Your Top 10 NBA Players of All-Time

[cuckoobird]

Half the NBA - Jordan could really jump high and run for his time.

you're wrong on this one and it doesn't make them better players

[Valleysports]

Half the NBA - Jordan could really jump high and run for his time.

you're wrong on this one and it doesn't make them better players

Two players of equal skill - one is bigger, faster, stronger - no brainer.  Athlete's continue to evolve physically for whatever reason, weights, nutrition, facilities, AAU, genetics - basketball is not the exception to the rule, just because y'all want it to be.  Ha ha

[RATTLER43]

Half the NBA - Jordan could really jump high and run for his time.

You're funny.

[RATTLER43]

Two players of equal skill - one is bigger, faster, stronger - no brainer.  Athlete's continue to evolve physically for whatever reason, weights, nutrition, facilities, AAU, genetics - basketball is not the exception to the rule, just because y'all want it to be.  Ha ha

This is one reason that Lebron is not the goat.  He is bigger and stronger yet doesn't seem to always want to use that advantage. He settles for lesser shots when he undoubtedly could have driven or posted up for a better shot or to force the defenders to foul or even draw double team to get better shots yet he will dribble for 9 seconds to shoot a 25 footer at end of shot clock.   He lacks certain intangibles that many of the others that lack his athleticism possessed. He can fill a stat sheet like no other and still loses.  He will still defer or settle when games are on the line. Look at final minutes of games 1, 4, 5, and 6 of this finals.  His stats are awesome (except fg %) yet he either defers, disappears, or misses with games on the line.  He is an awesome player but not goat. 

On average athletes appear to be stronger and faster. But among elite athletes that is not necessarily the case.

Surely you have seen athletes with same or even lesser athleticism and/or skills defeat athletes with more.  Intangibles play a huge role in outcomes. Drive, IQ, awareness, willingness to put it on the line, grace under pressure, etc. play such important parts in success. 

Lebron is great but I would take MJ, Kareem, Magic, Bird, or Kobe ahead of him.   

[Hootie]

LeBron is the best athlete the NBA has ever seen in my opinion.

[cuckoobird]

LeBron is the best athlete the NBA has ever seen in my opinion.

Isn't the term athlete used for those players recruited by colleges to play football but never see the field on anything but special teams?

[Valleysports]

Rattler I have to agree with 80% of that last post - he could've won game 1, if he'd driven to the basket instead of settling for that unnecessary fade away 3 point attempt.  However, he didn't shy away from it - just missed!  Can we agree - LeBron is the most critiqued player on the planet?

[Valleysports]

Anyone remember the endless debates over weather LeBron or Carmelo was the best Rookie, coming into the league?

[RATTLER43]

Rattler I have to agree with 80% of that last post - he could've won game 1, if he'd driven to the basket instead of settling for that unnecessary fade away 3 point attempt.  However, he didn't shy away from it - just missed!  Can we agree - LeBron is the most critiqued player on the planet?

Yes.  I also believe he is the best player and athlete right now and it's not even close. KD, Westbrook, Curry, Hardin, etc. are tremendous athletes and aren't even close to Lebron.   But very few athletes in all of sports combine elite athleticism, elite skills, elite leadership, and elite drive plus those intangibles of which I speak.   MJ, Joe Montana, Roger Staubach, Bill Russell, Wayne Gretzky are in that upper echelon that is so rare.  it is really the only reason that I place Kobe, Bird, and Magic above Lebron. 

[Hootie]

LeBron is the best athlete the NBA has ever seen in my opinion.

Isn't the term athlete used for those players recruited by colleges to play football but never see the field on anything but special teams?

Why yes it is!!

[Valleysports]

But Kobe is a Drama Queen Rapist, who can't get along with teammates, ex Shaq. Phil Jackson said he was a disruptive handful.  Is he a leader or just a talented pre-Madonna basketball player, who thinks he's entitled?  I call him done two years ago - he is done right?

[Hootie]

Yeah he's been done and yet he still makes the highest NBA salary per year. I'd say he has a heck of an agent.

[RATTLER43]

But Kobe is a Drama Queen Rapist, who can't get along with teammates, ex Shaq. Phil Jackson said he was a disruptive handful.  Is he a leader or just a talented pre-Madonna basketball player, who thinks he's entitled?  I call him done two years ago - he is done right?

Leader and probably all the other things you mentioned.

[HorseFeathers]

[beach bum]

Anyone remember the endless debates over weather LeBron or Carmelo was the best Rookie, coming into the league?

