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3 worst officials in the history of basketball

Started by brown2010, February 28, 2015, 12:15:16 am

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brown2010

calling cedar ridge and mayflower game. they were there for a show. short bald headed guy your pitiful had 3 fouls on reaves 1st q everytime he got ball they were holding and pulling him all over plus a lot more. in 53 years of playing and watching that was horrible to take game away from people. others can respond too

WPWells


HorseFeathers

Quote from: 12th Man CHS on February 28, 2015, 12:16:03 am
Sour grapes?

Brown is from McCrory.....

And 3 worst couldn't have been there...One was calling the EPC-BIC game...

Ctucker


Timberwolf08

That truly was one of the most poorly officiated games I've ever seen. The two calls that stood out as terrible to me were absolute game changers. First, the absolutely ridiculous technical called on Crabtree. The kid from mayflower was laying on the ground and grabbed his leg like a toddler and Crabtree was trying to shake loose and keep from falling on the kid. And two, Reaves' 5th foul when the ref one foot from the play went no call and the old guy with raging short man syndrome called a charge from half court. I know things were let go and missed on both ends of the court, but both of those changed the outcome of the game. I'm so proud of our boys for never giving up and playing their guts out last night. There's no guarantee they would have won with different refs, but it sure is frustrating to have to walk out of a gym wondering.

Longfellow

Wanna see the worst refs of all time, watch a season worth of Two Rivers home games.

sevenof400

Quote from: brown2010 on February 28, 2015, 12:15:16 am
calling cedar ridge and mayflower game. they were there for a show. short bald headed guy your pitiful had 3 fouls on reaves 1st q everytime he got ball they were holding and pulling him all over plus a lot more. in 53 years of playing and watching that was horrible to take game away from people. others can respond too

With respect to officiating, I'll offer this observation: a few years ago, NFHS issued a point of emphasis (POE) on hand checking.  It has taken a couple of years but hand checking has decreased and it no longer the problem it once was. 

Post play needs to be the subject of the next POE.  There is a line between jostling for position and literally sumo wrestling for position.  I wasn't at this particular game but in general, positioning in the post needs to be addressed.

Eagle20

Quote from: Timberwolf08 on February 28, 2015, 08:19:16 am
That truly was one of the most poorly officiated games I've ever seen. The two calls that stood out as terrible to me were absolute game changers. First, the absolutely ridiculous technical called on Crabtree. The kid from mayflower was laying on the ground and grabbed his leg like a toddler and Crabtree was trying to shake loose and keep from falling on the kid. And two, Reaves' 5th foul when the ref one foot from the play went no call and the old guy with raging short man syndrome called a charge from half court. I know things were let go and missed on both ends of the court, but both of those changed the outcome of the game. I'm so proud of our boys for never giving up and playing their guts out last night. There's no guarantee they would have won with different refs, but it sure is frustrating to have to walk out of a gym wondering.
I was rooting for neither team but sitting right behind where the Crabtree incident occurred and that was blatantly  purposeful.  The kid had already let go, Crabtree hesitated on doing it and then did it.  Good player that just lost his cool for a minute!

doubled

Quote from: Eagle20 on February 28, 2015, 10:05:15 am
Quote from: Timberwolf08 on February 28, 2015, 08:19:16 am
That truly was one of the most poorly officiated games I've ever seen. The two calls that stood out as terrible to me were absolute game changers. First, the absolutely ridiculous technical called on Crabtree. The kid from mayflower was laying on the ground and grabbed his leg like a toddler and Crabtree was trying to shake loose and keep from falling on the kid. And two, Reaves' 5th foul when the ref one foot from the play went no call and the old guy with raging short man syndrome called a charge from half court. I know things were let go and missed on both ends of the court, but both of those changed the outcome of the game. I'm so proud of our boys for never giving up and playing their guts out last night. There's no guarantee they would have won with different refs, but it sure is frustrating to have to walk out of a gym wondering.
I was rooting for neither team but sitting right behind where the Crabtree incident occurred and that was blatantly  purposeful.  The kid had already let go, Crabtree hesitated on doing it and then did it.  Good player that just lost his cool for a minute!
if a foul would have been called on the holding of Crabtree probably wouldn't have been a T called.  Ref was looking for a reason all night.

