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SEMIFINALS - Rison @ Osceola

Started by 501Arkansas, November 23, 2018, 09:36:34 pm

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Osceola
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Rison
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Total Members Voted: 119

fffan

Quote from: MR#1 on December 03, 2018, 10:28:19 am
I agree with your assessment of that previous post.

I'm not making excuses for the loss to Osceola, my comments are a general opinion regarding the 'State of Wildcat Football.'

1) Rison does run the ball well and has for many, many years. They also play pretty good defense. The Wildcats have a reputation for smacking a team hard, getting the lead, and grinding it out - either, keeping the other team's offense off the field or increasing the lead by scoring quickly on long runs or on a surprise pass play. This philosophy works and works well given Coach Totty's preparation of the team, both in- and out-of-season. The problem occurs when the other team 'smacks' back or the Wildcats make mistakes (especially turnovers); that problem often means Rison must play from behind and Coach Totty's offensive philosophy is not a great philosophy when playing from behind.

2) Rison is one of the smaller 3A schools and probably always will be. It is true that Rison's numbers are good as a large percentage of students do play football. However, larger 3A schools have teams often with the same numbers as Rison, but, on average, the athletes are better (providing better depth) as they were part of a larger pool of students. The bottom line is that Rison, though team participation is great, will never have the quality of depth (on average) as some of larger 3A schools.

I'm proud of what the Wildcats accomplished this year and hope that they can compete at a high level in 3A in upcoming years. Coach Totty's style worked well this year as he did have a collection of great athletes. But notice that the Wildcats played from ahead in all of their games this year until last Saturday. Given the mistakes, they did keep last Saturday's game fairly close. If they didn't make those mistakes, then maybe they could have won. But don't think for a second that Osceola wasn't a factor in the Wildcats making those mistakes. Again, congrats to Osceola on their win, and good luck against Booneville.

My hope is that Coach Totty will install somewhat of a spread offense (a two-minute offense) so that the team can play better from behind. It takes depth to do that well though.

MR#1 gets it.  Just because I'm a first time poster doesn't mean I'm not a long-time reader, nor does it mean I don't know football, nor does it mean I don't know Rison football.

I didn't bash Totty.  I just think he's going to have to change some of his offensive philosophy if he's going to keep up with how today's football is played.  Especially in the larger classification.
Yes, Rison made it to the Semi's this year.  Based largely on an extremely good class of players right now.  Rison hasn't had a Razorback player since the 50's, and the field is named after him.

Osceola had a good passing game, used their athletes well.  But once they got ahead, it was very unlikely that Rison was going to catch up.  They don't have a "catch up" offense.  And never will with Totty unless he changes.  That's all I was saying.
And every year, in 3A, as you get deeper into the playoffs and face the top tier teams, they're going to be able to throw the ball.  If Rison can't defend the pass very well, and doesn't have some scheme built into their offense to where they can play from behind and have a chance to catch up, they'll never get further than the 3rd or 4th round.

It's a valid discussion, with valid points, just that MR#1 stated it better than me.

Jimbo Morphis

Mcgehee won 2 State titles in a row with a loss in the finals and semi's in a four year span. Numerous fans complained because the wing-t was boring and we didn't throw enough. I love winning and don't care how we get there.

CatPride

Quote from: Oldman on December 03, 2018, 12:59:01 pm
Mcgehee won 2 State titles in a row with a loss in the finals and semi's in a four year span. Numerous fans complained because the wing-t was boring and we didn't throw enough. I love winning and don't care how we get there.
+1

fffan

Quote from: Oldman on December 03, 2018, 12:59:01 pm
Mcgehee won 2 State titles in a row with a loss in the finals and semi's in a four year span. Numerous fans complained because the wing-t was boring and we didn't throw enough. I love winning and don't care how we get there.

What were the other fans saying about that same coach after he went 14 years without winning a title?

#1wildcatfan

Quote from: StearDaBoat19 on December 03, 2018, 08:26:37 am
But you can not deny the fact of how Rison's center dominated the Seminoles defensive line. Without him, this game wouldn't of been close.
I really hope this is a sincere post and you aren't trying to make a jab at OUR center. Big person to hide behind a keyboard and talk noise on something you really know nothing about! 

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: fffan on December 03, 2018, 02:45:12 pm
What were the other fans saying about that same coach after he went 14 years without winning a title?
The smart ones know how hard it is to win a state title and are happy with a trip to the semi's.

fffan

December 03, 2018, 04:10:30 pm #406 Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 04:12:05 pm by fffan
Quote from: Oldman on December 03, 2018, 02:53:29 pm
The smart ones know how hard it is to win a state title and are happy with a trip to the semi's.

