7A Boys Top 10 Ranking

[Badger]

Just for fun, here's my top 10 based on results so far.  Feel free to add yours.

1.  Springdale
2.  Rogers Heritage
3.  Rogers
4.  Conway
5.  Har-Ber
6.  Fayetteville
7.  Bentonville
8.  FS Northside
9.  Bryant
10. Catholic

[ArkHog#7]

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[Hornet-Hawg]

Hope to see Conway make some noise this season in the 7A!

Bryant at Conway tomorrow night!

[WillC]

Saw Northside beat Springdale 2-0 on a neutral field, but I definitely believe Springdale was the better team.

[Badger]

Springdale and Northside are scheduled to play again tomorrow.  I see Northside as a top 3-4 team, just didn't get the results for a week or two.  They did get a 2-1 win against Rogers on Friday.  Not much separates the top 8 teams.  However, Conway's a little bit of a wild card, since haven't played a top team yet, and Bentonville's trending down with a 2-0 loss to Har-Ber and 5-0 loss to Springdale.  They play Rogers tomorrow, so will see if the trend continues.  Some good matchups this week; the Bryant/Conway game should be telling.  Bryant has some talented underclassmen and will be a team to watch next year and a championship contender in two years.

[ArkHog#7]

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[FutbolPhan]

@Conway_Soccer Twitter feed lists Conway Varsity Boys as #1 team in Arkansas and #13 nationally per MaxPreps. Anyone that has seen them play want to confirm the lofty rankings?

[Badger]

I haven't seen Conway play, but they tied Greenwood tonight.  I have seen Greenwood outplayed by a mediocre Catholic squad, losing 0-2.  Unless Greenwood played out of its mind and/or Conway was way off tonight, this result and a couple of other Conway results, including a tie to 4A Dardanelle, tie to 5A Maumelle, and tie to Bryant, who was beaten 2-0 by Fayetteville, seems to indicate the MaxPrep rankings are not very reliable for soccer.  Conway is a solid team and should be a favorite to win the 7A Central this year, but after this week, I now doubt they'd be a top 7 team in the 7A West.  I don't think any of the 7A Central/East teams would fair real well in the 7A West.  So far this year, Bryant has lost to Fayetteville 2-0 and Catholic was dominated by Rogers 3-1, and Rogers/Fayetteville appear to be middle of the pack 7A West teams. For football/basketball, where results tend to be more globally and consistently reported, maybe the MaxPreps algorithm has a little more information to work with to produce more accurate rankings. 

[Badger]

My updated top 10 based on results from this week. 

1.  Springdale
2.  Rogers Heritage
3.  FS Northside (+5)
4.  Rogers (-1)
5.  Har-Ber
6.  Fayetteville
7.  Bentonville
8.  Bryant (+1)
9.  Conway (-5)
10. Catholic

[mijally]

I haven't seen Conway play, but they tied Greenwood tonight.  I have seen Greenwood outplayed by a mediocre Catholic squad, losing 0-2.  Unless Greenwood played out of its mind and/or Conway was way off tonight, this result and a couple of other Conway results, including a tie to 4A Dardanelle, tie to 5A Maumelle, and tie to Bryant, who was beaten 2-0 by Fayetteville, seems to indicate the MaxPrep rankings are not very reliable for soccer.  Conway is a solid team and should be a favorite to win the 7A Central this year, but after this week, I now doubt they'd be a top 7 team in the 7A West.  I don't think any of the 7A Central/East teams would fair real well in the 7A West.  So far this year, Bryant has lost to Fayetteville 2-0 and Catholic was dominated by Rogers 3-1, and Rogers/Fayetteville appear to be middle of the pack 7A West teams. For football/basketball, where results tend to be more globally and consistently reported, maybe the MaxPreps algorithm has a little more information to work with to produce more accurate rankings.

You are using data in your personal ranking the algorithm is not. They don't have enough data for the rankings to work itself out. They don't have a 1-1 tie with Dardanelle posted and the Greenwood game hasn't been scored yet. They also aren't using historical data on the 7A west dominance in recent years like we have seen. Give it more time and it will even out. For 5A and the 4A teams with more results posted it's falling in line. I think the 7A will too in the next few games.