Timberwolf08

February 28, 2015, 11:06:57 am #9 Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 11:10:32 am by Timberwolf08
^^DoubleD is right. Crabtree has never in his life had a technical called on him and his foot hit the kid while he was still trying to shake loose. We can put the game film on YouTube and the whole world can see it. And had the initial foul been called, there wouldn't have been an issue cause the kid would have let go at the whistle. I'm not saying there was no contact, there was. But nothing flagrant or to warrant a technical. The only reason there was contact after release was that he was still trying to shake free and momentum took it that way. He was not trying to kick the kid and the whole world, except eagle, knew it. And what's better is it can be proven.

pioneers

Not calling any of the referees out at the game at manila last night but flippin big post player that comes in off the bench hit a manila player in the face while he was posting up then 5 seconds later they call a foul on the manila player. It was a super dirty play that should resulted in an ejection and nothing was called on it. Then towards the end of the game flippin was up by 1 I believe and was trying to run time of the clock and was dribbling the ball up top by halfcourt line and the official up top called a 5 sec and went to go out of bounds to give manila the ball and the official underneath the basket which never once blew his whistle went to the scores desk to call a timeout for flippin and he overturned the 5 sec count and gave flippin the ball back.

I know the officials was very inconsistent the whole night for both teams but that was two of the worse Calls that happened.

ISU7

February 28, 2015, 11:18:40 am #11 Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 11:20:36 am by ISU7
Quote from: Timberwolf08 on February 28, 2015, 08:19:16 am
That truly was one of the most poorly officiated games I've ever seen. The two calls that stood out as terrible to me were absolute game changers. First, the absolutely ridiculous technical called on Crabtree. The kid from mayflower was laying on the ground and grabbed his leg like a toddler and Crabtree was trying to shake loose and keep from falling on the kid. And two, Reaves' 5th foul when the ref one foot from the play went no call and the old guy with raging short man syndrome called a charge from half court. I know things were let go and missed on both ends of the court, but both of those changed the outcome of the game. I'm so proud of our boys for never giving up and playing their guts out last night. There's no guarantee they would have won with different refs, but it sure is frustrating to have to walk out of a gym wondering.
almost the same situation happen to RiverCrest last night in Manila at a crucial time in the game. Colts were down 5 when a Valley springs player got tangled with a Colts player and the Colts player was given a foul and a tech with about 4 minutes left in the game. the VS player made all 4 ft's and valley got the ball which pretty much end it for the Crest. I was told by a loyal VS fan after the game that a double tech should have been given one on each player. For some reason the Manila gym seems to draw bad officiating year round 8)

teachers pet

I haven't seen this many cry babies since I was at the maternity ward in the hospital.

JeanClaudeVanHam

Quote from: ISU7 on February 28, 2015, 11:18:40 am
Quote from: Timberwolf08 on February 28, 2015, 08:19:16 am
That truly was one of the most poorly officiated games I've ever seen. The two calls that stood out as terrible to me were absolute game changers. First, the absolutely ridiculous technical called on Crabtree. The kid from mayflower was laying on the ground and grabbed his leg like a toddler and Crabtree was trying to shake loose and keep from falling on the kid. And two, Reaves' 5th foul when the ref one foot from the play went no call and the old guy with raging short man syndrome called a charge from half court. I know things were let go and missed on both ends of the court, but both of those changed the outcome of the game. I'm so proud of our boys for never giving up and playing their guts out last night. There's no guarantee they would have won with different refs, but it sure is frustrating to have to walk out of a gym wondering.
almost the same situation happen to RiverCrest last night in Manila at a crucial time in the game. Colts were down 5 when a Valley springs player got tangled with a Colts player and the Colts player was given a foul and a tech with about 4 minutes left in the game. the VS player made all 4 ft's and valley got the ball which pretty much end it for the Crest. I was told by a loyal VS fan after the game that a double tech should have been given one on each player. For some reason the Manila gym seems to draw bad officiating year round 8)

Double tech? I was sitting on the front row. The play happened less than five feet from me. Colts player fell over the VS player and then when the VS player started to get up the Colts player, obviously out of frustration, grabbed the Valley player's ankle and flipped him down. It was dirty. The kid even went over and apologized to him afterwards.

