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Playoff locations question

Started by blackandoldgold, November 25, 2018, 02:04:02 pm

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blackandoldgold

November 25, 2018, 02:04:02 pm Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 02:25:44 pm by blackandoldgold
Here's something I would like to see in the Arkansas HS football playoffs. Many on these boards have wished for neutral sites.

I've lived long enough to see games played at one team's home field or another, like now, and I've seen games played at neutral sites too. Have even seen THE state championship game played at one team's home site (go figure that one out).

Here's what I propose & haven't heard a discouraging word yet (although I'm sure some of you will disagree, but that's okay too).

Keep the games at the home of a team with a better seeding. Say a 3 seed has to play at a 2 seed, etc.

The CHANGE would be if two of the SAME seeds play each other, especially two #1 seeds. They've both earned their seeding by their respective conference finish. Why should the luck of the bracket placement determine where the game is played & therefore the possible winner?

At that point, pick a neutral site & play there. It's been done before & could be done again. Not too many games would be involved so it shouldn't be that hard to do. It would give both teams a more equal chance of winning & make travel easier & safer for fans & the teams alike.

(And please, this post is not just because my team the Rison Wildcats have to travel this week. I would like to see the change if Osceola had to travel to Rison. I mean my goodness, Osceola had to travel all the way across the state last week in a #1 seed vs. a #1 seed match up to Smackover. That was beyond ridiculous. Rison is my alma mater although I don't live there anymore. So actually I'm traveling somewhere out of town each week if I want to see my team play. I don't usually make 3+hour trips though.)

Your thoughts please?

jay nelvin

I agree, a TX friend of mine cannot comprehend why our playoff locations are managed the way it is. 

WonderWartHawg

As with most every thing, it probably comes down to... money.
The AAA gets a cut of the gate for playoff games, that's why you pay that extra dollar to get in when playoffs roll around.  With the game being at one teams home, I suspect in the long run the AAA has figured out that they make more money with at least one team drawing a really good gate.  Only one fan base has to travel, instead of both.

Just my theory.

athletic supporter

November 25, 2018, 02:52:14 pm #3 Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 04:01:47 pm by athletic supporter
I agree with you, BUT if you truly feel that way, why didn't you start the thread last week when Osceola traveled to Smackover? Would you have started this thread if Osceola had to travel to the Deep South again? Talk is cheap, but your actions say otherwise. Not trying to start anything

blackandoldgold

Quote from: athletic supporter on November 25, 2018, 02:52:14 pm
I agree with you, BUT if you truly feel that way, why didn't you start the thread last week when Osceola traveled to Smackover? Would you have started this thread if Osceola had to travel to the quagmire at Smackover? Talk is cheap, but your actions say otherwise. Not trying to start anything
You are correct. Actions do speak loud. If you weren't trying to start anything, you wouldn't have posted such a reply.

I've preached my views for years to my local friends. Visited FF as a guest for awhile. Only joined a year or so ago & didn't really start posting much until lately. You can choose to believe me or not. I don't really care.

I don't like the way the playoff brackets are not seeded overall either. Do you want me to go back in time to post that? Such as before the playoffs started this season or wait until before they start next year? Louisiana seeds their overall brackets. Why can't we?

I don't like the fact that HS state championships are played with college goal posts. Same odds for both. NO! Maybe one team has a better kicker than the other.

I thought it was stupid when for years both 7 A state finalists were from NWA & had to come to LR to play for the championship. Let me go back in time to voice that opinion too while I've time traveling.

Yes, it's on my mind now because IF I want to see my team play this week it's a long drive. I won't get home & in bed until close to 2 AM. And I have to work Saturday morning. Just because I haven't voiced it before doesn't mean I've haven't felt it was unfair before.

athletic supporter

Quote from: blackandoldgold on November 25, 2018, 03:46:41 pm
You are correct. Actions do speak loud. If you weren't trying to start anything, you wouldn't have posted such a reply.

I've preached my views for years to my local friends. Visited FF as a guest for awhile. Only joined a year or so ago & didn't really start posting much until lately. You can choose to believe me or not. I don't really care.

I don't like the way the playoff brackets are not seeded overall either. Do you want me to go back in time to post that? Such as before the playoffs started this season or wait until before they start next year? Louisiana seeds their overall brackets. Why can't we?

I don't like the fact that HS state championships are played with college goal posts. Same odds for both. NO! Maybe one team has a better kicker than the other.