[Badger]

Mijally, you are correct about MaxPrep rankings lining up better with more results reported.  The problem I'm seeing with MaxPreps, at least with the soccer schedules I've reviewed, is garbage in/garbage out.  I have noticed several 7A schedules that include JV results.  For example, I'm sure Rogers' ranking is negatively impacted by a loss by its JV team 3-0 to Berryville.  Also, as you pointed out, some results aren't reported in MaxPreps.  When all results are reported and accurately reported as they tend to be in football, I think the MaxPreps's algorithm is very good.  Regardless, my attempt was to answer FutbolPhan's question whether Conway's "lofty" ranking by MaxPreps was justified.  IMO, based on all results I'm aware of, Conway is not the #1 team in Arkansas and #13 in the nation.

Also, my personal ranking of the 7A top 10 is based on results I'm aware of from this year.  I am not factoring in any historical data.  If that were the case, both Bentonville and Catholic would be in the top tier of my ranking, and Heritage would not even be in the top 10.

[mijally]

You nailed it. Nothing worse than bad data to jack up the algorithm. I agree with you Conway was a bit over ranked as well as several others and my point was they will slowly go down as the 7A west teams rise. By historically I meant more the fact that it has been proven the last few years that the best soccer is played in the 7A west. Someone from Central Ar has to win the tournament again to change that perception. At least for me.  I was curious to know if Bentonville has basketball players that play soccer?  I know they lost a good Sr class but I expect them to always reload.

[Badger]

You're right, Bentonville lost a lot and seems young.  The biggest loss might have been Jose Castro, a junior who's now playing Academy soccer for FC Dallas.  Still, it has quite a few underclassmen who play for the excellent Comets 00 or 01 Premier teams.  If this current squad was to stay together, I think it would compete for the title again next year and the year after.  However, with the second high school coming on line next year, I'm not sure how this will affect things.  I know almost all the boys on Bentonville's roster from club soccer, and I don't believe many play other sports.  I think a couple play football. 

As far as 7A soccer in central AR v west/northwest AR is concerned, unfortunately, I'm with you, I don't see things changing significantly in the future.  However, I think Bryant for sure and maybe Catholic will be competitive against the best in the 7A West in a couple years.  Both have some very good underclassmen.  Bryant could win it all in 2018, especially if Bentonville's talent gets diluted with the two high schools. 

[mijally]

Thanks.  I think Central Ar soccer gets a little diluted by the number of schools in the area. I know Maumelle has to share players from their town with quite a few other schools. When my youngest son comes through high school in a few years I already know that his current club teammates will be going to Maumelle, NLR, Charter, Catholic or CAC. If they all went to Maumelle the roster would be strong for his class.

[Badger]

That is an issue for public schools in the Little Rock area.  If LR Central got all the players in its zone, they'd compete with the best of the 7A West easily. 

Maumelle could (should?) have won the title last year and will compete again this year.  The Clarksville game this week will be a good one.  I believe the 5A could go to any of the following teams this year - Maumelle, Clarksville, Hot Springs, DeQueen, and Valley View.  Like I think you've alluded, MaxPreps appears to have gotten the 5A right so far.  Good luck Tues. 

[mijally]

Should have is correct. Tough way to lose. Especially since that game was my oldest son's last of his career. I can honestly say I have never seen a "no contact, no takedown, no touch, nobody hurt, non-scoring opportunity" called a dangerous play so the defending champion can get a 4 yard indirect to even the score and win a semifinal state game in OT.  It takes a special kind of center ref to make that kind of call. If that guy shows up again this year Hot Springs and Dequeen will be prohibited favorites. He'll make sure of it.

[mijally]

The Clarksvulle game should be a good one. If I wasn't going out of town I would go to that one. They seem to be on a roll right now. Whichever team pulls this one out will be in the drivers seat to win the conference.

[chaoslord]

I can honestly say I have never seen a "no contact, no takedown, no touch, nobody hurt, non-scoring opportunity" called a dangerous play

I know you're venting over that call from last year but this part needs a bit of correction. Dangerous play by it's very nature is probably going to be non-contact. If there is contact it's probably going to fall under one of the direct free kick fouls. Same with a takedown or an injury: if that happens, it almost certainly will be a DFK. It may be possible to have contact and be dangerous play in NFHS (Playing in a dangerous manner is explicitly non-contact in USSF), but it will be few and far between. I think it is pretty likely you have seen dangerous play called that meets most of your criteria.

