How many kids does your school have to pick from for a championship run?

[blackandoldgold]

Taken from the AAA website -  http://members.ahsaa.org/public/userfiles/Admin/2018-2020Classication.pdf

3A size schools remaining involved in state football championship tournament (remember not all 3A schools compete in football):

1) Booneville - 290 kids (#1 largest 3A member school)
1) Smackover - 290 kids (#1 largest 3A member school)
3) Lamar - 285.67 kids (#5 largest 3A member school)
4) Osceola - 265.67 kids (#12 largest 3A member school)
5) McGehee - 247.33 kids (#16 largest 3A member school)
6) Prescott - 216.00 kids (#29 largest 3A member school)
7) Rison - 206.33 kids (#37 largest 3A member school)
Camden HG - 201.00 kids (#41 largest 3A member school)

That's quite a difference in enrollment from top to bottom. Can see how Booneville was 4A, & Rison & CHG were 2A teams last year.

Bet Haskell HG w/293.67 kids would like to swap places w/either Booneville or Smackover and play 3A ball.

You'd think the top 10 schools in enrollment if coached properly would make a run most every year.

Say what you will about only 11 kids can get on the field at any 1 time, depth matters especially in the playoffs.

Take a team that has numbers in the thirties & plays against another that has numbers in the fifties. That will be most difficult to overcome.

Overcoming injuries & playing both ways are a daily chore for the smaller teams.

On larger teams kids can play just offense or defense. There is someone to spot you & give you a breather if needed. And someone to plug in if an injury occurs, which unfortunately always happens.

The AAA does the best that member schools give them the power to do. It hasn't been that long since the playoffs expanded from 4 classifications to 6.

Anyone with thoughts about this?

[Jimbo Morphis]

Would love to see a % of young men playing in Rison compared to others.

[blackandoldgold]

It would be interesting to see how that % of kids playing football to enrollment played out at member schools.

There was an argument going around several years ago that the private schools had a much larger number of males to females to pick their team from. Personally I have no clue.

Coach Totty is so tough training the kids that he generally hasn't had large numbers, usually in the thirties at best.
Their enrollment is up somewhat this year for them, hence more kids available for the team. Also I think the new artificial turf put in last year has attracted a few more kids too.

Right now looks can be somewhat deceiving as he has allowed freshman to move up to the varsity team since the junior high season is over.

[Jimbo Morphis]

It would be interesting to see how that % of kids playing football to enrollment played out at member schools.

There was an argument going around several years ago that the private schools had a much larger number of males to females to pick their team from. Personally I have no clue.

Coach Totty is so tough training the kids that he generally hasn't had large numbers, usually in the thirties at best.
Their enrollment is up somewhat this year for them, hence more kids available for the team. Also I think the new artificial turf put in last year has attracted a few more kids too.

Right now looks can be somewhat deceiving as he has allowed freshman to move up to the varsity team since the junior high season is over.

Mcgehee hasn't had over low 30's that I remember in years.

[Risonwildcat212]

Coach Totty said before last season (I think) that AAAs numbers for Risons enrollment are wrong. AAA had one number they reported that put us in 3A but when the school and him personally did a physical head count, AAAs numbers had far more kids than in reality. The physical head count put Rison like 40 or more kids under the 2A cutoff. Which kinda sucks cause Rison would dominate 2A this season.

[bjp]

Good question.  You would assume that the smaller schools (across all classifications) would have a higher percentage of kids playing.  We had 40+ out for Rison 26 years ago which was Class A at the time (Now AA).  Was thinking the percentage of kids playing was higher, but after looking back we had about 50% of the boys enrolled that played football.

[athletic supporter]

Very interesting topic

[elmerfudd]

I'd love to see the % of male participation as well. I would imagine it's much higher at successful programs.

On a side note, those numbers were counted two years ago, I believe (in the middle of each 2 year cycle). Which means Booneville spent at least one year in the 4A with 3A numbers, yet still managed to win a conference title and advance to the quarterfinals last year. This senior laden class has fought very hard and gained some valuable experience to set themselves up for their senior season.

[bleudog]

Would love to see a % of young men playing in Rison compared to others.

