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Is 7A pulling away?

Started by 10yardfight, September 13, 2007, 03:55:15 pm

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10yardfight

With the recent victories in the west, (Southside against Greenwood, Van Buren against Alma) does it seem like the 7A teams are starting to put more distance between the talent of the 5A teams?  I know both of those games could have gone either way, but usually G-wood and Alma are top 5A schools, and SS and VB are not always 7A powerhouses.

I think in the next few years we're start to see the 7A teams getting better and better than the 5A schools in their regions.  But I could be wrong.

Just wondering what others think about this.

Don Quixote

Quote from: 10yardfight on September 13, 2007, 03:55:15 pm
With the recent victories in the west, (Southside against Greenwood, Van Buren against Alma) does it seem like the 7A teams are starting to put more distance between the talent of the 5A teams?  I know both of those games could have gone either way, but usually G-wood and Alma are top 5A schools, and SS and VB are not always 7A powerhouses.

I think in the next few years we're start to see the 7A teams getting better and better than the 5A schools in their regions.  But I could be wrong.

Just wondering what others think about this.


I see what you are saying, but don't you think SS is one of the power houses in the 7A?  They are the defending state champions right now so I would not put them at the bottom of the 7A barrel.  Now for the 7A being better then the 5A.  They should be better, they have many more students then that of the 5A schools, therefore, they should have more talent.  We could have been asking this exact same question last year when GW and Alma won against their respected 7A rivals.  I would say from top to bottom the 7A is much better than the 5A, but I'm not basing that on the GW vs. SS and the Alma vs. VB games.  Just the simple fact that they have more talent to pull from, that is why they are in a bigger conference.

shiloh forever

It's just about who has the better night when it comes to non conference games

ARDA2

On average larger schools should field better football teams if their players represent a random sample of their respective surrounding population base.  This is not to say that smaller schools will not produce superior teams or individual talent in any given year.

Smithian

How is Southside not a 7A powerhouse when it can be argued Southside might be the best program in the 7A overall? Just wondering.

30kfeet

Quote from: ARDA2 on September 13, 2007, 04:34:47 pm
On average larger schools should field better football teams if their players represent a random sample of their respective surrounding population base.  This is not to say that smaller schools will not produce superior teams or individual talent in any given year.

I see your point and it makes logical sense on the surface, but athletes are not randomly selected from a school's attendance zone.  The reason that they are usually better is that they have a larger talent pool from which to choose the better athletes.   The average athlete in a smaller town is probably not much different than the average athlete in a larger town.   There are just more good athletes to form a team.  Yes, small towns produce some great athletes, just not in as many numbers typically.  Think what happens when a small school has a large population base from which to choose athletes.  How would that affect a lower tiered conference?

xtremewildcat

IMO,
These classifications are still too watered down. I feel there are about 6 decent 7A teams, 4, good 6A teams and 4 good 5A teams. There should be a 6A, but no higher. PA, Greenwood, and CF should be in the new 6A. Some of the traditionally weaker 6A teams should be allowed to move down to 5A. Searcy, Sheridan, WC, etc. The 7A teams would have a bit of an advantage but most of them are going to split into two schools anyway.

10yardfight

Quote from: Smithian on September 13, 2007, 05:03:12 pm
How is Southside not a 7A powerhouse when it can be argued Southside might be the best program in the 7A overall? Just wondering.

To me, a powerhouse is a team that is consistently in the top 10 for a period of more than 5 years.  One state championship in the past 5 years does not make a team a powerhouse.  Before last year, Southside did not even make the playoffs for two years in a row.  A powerhouse team will make the playoffs every year.  Southside may become a powerhouse, but I wouldn't call them a powerhouse based on one year.

mack

Quote from: 10yardfight on September 14, 2007, 08:08:58 am
Quote from: Smithian on September 13, 2007, 05:03:12 pm
How is Southside not a 7A powerhouse when it can be argued Southside might be the best program in the 7A overall? Just wondering.

To me, a powerhouse is a team that is consistently in the top 10 for a period of more than 5 years.  One state championship in the past 5 years does not make a team a powerhouse.  Before last year, Southside did not even make the playoffs for two years in a row.  A powerhouse team will make the playoffs every year.  Southside may become a powerhouse, but I wouldn't call them a powerhouse based on one year.