All that is to say, I never did see the play in question so you may very well be right that it was a poor call. The hyperbole here was a little strong, though. Well that or dangerous play doesn't come up much these days haha.

[ninjafighter]

Am curious.... Was this the same center that did the Valley View - Hot Springs quarterfinal game?   If so,  I totally agree with your earlier statement.    I didn't get to see the Maumelle semi match (and it sounds like Maumelle was hosed) , but I can say that I have never seen a game called so badly, and so heavily favored to one team (Hot Springs) as the VV - HS game. 

[mijally]

I know you're venting over that call from last year but this part needs a bit of correction. Dangerous play by it's very nature is probably going to be non-contact. If there is contact it's probably going to fall under one of the direct free kick fouls. Same with a takedown or an injury: if that happens, it almost certainly will be a DFK. It may be possible to have contact and be dangerous play in NFHS (Playing in a dangerous manner is explicitly non-contact in USSF), but it will be few and far between. I think it is pretty likely you have seen dangerous play called that meets most of your criteria.

All that is to say, I never did see the play in question so you may very well be right that it was a poor call. The hyperbole here was a little strong, though. Well that or dangerous play doesn't come up much these days haha.

It's just one of those things were you had to see the play. It was "very harsh" of a call as I've heard expert commentators say. I understand "dangerous play" just never seen it called when there was none. I keep watching games but you'll never see it called when there is no danger. Like pass interference on a Hail Mary thrown out of the end zone. A goal tending call on an air ball 5 feet short. Stuff like that. The main point I'm trying to make is: do what you got to do to make sure that guy doesn't ref your games. That's the key.

[mijally]

Am curious.... Was this the same center that did the Valley View - Hot Springs quarterfinal game?   If so,  I totally agree with your earlier statement.    I didn't get to see the Maumelle semi match (and it sounds like Maumelle was hosed) , but I can say that I have never seen a game called so badly, and so heavily favored to one team (Hot Springs) as the VV - HS game.

Yes he was. I saw that game too and it was ugly. I knew as soon as I saw him at ours it would take our best to overcome him. We had chances so we can't look back and dwell on it but learn from it. I felt like we got "greenhorned". Initiated so to speak to how they roll in 5A.  I bet Valley View players are as motivated as Maumelle's are from last year. 

[Arbitro]

Just to add a bit to chaoslord's comments on dangerous play, a normal component of conduct that falls under the category of dangerous play is that the play disadvantages an opponent.  That is why a high kick is only considered dangerous play when an opponent is close by.  The opponent cannot safely play a ball that would normally be played with the head because of the risk of injury posed by the high boot.  In the same way, a low header will be considered dangerous play in traffic because the opponent cannot safely kick the ball (where that would be the normal play) without the risk of kicking the other player in the head.  And lying on the ground with the ball trapped under a players legs is dangerous play because a nearby opponent cannot safely kick the ball without kicking the player on the ground.  The lack of the disadvantaged opponent is why an isolated bicycle kick or a kick by a player on the ground when no opponent is near is not called as dangerous play.

The odd thing is that you rarely see dangerous play called at the professional level because the pros generally are willing, for example, to play the ball with their head even if a high boot is on the way.  The result of the play is either header/no contact/play on (the player is not disadvantaged) or header/contact/foul or foul+card.  At the sub-professional level this degree of kamakazi play is a little less common (fortunately) and dangerous play calls are more common.

As to the game in question, I have no affiliation with the teams involved, didn't see the play, and don't know who was the official, so I have no opinion on the correctness of the call.  I just wanted to clarify the general theory behind a dangerous play call.

[mijally]

Thanks and I appreciate it. I won't say anything else about it. It's done.

[sevenof400]

Sorry to go off topic but does anyone know what happened with the 4/8 game between Rogers Heritage and Bentonville boys?

To add something on this topic, MaxPreps has many problems and among them is the fact there schedules are not correct...for example, the above game does not even appear on either teams' schedule as far as I can tell....