The smart ones know that Rison had the talent to do it this year.
But their old-style coach held them back.

I know how hard it is to win any championship at any level.  Some luck along the way is usually required.
Nobody is discounting the things that Totty has accomplished in the past.
I'm just saying that he's going to need to make some adjustments for the times or that "8" in a Rison fan's signature-line will never change to a "9" as long as he's there.

Buck Beefheart

Lots of Rison fans would like to see our style of play evolve. Its hard to beat a championship caliber team when they can put 10 men in the box and pin their ears back. That being said, Totty is second to none in the young man building business, which outweighs wins and losses by a lot.

wildcatrider

Quote from: fffan on December 03, 2018, 04:10:30 pm
The smart ones know that Rison had the talent to do it this year.
But their old-style coach held them back.

I know how hard it is to win any championship at any level.  Some luck along the way is usually required.
Nobody is discounting the things that Totty has accomplished in the past.
I'm just saying that he's going to need to make some adjustments for the times or that "8" in a Rison fan's signature-line will never change to a "9" as long as he's there.


🙌  More people think this than are saying it. The ones that praise his name either work with him or goes to church with him. Not saying he's a bad man.  Just needs to make some dang changes to be able to hang with good teams. 

Jimbo Morphis

You guys be careful what you ask for.

Nature Boy

Quote from: Oldman on December 03, 2018, 12:59:01 pm
Mcgehee won 2 State titles in a row with a loss in the finals and semi's in a four year span. Numerous fans complained because the wing-t was boring and we didn't throw enough. I love winning and don't care how we get there.

probably in that same timeframe Osceola went to 4 straight title games (won 2) and people complained about the wishbone.

I don't think it's the offense as much. It's defending a good spread team when you don't see harly any during the year.

ISU7

Quote from: Oldman on December 03, 2018, 12:59:01 pm
Mcgehee won 2 State titles in a row with a loss in the finals and semi's in a four year span. Numerous fans complained because the wing-t was boring and we didn't throw enough. I love winning and don't care how we get there.
I'm thinking that loss in ths finals was because Mcgehee went for the two and the win against the Noles and the Noles stopped it. Am I right Oldman.

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: ISU7 on December 03, 2018, 07:17:28 pm
I'm thinking that loss in ths finals was because Mcgehee went for the two and the win against the Noles and the Noles stopped it. Am I right Oldman.
Against a much better team. What was the other back besides Adams? Was it Little?

ISU7

Quote from: Oldman on December 03, 2018, 07:21:30 pm
Against a much better team. What was the other back besides Adams? Was it Little?
Littleton  and Barrett

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: ISU7 on December 03, 2018, 07:24:59 pm
Littleton  and Barrett
Littleton was a beast. Was he from Rivercrest?

Nature Boy


Dr. Defense

Quote from: Oldman on December 03, 2018, 05:43:56 pm
You guys be careful what you ask for.

Exactly. Look at the mans record for crying out loud.

MR#1

Quote from: Dr. Defense on December 03, 2018, 09:42:58 pm
Exactly. Look at the mans record for crying out loud.

In any profession, there is professional development (professional growth). All I'm saying is that it would be great if Coach Totty would demonstrate growth by making adjustments in game that would give the team a better chance of winning (especially, when playing from at least two scores behind an opponent). Installing a 'spread offense' (or two-minute offense) with a battery of plays to attack and score quickly would be a terrific adjustment for a game like last Saturday's. (Note: I'm not saying that the Wildcats would have won with such an adjustment, but they would have had a better chance to win given they needed two scores.)

fffan

Quote from: MR#1 on December 03, 2018, 11:59:03 pm
In any profession, there is professional development (professional growth). All I'm saying is that it would be great if Coach Totty would demonstrate growth by making adjustments in game that would give the team a better chance of winning (especially, when playing from at least two scores behind an opponent). Installing a 'spread offense' (or two-minute offense) with a battery of plays to attack and score quickly would be a terrific adjustment for a game like last Saturday's. (Note: I'm not saying that the Wildcats would have won with such an adjustment, but they would have had a better chance to win given they needed two scores.)

This.  ^^^

They will continue to win their conference.  Thus play some weaker teams in early rounds of the playoffs.
But when they run into a team that has an offense to put points on the board quickly via the air, and they get more than one score ahead, then Rison is done.

How many games this year, or in the last 10 years, did Rison come from more than 1 score behind, in the 2nd half, to win?  Just curious...