I always laugh thinking about the Nuggets dumping Melo and still getting the 3 seed a few years back in the West without him.

[Lionheart88]

+1

[RATTLER43]

It is that time again.   Duncan and Lebron each have a great chance at another title and possibly moving up the list. Wade and Dirk move up the lists.  Who else do you have on your lists?   

1. Michael Jordan - greatest all around player ever. By year 5, he had no weaknesses; even his 3-pt. shot had gotten good. His mid-range jumper and baseline post up fade-away was soooooo good.

1B. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - had he been a media darling instead of rubbing every sportswriter the wrong way he would be at the top of every list; he was the most dominating player ever. I put MJ over him because MJ could create his own shot.  Kareem needed a guard to get him the ball. Kareem was the best on both ends of the floor for 10 seasons. Even Wilt had to have help guarding him. First time in his career that he asked for help on a player. Kareem was unstoppable once he got the ball.

3. Magic Johnson  and Larry Bird are interchangeable. I put Magic at 3 because he won more titles than Larry Bird. Otherwise, you could put either of them at 3. Magic was so diverse at 6'9" PG. He would post up smaller PGs and developed outside shot and could go by the larger ones. His leadership was intangible that puts him at top of PG list. He was great in transition.

3B. Larry Bird - skills were unreal and he was so clutch. His determination equalled Magic's and MJ's. Bird seemed to think the game so that he knew what he and all others on the floor on both teams were going to do before they even did it. On multiple occasions I have watched a sequence where he knew he could not get the offensive rebound but knew where the rebounder would put the ball after securing; then Bird would steal it and throw to a spot on the floor where he knew his teammate would be without even looking leading to an easy score.

5. Kobe Bryant - such a  fundamental player. Great athlete early; great player later. His offensive weapons are so numerous. Can score from any place on floor.

6.  Lebron James - greatest physical specimen the game has seen; but....some chinks are in the armor. Disappeared late in big games early in career. Defers or settles when he can just force his way to a better possession. But he also can absolutely carry a team. I think his skill plus athleticism has potential to be at the top of this list. Win a few more titles and it may happen. If he wins one more he moves up in the rare air with Bird and Magic in my opinion.

7.  Tim Duncan - I actually would take Tim over Wilt or Russell but it may be because they were before my time. I tried to leave my personal bias out and going by the numbers and my readings about them I allowed them to be placed accordingly. Tim was great at every phase of the post game and his bank shot from 17 feet was so tough on big slow power forwards trying to defend him. His footwork and defensive presence are so underappreciated. Just think if his nearly last second shot that Derek Fisher answered had been the game-winner and they had gone on to win....

7b.  Bill Russell - greatest champion ever. Defensive stalwart; great passer and ferocious defender. Offense had some chinks in it but you can't argue 11 titles.

8.  Shaq - most unstoppable  player ever. I really think he could have shot free shots on nearly every possession in his first 10 seasons(of course he would have missed most of them.). His lack of all-around game and atrocious free shot shooting move him down the list.

9.  Wilt Chamberlain - greatest scorer ever- period. Free shot shooting moves him down the list.

10.  Dr. J  His NBA career numbers do not do this great one justice. If you add his ABA days when he was at his athletic best he might be as high as #3.  By the time I got to watch him he was still great but not scoring at will above everybody any time he wanted. He was still the most athletic and gifted scorer in mid and late 70s. I have watched video of him while in ABA and I believe all those stories. 4 championships plus lost in 3 finals; 4 MVPs.   

10B. Oscar Robertson  Averaging basically a triple double over 5 seasons and helping Kareem to first title are just the tip of this iceberg.

[Legend]

Jordan is the best of all time
Jordan
Magic
Bird
Wilt
James
Curry
Kareem
Shaq
Duncan

[Longfellow]

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Wilt
Jerry West
Oscar Robertson
Kareem
Pete Maravich
Shaq
Dr. J

[RATTLER43]

Good lists.  Curry will have to perform at this level for years to get on my list but he is well on his way. 

[Legend]

Rattler I have to agree with 80% of that last post - he could've won game 1, if he'd driven to the basket instead of settling for that unnecessary fade away 3 point attempt.  However, he didn't shy away from it - just missed!  Can we agree - LeBron is the most critiqued player on the planet?

Yes.  I also believe he is the best player and athlete right now and it's not even close. KD, Westbrook, Curry, Hardin, etc. are tremendous athletes and aren't even close to Lebron.   But very few athletes in all of sports combine elite athleticism, elite skills, elite leadership, and elite drive plus those intangibles of which I speak.   MJ, Joe Montana, Roger Staubach, Bill Russell, Wayne Gretzky are in that upper echelon that is so rare.  it is really the only reason that I place Kobe, Bird, and Magic above Lebron. 