[chaoslord]

Bentonville 2, Heritage 2, Bentonville won 5-4 on PKs

[chaoslord]

Also back to the main topic, I have a hard time seeing a team from the Central winning the championship on the boys side this year. I'll admit I'm potentially biased since I see the West teams a lot and rarely, if ever, see the central teams, but Springdale looks scary good to me. After them it's kind of a clump to decide the rest of the places but they have all looked extremely competitive. I think it will depend on how the bracket ends up but I wouldn't be surprised to see an all west semi final

[Badger]

Yes, I didn't see the Bentonville/Heritage result in MaxPreps.  I've adjusted my top 10 to reflect Bentonville's much better week.  I agree with Chaoslord, so far, it's looking like Springdale is the clear #1, #2-#7 are all pretty even.  The 3 7A Central teams are fairly close to each other but there's a chasm between that group and the 7A West teams above.  I think it's probable the semis will be all 7A West, almost worked that way last year, but hope I'm wrong.

1.  Springdale
2.  Rogers Heritage
3.  FS Northside (+5)
4.  Rogers (-1)
5.  Bentonville (+2)
6.  Har-Bar (-1)
7.  Fayetteville (-1)
8.  Bryant (+1)
9.  Conway (-5)
10. Catholic

[FutbolPhan]

I believe that the talent in central Arkansas is down considerably this year. Conway lost 15 seniors, 10 were starters. Catholic lost 6 senior starters  Not sure about Bryant but probably a lot of talent graduated as well. Conway has 6-7 seniors this year but only one saw starting action as a junior last year; most got little field time at all. Conway is apparently relying on a couple of seniors, a group of sophomores who have zero varsity experience and a junior or two to provide the talent this year. Other than the first conference game vs. Bryant, they had not played a 7A team this season. Until the game last week vs. 6A Greenwood, they had not played a road game. They may have enough to win the 7A Central conference but doubt they could make a deep run in the 7A tournament. Plus the antiquated sweeper-stopper, three-man defense that they play doesn't match up very well with teams that like to possess the ball...

[WillC]

Also back to the main topic, I have a hard time seeing a team from the Central winning the championship on the boys side this year. I'll admit I'm potentially biased since I see the West teams a lot and rarely, if ever, see the central teams, but Springdale looks scary good to me. After them it's kind of a clump to decide the rest of the places but they have all looked extremely competitive. I think it will depend on how the bracket ends up but I wouldn't be surprised to see an all west semi final

Springdale is my early pick to take the 7A championship. They only game I've seen them play against a team from the central was a 2-0 victory over Van Buren.

[Badger]

My updated rankings after this weeks results.

1.  Springdale
2.  Rogers Heritage
3.  FS Northside
4.  Har-Ber (+2)
5.  Bentonville
6.  Rogers (-2)
7.  Fayetteville
8.  Conway (+1)
9.  Bryant (-1)
10. Catholic

Catholic made a case this week as a Central team that might be able to play with some of these West teams, as they clearly outplayed Conway and dominated CAC.  However, they can't seem to find the net and get results.  If/when that starts to happen, they might start creeping up my board.  Although Conway plays a style more associated with hockey, physical play and hockey-like line shifts, the strategy is paying off with results.  They don't seem to allow teams to possess the ball for long and although unlikely, could frustrate the skilled teams at the top of these rankings, especially if the officiating is poor.  Ugly but effective.

[Badger]

Updated rankings after this weeks results:

1.  In alphabetical order:  Bentonville, Fayetteville, FS Northside, Rogers, Rogers Heritage, Springdale, Springdale Har-Ber
8.  In alphabetical order:  Bryant, Catholic, Conway

Without being able to see these teams in person, it's getting tough to rank the 7A West.  Based on results, it seems an any given day situation.

I have seen Catholic, Conway, and Bryant.  Catholic's starting 11 is clearly better than Conway's and Bryant's, but its bench is much thinner than both.  Conway and Bryant have the numbers, and both do a great job of subbing throughout the game.  For about 60 minutes, Catholic has clearly outplayed (dominated is too strong) both Conway and Bryant, then the gas tank hits empty. 

[Laird Williams]

Looking at records together with MAXPREP's strength of schedule multiplier, NWAR is looking formidable (apologies if this has been posted):

http://www.maxpreps.com/m/rankings/list.aspx?ssid=afbe8a79-8c37-4708-be37-fe93fb1837d4&state=AR

[revolution]

Looking at records together with MAXPREP's strength of schedule multiplier, NWAR is looking formidable (apologies if this has been posted):

http://www.maxpreps.com/m/rankings/list.aspx?ssid=afbe8a79-8c37-4708-be37-fe93fb1837d4&state=AR

One obvious problem to me:  Bryant ranked #9, Catholic #20.  However, Catholic has spanked Bryant twice.  The first game ended 4-3, but it was 4-1 with 10 mins left when the Catholic defense got sloppy.  In the second game at Bryant, Catholic scored twice in the first 10 mins and never looked back.