Dr. Defense

Quote from: fffan on December 04, 2018, 06:24:10 am
This.  ^^^

They will continue to win their conference.  Thus play some weaker teams in early rounds of the playoffs.
But when they run into a team that has an offense to put points on the board quickly via the air, and they get more than one score ahead, then Rison is done.

How many games this year, or in the last 10 years, did Rison come from more than 1 score behind, in the 2nd half, to win?  Just curious...

I will give you 2 because these 2 stick out vividly in my mind. I'm sure there are more.

2010-Fordyce has us down 27-10 with 2:00 left in the 3rd quarter. We won 30-27
2011- Glen Rose has us down 21-7 to start the 4th quarter. We won 24-21

Just 2 examples. I understand that you are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't take away from the fact that the man is a legend in high school football and my point is to be careful what you wish for. A lot of people would kill to have a coach that has averaged 10 wins per season (nearly) for 20+ seasons.

TheShreckoning


501Arkansas


MR#1

Quote from: Dr. Defense on December 04, 2018, 07:18:10 am
... I understand that you are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't take away from the fact that the man is a legend in high school football and my point is to be careful what you wish for. A lot of people would kill to have a coach that has averaged 10 wins per season (nearly) for 20+ seasons.

You make it sound like folks are saying 'get rid of Coach Totty.' Nobody has said that. The comments are simply indicating a desire to see him develop more as a coach, especially in games where Rison falls behind by more than two scores.

Dr. Defense

Quote from: MR#1 on December 04, 2018, 09:29:18 am
You make it sound like folks are saying 'get rid of Coach Totty.' Nobody has said that. The comments are simply indicating a desire to see him develop more as a coach, especially in games where Rison falls behind by more than two scores.

Well that's not what I meant. I was just simply providing some insight from the other perspective. You respectfully made your case and that's what I meant. You have always been classy about posting about the Wildcats

fffan

Quote from: Dr. Defense on December 04, 2018, 09:55:00 am
Well that's not what I meant. I was just simply providing some insight from the other perspective. You respectfully made your case and that's what I meant. You have always been classy about posting about the Wildcats

I never said fire Totty.  Never said he wasn't a good coach.
My point is, if you want to reach the next level, especially now that we're in 3A, we're going to have to expand out offensive philosophy some.
There's going to have to be some modernization to our offense if we want to beat the elite teams and be able to win another title.

501Arkansas

Quick question, why Malik Chavis wasn't playing safety Saturday night to at least slow down osceola's passing game? I know for sure he was the fastest player on the field. I didn't understand that one Saturday night

Buck Beefheart

Quote from: 501Arkansas on December 04, 2018, 12:23:21 pm
Quick question, why Malik Chavis wasn't playing safety Saturday night to at least slow down osceola's passing game? I know for sure he was the fastest player on the field. I didn't understand that one Saturday night
They were playing man coverage for some reason...... ..probably would have been worse for us if the wind hadnt been blowing. Yall got behind us on every play it seemed.

501Arkansas

Quote from: BurtBobJones on December 04, 2018, 12:48:56 pm
They were playing man coverage for some reason...... ..probably would have been worse for us if the wind hadnt been blowing. Yall got behind us on every play it seemed.
Man every play I was just like WOW

Coach_RC

Few years has Rison even had a QB that could see over his linemen to throw the ball down the field. Could it be that Totty sticks to the run because of the talent he has?

Buck Beefheart

Quote from: Coach_RC on December 04, 2018, 08:34:58 pm
Few years has Rison even had a QB that could see over his linemen to throw the ball down the field. Could it be that Totty sticks to the run because of the talent he has?
Tom Brady would be a left guard at Rison.

Skip Baymore

Quote from: Oldman on December 03, 2018, 02:53:29 pm
The smart ones know how hard it is to win a state title and are happy with a trip to the semi's.


+1

Skip Baymore

Quote from: BurtBobJones on December 04, 2018, 09:37:00 pm
Tom Brady would be a left guard at Rison.

Haha.  He has the speed for it.  But probably wouldn't last one quarter before being carted off for the season.  Maybe in 1985 he'd start at Rison there, but would be carted off in the 2nd quarter. 

Curleywolf Fan

Quote from: Nature Boy on December 03, 2018, 06:35:33 pm
probably in that same timeframe Osceola went to 4 straight title games (won 2) and people complained about the wishbone.

I don't think it's the offense as much. It's defending a good spread team when you don't see harly any during the year.
Prescott has a little history with Osceola in the 90's. I remember in 1996 Prescott played Osceola in the semifinals at Osceola with the winner playing Nashville for the State Championship. Y'all had Jonathon Adams on that team and he broke one for around 70 yard for a td and then we shut him down the rest of the game but Osceola beat us 12 to 6. We had our chances and got inside your 10 yard line around 4 times but turned the ball over. We had beaten Nashville the year before for the State Championship and wanted a rematch but it wasn't meant to be. Y'all played Nashville and they beat you 35 to 7 I think.