I thought it was stupid when for years both 7 A state finalists were from NWA & had to come to LR to play for the championship. Let me go back in time to voice that opinion too while I've time traveling.

Yes, it's on my mind now because IF I want to see my team play this week it's a long drive. I won't get home & in bed until close to 2 AM. And I have to work Saturday morning. Just because I haven't voiced it before doesn't mean I've haven't felt it was unfair before.

Well now I know how you've felt for a VERY LONG TIME. That changes everything. I guess since you have to work Saturday morning you'll have to listen to the game. Sorry you can't go watch your team play. Just be glad your team is still playing in the semis

Head Lion

Quote from: WonderWartHawg on November 25, 2018, 02:46:31 pm
As with most every thing, it probably comes down to... money.
The AAA gets a cut of the gate for playoff games, that's why you pay that extra dollar to get in when playoffs roll around.  With the game being at one teams home, I suspect in the long run the AAA has figured out that they make more money with at least one team drawing a really good gate.  Only one fan base has to travel, instead of both.

Just my theory.
Bingo, we have a winner

blackandoldgold

Quote from: athletic supporter on November 25, 2018, 05:00:15 pm
Well now I know how you've felt for a VERY LONG TIME. That changes everything. I guess since you have to work Saturday morning you'll have to listen to the game. Sorry you can't go watch your team play. Just be glad your team is still playing in the semis
Yep. Did my best to try & tell you since obviously you think you know how people feel. I made a post & basically you called me a liar. Why you tried to make something out of nothing I don't know. Must be in your nature to be disagreeable or maybe you're a member of the psychic network.

All I wanted to discuss was neutral sites & you went off topic more or less saying I had a motive.

I mean really, as if I could this very week get the AAA to get member schools to hold an emergency meeting & vote to change the playoff rules immediately just for my team.

Now THAT would change everything.

And from the tone of your posts please don't tell me you're sorry about anything concerning me. No way can you be sincere or we wouldn't be having this conversation. Actions remember?

And one other thing. Don't EVER tell me to do anything. Last time I checked. You sure as heck weren't my dad.

bootsie84

atletic supporter is a miserable coward who would never speak those rude words to someones face. He hides behind the anonymity of his pseudonym

athletic supporter

Quote from: blackandoldgold on November 25, 2018, 05:47:30 pm
Yep. Did my best to try & tell you since obviously you think you know how people feel. I made a post & basically you called me a liar. Why you tried to make something out of nothing I don't know. Must be in your nature to be disagreeable or maybe you're a member of the psychic network.

All I wanted to discuss was neutral sites & you went off topic more or less saying I had a motive.

I mean really, as if I could this very week get the AAA to get member schools to hold an emergency meeting & vote to change the playoff rules immediately just for my team.

Now THAT would change everything.

And from the tone of your posts please don't tell me you're sorry about anything concerning me. No way can you be sincere or we wouldn't be having this conversation. Actions remember?

And one other thing. Don't EVER tell me to do anything. Last time I checked. You sure as heck weren't my dad.

No. I meant that changes the way I look at your post. I NEVER told you that you had to do ANYTHING. You're awful sensitive. You're right about 1 thing though

athletic supporter

Quote from: bootsie84 on November 25, 2018, 05:52:48 pm
atletic supporter is a miserable coward who would never speak those rude words to someones face. He hides behind the anonymity of his pseudonym

And you know this how? I guess as you typed it you weren't hiding behind your pseudonym

Clara Allen

Good gracious! 
Back in the dinosaur days, I remember my high school team playing in the playoffs at a neutral site.  And yes it was in Arkansas.

xadboy

Not sure if the neutral site would work in the first couple of rounds, but think it could later in the playoffs. The first round has 60 to 70 games (just a guess at the total of all classes) unless they went more regionally in games, would be tough to find that many central locations. But I do like the idea, if you cut a 3 hour drive in half I think more fans from each school would go.

ISU7

I think two one seed meeting later in the playoffs should play at a neutral site.  8) 8)

football_referee

It's not easy to host a playoff game at  neutral sites and yes  ultimately it comes down to money. Teams just don't show up and play on Friday night with out a lot of behind the scene work.

Team x and team y are playing at z location.

Now who is going to make sure Z site is ready and staffed? Who pays to get field ready security is provided concessions provided pa announcers scoreboard and clock operators and no the AAA don't provide Clock operators for regular game it all the home schools. 

