• Welcome to Fearless Friday Bulletin Boards. Please login or sign up.

 FF is powered by:        Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Games not going 2 full quarters

Started by Brian G, September 22, 2018, 10:41:24 am

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Brian G

Per AAA rules, all conference games must go at least 2 full qtrs to count.  Last night, we had more than one game NOT go the required 2 quarters but yet they were called by agreement.

I'm not agreeing with that result.   The rule exist for a reason and even though we had extreme weather last night, the rule is there for that reason.  The fact you can circumvent it by agreement in conference just isn't right.

Some games were still in doubt.  Now a mercy rule situation at half, that's understandable.  But a 1-2 score game in the 2nd/3rd quarter should find a conclusion.  Props for those that stuck it out or found a solution to complete it.

That is my opinion.

B.G.

FF Secretary of Defense Flap_Jack48

Which games were "called" and which games are being completed today or Monday?  I wasn't sure which ones are considered final at this point.

I know Star City vs. Monticello was 20-6 and I thought was being finished today at 2pm.  That's the biggest one of interest for me as it's an 8-4A conference game and Star City is Warren's next opponent. 

Thanks!

-Kyle

Brian G

For instance, Hampton was up huge in middle of 2nd and I was told it didn't finish the half

Also, Bryant vs Northside was almost to the half and called it.

I think there are others. 

HorseFeathers

Wasn't Hampton up 47-6 when the game was called though?

And their Facebook page says it was halftime

Brian G

According to a poster, the game was "mid 2nd", had a delay and then they never restarted.

Either way, supposedly there is a 2 qtr min rule to be official.  However, I can't find the rule in the handbook but we've heard it for years and it was used by the AAA just 2 weeks ago.

I AGREE in the case of mercy rule situations, it's a bit different.  But with the tiebreaker rules, it's important a game is played "Officially".

If it's 2 qtrs, that didn't happen across the state last night.

Brian G

I'm not banging on the AAA here.

They can't control the weather or what went on at each game site.  But there are rules in place to finish suspended games written into the handbook.  Some schools are blowing that off in games that were still competitive and in some cases not even to halftime.

I just think that is not right.  Buckle up and finish it.

Heck, basketball teams spent a week holed up in hotels 2-3 years ago during the state tournament and some games were played on Sunday(with AAA permission).  The push should be on finishing games.

HorseFeathers

If I remember right that's cause a couple schools held the state hostage by not making pre weather travel plans like a few other schools from their area did cough*eureka springs*cough...

Anyway, if both schools administrations/coaches/a.d's agree to it...I don't have a problem with it, depending on logistics...

Brian G

It's more than a two team decision. 

This is why when I team plays some conference games and then forfeits rest of the season(like several fb teams recent years), it creates inequity.

All the teams that DIDNT play them, get 13 point wins.  But the ones they DID play, have that result.  That was why Rose Bud cancelling before conference got the 2 thumbs up from me.

Other sports get their games in....

HorseFeathers

Just want to make it clear...that I understand where you're coming from....it's basically why have a rule about what makes a game official if coaches can just agree to ignore it...


But Thats kind of two different arguments...

If (hypothetically) Bryant and Catholic agree to call a game Midway thru the 2nd Q and Bryant is up 12-0...what does that affect the rest of the conference? I mean if I'm a player from Catholic I'd be angry at my admin/coaches...

Now canceling a season after playing half the conference schedule isn't right....that's lost gate to the other schools, sucks for the kids involved on both sides due to a lost game....and in most cases the numbers issue was known well in advance... What's worse is when you have a school forfeit all their road games but play their home games like Marvell did a few years back...

Brian G

They are different arguments for sure but my point is this is correctable.  Just not convenient to those involved. I take offense to that.

Winter and Spring sports deal with schedule changes all the time.

I would go to extreme examples, but won't just yet on how one team has to play 48 minutes to get their win vs a team when another doesn't vs the same team.