Uhhhh, get ready for the stats.  If I remember correctly, SS has been pretty powerful for the last decade and a half, or so.  If you only look at a two year period, you are not being very objective.  I'm sure bait or ARDA will enlighten you.

7AFBFAN

10yardfight, your statement about Southside not being a powerhouse is crazy. They are consistently one of the toughest teams in the state and have numerous state championships to show they were impossible to beat on numerous occasions when it mattered the most. I would consider SS and Little Rock Central to be powerhouses in 7A, Greenwood and Wynne in 5A, Warren in 4A, and Shilo in 3A. Saying SS is a powerhouse does not make them the best, in my opinion it makes them respected as one of the toughest teams to beat. Of course every team has a down year on occasion, that does not remove them from the list though due to their overall accomplishments. 

10yardfight

Quote from: 7AFBFAN on September 14, 2007, 09:54:30 am
10yardfight, your statement about Southside not being a powerhouse is crazy. They are consistently one of the toughest teams in the state and have numerous state championships to show they were impossible to beat on numerous occasions when it mattered the most. I would consider SS and Little Rock Central to be powerhouses in 7A, Greenwood and Wynne in 5A, Warren in 4A, and Shilo in 3A. Saying SS is a powerhouse does not make them the best, in my opinion it makes them respected as one of the toughest teams to beat. Of course every team has a down year on occasion, that does not remove them from the list though due to their overall accomplishments. 

How many state championships?  How many playoff appearances?  Give me some real numbers and then the numbers of other 7A teams.

not ray

Southside 7 state titles.  One state title loss.  The real fact is 2 down seasons don't wash away that they were and now are a powerhouse.  I believe abou 17 playoff appearances 10 or more conference titles.  This is all since 1983 when they first started the playoffs for the big schools.  It seems fairly obvious you are either about 8 years old or have lived in a cave somewhere in the Arctic to not know that Southside is by FAR the most successful program in the largest classification since the playoffs began. 

10yardfight

Quote from: Special Delivery Jones on September 14, 2007, 10:56:07 am
Southside 7 state titles.  One state title loss.  The real fact is 2 down seasons don't wash away that they were and now are a powerhouse.  I believe abou 17 playoff appearances 10 or more conference titles.  This is all since 1983 when they first started the playoffs for the big schools.  It seems fairly obvious you are either about 8 years old or have lived in a cave somewhere in the Arctic to not know that Southside is by FAR the most successful program in the largest classification since the playoffs began. 

So how long has 7A been around?  Southside has ONE 7A state championship and 1 or 2 playoff appearances in 7A.  I am talking about powerhouses in 7A.  Pay more attention to what the post is about next time.  You can't count 5A stats in the newly created 7A conference.











not ray

September 14, 2007, 12:23:55 pm #13 Last Edit: September 14, 2007, 12:27:20 pm by Special Delivery Jones
It is the same dang thing.  The 7A has been around 1 year. There is only 1 former winner that is not currently in the top 16 teams.  Yes it does all matter.  The same teams are still playing they just took out the smaller schools and gave them a chance at some glory.  So by that token I guess they are the only powerhouse.  Like I said what are you about 3?  Try this only read and never post. 

10yardfight

Quote from: Special Delivery Jones on September 14, 2007, 12:23:55 pm
It is the same dang thing.  The 7A has been around 1 year. There is only 1 former winner that is not currently in the top 16 teams.  Yes it does all matter.  The same teams are still playing they just took out the smaller schools and gave them a chance at some glory.  So by that token I guess they are the only powerhouse.  Like I said what are you about 3?  Try this only read and never post. 

I'm just a literal person.  When I say 7A, I mean 7A.  There is a difference.  If you don't understand my point, then it is you who should not post.  I think everyone knows 7A is not the same as 5A.

bulldogs1159

Quote from: 10yardfight on September 14, 2007, 12:36:01 pm
Quote from: Special Delivery Jones on September 14, 2007, 12:23:55 pm
It is the same dang thing.  The 7A has been around 1 year. There is only 1 former winner that is not currently in the top 16 teams.  Yes it does all matter.  The same teams are still playing they just took out the smaller schools and gave them a chance at some glory.  So by that token I guess they are the only powerhouse.  Like I said what are you about 3?  Try this only read and never post. 

