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Top 10 Polls

Started by redsport27, March 19, 2019, 11:50:00 pm

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redsport27

March 19, 2019, 11:50:00 pm Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 09:48:16 am by redsport27
I know we are already into the season but I have decided to do a poll for 5a boys and girls. Feel free to do your own poll and this doesn't have to be limited to 5a.


5a Girls:
1. LRCA (West)
2. Searcy (East)
3. Greenbrier (West)
4. Russellville (West)
5. Benton (South)
6. Siloam Springs (West)
7. Greenwood (West)
8. El Dorado (South)
9. Maumelle (Central)
10. Vilonia (West)

5a Boys:
1. Jonesboro (East)
2. Russellville (West)
3. Mountain Home (East)
4. Greenbrier (West)
5. LRCA (West)
6. Hot Springs (South)
7. Siloam Springs (West)
8. Sylvan Hills (Central)
9. Benton (South)
10. Searcy (East)

This was difficult to do since 5a and 6a merged. I looked at records and schedules, but I really went off of just who I felt belonged where. So bring on your thoughts and polls!

ArkansasSportsFan

Jonesboro has to prove themselves against teams like Russellville and Siloam Springs. Nettleton isn't top 10 in my opinion. I feel like Benton and SS should be higher.

redsport27

Quote from: ArkansasSportsFan on March 20, 2019, 09:27:56 am
Jonesboro has to prove themselves against teams like Russellville and Siloam Springs. Nettleton isn't top 10 in my opinion. I feel like Benton and SS should be higher.
Those are valid points. I do agree that Nettleton may need some work before they are recognized as Top 10. I know Searcy got off to a slow start but I bet they will make a run soon, so I put them at the 10 spot.

sevenof400

March 20, 2019, 02:28:45 pm #3 Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 02:33:10 pm by sevenof400
One of the old issues about Ark HS soccer is going to reappear once again this year.  Teams that play in less than competitive conferences are going to be at a disadvantage come state playoff time.  We've seen this before in the 5A and even with the combined 5A/6A this phenomena is still in play.

Both the Searcy and Maumelle girls are going to be between a rock and a hard place as conference play continues.  I expect both of them to win their conference but will they be able to step up their play when they face teams who have played in better competition conferences all year?

FYI: 1st round matchups this year are
East vs South
West vs Central

futbolsoccer

Obviously this is base on their record, but needs to see who they played.
Benton had the most difficult schedule to start the season, followed by Russellville, he only competition Searcy have in their conference is MH.
Benton have the same issue, not much competition i their conference, west is just brutal, hard to even give positions, lets just eait and see what happens in the end.
I believe MH is better than El Dorado or Maumelle.

ArkansasSportsFan

Quote from: futbolsoccer on March 20, 2019, 05:49:27 pm
Obviously this is base on their record, but needs to see who they played.
Benton had the most difficult schedule to start the season, followed by Russellville, he only competition Searcy have in their conference is MH.
Benton have the same issue, not much competition i their conference, west is just brutal, hard to even give positions, lets just eait and see what happens in the end.
I believe MH is better than El Dorado or Maumelle.

We talking girls here?

futbolsoccer


hurricanes1

I'm looking forward to the Jonesboro-Mountain Home game next week.  So far, the Hurricanes have not had much competition. I hope this game is better.

Buck183

Quote from: redsport27 on March 19, 2019, 11:50:00 pm
I know we are already into the season but I have decided to do a poll for 5a boys and girls. Feel free to do your own poll and this doesn't have to be limited to 5a.


5a Girls:
1. LRCA (West)
2. Searcy (East)
3. Greenbrier (West)
4. Russellville (West)
5. Benton (South)
6. Siloam Springs (West)
7. Greenwood (West)
8. El Dorado (South)
9. Maumelle (Central)
10. Vilonia (West)

5a Boys:
1. Jonesboro (East)
2. Russellville (West)
3. Mountain Home (East)
4. Greenbrier (West)
5. LRCA (West)
6. Hot Springs (South)
7. Siloam Springs (West)
8. Sylvan Hills (Central)
9. Benton (South)
10. Searcy (East)

This was difficult to do since 5a and 6a merged. I looked at records and schedules, but I really went off of just who I felt belonged where. So bring on your thoughts and polls!