This doesn't answer your question, but you might find it of some interest.

https://adedata.arkansas.gov/statewide/ReportList/Schools/EnrollmentByRaceGender.aspx?year=29&search=1305010&pagesize=10

[bleudog]

It would be interesting to see how that % of kids playing football to enrollment played out at member schools.

There was an argument going around several years ago that the private schools had a much larger number of males to females to pick their team from. Personally I have no clue.

Coach Totty is so tough training the kids that he generally hasn't had large numbers, usually in the thirties at best.
Their enrollment is up somewhat this year for them, hence more kids available for the team. Also I think the new artificial turf put in last year has attracted a few more kids too.

Right now looks can be somewhat deceiving as he has allowed freshman to move up to the varsity team since the junior high season is over.

I've always taken the position that the private school advantage is population density.  In other words, how many households are there within a 10 mile radius of campus?  That and the virtual non-existent student population that qualifies for free or reduced lunch.  Not many kids from low to moderate income families have access to trainers and instructional camps and many of them have to work to get a vehicle and keep gas in it.

[HorseFeathers]

I'd love to see the % of male participation as well. I would imagine it's much higher at successful programs.

On a side note, those numbers were counted two years ago, I believe (in the middle of each 2 year cycle). Which means Booneville spent at least one year in the 4A with 3A numbers, yet still managed to win a conference title and advance to the quarterfinals last year. This senior laden class has fought very hard and gained some valuable experience to set themselves up for their senior season.

Numbers for this current cycle 18-19, 19-20 School years...would have been pulled from the 14-15,15-16,16-17 school years I believe. Anyway, the years may be wrong but it's a 3 year average of 9-11 grade.

[bleudog]

Numbers for this current cycle 18-19, 19-20 School years...would have been pulled from the 14-15,15-16,16-17 school years I believe. Anyway, the years may be wrong but it's a 3 year average of 9-11 grade.

https://adedata.arkansas.gov/statewide/ReportList/Schools/EnrollmentByGrade.aspx?year=29&search=1305010&pagesize=10

[blackandoldgold]

Using the info provided by (bleudog), Rison should have around 96 boys (51% out of 189 total kids) in grades 10-12.

Football team has approximately 45 kids, not counting 9th graders moved up since junior high season over.

Soooo, that should work out to about a 47% participation rate of boys in grades 10-12 that play football.

Would be interesting to see how that compares to other similar sized schools.

[YSpanther]

Coach Totty said before last season (I think) that AAAs numbers for Risons enrollment are wrong. AAA had one number they reported that put us in 3A but when the school and him personally did a physical head count, AAAs numbers had far more kids than in reality. The physical head count put Rison like 40 or more kids under the 2A cutoff. Which kinda sucks cause Rison would dominate 2A this season.

AAA numbers are based on average daily enrollment numbers for the top 3 grades, maybe top 4. So if Rison had inflated numbers, were they getting paid by the state for nonexistent students, or was he complaining that their current numbers are lower than the previous numbers that classification was based on?  Because there is always a lag of a year.  Schools are always competing at what they used to be, not what they currently actually are.

[blackandoldgold]

In the last several classification cycles Rison has been on the cusp of either 2 or 3A ball based on student enrollment. They were one of the larger 2A schools while being the smallest public 3A school last time there.

I actually hadn't heard of any student enrollment numbers questions concerning student count at RHS. My best friend still lives in Rison & is on the school board so I'll certainly ask him about it. I know Junction City had some number problems the last classification cycle & got bumped up to 3A ball when they were supposed to have been in 2A ball the whole time. Something about Louisiana kids being counted twice I think.

My friend was actually glad Rison was moving up to 3A ball even though the competition level increased. Since both Hermitage & Woodlawn have had problems fielding a team recently in 2A, he thought finally in 3A those forfeit problems would behind RHS. Ask those coaches still in 2A how frustrating it is to have multiple open dates and to try and find replacement opponents on short notice. And then lo & behold EPC didn't field an 11-man team this year. Hard to believe with those facilities seen from the street as you drive by that EPC is unable to field a team. The campus looks beautiful.

Good luck to those schools struggling to field teams going forward.