So how can those rankings not weight these results?  I'm a Hornet fan, and I've seen them play several times.  No way, no way, are they in the top 10 of the state.  Sadly . . .

But those girls!

[Hornet-Hawg]

One obvious problem to me:  Bryant ranked #9, Catholic #20.  However, Catholic has spanked Bryant twice.  The first game ended 4-3, but it was 4-1 with 10 mins left when the Catholic defense got sloppy.  In the second game at Bryant, Catholic scored twice in the first 10 mins and never looked back.

So how can those rankings not weight these results?  I'm a Hornet fan, and I've seen them play several times.  No way, no way, are they in the top 10 of the state.  Sadly . . .

They showed promise at the beginning of the season.  I thought as the young talent matured, they would become a playoff contender by the end of the season.  Instead they seem to have crumbled. 

[Laird Williams]

I agree that Catholic (and Central and Benton?) seem slighted in MaxPrep rankings. And Jonesboro, as an example, is perhaps overrated? I suppose we are about to find out. Central has one of the best young players (he's a sophomore) in the state in Jose "Chepe" Lizaola. Fun to watch, if anyone gets a chance.

[Badger]

The Bryant boys will be a team to watch for the next couple years.  The junior class is mediocre but deep, and they have some very good sophomores and freshmen.  As far as the games against Catholic, yes, the first game Catholic dominated, but they did get sloppy (or tired) toward the end.  However, I saw the second game differently.  After Catholic got up 2-0, Bryant came to life and had Catholic on its heels well into the second half, getting it to 2-1 and having several chances for more.  Then, Catholic woke up and finished it off in the last 20 minutes or so for a 5-1 final score.  I'm not sure, but perhaps the Bryant fans' classless taunting of one of the Catholic players played a role in waking Catholic up.  The Catholic side was dumbfounded why they singled this kid out, as he's as nice and polite a kid as you'll meet; it was like watching the clubbing of a baby seal.

[Badger]

I agree that Catholic (and Central and Benton?) seem slighted in MaxPrep rankings. And Jonesboro, as an example, is perhaps overrated? I suppose we are about to find out. Central has one of the best young players (he's a sophomore) in the state in Jose "Chepe" Lizaola. Fun to watch, if anyone gets a chance.

Yes, I've seen a lot of good underclassmen this year.  It's been very impressive.  Leo Martinez SO (Maumelle), Jhorman Cruz SO (Bryant), and Martin Ramirez FR (Bryant) have stood out.  I'm looking forward to the State Tourney, as I hear the 7A West has several quality underclassmen.

[Hornet-Hawg]

I'm not sure, but perhaps the Bryant fans' classless taunting of one of the Catholic players played a role in waking Catholic up.  The Catholic side was dumbfounded why they singled this kid out, as he's as nice and polite a kid as you'll meet; it was like watching the clubbing of a baby seal.

Was that in the second half?  I didn't see anything like that but I left at halftime.

[Badger]

Was that in the second half?  I didn't see anything like that but I left at halftime.

Yes. 

[Laird Williams]

Yes, I've seen a lot of good underclassmen this year.  It's been very impressive.  Leo Martinez SO (Maumelle), Jhorman Cruz SO (Bryant), and Martin Ramirez FR (Bryant) have stood out.  I'm looking forward to the State Tourney, as I hear the 7A West has several quality underclassmen.

You're on the ball: you just listed three of the top five or six players in central Arkansas. Hall has some ballers too (though granted they aren't 7A).

[Badger]

You're on the ball: you just listed three of the top five or six players in central Arkansas. Hall has some ballers too (though granted they aren't 7A).

Yes, I think Hall will make noise at State.  I've just been surprised at how many really solid underclassmen I've seen this year in central AR.  I know Springdale has a couple of phenoms, one a freshman and the other a sophomore.  Looking forward to watching them.