I'm just a literal person.  When I say 7A, I mean 7A.  There is a difference.  If you don't understand my point, then it is you who should not post.  I think everyone knows 7A is not the same as 5A.
Holy hell son can you not read?

not ray

Quote from: 10yardfight on September 14, 2007, 12:36:01 pm
Quote from: Special Delivery Jones on September 14, 2007, 12:23:55 pm
It is the same dang thing.  The 7A has been around 1 year. There is only 1 former winner that is not currently in the top 16 teams.  Yes it does all matter.  The same teams are still playing they just took out the smaller schools and gave them a chance at some glory.  So by that token I guess they are the only powerhouse.  Like I said what are you about 3?  Try this only read and never post. 

I'm just a literal person.  When I say 7A, I mean 7A.  There is a difference.  If you don't understand my point, then it is you who should not post.  I think everyone knows 7A is not the same as 5A.
Quote from: 10yardfight on September 14, 2007, 12:36:01 pm
Quote from: Special Delivery Jones on September 14, 2007, 12:23:55 pm
It is the same dang thing.  The 7A has been around 1 year. There is only 1 former winner that is not currently in the top 16 teams.  Yes it does all matter.  The same teams are still playing they just took out the smaller schools and gave them a chance at some glory.  So by that token I guess they are the only powerhouse.  Like I said what are you about 3?  Try this only read and never post. 

I'm just a literal person.  When I say 7A, I mean 7A.  There is a difference.  If you don't understand my point, then it is you who should not post.  I think everyone knows 7A is not the same as 5A.

I am a fairly literal person myself.  Literally I can see that you have no idea what is going on.  To answer your question in 7A as it stands Southside is the power.  You cannot even remember what you posted earlier.  You run off at the mouth that they had not made the playoffs for 2 years and then did and that did not make them a powerhouse.  Yet when faced with 20 plus years of facts you decide that well that doesn't count.  What you should have done was quit before you started.  You are so far in over your head at this point that you have drowned.  Point is you show how little you know about what is going on by not knowing 7A has been existence for just one completed sentence. 

mack

Quote from: 10yardfight on September 14, 2007, 12:36:01 pm
Quote from: Special Delivery Jones on September 14, 2007, 12:23:55 pm
It is the same dang thing.  The 7A has been around 1 year. There is only 1 former winner that is not currently in the top 16 teams.  Yes it does all matter.  The same teams are still playing they just took out the smaller schools and gave them a chance at some glory.  So by that token I guess they are the only powerhouse.  Like I said what are you about 3?  Try this only read and never post. 

I'm just a literal person.  When I say 7A, I mean 7A.  There is a difference.  If you don't understand my point, then it is you who should not post.  I think everyone knows 7A is not the same as 5A.

Why don't you start a poll to see who of the current 7A members would be considered a "powerhouse" as you put it?  I can also give you the results in advance.  I don't think anyone who knows Arkansas HS football will disagree that historically, there are really only two..... Southside and Central.  To see it any other way is naive at best.  Egad,,, I just made myself sick ;D

Cabotfan

Quote from: 10yardfight on September 14, 2007, 12:17:55 pm
So how long has 7A been around?

1 year.

QuoteSouthside has ONE 7A state championship and 1 or 2 playoff appearances in 7A.  I am talking about powerhouses in 7A.  Pay more attention to what the post is about next time.  You can't count 5A stats in the newly created 7A conference.

So FSS is the ONLY powerhouse in 7A if you want to look at it in terms of state championships.

10yardfight

I take it people in these forums aren't to keen on sarcasm.

If anyone actually read my original post, it had nothing to do with Southside.  I never said in that first post that Southside was a bad team...the real purpose of this post is to point out what is already becoming clear.  It was a good idea to add new classifications in Arkansas.  I guess next time I should be more obvious and avoid subtlety.

7AFBFAN

10yard your mistake was putting Southside and Van Buren in the same sentence and talking like SS was not a powerhouse. I think to further your argument about the success the 7A is having so far this year against other classes there are plenty of other games you could have included. Fayetteville beat Batesville in week one. Springdale beat Alma last week. Rogers beat Marion. This week if Central can take care of business it solidifies the success the 7A is seeing this year.

bulldogs1159

Quote from: 10yardfight on September 14, 2007, 01:35:54 pm
I take it people in these forums aren't to keen on sarcasm.

