These two players did not move, they used an address. It was no secret, no one made any effort to hide it. Another example, a kid who actually did live in SS school district but chose to play for Batesville. He was there grades 7-11. The summer before his Senior season he decided he wanted to transfer so he did and suited up 2 months later. Another kid grew up in SS, played basketball. He decided to transfer to PA for basketball (Go figure) his senior season, again no problem. This past year Blytheville self reported a paperwork error and the hammer came down. So you tell me why people smirk when someone references reference the transfer "rules".

Pretty sure the SS basketball player didn't transfer to be a part of the PA dominance in boys basketball.  While they have been in possibly the toughest basketball conference in the state the last 4 years, they are an average high school team.  His family did move to Little Rock though.

JessieP

Quote from: Complete Biased PoV on November 26, 2018, 11:01:43 pm
Pretty sure the SS basketball player didn't transfer to be a part of the PA dominance in boys basketball.  While they have been in possibly the toughest basketball conference in the state the last 4 years, they are an average high school team.  His family did move to Little Rock though.
[/quote

That's why I added the "Go figure" comment. It was not a PA knock, it was more along the lines of "No no no, you go to PA to get a ring in football, FOOTBALL".

RazorDad

Quote from: Complete Biased PoV on November 26, 2018, 11:01:43 pm
Pretty sure the SS basketball player didn't transfer to be a part of the PA dominance in boys basketball.  While they have been in possibly the toughest basketball conference in the state the last 4 years, they are an average high school team.  His family did move to Little Rock though.

And you can get a transfer waiver if you can show that the move was required by a job change or other other bonafide reason. Transfer across the state - pretty much always waivered. Transfer across town - rarely waivered except for very-well documented and provable reasons, such as the death of parents or other extreme situations. Talking transfers to private schools.

JoeDirt

Quote from: Central AR on November 26, 2018, 03:12:15 pm
You don't think students at private schools have 504 plans?. There is many students with 504 plans or IEPs who need accommodations and modifications daily integrated in lesson plans in private and public schools. Also, I know many D1 athletes who have needed extra help along the way, academically. Also, a 504 can simply mean a student needs to sit closer to the board. Something as little as that will have zero impact on football.

A student having a 504 plan and a student having an IEP are two COMPLETELY different things my friend.

sevenof400

Quote from: JoeDirt on November 27, 2018, 09:44:58 am
A student having a 504 plan and a student having an IEP are two COMPLETELY different things my friend.

Different?  Yes.
Completely? No.
There is common ground between the two.

Red Devil Alum

I'll use post 40 of the thread to point out his name is "Kelley" and not Kelly.

JoeDirt

Quote from: sevenof400 on November 27, 2018, 10:12:26 am
Different?  Yes.
Completely? No.
There is common ground between the two.

If you only have a basic understanding of the two, I can see why you think they are similar.


Added link to help.

https://www.washington.edu/doit/what-difference-between-iep-and-504-plan

Central AR

Quote from: JoeDirt on November 27, 2018, 09:44:58 am
A student having a 504 plan and a student having an IEP are two COMPLETELY different things my friend.

I'll let you slide on this lol
Didn't say they were the same thing but they do share a common ground.

sevenof400

Quote from: JoeDirt on November 27, 2018, 10:36:55 am
If you only have a basic understanding of the two, I can see why you think they are similar.


Added link to help.

https://www.washington.edu/doit/what-difference-between-iep-and-504-plan

I have an every day understanding of these two and your link actually supports my point (the two are NOT mutually exclusive) but lets leave that issue aside for the moment and focus on why IEP and 504's enter this discussion.  The question posed touched on private schools and students with IEP's and / or 504 plans.  One fact we will both agree on is the cost to a district with respect to meeting the requirements of IEP's and 504 plans.  It can be immense AND it can change radically (in the middle of a school year) if even one child moves into the district and the needs of that child force the school to hire, rearrange or have to restructure their personnel.     

thebigshot

Send him to LR Mills and see how he will do. I'm sure he will struggle there.

game on

I never said private schools don't have 504 students.  I doubt the see the numbers that public schools do. Sitting closer to the board is a 504 request that is easy to deal with, so many of the others are not so easy. 

CatPride


Eddie Goodson

Quote from: thebigshot on November 27, 2018, 02:40:04 pm
Send him to LR Mills and see how he will do. I'm sure he will struggle there.
If he went there and started winning you sure would hear cries of recruiting since Mills University Studies is a Magnet School and can pull any kid it wants from within the PCSSD.

Eddie Goodson

Quote from: game on on November 28, 2018, 01:54:20 pm
I never said private schools don't have 504 students.  I doubt the see the numbers that public schools do. Sitting closer to the board is a 504 request that is easy to deal with, so many of the others are not so easy.
The private school "advantage" has nothing to do with IEPs or 504s. The "advantage" is that almost all the kids come from two parent homes and have a stable support structure to help the student succeed in academics and athletics. Same thread will generally hold true in perennially successful public schools. Building winning programs start in the home. Always has, always will.

Pr8hd

Quote from: CatPride on November 28, 2018, 02:18:49 pm
GW don't seem to have any problems in that area... ;D

Showing your lack of knowledge or jealousy, not sure which, but what do you expect from our Hwy 10 neighbors.

Take a look at the GW roster or better yet come see if they pass the genetic lottery eye test versus Benton. If GW is recruiting kids like our plethora of 5-10" lineman that weigh maybe 200-225 , then we need to have a serious discussion with the recruiting coordinator to step up his game and get some of the 6'2"- 6'4" variety others seem to be blessed with. 

Pretty much all of GW's QB's (who have been the main studs) have been GW kids whose parents also have GW ties where at least one was an alum. That includes Holt, Noland, Hales, Wilson, etc.  Add in our 5'10 lineman and you have one of the top recruiting classes, I guess.   ::)

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