[bleudog]

Numbers for this current cycle 18-19, 19-20 School years...would have been pulled from the 14-15,15-16,16-17 school years I believe. Anyway, the years may be wrong but it's a 3 year average of 9-11 grade.

You got it HF.

And not to pick on Rison in any way, but here's how the AAA math works to come up with their 206.33:

                      9      10      11      Total      
2016-2017      69      73      65      207      
2015-2016      69      74      67      210      
2014-2015      70      76      56      202       
                                                619   /  3   =  206.33

https://adedata.arkansas.gov/statewide/ReportList/Schools/EnrollmentByGrade.aspx?year=27&search=1305010&pagesize=10

https://adedata.arkansas.gov/statewide/ReportList/Schools/EnrollmentByGrade.aspx?year=26&search=1305010&pagesize=10

https://adedata.arkansas.gov/statewide/ReportList/Schools/EnrollmentByGrade.aspx?year=25&search=1305010&pagesize=10
                              

http://members.ahsaa.org/public/userfiles/Admin/2018-2020Classication.pdf


Their 2017-2018 total was 194 and their 2018-2019 total was 190. So their average could drop below 200 with the next reclassification calculation.  Historically that's been close to the 3A and 2A dividing line.

[blackandoldgold]

You got it HF.

And not to pick on Rison in any way, but here's how the AAA math works to come up with their 206.33:

                      9      10      11      Total      
2016-2017      69      73      65      207      
2015-2016      69      74      67      210      
2014-2015      70      76      56      202       
                                                619   /  3   =  206.33

https://adedata.arkansas.gov/statewide/ReportList/Schools/EnrollmentByGrade.aspx?year=27&search=1305010&pagesize=10

https://adedata.arkansas.gov/statewide/ReportList/Schools/EnrollmentByGrade.aspx?year=26&search=1305010&pagesize=10

https://adedata.arkansas.gov/statewide/ReportList/Schools/EnrollmentByGrade.aspx?year=25&search=1305010&pagesize=10
                              

http://members.ahsaa.org/public/userfiles/Admin/2018-2020Classication.pdf


Their 2017-2018 total was 194 and their 2018-2019 total was 190. So their average could drop below 200 with the next reclassification calculation.  Historically that's been close to the 3A and 2A dividing line.

Very interesting how the reclassification numbers are figured.

Thought it was from just the latest year class enrollment numbers & didn't go that far back.

Uses the three year's combined previous enrollment class sizes, takes the average, & voila, there you have it.

Thanks for the info. You must be a school administrator to know all these stats.

[MR#1]

I think that it's important to consider the competition that exists in the town where the school is located. For example, consider fast food chains. In Rison, there is not a fast food chain (such as McDonald's, Sonic, Taco Bell, etc.). In other towns, for example Brinkley, there are many fast food employment opportunities. If you are a 16-18 year old student from a low-income family, are you going to play high school football or work at a fast food restaurant? I do believe that this is a factor for student participation at many schools.

To all: Happy Thanksgiving!

Safe travelings to all tomorrow. And, Go Cats!!! Beat Lamar!!!

[Jimbo Morphis]

I think that it's important to consider the competition that exists in the town where the school is located. For example, consider fast food chains. In Rison, there is not a fast food chain (such as McDonald's, Sonic, Taco Bell, etc.). In other towns, for example Brinkley, there are many fast food employment opportunities. If you are a 16-18 year old student from a low-income family, are you going to play high school football or work at a fast food restaurant? I do believe that this is a factor for student participation at many schools.

To all: Happy Thanksgiving!

Safe travelings to all tomorrow. And, Go Cats!!! Beat Lamar!!!

Thats why we pay our players.

[blackandoldgold]

MR#1, great post & something that would most definitely affect team participation.

Oldman, funny post. BTW, what's the going rate?

[Coltfan2005]

I think that it's important to consider the competition that exists in the town where the school is located. For example, consider fast food chains. In Rison, there is not a fast food chain (such as McDonald's, Sonic, Taco Bell, etc.). In other towns, for example Brinkley, there are many fast food employment opportunities. If you are a 16-18 year old student from a low-income family, are you going to play high school football or work at a fast food restaurant? I do believe that this is a factor for student participation at many schools.