Did the Searcy girls get a whole new team this year?  I watched them play in the semi final game of the playoffs last year.  They were way over ranked going into that game.

hurricanes1

Quote from: Buck183 on March 20, 2019, 09:27:11 pm
Did the Searcy girls get a whole new team this year?  I watched them play in the semi final game of the playoffs last year.  They were way over ranked going into that game.

I was able to watch them earlier this month. I'm not familiar with the team
this year vs last year, but they did appear young and inexperienced. They play very rough with not a lot of technical skill. They crushed Jonesboro's girls, but that's not saying much. I was surprised to see Searcy beat Mountain Home. I thought MH was going to have a solid team this year. I read in the paper that Valley view girls beat Searcy last week. Valley View beat our girls easily too.  My only guess on ranking is that the rest of the teams in the conference are really bad.   It probably does matter much though. Little Rock Christian should run away with this classification, especially since PA dropped to 4A.

LionKing

They now have 12 freshmen that play for the FC Dallas Central Arkansas club team and got 2 transfers from other schools.  So 14 new players this year.
The team is a lot different than last year.  They might not win it all but they will be very competitive.  They are young and still learning to play together with the upper classman.  They also played some really good teams in non conference play knowing about the teams in the East.  It is what it is.  Can't do much about the conference alignments.         

WillC

Here is the Maxpreps Top Ten (boys), which I would take with a grain of salt. Just thought I'd mention it.

1. Mountain Home
2. Rogers
3. Greenbrier
4. Arkadelphia
5. Jonesboro
6. Siloam Springs
7. Harrison
8. Russellville
9. Bentonville West
10. Green Forest (!)

A few others for consideration: Springdale (by far the best I've seen personally), De Queen (light schedule, outlier loss to Gurdon), Van Buren (lost a few heartbreakers to solid teams, otherwise taking care of business). LRCA and Bentonville probably deserve a shout as well.

Sir Alex

Quote from: WillC on March 21, 2019, 01:38:04 am
Here is the Maxpreps Top Ten (boys), which I would take with a grain of salt. Just thought I'd mention it.

1. Mountain Home
2. Rogers
3. Greenbrier
4. Arkadelphia
5. Jonesboro
6. Siloam Springs
7. Harrison
8. Russellville
9. Bentonville West
10. Green Forest (!)

A few others for consideration: Springdale (by far the best I've seen personally), De Queen (light schedule, outlier loss to Gurdon), Van Buren (lost a few heartbreakers to solid teams, otherwise taking care of business). LRCA and Bentonville probably deserve a shout as well.

A very small grain.

sssuperpantherfan2

The 5a West for the girls is brutal with 5-6 good teams.  I believe Benton to be a top 5 team but not so sure about Searcy.

Buck183

March 21, 2019, 02:58:56 pm #14 Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 03:01:17 pm by Buck183
Quote from: hurricanes1 on March 20, 2019, 10:01:17 pm
I was able to watch them earlier this month. I'm not familiar with the team
this year vs last year, but they did appear young and inexperienced. They play very rough with not a lot of technical skill. They crushed Jonesboro's girls, but that's not saying much. I was surprised to see Searcy beat Mountain Home. I thought MH was going to have a solid team this year. I read in the paper that Valley view girls beat Searcy last week. Valley View beat our girls easily too.  My only guess on ranking is that the rest of the teams in the conference are really bad.   It probably does matter much though. Little Rock Christian should run away with this classification, especially since PA dropped to 4A.

All very good points.  Have to play the conference one is given.  Can't do anything about that. 

I didn't mean to come across as brash in my original reply.  I just remember watching them play the Siloam girls in the semis last year.  I expected more competition from a conference champion team. 

hurricanes1

Quote from: Buck183 on March 21, 2019, 02:58:56 pm
All very good points.  Have to play the conference one is given.  Can't do anything about that. 

I didn't mean to come across as brash in my original reply.  I just remember watching them play the Siloam girls in the semis last year.  I expected more competition from a conference champion team.

I didn't think your comments or questions were brash at all.  Searcy has a good history for soccer.  This just may be a rebuilding year for them.