Eagle20

Quote from: Timberwolf08 on February 28, 2015, 11:06:57 am
^^DoubleD is right. Crabtree has never in his life had a technical called on him and his foot hit the kid while he was still trying to shake loose. We can put the game film on YouTube and the whole world can see it. And had the initial foul been called, there wouldn't have been an issue cause the kid would have let go at the whistle. I'm not saying there was no contact, there was. But nothing flagrant or to warrant a technical. The only reason there was contact after release was that he was still trying to shake free and momentum took it that way. He was not trying to kick the kid and the whole world, except eagle, knew it. And what's better is it can be proven.
Love to see the game film.  Tough loss for a very good team.  I wasn't rooting for or against Cedar Ridge.  Just the observation of myself and a couple of other bystanders sitting behind the play.  I am sure he is a great kid and I saw that he is a very good player for myself!

True Fan


Baller_34

I don't have a dog in the fight but the kid from Rivercrest  kicked the kid from Valley in the head!! I was sitting 2 rows up at half court and was like wow!!! It had to be a Technical foul.

jr17


24


Tripod1


FlippinHog

Quote from: 24 on March 02, 2015, 08:28:12 am
Are there any good officials?

Good point.  Officiating is poor and inconsistent across the state.  But after watching all 14 state championship games last year in Hot Springs, I can say there are some very good officials out there. I was cautiously optimistic that the best officials (not neccessarily the most tenured) would have the opportunity to ref these games.  I believe that's what happened. 

We were just there to watch some good basketball, with no team in the hunt.  I was hoping for 14 highly competitive, close games decided by the players.  And that's basically what we saw play out.  With one exception, the officiating was fantastic.  The games were called fair and loose, but never got too physical.   There was very little complaining/booing from the fans.  I remember entire halves being played with 1-2 fouls called.  You essentially never noticed the officials!  That's what we all hope for.  The one exception was a game Saturday with, oddly enough, an official we see a lot in the 3A-1E.  It was called much tighter, with some rumbling from fans, but fortunately it didn't affect the outcome. 

I work for a firm that uses it's most successful, experienced producers to train newer employees.  The "vets" play a vital role in the careers of the lesser experienced.  Most successful ventures do the same.  I confess to knowing nothing about what type of training and continuing education officials in Arkansas must complete, but if these men that rise to the top of officiating in Arkansas AREN"T being used to help train other officials, then shame on the AAA.  There ARE some very good officials in the state, but I would guess they aren't being used effectively to train others.  Shame on the AAA.       

cdelaney

Quote from: 24 on March 02, 2015, 08:28:12 am
Are there any good officials?
My experience is that most officials do a pretty good job. There have been very, very few games over the years where I thought the officials decided a game. There are those late calls that go one way or the other, but usually there were earlier calls that could have been missed the other way that kind of even out. And there are a few refs that want to be part of the show, when they should be out of the picture as much as possible.
What I would like to know is whether any of the fans who complain all the time have ever actually tried to call a basketball game? It is not easy- by far the hardest sport to officiate. What I see are fans who yell and scream about every single call that goes against them, who don't seem to know the rules,  and who think that if their team had more fouls called on them then the refs had it in for them. Usually the team with more fouls either plays a more aggressive style of defense, or they just aren't as quick and talented as the other team. Number of fouls called is not a determining factor in whether the refs were fair.
So my advice to upset fans: 1)try to ref a game, maybe at the youth level, boys club, etc- see how hard it is; 2) learn the rules!; 3) go ahead and yell at the refs when they blow a call- that's part of the game; but then sit down and shut up, and watch for when they blow one in your favor and remember that call too! 4) If you seriously think that a ref is biased against your team, or is just blatantly incompetent, report him the AAA and the official's supervisor. You may not get any immediate feedback, but if there is a pattern on a certain ref it can make a difference. And your team's coach can probably get something done quicker.

Bulldog92

Quote from: sevenof400 on February 28, 2015, 09:45:35 am
Quote from: brown2010 on February 28, 2015, 12:15:16 am
calling cedar ridge and mayflower game. they were there for a show. short bald headed guy your pitiful had 3 fouls on reaves 1st q everytime he got ball they were holding and pulling him all over plus a lot more. in 53 years of playing and watching that was horrible to take game away from people. others can respond too

With respect to officiating, I'll offer this observation: a few years ago, NFHS issued a point of emphasis (POE) on hand checking.  It has taken a couple of years but hand checking has decreased and it no longer the problem it once was. 