If anyone actually read my original post, it had nothing to do with Southside.  I never said in that first post that Southside was a bad team...the real purpose of this post is to point out what is already becoming clear.  It was a good idea to add new classifications in Arkansas.  I guess next time I should be more obvious and avoid subtlety.
The ignorant has tried to tell us that this was all sarcasm. If anyone here believes that he really was being  sarcastic I have a bridge I would like to sell you.

mdoyle13

Quote from: 10yardfight on September 14, 2007, 12:36:01 pm
Quote from: Special Delivery Jones on September 14, 2007, 12:23:55 pm
It is the same dang thing.  The 7A has been around 1 year. There is only 1 former winner that is not currently in the top 16 teams.  Yes it does all matter.  The same teams are still playing they just took out the smaller schools and gave them a chance at some glory.  So by that token I guess they are the only powerhouse.  Like I said what are you about 3?  Try this only read and never post. 

I'm just a literal person.  When I say 7A, I mean 7A.  There is a difference.  If you don't understand my point, then it is you who should not post.  I think everyone knows 7A is not the same as 5A.

Since 1983, when the old AAAAA Conference was merged with Class AAAA and the full playoff structure was implemented, Southside has always been in the state's largest classisfication. And since then, Southside has won the most state championships with 7, followed by Pine Bluff with 4, LR Central with 3, and FS Northside, LR Catholic and Springdale with 2 each. I think that qualifies Southside as a powerhouse. And as ultracompetitive as the West Conference has been in that time (13 state titles by five different schools, an all-West final eight times), it shouldn't be too surprising if a team misses the playoffs on occasion. There are too many good teams in that conference for too few positions, as evidenced by the five times since 1983 that three of the four semifinalists came from the West.

I have no ties to Southside, but the numbers say that Southside has literally been the best over the past 25 years.

The_Bomb

To answer your question with a little bit more objectivity after reading it a little more closely, I do not think that the 7A schools are seperating themselves from the 5A schools.  The two 7A teams that you had in question, lost to the same 5A brethren last year (Greenwood beat Southside and Alma beat Van Buren)  I will join with S.D. Jones in saying that Southside has been a great program over the last 24 years.  It all started with Barry Lunney, Senior and Jeff Williams took the team over and has done a great job.  Van Buren has only had one great team in that time span and that was when they won the 5A Championship in 1996.  The Pointers have a great coach and the move next year to the 7A Traveling (Sarcasm here folks) Conference, should help them. But those long road trips to Conway, Little Rock, Cabot and Pine Bluff at some point will be brutal).  A lot of the schools have had traditions for many, many years, it's just that we now have six football playing classifications and seven for the rest in the state and to some people, it has diluted the state championships in all sports.  I disagree.  It has allowed some of the other schools in the state to finally get a taste of what a state title is like after having been in a classification with bigger schools for many years.

One final note and folks do correct me if I am wrong, when Van Buren won their Football Championship, they were one of the smallest schools in the classification at that time.   

not ray

Sarcasm my tail.  Ignorant without a doubt.

10yardfight

Last year Greenwood and Alma won by narrow margins.  This year Southside and Van Buren won by narrow margins.  I'm guessing that next year the margin will increase a little more.  Soon the 7A talent will be way beyond the 5A talent.
I could be wrong, but I think within 5 or 10 years 5A schools will not play 7A schools any more.

sprtsfan

Quote from: The_Bomb on September 14, 2007, 02:02:00 pm
To answer your question with a little bit more objectivity after reading it a little more closely, I do not think that the 7A schools are seperating themselves from the 5A schools.  The two 7A teams that you had in question, lost to the same 5A brethren last year (Greenwood beat Southside and Alma beat Van Buren)  I will join with S.D. Jones in saying that Southside has been a great program over the last 24 years.  It all started with Barry Lunney, Senior and Jeff Williams took the team over and has done a great job.  Van Buren has only had one great team in that time span and that was when they won the 5A Championship in 1996.  The Pointers have a great coach and the move next year to the 7A Traveling (Sarcasm here folks) Conference, should help them. But those long road trips to Conway, Little Rock, Cabot and Pine Bluff at some point will be brutal).  A lot of the schools have had traditions for many, many years, it's just that we now have six football playing classifications and seven for the rest in the state and to some people, it has diluted the state championships in all sports.  I disagree.  It has allowed some of the other schools in the state to finally get a taste of what a state title is like after having been in a classification with bigger schools for many years.

One final note and folks do correct me if I am wrong, when Van Buren won their Football Championship, they were one of the smallest schools in the classification at that time.   