Le Bron has been watched by many since he was in HS. They labeled him the 2nd coming before he even graduated high school. He has been scrutinized for every play he does. Withtechnology and social media craze now days its unreal. If Jordan would have played in the same era would they have treated him the same way?

[RATTLER43]

Jordan had his detractors early on.  But breaking through and winning 6 titles ended it.  He poured in 63 on a great Celtics team in playoff loss during those early years to end a lot of the hate. He hit last second game-winning shots in playoffs even before the titles.  I was around when the masses still had Bird, Magic, Dr. J, Kareem, and others ahead of Jordan as an all-time great.  He just kept proving himself.   Taking the beatings from the Detroit teams and still performing won over a lot of haters as well. 

[RATTLER43]

I actually think MJ would have embraced as much coverage as possible.   It didn't happen until freshman year at NC but he was under microscope from then on.   Hit game-winner in NCAA championship!   

[RATTLER43]

I just watched Kareem:  Minority of One.   Media scrutiny from 8th grade on.  But when I hear Jerry West, Larry Bird, Magic, Dr. J, Bill Walton, John Wooden, and such describe Kareem as the greatest and completely unstoppable I go back to thinking he may be the greatest.  But he even said it:  someone had to get him the ball. Even so he constantly scored against quadruple teaming and against defenses completely designed to stop him.   Just wow.   

[Legend]

Where would Bill Walton and Pippen be on top 25 list

[Longfellow]

Pippen I would have in the top 15. Walton I'm not sure on. In his prime, healthy, he's one of the greats. I think I could find a spot in my to 25 for him

[Hootie]

Where would Bill Walton and Pippen be on top 25 list

Pippen I have at 12. Walton would be in the low 20s.

[RATTLER43]

Pippin 26; Walton 34.

[RATTLER43]

My #5 bows out with 60.

[RATTLER43]

Looks like my #7 is close to bowing out.  Looked old in that series vs OKC.

[Longfellow]

I don't think anyone would blame him if he leaves. He's had a great career and is a champion in every sense of the word

[RATTLER43]

Agreed.....about everything you said about him.

[BigMan15]

My Top Ten

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Shaq
4. Hakeem
5. Wilt
6. Bird
7. Dr. J
8. James
9. Jerry West
10. Dirk

[MDXPHD]

Jordan is the best of all time
Jordan
Magic
Bird
Wilt
James
Curry
Kareem
Shaq
Duncan

My Top Ten

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Shaq
4. Hakeem
5. Wilt
6. Bird
7. Dr. J
8. James
9. Jerry West
10. Dirk

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Wilt
Jerry West
Oscar Robertson
Kareem
Pete Maravich
Shaq
Dr. J

where is kobe?

[bleudog]

where is kobe?

Third on this list:  http://espn.go.com/nba/history/leaders

[MDXPHD]

Third on this list:  http://espn.go.com/nba/history/leaders

I don't understand how he doesn't make people's top ten.

[Longfellow]

I was just being biased. I don't like Kobe. I'll redo my list. Less bias this time (maybe). I'll also do a top 5 positional list

Point Guard
1. Magic
2. Jerry West
3. Oscar Robertson
4. Gary Payton
5. Isiah Thomas

Shooting Guard
1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. Clyde Drexler
4. Dwyane Wade
5. Pete Maravich

Small Forward
1. Bird
2. Elgin Baylor
3. Scottie Pippen
4. Dr. J
5. Lebron

Power Forward
1. Tim Duncan
2. Kevin Mchale
3. Karl Malone
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Elvin Hayes

Center
1. Kareem
2. Wilt
3. Russell
4. Shaq
5. David Robinson

All-time
1. Jordan
2. Bird
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Wilt
6. Elgin Baylor
7. Kobe
8. Russell
9. Jerry West
10. Shaq

[RATTLER43]

I don't understand how he doesn't make people's top ten.

He made mine:

Quote from: RATTLER43 on June 17, 2015, 09:26:53 am
 


1. Michael Jordan - greatest all around player ever. By year 5, he had no weaknesses; even his 3-pt. shot had gotten good. His mid-range jumper and baseline post up fade-away was soooooo good.

1B. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - had he been a media darling instead of rubbing every sportswriter the wrong way he would be at the top of every list; he was the most dominating player ever. I put MJ over him because MJ could create his own shot.  Kareem needed a guard to get him the ball. Kareem was the best on both ends of the floor for 10 seasons. Even Wilt had to have help guarding him. First time in his career that he asked for help on a player. Kareem was unstoppable once he got the ball.