ISU7

December 05, 2018, 07:47:27 am #433 Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 07:52:11 am by ISU7
Quote from: Curleywolf Fan on December 05, 2018, 02:05:24 am
Prescott has a little history with Osceola in the 90's. I remember in 1996 Prescott played Osceola in the semifinals at Osceola with the winner playing Nashville for the State Championship. Y'all had Jonathon Adams on that team and he broke one for around 70 yard for a td and then we shut him down the rest of the game but Osceola beat us 12 to 6. We had our chances and got inside your 10 yard line around 4 times but turned the ball over. We had beaten Nashville the year before for the State Championship and wanted a rematch but it wasn't meant to be. Y'all played Nashville and they beat you 35 to 7 I think.
I'm thinking you are right CW. I think the Scrappers had Jared McBride at qb that season. McBride is the head Coach at Hot Springs Lakeside.

Curleywolf Fan

Quote from: ISU7 on December 05, 2018, 07:47:27 am
I'm thinking you are right CW. I think the Scrappers had Jared McBride at qb that season. McBride is the head Coach at Hot Springs Lakeside.
Yes McBride was the Quarterback the year before in 1995 when we beat them in the regular season 28 to 13 for the district championship and then we had to turn around and beat them again 14 to 8 for the State Championship to go 14-0-1 for the year. They also had a real good receiver named Greg Washington. In 1996 they beat us 32 to 21 for the district championship and we wanted a rematch real bad with them in the State Championship for some revenge but Osceola kept it from happening and I know Nashville was happy about it because they didn't want to have to play us again! lol

Lumberjackfan1978


fffan

Quote from: Lumberjackfan1978 on December 05, 2018, 11:22:09 am
well said +1

Who knew that wishing for your coach to make a change to his offensive philosophy to improve their chances of winning would be a bad thing.   ::)

1wildcat

For those asking for a change in coaching philosophy at Rison, I disagree. I mean this being our first year back in 3A and we mercy ruled our first 3 opponents in the playoffs. It took an outstanding Osceola team in the semi finals to change that. While their passing game is very good, probably the best we've faced since Shilo Christian that is not why we lost the game.

We lost it because of their team speed on defense. Yeah Chavis was probably the fastest player on the field but they had 6 or 7 that were real close. In the second half they pretty much shut down our running game to hold us to well below our scoring avg. on the year. Rison has as strong a running game as anybody, and any team that can stop it deserves to win.

I think Totty is an excellent coach that is a perfect match to the talent Rison produces. While it would be great to have a passing game to lean on when we get behind, having one that would be good enough to out perform our running game is another story.

We didn't lose this game because Totty was out coached. (Both coaches were excellent.) We lost this game because they simply had the better team. Especially on defense. How many long TD runs did we break against their defense? Zero!

Personally I hope Totty remains our coach for many years to come and changes nothing.

MR#1

Quote from: 1wildcat on December 07, 2018, 09:48:28 am
... While it would be great to have a passing game to lean on when we get behind, having one that would be good enough to out perform our running game is another story.

...

I've commented on this previously and my point is not to abandon the running game, but to enhance it with a passing game that would be useful when we fall behind. Also, note that a passing game could (probably would) improve our running game as the opposing team probably wouldn't load up with 8, 9 or 10 in the box. My point is for Coach Totty to 'grow professionally' as a coach because teams like Osceola, often with speed, will always be there in the semifinals and finals of 3A, a division where we have 0 state championships.

Footnote: If Rison were in 2A this year, there's a great chance that number 9 would have been added to the case.

1wildcat

Quote from: MR#1 on December 07, 2018, 09:57:33 am
I've commented on this previously and my point is not to abandon the running game, but to enhance it with a passing game that would be useful when we fall behind. Also, note that a passing game could (probably would) improve our running game as the opposing team probably wouldn't load up with 8, 9 or 10 in the box. My point is for Coach Totty to 'grow professionally' as a coach because teams like Osceola, often with speed, will always be there in the semifinals and finals of 3A, a division where we have 0 state championships.

Footnote: If Rison were in 2A this year, there's a great chance that number 9 would have been added to the case.
I understand your point and it''s a valid point. I just don't believe it would work very well at Rison. Osceola is an exception when it comes to overall team speed in small school football, trying to throw the ball much against them would have probably resulted in a few ints.

Rison for whatever reason just does not produce good passing QBs. The last one I remember was Bryan Trucks and that's been awhile.