Jack1990

September 22, 2018, 03:19:19 pm #10 Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 03:23:48 pm by Jack1990
NFHS Rule 3-1-3, reads: "A period or periods may be shortened in any emergency by agreement of the opposing coaches and referee. By mutual agreement of the opposing coaches and the referee, any remaining periods may be shortened at any time or the game terminated."

Maybe they are considering the rain an emergency. Lol

Brian G

I read that as well.  I just don't see how there is not more urgency to finish a game that is competitive.

Jack1990


Adjudicator

Quote from: B.G. on September 22, 2018, 03:36:56 pm
I read that as well.  I just don't see how there is not more urgency to finish a game that is competitive.

BG see page 66 of the AAA Handbook. We got an email on Friday from the AAA regarding game ending procedures.

Brian G

Quote from: Adjudicator on September 22, 2018, 11:52:11 pm
BG see page 66 of the AAA Handbook. We got an email on Friday from the AAA regarding game ending procedures.
Yeah, I did read that. 

So is the 2 qtr rule "negotiable"? Or no such rule exists?


AA Insider

Hampton and Parker's chapel game made it to halftime it was called right before start of 2nd half due to lightening

football_referee

from page 66 of the AAA handbook

game ending procedures for a conference game found on page 66 of the AAA Handbook.

 

B. Conference Games. The following are options for conference game-ending procedures:

1. Games that are resumed shall be from the point of interruption. (time, score, down, distance, etc.)

2. Games may be terminated with the existing score upon agreement of both school's administrative authority. Conference games may not end in a tie.

3. All postponed or suspended games will be rescheduled for the immediately following Saturday between 10:00 AM and 7:00 PM at a time agreed upon by both school's administration. If the administration cannot agree on the game time, then the game must start at 7:00 PM on that Saturday.

4. If a postponed or suspended game cannot be rescheduled for the immediately following Saturday because of inclement weather, the game will be rescheduled for 7:00 PM on the following Monday.

Hope that clears up your question

Brian G

It doesn't.  I read that 5 times Friday and Saturday.

My question remains...."Is there a 2 qtr rule or not for conference"?  It's been stated before but it's not in the book.  All we have is what you posted and it doesn't reference that.

There was a chart the showed how long games for all sports had to be played to be "official".  But I can't find it.

There is no doubt safety is paramount, but far to many games didn't play a substantial enough lapsed time  The rule shows MANDATES for finishing suspended games and some just said "Naw", we're good when the game was in doubt.

Jack1990

NFHS Rule 3-1-4  ... Games interrupted because of events beyond the control of the responsible administrative authority shall be continued from the point of interruption, unless the teams agree to terminate the game with the existing score, or as otherwise provided for by state association adoption.

football_referee

Ok I think I see what you are asking now
"Is there a 2 qtr rule or not for conference"? Not that we as game officials have been told
Conference games must be completed

This is going to be a long post but stay with me

If a Conference game is stopped before the completions of the game (Like for weather or lights malfunction) it will be started from the point of interruption. as per the AAA handbook: as follows
B. Conference Games. The following are options for conference game-ending procedures:

1. Games that are resumed shall be from the point of interruption. (time, score, down, distance, etc.)

2. Games may be terminated with the existing score upon agreement of both school's administrative authority. (this usually happens in Non Conference games) for example lets say Corning is Playing Junction City at Junction City The game Starts at 7:00 Pm and at the 8 Minute mark the game get delayed by a thunderstorm or power failure. the game is tied 0-0 or what ever the score is.  The school administrators and coaches along with game officials will get together and come up with a time that if the game is not resumed by lets say 9:00 pm the contest will not continue that night. 9pm rolls around and still not able to play. now that administrator must get together and decide if the game will continue at a later date and time. Now under normal circumstances this non conference game will not be continued and the score will stand. things that these schools will take into count is travel not sure how far by bus it is from Corning to Junction City it would not be logical to travel back to Corning just to turn around and go back to JC on Saturday and Corning has not budgeted a over night stay. and then why would you play non conference game on Monday when you have a game to prepare for on Friday.