3. Magic Johnson  and Larry Bird are interchangeable. I put Magic at 3 because he won more titles than Larry Bird. Otherwise, you could put either of them at 3. Magic was so diverse at 6'9" PG. He would post up smaller PGs and developed outside shot and could go by the larger ones. His leadership was intangible that puts him at top of PG list. He was great in transition.

3B. Larry Bird - skills were unreal and he was so clutch. His determination equalled Magic's and MJ's. Bird seemed to think the game so that he knew what he and all others on the floor on both teams were going to do before they even did it. On multiple occasions I have watched a sequence where he knew he could not get the offensive rebound but knew where the rebounder would put the ball after securing; then Bird would steal it and throw to a spot on the floor where he knew his teammate would be without even looking leading to an easy score.

5. Kobe Bryant - such a  fundamental player. Great athlete early; great player later. His offensive weapons are so numerous. Can score from any place on floor.

6.  Lebron James - greatest physical specimen the game has seen; but....some chinks are in the armor. Disappeared late in big games early in career. Defers or settles when he can just force his way to a better possession. But he also can absolutely carry a team. I think his skill plus athleticism has potential to be at the top of this list. Win a few more titles and it may happen. If he wins one more he moves up in the rare air with Bird and Magic in my opinion.

7.  Tim Duncan - I actually would take Tim over Wilt or Russell but it may be because they were before my time. I tried to leave my personal bias out and going by the numbers and my readings about them I allowed them to be placed accordingly. Tim was great at every phase of the post game and his bank shot from 17 feet was so tough on big slow power forwards trying to defend him. His footwork and defensive presence are so underappreciated. Just think if his nearly last second shot that Derek Fisher answered had been the game-winner and they had gone on to win....

7b.  Bill Russell - greatest champion ever. Defensive stalwart; great passer and ferocious defender. Offense had some chinks in it but you can't argue 11 titles.

8.  Shaq - most unstoppable  player ever. I really think he could have shot free shots on nearly every possession in his first 10 seasons(of course he would have missed most of them.). His lack of all-around game and atrocious free shot shooting move him down the list.

9.  Wilt Chamberlain - greatest scorer ever- period. Free shot shooting moves him down the list.

10.  Dr. J  His NBA career numbers do not do this great one justice. If you add his ABA days when he was at his athletic best he might be as high as #3.  By the time I got to watch him he was still great but not scoring at will above everybody any time he wanted. He was still the most athletic and gifted scorer in mid and late 70s. I have watched video of him while in ABA and I believe all those stories. 4 championships plus lost in 3 finals; 4 MVPs.   

10B. Oscar Robertson  Averaging basically a triple double over 5 seasons and helping Kareem to first title are just the tip of this iceberg.

[Lionheart88]

I was just being biased. I don't like Kobe. I'll redo my list. Less bias this time (maybe). I'll also do a top 5 positional list

Point Guard
1. Magic
2. Jerry West
3. Oscar Robertson
4. Gary Payton
5. Isiah Thomas

Shooting Guard
1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. Clyde Drexler
4. Dwyane Wade
5. Pete Maravich

Small Forward
1. Bird
2. Elgin Baylor
3. Scottie Pippen
4. Dr. J
5. Lebron

Power Forward
1. Tim Duncan
2. Kevin Mchale
3. Karl Malone
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Elvin Hayes

Center
1. Kareem
2. Wilt
3. Russell
4. Shaq
5. David Robinson

All-time
1. Jordan
2. Bird
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Wilt
6. Elgin Baylor
7. Kobe
8. Russell
9. Jerry West
10. Shaq

No one way is Dwayne Wade a better SG than Pistol Pete.  Maravich is #3 at worst.  I might put him above Kobe.

[mtindian42]

I think it goes beyond the game of basketball as to why he is not on a lot of the top 10 list. Jmo

[MDXPHD]

I think it goes beyond the game of basketball as to why he is not on a lot of the top 10 list. Jmo

Maybe, but I don't think beyond the game of basketball should change the rankings of how you play the sport lol.

[Longfellow]

I put Wade ahead of Maravich based on his defensive ability. Prior to his knees really slowing him down, Wade was arguably the best two-way shooting guard in the league. Maravich wasn't a great defender in the NBA. If this was only a question of offense, Maravich is second in my opinion. If he had the benefit of a three point line, he would've been one of the best three point shooters ever. Wade has been able to be a premier scorer without ever having a reliable jump shot.