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: 1wildcat on December 07, 2018, 10:17:10 am
I understand your point and it''s a valid point. I just don't believe it would work very well at Rison. Osceola is an exception when it comes to overall team speed in small school football, trying to throw the ball much against them would have probably resulted in a few ints.

Rison for whatever reason just does not produce good passing QBs. The last one I remember was Bryan Trucks and that's been awhile.
Hard to be very good at anything you do just part of the time.

fffan

Quote from: 1wildcat on December 07, 2018, 09:48:28 am

We lost it because of their team speed on defense. Yeah Chavis was probably the fastest player on the field but they had 6 or 7 that were real close. In the second half they pretty much shut down our running game to hold us to well below our scoring avg. on the year. Rison has as strong a running game as anybody, and any team that can stop it deserves to win.


And why were they able to shut down our running game?  Because we are zero threat to throw the ball.
Why would you concede a win just because someone can stop our running game??  "Well, we can't run, so we deserve to lose"....what??
Why not expand horizons a little bit so that when run isn't working we can throw the ball and get some of their players out of the box?

We don't produce passing QB's because we don't throw the ball.  You can't learn to do anything that you never try to do.

Buck Beefheart

Quote from: fffan on December 07, 2018, 01:30:25 pm
And why were they able to shut down our running game?  Because we are zero threat to throw the ball.
Why would you concede a win just because someone can stop our running game??  "Well, we can't run, so we deserve to lose"....what??
Why not expand horizons a little bit so that when run isn't working we can throw the ball and get some of their players out of the box?

We don't produce passing QB's because we don't throw the ball.  You can't learn to do anything that you never try to do.
Right. Nobody put 10 men in the box when  Red Parker was here. He'd make you pay. Prove me wrong.

1wildcat

Quote from: fffan on December 07, 2018, 01:30:25 pm
And why were they able to shut down our running game?  Because we are zero threat to throw the ball.
Why would you concede a win just because someone can stop our running game??  "Well, we can't run, so we deserve to lose"....what??
Why not expand horizons a little bit so that when run isn't working we can throw the ball and get some of their players out of the box?

We don't produce passing QB's because we don't throw the ball.  You can't learn to do anything that you never try to do.
Come on man, do really think we don't throw the ball because Totty just hates the thought of having a passing game, or that he is just hard headed and see's no benefit to having a legit passing threat?

He hasn't spent a lot of time on it because he knows we wouldn't be very good at it. My goodness we came up 10 points short of playing for the title. If we had a the personnel to run a 2 minute passing offense that he thought would be very effective, we would have one. The man knows how to coach.

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: 1wildcat on December 07, 2018, 02:09:02 pm
Come on man, do really think we don't throw the ball because Totty just hates the thought of having a passing game, or that he is just hard headed and see's no benefit to having a legit passing threat?

He hasn't spent a lot of time on it because he knows we wouldn't be very good at it. My goodness we came up 10 points short of playing for the title. If we had a the personnel to run a 2 minute passing offense that he thought would be very effective, we would have one. The man knows how to coach.
Amen

Buck Beefheart

Quote from: 1wildcat on December 07, 2018, 02:09:02 pm
Come on man, do really think we don't throw the ball because Totty just hates the thought of having a passing game, or that he is just hard headed and see's no benefit to having a legit passing threat?

He hasn't spent a lot of time on it because he knows we wouldn't be very good at it. My goodness we came up 10 points short of playing for the title. If we had a the personnel to run a 2 minute passing offense that he thought would be very effective, we would have one. The man knows how to coach.
So he just knows it wont work so why even try??

1wildcat

Quote from: BurtBobJones on December 07, 2018, 02:19:44 pm
  So he just knows it wont work so why even try??
Now you're getting it! Coach Totty knows his team and their limits way better than any of the fans.

Waterboy94

I agree on maybe a 2 minute offense for a comeback win, but Rison hasn't had the players to run more pass plays than they have been.  Any coach would pass if the tools were there.  We got beat by a better team.  Winning a championship isn't a walk in the park.

Buck Beefheart

Quote from: Waterboy94 on December 07, 2018, 02:58:46 pm
I agree on maybe a 2 minute offense for a comeback win, but Rison hasn't had the players to run more pass plays than they have been.  Any coach would pass if the tools were there.  We got beat by a better team.  Winning a championship isn't a walk in the park.
I played on a championship team with far less talent than this one. Guess what...we had a two minute offense.     We threw the ball to keep teams from loading the box......not one player ran faster than 4.8.....keep drinking the koolaid...Im out til next year........  #facts

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