[Laird Williams]

....perhaps the Bryant fans' classless taunting of one of the Catholic players played a role in waking Catholic up.  The Catholic side was dumbfounded why they singled this kid out, as he's as nice and polite a kid as you'll meet; it was like watching the clubbing of a baby seal.

I heard it got ugly and that it was high schoolers, not grown-ups, just to be clear. Still, Bryant's coach, or somebody, should have put a stop to it.

[Badger]

I heard it got ugly and that it was high schoolers, not grown-ups, just to be clear. Still, Bryant's coach, or somebody, should have put a stop to it.

It was ugly, but to split hairs a little, I have learned it was a group of former students/players, not current students - begs the question, when do you become a grown-up?  Anyway, point taken - it was not parents. 

[Laird Williams]

It was ugly, but to split hairs a little, I have learned it was a group of former students/players, not current students - begs the question, when do you become a grown-up?  Anyway, point taken - it was not parents.

Response #1: you mean raises the question.
Response #2: Are Duke fans grown-ups?

Sorry Dukies, I went to North Carolina.

Response #3: The art of courtly heckling takes a good long while to master (to that end, I submit responses #1, 2 & 3. )
Coda: Embarrasingly, I'm a parent who occasionally heckles (though in those moments it's invariably my own kids). Whether or not I've grown up is open to debate.

But I digress. I'm coming back to slip Central into the #10 spot, knocking Catholic to 11. Ha. How's that for a back on topic heckle?

[Badger]

Response #1: you mean raises the question.

Probably, but didn't realize I was in English class.  Give Laird Williams a red ink marker! 

[Badger]

But I digress. I'm coming back to slip Central into the #10 spot, knocking Catholic to 11. Ha. How's that for a back on topic heckle?

You can put Central wherever you want but would like to see your top 9.  If you have Bryant or Conway in there, then please let me enlighten you - Catholic's better than both.  BTW, not sure if I should have had a comma, no comma, etc. where I placed the dash in that last sentence.  Hopefully, you can still comprehend the meaning.  Is that a heckle or too much?   

[FutbolPhan]

You can put Central wherever you want but would like to see your top 9.  If you have Bryant or Conway in there, then please let me enlighten you - Catholic's better than both.  BTW, not sure if I should have had a comma, no comma, etc. where I placed the dash in that last sentence.  Hopefully, you can still comprehend the meaning.  Is that a heckle or too much? 

Not sure where you want to rank Central, Conway or Bryant. Keep in mind that Conway defeated Central 5-1 and Jonesboro 8-0 earlier in the year. Russellville defeated Central as well. I am pretty sure the 7A/6A Central is stronger overall than the 7A/6A East.

[Laird Williams]

You can put Central wherever you want but would like to see your top 9.  If you have Bryant or Conway in there, then please let me enlighten you - Catholic's better than both.  BTW, not sure if I should have had a comma, no comma, etc. where I placed the dash in that last sentence.  Hopefully, you can still comprehend the meaning.  Is that a heckle or too much? 

LOL - hey, man, let us recall that you were the one with the hair splitting, but fair enough: I beg your forgiveness.

I couldn't and wouldn't change your first nine. I really have no idea.

I suspect my confidence in Central's rise in level of play since the start of the season is about to get seriously adjusted: I have not seen any of the NWAR teams and didn't see our early season Conway game. I do know we've improved since then. We played Jonesboro late in the year and smoked them about like Conway did.  Perhaps Catholic has improved more than us. I'd love to find out. Wish we could play them again, even if just for city bragging rights (though Hall could probably beat both of us in that arena).

Best of luck this weekend, Badger, and everyone else.

[Laird Williams]

....Russellville defeated Central as well....

I saw that game. Russellville has a couple of players and a coach who knows the game. They can play, but we gave them the game with an own goal.

[Badger]

I would love to see Catholic play Central again at this point in the year.  Both teams looked dreadful in their meeting earlier this year.  Maybe Central can say the same, but that game was by far Catholic's worst performance of the year.  After that game, I was thinking Catholic may not make it to State.  Anyway, early season games, especially non-conference, don't say much, as coaches/teams are (or should be) still trying to figure things out.  A good example is Russellville tying Bentonville early in the year.  Not sure that would happen now.

Good luck to you, too, Laird Williams!  I think we'll both need it.  Oh yeah, I think you're probably right about Hall being the class of central AR.