[mtindian42]

You have to take notice of what lebron is doing. He is about to play in his 6th straight finals! 🏀🏀🏀🏀🏀🏀

Jordan is well deserving of the top spot. Lebron is a better all around player then Jordan. He dose more stat wise then Jordan did.

He has done more with less then any guy in nba history.

Clutch: Jordan
Ast: lebron
Reb: lebron
Def: Jordan
Guard multiple positions: lebron
Court vision: lebron
Do more with less: lebron
Rings : Jordan

Rings will win out the debate I get that. But ask yourself this how many nba rings do I have? If it was easy everyone would be doing it.

The ones who criticizes the most have never did what they are criticizing others for. -Allen russell-

If you base it off rings alone that would mean Robert horry is better then MJ (7) we all know that's not the case...but the evidence says 7 is greater then 6.

Just as if you base this off talent alone the evidence says lebron is better.

That's my case for James  vs Jordan

Any cross examiners?

[Lionheart88]

Look at the competition.  Who in the East is going to beat James?  If he were playing in the West, he wouldn't have been to 6 straight.  No way.  The same applies to Jordan comparisons.  The top talent in the league is probably about as good as it ever was, but the depth isn't what it used to be.  Jordan had a lot more competition for those rings.

Then there's the rule changes.  Comparing a guy from the 80s-90s to one from the 00s-10s is kind of like comparing lemons and limes.  Sure, there's a lot of similarities, but there's some important differences too.  How would Lebron have played in that era?  Would the physicality of guys like Barkley have taken a toll on him?  What about Jordan?  In the modern game, would he be even more dominant?

[Longfellow]

I agree. The hand check rule and an overall drop in physicality do help Lebron to a certain extent. Still a beast though

[mtindian42]

You make good points. We both know you can't flip flop eras not only is it impossible. It still would not prove who's better.

For instance let's give Carl Malone lebron James to play with. Can you say for certain Jordan wins that series?

Now let's give who ever plays Cleveland in the finals MJ
Can you say for certain lebron wins the series?

I would say James and Malone take the titles to much for that bulls team.

Just as I would say the team that has Jordan will take the title from lebron. To much for the cavs.

If you're great you can play in any era and be successful.

The deciding factor is heart. Both have it. Now you look at the talent. Both have it. Lebron has just a little bit more.

[Lionheart88]

You make good points. We both know you can't flip flop eras not only is it impossible. It still would not prove who's better.

For instance let's give Carl Malone lebron James to play with. Can you say for certain Jordan wins that series?

Now let's give who ever plays Cleveland in the finals MJ
Can you say for certain lebron wins the series?

I would say James and Malone take the titles to much for that bulls team.

Just as I would say the team that has Jordan will take the title from lebron. To much for the cavs.

If you're great you can play in any era and be successful.

The deciding factor is heart. Both have it. Now you look at the talent. Both have it. Lebron has just a little bit more.

I think whoever wins the West (more likely OKC) is going to take the title already.  Give them the best player ever and Lebron may not win a game.

James is bigger and stronger than Jordan, but I don't think he's more talented.

[Chief_Osceola™]

Jordan is well deserving of the top spot. Lebron is a better all around player then Jordan. He dose more stat wise then Jordan did.

Bigger and stronger =/= better.  LeBron doesn't have Jordan's killer instinct.  He never will.  He also wouldn't have been able to stay healthy playing in Jordan's era.  The Knicks and Pistons would have destroyed him.  On the other hand, Jordan would average 45 in today's NBA.

He has done more with less then any guy in nba history.

Wade and Bosh are probably going to be in the HOF.  Wade for sure will.  James has won what, 2 championships?  Ray Allen bailed out the Heat against the Spurs after LeBron disappeared one year.

Clutch: Jordan
Ast: LeBron Eh, I'm not sure about this one
Reb: lebron
Def: Jordan
Guard multiple positions: lebron
Court vision: lebron Or this one
Do more with less: lebron
Rings : Jordan
Flopping Ability Lebron
Mental Toughness Jordan

Fixed that.

[Chief_Osceola™]

Also, I like Pat Riley's take on Jordan/Bird.  When asked who he'd want to take a shot to win a game, the answer was Jordan.  When asked who he'd want to take a shot to save his life, the answer was Bird.

[mtindian42]

"Michael Jordan is probably the greatest scorer to play the game. But I may go so far as to say Lebron James may be the greatest player to ever play the game because he is so potent offensively that not only can he score at will, but he keeps everybody involved," Pippen said.

Enough said... I rest my case...