Post play needs to be the subject of the next POE.  There is a line between jostling for position and literally sumo wrestling for position.  I wasn't at this particular game but in general, positioning in the post needs to be addressed.
Don't have a dog in this fight at all but the officiating in 4A isn't any better.  I am not saying that they are BAD but they are VERY INCONSISTANT!!  Seven I agree 100% with the focus on the post players.  My problem has been them allowing the shorter players to be more aggressive over the taller players, especially in the girl games.  I have watched our girls get pushed and shoved out of the box by smaller girls and we can't even block out.
We have had officials look at our coach when complaining about no calls and ask her if she has looked at the score board.  It is not up to the officials to keep a team in the game, their job is to call the fouls on the court as they see them, not to be concerned with what the score board says!!

shady11954

the officials at manila were the most one-sided i have seen in a long time. if you were playing a team from that conf it all was in there favor.

WPWells

Shady is back crying again. Someone get him a Kleenex

shady11954

not crying just statingFACT had to meany people tell me same thing that were neutral.

shady11954

two of the officials who called the manila- valley game should hang there heads in shame for the way they called that game. it took so much away from the players on both sides because both played so hard to have it decided by the officials .you can deny it all you want but facts are facts.the best friend of the manila coach should not have be able to ref this game. i have said all i am going to say about this but the aaa should know about this.

Moonshiner

I know there are a lot of politics involved with who gets a regional and/or state tournament.  There was a regional this year that had two officials working who had NO business calling that important of a game.  One of them had only worked about 10 high school games all year and those were games that nobody else wanted.  He spent the majority of the year working jr high and 7th grade games but still got a regional.
Here's how officials inadvertently affect the outcome of a game.  Each team has a stud. Official A lets both players get by with some contact.  Seems fair.  However....Official B, sees it differently and seems to be stuck in the rotation under one of the teams baskets.  He calls it tight on one of the 2 studs causing that player to get into foul trouble.  The fans in the stands don't understand how one stud gets away with the same contact that their player doesn't get away with. Their best spends most of the night on the bench and they consequently lose. Drives fans and coaches nuts. Three officials, all have a different area to call.  But the rules are interpreted differently during the same game.  I saw this happen just yesterday.
Consistency is a must.

pioneers

Quote from: shady11954 on March 02, 2015, 12:03:06 pm
two of the officials who called the manila- valley game should hang there heads in shame for the way they called that game. it took so much away from the players on both sides because both played so hard to have it decided by the officials .you can deny it all you want but facts are facts.the best friend of the manila coach should not have be able to ref this game. i have said all i am going to say about this but the aaa should know about this.
What was the name of the ref that is best friends with manila coach?

Bulldog92

Quote from: Moonshiner on March 02, 2015, 01:29:39 pm
I know there are a lot of politics involved with who gets a regional and/or state tournament.  There was a regional this year that had two officials working who had NO business calling that important of a game.  One of them had only worked about 10 high school games all year and those were games that nobody else wanted.  He spent the majority of the year working jr high and 7th grade games but still got a regional.
Here's how officials inadvertently affect the outcome of a game.  Each team has a stud. Official A lets both players get by with some contact.  Seems fair.  However....Official B, sees it differently and seems to be stuck in the rotation under one of the teams baskets.  He calls it tight on one of the 2 studs causing that player to get into foul trouble.  The fans in the stands don't understand how one stud gets away with the same contact that their player doesn't get away with. Their best spends most of the night on the bench and they consequently lose. Drives fans and coaches nuts. Three officials, all have a different area to call.  But the rules are interpreted differently during the same game.  I saw this happen just yesterday.
Consistency is a must.
^^^+1^^^

doubled

Solve the problem this way. If it's a region with 3a 2 and 3a 5 have the refs from 3a 1 and 3a 3 call the games and vise versa see solved then none have a dog in the fight.  Wow that was hard have the AAA send me a check oh what the heck that one is for free. The Homer refs have been a problem for a long time it needs to be solved people have no integrity anymore.

Arrow Supporter

Consistency is very much lacking. That was my complaint all year. How can either team know how to play aggressively or not, if the calling fluctuates from one end of the court to the other.

Grishawg

Quote from: doubled on March 02, 2015, 06:05:55 pm
Solve the problem this way. If it's a region with 3a 2 and 3a 5 have the refs from 3a 1 and 3a 3 call the games and vise versa see solved then none have a dog in the fight.  Wow that was hard have the AAA send me a check oh what the heck that one is for free. The Homer refs have been a problem for a long time it needs to be solved people have no integrity anymore.
Not every official can just take off and travel across the state and work a regional then possibly a state. Logistics play a huge deal here. A lot of better officials end up working the higher classifications therefore aren't available to work regionals as the larger classes are still having regular season games.

neds

And there you have it. These guys make minimum money, not sure how you ask them to travel 250 miles to call a game. Even college refs stay regional

doubled

The AAA should foot the bill for travel and stay. They get all the gate at each site. I would say about 2000 people a night go to the games.  How much do these guys get paid? Look what ever it takes to make things better should be done.