Now for conference games if the game in interrupted before it is complete whether it in the first quarter of the last quarter you have to have a winner  Conference games may not end in a tie. the reason it would play heck on trying to seat for playoff.
So lets say one team is up 14-0 now the schools can say if agreed up on they can call it a contest and the score will count. and they can site NFHS Rule 3-1-3, reads: "A period or periods may be shortened in any emergency by agreement of the opposing coaches and referee. By mutual agreement of the opposing coaches and the referee, any remaining periods may be shortened at any time or the game terminated." or the losing coach knows his team is going to lose anyway. 
The home can agree because the margin of Victory is greater then 13.

3. All postponed or suspended games will be rescheduled for the immediately following Saturday between 10:00 AM and 7:00 PM at a time agreed upon by both school's administration. If the administration cannot agree on the game time, then the game must start at 7:00 PM on that Saturday.

4. If a postponed or suspended game cannot be rescheduled for the immediately following Saturday because of inclement weather, the game will be rescheduled for 7:00 PM on the following Monday.

Now BG I have never seen or heard of this happening before and I am sure there is something written to cover this.

Lets say that during the second quarter of a conference game it is tied and the game is interrupted by lighting, the school administrators come up with a drop dead time that the contest must resume by in order it finish that night, deadline passes and game is a no go. 
Now they can not agree on a starting time on Saturday, AAA handbook says that the game must resume at 7:00 PM on Saturday night unless weather is a factor that the game can not be played then they comeback on Monday at 7:00 

Here is where it get sticky and I am just Assuming here because I have never heard of it Happening lets say the one team for what ever reason does not want to play and as stated a conference game can not end in a tie so I am guessing that the game will be a forfeit and the team will be awarded the 13 points for a conference victory.



Brian G

Quote from: Jack1990 on September 23, 2018, 03:51:45 pm
NFHS Rule 3-1-4  ... Games interrupted because of events beyond the control of the responsible administrative authority shall be continued from the point of interruption, unless the teams agree to terminate the game with the existing score, or as otherwise provided for by state association adoption.

Thanks for posting.  Saw that one as well.

Listen all, I appreciate all the links and info.  I'm just trying to pin down if the 2 qtr deal was a canard all this time.  Regardless of how this is officially excused, it doesn't seem like a game should count if at least half isn't played.

football_referee

one more thing I have always been told that if a Game does not make it to halftime it is not a official game unless the school agree to count it as an official game

Brian G

Football ref, that is pretty much how I read it all as well.  The tiebreaker deal is a huge part of my push on the matter.  A team can "lock in" a beneficial result without risk of it getting worse. 

These games (except for those already at mercy rule level) should be played to a better conclusion.  The AAA planned for it within their bylaws and some teams just "blew off".  For me, I don't like it. 

football_referee

BG I am assuming that you are talking about conference game only
I agree that the should be played and I can't really see a coach not wanting to play the game out. I can think of only a few reasons why the game can't be finished and this may sound bad but a death of a play or coach on the field comes to mind there is a very small window that games have to be played by and somtimes the window closes quick

There are advantages and disadvantages to not playing to halftime player will not get hurt but it's not fair to next weeks opponent as you did not have to play but I guess it's just like dropping football mid season if they had already played a couple of conference games and the 13 point margin was not reached it's not fair that the team yet to play get the 13 points where the teams that played did not. It could mean your team missing out on the  playoffs

athletic supporter

Bryant has "won" 2 games this year that didn't get completed. Would they have won those games anyway? Probably but it skews the results.

Mulerider4Life

Quote from: athletic supporter on September 24, 2018, 07:09:07 am
Bryant has "won" 2 games this year that didn't get completed. Would they have won those games anyway? Probably but it skews the results.

The Bryant situation brings up a good point in my book. In the future of rivalries, could a die hard fan place a so called "shooter" or trouble maker so that his team could win? Would Bryant have won? Probably so. But the game should have been finished. It's not like it was 40-0.

Fox 16 Arkansas Fox 24 Arkansas