Game lights are not cheap
Grass fields get tore up and have to be fixed
And then clean up of the stadiums after game can get expensive site z don't get a lot of reward in hosting a game 

Attendance would be down
Beside it's a pride thing to host a playoff game I think the kids play harder knowing that home playoff off spots are on line

I agree travel is brutal on some teams and their fan base.

Neutral site have been done before and for what ever reason did not work out but I am guessing it has to do with of teams that play now compared to year ago
Is there a better solution out there? Yes there are always better solutions. Right now the current way playoffs are being played is working.


Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: football_referee on November 27, 2018, 02:10:31 pm
It’s not easy to host a playoff game at  neutral sites and yes  ultimately it comes down to money. Teams just don’t show up and play on Friday night with out a lot of behind the scene work.

Team x and team y are playing at z location.

Now who is going to make sure Z site is ready and staffed? Who pays to get field ready security is provided concessions provided pa announcers scoreboard and clock operators and no the AAA don’t provide Clock operators for regular game it all the home schools. 

Game lights are not cheap
Grass fields get tore up and have to be fixed
And then clean up of the stadiums after game can get expensive site z don’t get a lot of reward in hosting a game 

Attendance would be down
Beside it’s a pride thing to host a playoff game I think the kids play harder knowing that home playoff off spots are on line

I agree travel is brutal on some teams and their fan base.

Neutral site have been done before and for what ever reason did not work out but I am guessing it has to do with of teams that play now compared to year ago
Is there a better solution out there? Yes there are always better solutions. Right now the current way playoffs are being played is working.


The only thing I remember about years ago was the hosting town got the concession money.

beach bum

November 27, 2018, 02:17:08 pm #16 Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 02:19:40 pm by beach bum
The only time I even think neutral sites should be considered is when two teams who are 1 seeds are playing..... And that really is the only time. All the best memories of watching a high school game are from the Friday after Thanksgiving or the first Friday in December hosting a big playoff game with a big and loud home crowd in attendance with chances to go to WMS on the line. 

The only other thing comparable to that is when a team hosting regionals or state in basketball has a good team in the tournament. I have seen some really great atmospheres in those instances comparable in nature. Although the Osceola posters cried for days about Drew Central last year winning so many games on their home court.

Paperman

Quote from: blackandoldgold on November 25, 2018, 02:04:02 pm
Here's something I would like to see in the Arkansas HS football playoffs. Many on these boards have wished for neutral sites.

I've lived long enough to see games played at one team's home field or another, like now, and I've seen games played at neutral sites too. Have even seen THE state championship game played at one team's home site (go figure that one out).

Here's what I propose & haven't heard a discouraging word yet (although I'm sure some of you will disagree, but that's okay too).

Keep the games at the home of a team with a better seeding. Say a 3 seed has to play at a 2 seed, etc.

The CHANGE would be if two of the SAME seeds play each other, especially two #1 seeds. They've both earned their seeding by their respective conference finish. Why should the luck of the bracket placement determine where the game is played & therefore the possible winner?

At that point, pick a neutral site & play there. It's been done before & could be done again. Not too many games would be involved so it shouldn't be that hard to do. It would give both teams a more equal chance of winning & make travel easier & safer for fans & the teams alike.

(And please, this post is not just because my team the Rison Wildcats have to travel this week. I would like to see the change if Osceola had to travel to Rison. I mean my goodness, Osceola had to travel all the way across the state last week in a #1 seed vs. a #1 seed match up to Smackover. That was beyond ridiculous. Rison is my alma mater although I don't live there anymore. So actually I'm traveling somewhere out of town each week if I want to see my team play. I don't usually make 3+hour trips though.)

Your thoughts please?
Last year Osceola traveled to Charleston for a quarterfinal game, then the next week went all the way to Junction City for the semifinal game. That is a lot of miles and time on a bus for any team or kids to have to endure. Regional sites after the first three rounds for the semifinals might be an answer. But is it really unfair for two #1 seeds to have to travel to anothers home field in a quarterfinal game. That is tough.

1wildcat

Quote from: blackandoldgold on November 25, 2018, 02:04:02 pm
Here's something I would like to see in the Arkansas HS football playoffs. Many on these boards have wished for neutral sites.

I've lived long enough to see games played at one team's home field or another, like now, and I've seen games played at neutral sites too. Have even seen THE state championship game played at one team's home site (go figure that one out).

Here's what I propose & haven't heard a discouraging word yet (although I'm sure some of you will disagree, but that's okay too).