Grishawg

Quote from: doubled on March 02, 2015, 09:16:12 pm
The AAA should foot the bill for travel and stay. They get all the gate at each site. I would say about 2000 people a night go to the games.  How much do these guys get paid? Look what ever it takes to make things better should be done.
These guys have jobs and families.

Head Lion

I am friends with quite a few officials. The good ones are headed to do Div 2,3 conference tournaments, where they do get more money plus travel. The same groups try to work together to do some of 5A-7A postseason. Most people think its great extra money, but by the time you invest in gear & liscences. IT ISNT WORTH IT! Then most higher end do 2-3 camps a summer. The officials for regionals got $50 bucks a game, by the time you take out for above listed & fuel, plus all schools report income & they have to pay taxes on it, count me out. Another reason, most refs used to get 2 games a night now they get 1, IT ISNY WORTH IT. I get aggravated as much as the next one, but if there is not a serious influx of young talent to replace "old war horses", we will see the day where some games are cancelled due to lack of officials. Doesnt mean we should stand for a ref WAY past their prime, but really need to encourage younger people with a passion for the game. JMO

doubled

Wow that's horrible pay. They should get paid a lot more in my opinion and u would get a in flux of good refs.

Moonshiner

$50 per hour isn't too shabby.  Where they mess up, in my opinion, is bringing in 12 officials for a four game night.  Let each man/woman work 2 games.  $100 per night is pretty good pay .
if they are doing it for love of the game, or to help kids then the pay isn't an issue anyway.  The ones that are just there to draw a check need to go.  Now!!

ISU7

Quote from: razorbackmike on February 28, 2015, 11:34:50 am
I haven't seen this many cry babies since I was at the maternity ward in the hospital.
and you were one of them lol ;D 8)

StopTheMBHate

Quote from: Moonshiner on March 03, 2015, 11:42:59 am
$50 per hour isn't too shabby.  Where they mess up, in my opinion, is bringing in 12 officials for a four game night.  Let each man/woman work 2 games.  $100 per night is pretty good pay .
if they are doing it for love of the game, or to help kids then the pay isn't an issue anyway.  The ones that are just there to draw a check need to go.  Now!!

A couple of things respectfully in reply:

1.  It's not "$50 per hour".  Sr. High games run usually and hour-and-a-half.  Also, figure in travel to the gym, pre-game, dress, the aforementioned game, post-game, undress, and then the drive home, then you have way more than an hour. 

2.  There are various reasons (including coaches' preference) to not have the same official work two games in one night. This also helps to ensure the teams do not see the same officials night after night.

Moonshiner

Quote from: StopTheMBHate on March 03, 2015, 04:56:14 pm
Quote from: Moonshiner on March 03, 2015, 11:42:59 am
$50 per hour isn't too shabby.  Where they mess up, in my opinion, is bringing in 12 officials for a four game night.  Let each man/woman work 2 games.  $100 per night is pretty good pay .
if they are doing it for love of the game, or to help kids then the pay isn't an issue anyway.  The ones that are just there to draw a check need to go.  Now!!

A couple of things respectfully in reply:

1.  It's not "$50 per hour".  Sr. High games run usually and hour-and-a-half.  Also, figure in travel to the gym, pre-game, dress, the aforementioned game, post-game, undress, and then the drive home, then you have way more than an hour. 

2.  There are various reasons (including coaches' preference) to not have the same official work two games in one night. This also helps to ensure the teams do not see the same officials night after night.

The suggested minimum for Sr. High games during regular season is, I believe , $40 per game.  Tournament officials get more for some reason so it may be 45 instead of 50. Granted Sr. High games do last a little longer than an hour, usually an hour and 15 minutes. 
I don't think you can necessarily count travel to and from the game into that.  It's like any other job a person has.  You punch in when you get there.  How you get there is on you. 
I guess what I'm saying is $45 for 75 minutes of actual work is pretty good pay.
Especially when there are three of them, they rarely even have to run.
Personally I wish we would go back to 2 man crews.  You wouldn't have all this bickering over who's call it is.