To all: Happy Thanksgiving!

Safe travelings to all tomorrow. And, Go Cats!!! Beat Lamar!!!

For most kids these days, you are going to do neither.

[Jimbo Morphis]

MR#1, great post & something that would most definitely affect team participation.

Oldman, funny post. BTW, what's the going rate?

Can't say because of privacy issues

[Hawgeye]

It would be interesting to see how that % of kids playing football to enrollment played out at member schools.

There was an argument going around several years ago that the private schools had a much larger number of males to females to pick their team from. Personally I have no clue.

Coach Totty is so tough training the kids that he generally hasn't had large numbers, usually in the thirties at best.
Their enrollment is up somewhat this year for them, hence more kids available for the team. Also I think the new artificial turf put in last year has attracted a few more kids too.

Right now looks can be somewhat deceiving as he has allowed freshman to move up to the varsity team since the junior high season is over.

I can't really speak for Arkansas private schools, but I can speak as a parent of two kids in private school in a neighboring state.

My children attend a private school that in enrollment, is A classification. Due to rules in the state they play 3A competition in athletics. The difference in public and private schools that I have seen first hand is the commitment from the student and the commitment from the school. Our school pushes for extracurricular involvement. Our students do not have homework. Our Christian school believes that time after school should be spent with family, involved in church, or involved in extracurricular activities. The school pushes athletics. Each student who plays a sport, is required to sign a "No Quit" contract. Our school is small, but we have 70 young men on the sidelines. Just guessing, but that is probably around 90% of males in 10-12 grades.

My children are younger, but even they must sign the "No Quit" contract. So, it starts young with the practice of finishing what you start.

Mine were in public schools for a while, and I grew up in Arkansas and attended public school. I always had a dislike for private schools because we always heard about recruiting, etc. Our school does not recruit. Our parents all attend a meeting before the school year informing us not to speak to families about attending the school based on athletic merit. In our state though, public schools are always accused of recruiting as well. So who knows?

[bleudog]

Very interesting how the reclassification numbers are figured.

Thought it was from just the latest year class enrollment numbers & didn't go that far back.

Uses the three year's combined previous enrollment class sizes, takes the average, & voila, there you have it.

Thanks for the info. You must be a school administrator to know all these stats.

You're welcome. 

I've never been on a school's payroll.   

I'm just the Dad of a former player. 

I learned a few things to help enlighten the Dragon haters.  Some of that stuff comes in handy ever once in a while for other purposes. 

[HorseFeathers]

I learned a lot of stuff from Hating on those dragons over the years 😎....and just my curiousity of why things are the way they are...

[bleudog]

I learned a lot of stuff from Hating on those dragons over the years 😎....and just my curiosity of why things are the way they are...

Curiosity without an agenda is a good and honorable thing. 

[blackandoldgold]

I can't really speak for Arkansas private schools, but I can speak as a parent of two kids in private school in a neighboring state.

My children attend a private school that in enrollment, is A classification. Due to rules in the state they play 3A competition in athletics. The difference in public and private schools that I have seen first hand is the commitment from the student and the commitment from the school. Our school pushes for extracurricular involvement. Our students do not have homework. Our Christian school believes that time after school should be spent with family, involved in church, or involved in extracurricular activities. The school pushes athletics. Each student who plays a sport, is required to sign a "No Quit" contract. Our school is small, but we have 70 young men on the sidelines. Just guessing, but that is probably around 90% of males in 10-12 grades.

My children are younger, but even they must sign the "No Quit" contract. So, it starts young with the practice of finishing what you start.

Mine were in public schools for a while, and I grew up in Arkansas and attended public school. I always had a dislike for private schools because we always heard about recruiting, etc. Our school does not recruit. Our parents all attend a meeting before the school year informing us not to speak to families about attending the school based on athletic merit. In our state though, public schools are always accused of recruiting as well. So who knows?

Got a granddaughter that has attended a local private Christian school from Pre-K to now eighth grade. She has certainly enjoyed her time there, as much as a kid can enjoy being in school that is.