Keep the games at the home of a team with a better seeding. Say a 3 seed has to play at a 2 seed, etc.

The CHANGE would be if two of the SAME seeds play each other, especially two #1 seeds. They've both earned their seeding by their respective conference finish. Why should the luck of the bracket placement determine where the game is played & therefore the possible winner?

At that point, pick a neutral site & play there. It's been done before & could be done again. Not too many games would be involved so it shouldn't be that hard to do. It would give both teams a more equal chance of winning & make travel easier & safer for fans & the teams alike.

(And please, this post is not just because my team the Rison Wildcats have to travel this week. I would like to see the change if Osceola had to travel to Rison. I mean my goodness, Osceola had to travel all the way across the state last week in a #1 seed vs. a #1 seed match up to Smackover. That was beyond ridiculous. Rison is my alma mater although I don't live there anymore. So actually I'm traveling somewhere out of town each week if I want to see my team play. I don't usually make 3+hour trips though.)

Your thoughts please?
In the current system, the first round should be eliminated. As far as neutral site games, you could allow schools that are not competing in the playoffs (if interested) to inform the AAA of their interest in hosting neutral site games, they would be responsible for all staffing, and be compensated for it. I'm sure there are plenty that could use the money. Then allow the AAA to select a site that's fair to both teams. Once the match up is determined they should be able to select the site in a day or two at the most. Just a thought.

blackandoldgold

Love the input guys. Please keep it coming. Your thoughts are very interesting to me.

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: 1wildcat on November 28, 2018, 12:09:01 am
In the current system, the first round should be eliminated. As far as neutral site games, you could allow schools that are not competing in the playoffs (if interested) to inform the AAA of their interest in hosting neutral site games, they would be responsible for all staffing, and be compensated for it. I'm sure there are plenty that could use the money. Then allow the AAA to select a site that's fair to both teams. Once the match up is determined they should be able to select the site in a day or two at the most. Just a thought.
Who would pay the neutral site and where would the money come from?

1wildcat

Quote from: Oldman on November 28, 2018, 08:35:15 am
Who would pay the neutral site and where would the money come from?
The Fans attending the games, a portion of the tickets sold plus concessions. Seems like it would be win for everyone involved, and nobody has to make another 3 or 4 hour trip. Would also encourage improving facilities statewide. You probably wouldn't host many games if you couldn't provide decent dressing rooms for the teams and seating for the fans.

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: 1wildcat on November 28, 2018, 08:54:35 am
The Fans attending the games, a portion of the tickets sold plus concessions. Seems like it would be win for everyone involved, and nobody has to make another 3 or 4 hour trip. Would also encourage improving facilities statewide. You probably wouldn't host many games if you couldn't provide decent dressing rooms for the teams and seating for the fans.
Oh I agree but there is 0 chance AAA is giving up any gate money or doing away with the 5 seed. $$$$$$$

1wildcat

You're probably right on that. But as a fan of McGehee would you rather drive 250 miles to game or pay a hosting school a few dollars extra at the gate and only have to drive 125 miles?

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: 1wildcat on November 28, 2018, 09:07:18 am
You're probably right on that. But as a fan of McGehee would you rather drive 250 miles to game or pay a hosting school a few dollars extra at the gate and only have to drive 125 miles?
Like I said I agree with you on the neutral sites but have no faith in the AAA.

1wildcat

Quote from: Oldman on November 28, 2018, 09:49:19 am
Like I said I agree with you on the neutral sites but have no faith in the AAA.
Maybe if the hosting school would have their cheerleaders selling t-shirts that said "this neutral site brought to you by the AAA" and turned in all those profits.

Bearcatdad

Quote from: 1wildcat on November 28, 2018, 10:10:46 am
Maybe if the hosting school would have their cheerleaders selling t-shirts that said "this neutral site brought to you by the AAA" and turned in all those profits.
+1.

CoolBreeze

Quote from: 1wildcat on November 28, 2018, 10:10:46 am
Maybe if the hosting school would have their cheerleaders selling t-shirts that said "this neutral site brought to you by the AAA" and turned in all those profits.
LOL!

blackandoldgold

Quote from: 1wildcat on November 28, 2018, 10:10:46 am
Maybe if the hosting school would have their cheerleaders selling t-shirts that said "this neutral site brought to you by the AAA" and turned in all those profits.
Great idea! If the AAA would only come around to this way of thinking, hahaha.

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