NEA Razorback olfan

1 was working his magic at Trumann last night, Everytime I see him step on the court I just shake my head  ::)

Bulldog92

Quote from: NEA Razorback olfan on March 03, 2015, 09:54:37 pm
1 was working his magic at Trumann last night, Everytime I see him step on the court I just shake my head  ::)
Hope he doesn't go to Ozark!!

Tripod1

Quote from: Moonshiner on March 03, 2015, 07:17:57 pm
Quote from: StopTheMBHate on March 03, 2015, 04:56:14 pm
Quote from: Moonshiner on March 03, 2015, 11:42:59 am
$50 per hour isn't too shabby.  Where they mess up, in my opinion, is bringing in 12 officials for a four game night.  Let each man/woman work 2 games.  $100 per night is pretty good pay .
if they are doing it for love of the game, or to help kids then the pay isn't an issue anyway.  The ones that are just there to draw a check need to go.  Now!!

A couple of things respectfully in reply:

1.  It's not "$50 per hour".  Sr. High games run usually and hour-and-a-half.  Also, figure in travel to the gym, pre-game, dress, the aforementioned game, post-game, undress, and then the drive home, then you have way more than an hour. 

2.  There are various reasons (including coaches' preference) to not have the same official work two games in one night. This also helps to ensure the teams do not see the same officials night after night.

The suggested minimum for Sr. High games during regular season is, I believe , $40 per game.  Tournament officials get more for some reason so it may be 45 instead of 50. Granted Sr. High games do last a little longer than an hour, usually an hour and 15 minutes. 
I don't think you can necessarily count travel to and from the game into that.  It's like any other job a person has.  You punch in when you get there.  How you get there is on you. 
I guess what I'm saying is $45 for 75 minutes of actual work is pretty good pay.
Especially when there are three of them, they rarely even have to run.
Personally I wish we would go back to 2 man crews.  You wouldn't have all this bickering over who's call it is.
Disclaimer:  I am a retired official.  I'm ok with you not wanting to count drive time to and from the game so let's take that out of the equation.  Senior high games last every bit of 1 hour and 15 minutes but most time closer to 1hour and 30 minutes.  You either forgot or do not realize that the officials "should be" at the game site 1 hour before tip and during that time they should dress and have a good pre game.  And no, not just the start of the season but EVERY game till the season ends.  They also are responsible for warm up which means they come on the court or should come on the court when the teams do.  So lets do some time figuring then.  Senior girls game starts at 6, the officials should be there at 5.  So lets say they "punch the clock then.  Senior boys game ends 9:15-9:30 so they have spent the better part of 4 hours "on the clock".  So the pay is not quite as good as you think.  The good officials that are truly wanting to improve spend their own money during the summer going to at least 1 officials camp often times having to pay for a hotel room, travel expense, food, and time away from the family for 3-5 days.  I absolutely LOVED every minute of my officiating career and have no regrets as to cost in money or time away from family.  I realize officials will always catch a lot of blame and I will also admit there are some pretty bad officials working games they have no business working.  For the really good ones, the love of the game is their motivation and money is not even a consideration.

doubled

Question to all official when 1 official calls a fouls when he's way out of position and your in a great spot and don't call it does it make the official in the good position look bad? Plus should u say something to the official who called out of position are just take it or can u over turn his call?

Tripod1

Getting the call right is the most important factor regardless of which official or where that official may be.  Ego cannot play into it.  What many who have never officiated does not understand is that the person closest to the play may have been straight lined (player blocking him from seeing the play) and thus it looks like another official called it out from under said official.  Angles is the most important part of officiating and if you do not have the proper angle you are guessing.

Moonshiner


[/quote]
Disclaimer:  I am a retired official.  I'm ok with you not wanting to count drive time to and from the game so let's take that out of the equation.  Senior high games last every bit of 1 hour and 15 minutes but most time closer to 1hour and 30 minutes.  You either forgot or do not realize that the officials "should be" at the game site 1 hour before tip and during that time they should dress and have a good pre game.  And no, not just the start of the season but EVERY game till the season ends.  They also are responsible for warm up which means they come on the court or should come on the court when the teams do.  So lets do some time figuring then.  Senior girls game starts at 6, the officials should be there at 5.  So lets say they "punch the clock then.  Senior boys game ends 9:15-9:30 so they have spent the better part of 4 hours "on the clock".  So the pay is not quite as good as you think.  The good officials that are truly wanting to improve spend their own money during the summer going to at least 1 officials camp often times having to pay for a hotel room, travel expense, food, and time away from the family for 3-5 days.  I absolutely LOVED every minute of my officiating career and have no regrets as to cost in money or time away from family.  I realize officials will always catch a lot of blame and I will also admit there are some pretty bad officials working games they have no business working.  For the really good ones, the love of the game is their motivation and money is not even a consideration.
[/quote]