I have great respect for Coach Lunney, Sr., but the Southside tradition started with Bob Gatling in the 1983 championship game.

10yardfight

This was the post I was being sarcastic on, for those of you who were too lazy to go back and read them all:

Quote from: 10yardfight on September 14, 2007, 12:17:55 pm
So how long has 7A been around?  Southside has ONE 7A state championship and 1 or 2 playoff appearances in 7A.  I am talking about powerhouses in 7A.  Pay more attention to what the post is about next time.  You can't count 5A stats in the newly created 7A conference.

/quote]

The other posts I was not being sarcastic on.  I shouldn't have to explain this, but obviously most of you didn't take the time to read what I actually said on this thread.

Don Quixote

Quote from: 10yardfight on September 14, 2007, 02:06:12 pm
Last year Greenwood and Alma won by narrow margins.  This year Southside and Van Buren won by narrow margins.  I'm guessing that next year the margin will increase a little more.  Soon the 7A talent will be way beyond the 5A talent.
I could be wrong, but I think within 5 or 10 years 5A schools will not play 7A schools any more.

For one thing SS and GW will not ever play again because SS dropped GW from their schedule.  I seriously don't think that the 5A will stop playing 7A teams because it is good practice for the regular season, FOR BOTH TEAMS.  Not just the little 5A teams.  Like someone said earlier on this thread, any team can beat another on any given night, you should know that "coach".  By the way, GO BACK TO OKLAHOMA, WHERE YOU BELONG.

30kfeet



Sarcasm..schmarcasm.  Quick, the thread is dieing.  Somebody please inject something really interesting...

10yardfight

Quote from: Razor Slayer on September 14, 2007, 02:18:08 pm
For one thing SS and GW will not ever play again because SS dropped GW from their schedule.  I seriously don't think that the 5A will stop playing 7A teams because it is good practice for the regular season, FOR BOTH TEAMS.  Not just the little 5A teams.  Like someone said earlier on this thread, any team can beat another on any given night, you should know that "coach".  By the way, GO BACK TO OKLAHOMA, WHERE YOU BELONG.

I still live there, I just don't work there this year.  But I'll be back there next year, and hopefully at a school that plays some Arkansas schools.

The_Bomb

Quote from: sprtsfan on September 14, 2007, 02:12:48 pm
Quote from: The_Bomb on September 14, 2007, 02:02:00 pm
To answer your question with a little bit more objectivity after reading it a little more closely, I do not think that the 7A schools are seperating themselves from the 5A schools.  The two 7A teams that you had in question, lost to the same 5A brethren last year (Greenwood beat Southside and Alma beat Van Buren)  I will join with S.D. Jones in saying that Southside has been a great program over the last 24 years.  It all started with Barry Lunney, Senior and Jeff Williams took the team over and has done a great job.  Van Buren has only had one great team in that time span and that was when they won the 5A Championship in 1996.  The Pointers have a great coach and the move next year to the 7A Traveling (Sarcasm here folks) Conference, should help them. But those long road trips to Conway, Little Rock, Cabot and Pine Bluff at some point will be brutal).  A lot of the schools have had traditions for many, many years, it's just that we now have six football playing classifications and seven for the rest in the state and to some people, it has diluted the state championships in all sports.  I disagree.  It has allowed some of the other schools in the state to finally get a taste of what a state title is like after having been in a classification with bigger schools for many years.

One final note and folks do correct me if I am wrong, when Van Buren won their Football Championship, they were one of the smallest schools in the classification at that time.   

I have great respect for Coach Lunney, Sr., but the Southside tradition started with Bob Gatling in the 1983 championship game.


Thanks for reminding me about Coach Gatling. He was one of the best this state ever had.

bulldogs1159

Quote from: 10yardfight on September 14, 2007, 02:13:21 pm
This was the post I was being sarcastic on, for those of you who were too lazy to go back and read them all:

Quote from: 10yardfight on September 14, 2007, 12:17:55 pm
So how long has 7A been around?  Southside has ONE 7A state championship and 1 or 2 playoff appearances in 7A.  I am talking about powerhouses in 7A.  Pay more attention to what the post is about next time.  You can't count 5A stats in the newly created 7A conference.

/quote]

The other posts I was not being sarcastic on.  I shouldn't have to explain this, but obviously most of you didn't take the time to read what I actually said on this thread.
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