LionKing

No Problem.  Last year they did not win the conference or the conference tournament.  M.H. did.

I do agree the west is the best top to bottom.  I wished we were in it.

hurricanes1

Quote from: LionKing on March 20, 2019, 10:27:21 pm
They now have 12 freshmen that play for the FC Dallas Central Arkansas club team and got 2 transfers from other schools.  So 14 new players this year.         


Any idea why this club didn't move to the Arkansas Premier Clubs with the other larger AR clubs? There are several kids from my town and surrounding areas who were going to try out for them until they found out this club wasn't moving up and couldn't provide more competitive play. These kids ended up either staying in Jonesboro for the local club team since it would be so similar or for better teams, they went to Arkansas United and Real Arkansas.

LionKing

Not sure exactly why.  I think they should have.  Our team tried to play in more tournaments to make up for the weaker competition in the state league.  I know we do have some good Jonesboro players playing with FCDCA.

pantherdad

As far as the girls go, I think Benton should be much higher than fifth. We have played an extremely tough preseason, we've played a little uneven at times. But we only lost 1-0 to Bryant and tied Conway. Yes we lost to Greenbrier, but we missed several chances to score

Buck183

Quote from: hurricanes1 on March 21, 2019, 04:00:25 pm
I didn't think your comments or questions were brash at all.  Searcy has a good history for soccer.  This just may be a rebuilding year for them.

You make a valid point, they have had some great history in their program.

Buck183

Quote from: pantherdad on March 21, 2019, 06:41:08 pm
As far as the girls go, I think Benton should be much higher than fifth. We have played an extremely tough preseason, we've played a little uneven at times. But we only lost 1-0 to Bryant and tied Conway. Yes we lost to Greenbrier, but we missed several chances to score

+1

Ranger20

For a number of reasons, a much stronger soccer culture has developed in NWA than the rest of the state. One of those reasons that makes a significant impact is the soccer experience of the coach. It seems like a good majority of the NWA schools have true soccer coaches while the rest just plug-in whoever is available. They can be wonderful people who care and want to compete but simply don't know how or what to pay attention to when training their team and players. It would be interesting to compare the performance of schools with genuine soccer coaches vs those without.

chandler

Quote from: Ranger20 on March 23, 2019, 10:08:18 am
For a number of reasons, a much stronger soccer culture has developed in NWA than the rest of the state. One of those reasons that makes a significant impact is the soccer experience of the coach. It seems like a good majority of the NWA schools have true soccer coaches while the rest just plug-in whoever is available. They can be wonderful people who care and want to compete but simply don't know how or what to pay attention to when training their team and players. It would be interesting to compare the performance of schools with genuine soccer coaches vs those without.

That would definitely be an interesting comparison. You would need to define what qualifies as a "genuine" coach. Depending on your definition you might find a lot of coaches that don't fit that definition have had a great deal of success (i.e. Bryan Hardaway at Dardanelle and Steve Peck at Rogers). I think the most important factor for success is the athletes themselves. Pair a credible coach that is willing to learn the strategies of a new sport, with a talented group of players and that team will consistently be competing for state titles.

Ranger20

You make a good point, Chandler, that you would certainly have to control for the number of club players, relative experience, and classification. I know some schools success has been far more attributable to the players knowledge, skills & abilities than the coach.

futbolsoccer

Quote from: Ranger20 on March 23, 2019, 02:12:41 pm
You make a good point, Chandler, that you would certainly have to control for the number of club players, relative experience, and classification. I know some schools success has been far more attributable to the players knowledge, skills & abilities than the coach.


Absolutely!
Consistency is what will prove a good coaching in HS, for personal experience many talented players do not succeed in HS because of the coaching, i wish HS coaches can be more humble, and linten to club coaches who know and have passion for the game.

frotator888

Since no one else has really mentioned it but it needs to be mentioned ... what the heck is going on with Arkadelphia this year?? A hugely successful 6-0 start to the season with comfortable wins against Warren, CAC, and Gurdon, is this the best team they've ever had? Their start doesn't seem to be a fluke whatsoever!