Tripod I really wish more officials were as professional as it sounds like you were when you wore the stripes.  My jaw dropped when I read what you said about getting there an hour before tip off.
Most of these guys have other jobs so I can see where that is often a problem, but these days they are lucky to be there 30 minutes before the first tip. In our area an official will make $120 for working one jr high game and two sr high games. So if they start at 5:00 and finish at 9:30 that's still about $26 per hour. To see a violation, blow the whistle, and report it.  Now I have done some officiating.  I know it's not as easy as it looks. But these guys are making pretty good money.  They are protected from criticism by the coaches.  Yet it's the coaches jobs that are on the line, not the officials. So when a coach gets a lazy official that man should hand his check back over to the school.  When a team gets intentionally homered,  that official should be stripped of his "license". God bless the good ones that try their best and are good at it.  There are just too many of the others.

doubled

Quote from: Moonshiner on March 04, 2015, 03:08:37 pm

Disclaimer:  I am a retired official.  I'm ok with you not wanting to count drive time to and from the game so let's take that out of the equation.  Senior high games last every bit of 1 hour and 15 minutes but most time closer to 1hour and 30 minutes.  You either forgot or do not realize that the officials "should be" at the game site 1 hour before tip and during that time they should dress and have a good pre game.  And no, not just the start of the season but EVERY game till the season ends.  They also are responsible for warm up which means they come on the court or should come on the court when the teams do.  So lets do some time figuring then.  Senior girls game starts at 6, the officials should be there at 5.  So lets say they "punch the clock then.  Senior boys game ends 9:15-9:30 so they have spent the better part of 4 hours "on the clock".  So the pay is not quite as good as you think.  The good officials that are truly wanting to improve spend their own money during the summer going to at least 1 officials camp often times having to pay for a hotel room, travel expense, food, and time away from the family for 3-5 days.  I absolutely LOVED every minute of my officiating career and have no regrets as to cost in money or time away from family.  I realize officials will always catch a lot of blame and I will also admit there are some pretty bad officials working games they have no business working.  For the really good ones, the love of the game is their motivation and money is not even a consideration.
[/quote]

Tripod I really wish more officials were as professional as it sounds like you were when you wore the stripes.  My jaw dropped when I read what you said about getting there an hour before tip off.
Most of these guys have other jobs so I can see where that is often a problem, but these days they are lucky to be there 30 minutes before the first tip. In our area an official will make $120 for working one jr high game and two sr high games. So if they start at 5:00 and finish at 9:30 that's still about $26 per hour. To see a violation, blow the whistle, and report it.  Now I have done some officiating.  I know it's not as easy as it looks. But these guys are making pretty good money.  They are protected from criticism by the coaches.  Yet it's the coaches jobs that are on the line, not the officials. So when a coach gets a lazy official that man should hand his check back over to the school.  When a team gets intentionally homered,  that official should be stripped of his "license". God bless the good ones that try their best and are good at it.  There are just too many of the others.
[/quote]well stated official's are kind of like cop's they protect their own no matter how bad a ref homers a team or is just a horrible ref.

Tripod1

Doubled.  I realize times and people have changed since my officiating days but I must address your comment about officials protecting their own and allowing said "homer " official to continue.  That is cheating and under no circumstance would I cheat a kid.  I've refused to work with certain officials because they were incompetent.  I've also reported an official to a athletic director and the AAA and told them I would not be associated with that official.  Contrary to popular belief most officials work hard at their craft and really don't care who wins or loses a game.  I could not cheat for coach A because I would also work at coach B's place during the season.  Overall state of officiating is not good I admit.  The lure of bigger money at the college level leaves a void of officials for the high school level and puts young guys in games they are not ready to work and also keeps older guys working that needed to retire years ago.  Many officials summer camps have become tryout camps and little teaching occurs. There isn't a good answer to the problem.  I loved my days of officiating and am proud of my work.  I'm also very glad I don't have to take the court with some of the people I see wearing stripes today.

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