Sir Alex

Quote from: frotator888 on March 23, 2019, 08:42:26 pm
Since no one else has really mentioned it but it needs to be mentioned ... what the heck is going on with Arkadelphia this year?? A hugely successful 6-0 start to the season with comfortable wins against Warren, CAC, and Gurdon, is this the best team they've ever had? Their start doesn't seem to be a fluke whatsoever!

I believe that they have PA, DeQueen, Robinson and Hope still to play during their conference season.  Time will tell but their best team ever made the semifinals back in the day and had a keeper named Osmond (I believe that is correct). 

WillC

Quote from: futbolsoccer on March 23, 2019, 02:25:56 pm

Absolutely!
Consistency is what will prove a good coaching in HS, for personal experience many talented players do not succeed in HS because of the coaching, i wish HS coaches can be more humble, and linten to club coaches who know and have passion for the game.

I honestly think talent level is generally the biggest factor in separating teams, but coaching can have a huge effect as well. That being said, I don't particularly blame high school coaches for not taking unsolicited advice from club coaches. I obviously think that they have a responsibility to learn and grow, but that should go hand-in-hand with the freedom to run their program as they see fit.

fourfourtwo

Quote from: redsport27 on March 19, 2019, 11:50:00 pm
I know we are already into the season but I have decided to do a poll for 5a boys and girls. Feel free to do your own poll and this doesn't have to be limited to 5a.


5a Girls:
1. LRCA (West)
2. Searcy (East)
3. Greenbrier (West)
4. Russellville (West)
5. Benton (South)
6. Siloam Springs (West)
7. Greenwood (West)
8. El Dorado (South)
9. Maumelle (Central)
10. Vilonia (West)

5a Boys:
1. Jonesboro (East)
2. Russellville (West)
3. Mountain Home (East)
4. Greenbrier (West)
5. LRCA (West)
6. Hot Springs (South)
7. Siloam Springs (West)
8. Sylvan Hills (Central)
9. Benton (South)
10. Searcy (East)

The biggest problem with how playoffs are done in Ark, is how teams are selected for the playoffs.  Teams on the above list will miss the playoffs. The best 16 teams will not be going to the playoffs since each conference puts 4 teams in. 
Conferences are not equal in the quality of their teams.   The best conference in 5A girls is undeniably, from top to bottom, the 5A West.   Two teams that should make the playoffs will miss the playoffs in that conference.
The 5A State playoffs will have teams with losing records qualify for the playoffs above teams with winning records and ranked considerably higher on Max Preps. 
There must be changes made to this faulty selection method.

VHSCoach2

^^^

Yep. There should be a required post-season meeting with all 5A coaches. Rank the 16 best teams from 1-16, based on agreed upon parameters, and set it up like the NCAA tournament. 1v16, 2v15, etc. At least then we (probably) wouldn't have scorelines like 9-0 in playoff games.

Sir Alex

Ok, so what exactly would you suggest for parameters? 

WillC

Quote from: Sir Alex on March 29, 2019, 09:02:07 pm
Ok, so what exactly would you suggest for parameters?

I would divide the teams up by geography, and have everyone play each other in their group to decide who goes to the tournament.

Sir Alex

Quote from: WillC on March 29, 2019, 09:30:16 pm
I would divide the teams up by geography, and have everyone play each other in their group to decide who goes to the tournament.

Sounds like what they currently do.

WillC

Quote from: Sir Alex on March 29, 2019, 10:09:03 pm
Sounds like what they currently do.

It is, and I'm all for it, even if good teams get left at home. Winning and losing, not debating, are what settle athletic competition, and unless you want all 32 5A teams to play each other, conferences are the way to go. IMHO, having coaches decide amongst themselves who gets to the postseason is a recipe for disaster. Way too political for me.

sssuperpantherfan2

If they took the top 6 teams from each conference it would be better for the state tournament.  Start the season a little earlier to get the extra games in.

sevenof400

If you stop to consider it, having all 32 teams enter the state playoffs only means adding one more playing date to the playoffs. 
As currently constructed, four playing dates are required to reduce 16 teams to identify the state champion.
Why not add one more day AND rethink the state playoff calendar a bit? 

Playing three games in three days is NOT the best for the players. 
However, let's move this to a different thread...

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