Stability in 4-A

[Tigerdad2]

Well, will Berryville take all these things into consideration when hiring a new coach or will they make another bad hire and be the same old Berryville?

[IPROFB]

They will probably hire one of the men on staff unless they can get Tice to come up and coach.

[beach bum]

They will probably hire one of the men on staff unless they can get Tice to come up and coach.

I hope this wasn't written with a straight face?

[IPROFB]

They will probably hire one of the men on staff unless they can get Tice to come up and coach.

I hope this wasn't written with a straight face?

I bet they hire from within

[TIGER101]

In the wake of what is going on in towns like Berryville and others we can all name.  I would like to hear opinions on why we all believe there are some schools who just seem to have "it" most every year and why others just keep struggling over and over again in trying to build a program.

I think the first and most important thing is stability at the head coaching position.  I look at a small town like PG.  We as fans don't always have to agree with every call in every situation.  Some will most definitely say that PG's offense is quote " to simple, don't throw it enough, to much old style " end quote.  All could be true, but he has shown stability and stuck with it for 20 plus years.  Now the kids start running his system at the 4th grade level, so by the time they get to him in high school it just make sense.
I know other schools like Stuttgart,  Nashville,  Warren, Malvern, and Pottsville have all been great programs in a consistent year in year out way, and I am sure part will be due to good coaching.  On the other hand you though you need quality parents and kids to make the consistency stay.

im sorry but you shouldn't even put Pottsville in the category with Nashville,Warren,Mallvern and Stuttgart.Not even close to the programs those are!!!!

IMO I do not agree.  Pottsville is a lot like some of the smaller tradition teams we have talked about.  Not everyone can be Alabama.   This still doesn't mean they don't have a very respectable program.  Pottsville will get more out of less as anyone.  I respect that program as much if not more than some of the power teams who put player after player in division 1 programs.

[esgibson00]

They will probably hire one of the men on staff unless they can get Tice to come up and coach.

I hope this wasn't written with a straight face?

I bet they hire from within

Maybe Berryville will think outside of the box and hire someone that wants to be there long term and build the program. I know just the guy.

[beach bum]

They will probably hire one of the men on staff unless they can get Tice to come up and coach.

I hope this wasn't written with a straight face?

I bet they hire from within

Maybe Berryville will think outside of the box and hire someone that wants to be there long term and build the program. I know just the guy.

I agree, I would think a guy with some sort of ties to the conference would be the right hire and be willing to hang around a little bit with that familiarity.

[esgibson00]

They will probably hire one of the men on staff unless they can get Tice to come up and coach.

I hope this wasn't written with a straight face?

I bet they hire from within

Maybe Berryville will think outside of the box and hire someone that wants to be there long term and build the program. I know just the guy.

I agree, I would think a guy with some sort of ties to the conference would be the right hire and be willing to hang around a little bit with that familiarity.

Well it will be interesting if they don't hire within. But i'm putting it our there. I'd love that job. I was born and raised in Berryville for about 8 years and then moved but have come back every year two or three time s a year to visit and hang out with family. Seems like Berryville has some nice facilites, and at one point cared about football. But I hear a lot has changed and the band is this most important part. NOt sure how true that is. 

[beach bum]

Yea I am from PG and its sad because when I left they were competitive still. Berryville used to be the last place you wanted to play a road game in any sport in that conference. Now, its almost a guaranteed win it seems.

[esgibson00]

Yea I am from PG and its sad because when I left they were competitive still. Berryville used to be the last place you wanted to play a road game in any sport in that conference. Now, its almost a guaranteed win it seems.

Well I'm definitely up for the challenge so if any coaches in here want to give me a good recommendation I'd appreciate it. LOL

[Tigerdad2]

Yea I am from PG and its sad because when I left they were competitive still. Berryville used to be the last place you wanted to play a road game in any sport in that conference. Now, its almost a guaranteed win it seems.

Well I'm definitely up for the challenge so if any coaches in here want to give me a good recommendation I'd appreciate it. LOL

What's your resume?

[cuckoobird]

Yea I am from PG and its sad because when I left they were competitive still. Berryville used to be the last place you wanted to play a road game in any sport in that conference. Now, its almost a guaranteed win it seems.

Well I'm definitely up for the challenge so if any coaches in here want to give me a good recommendation I'd appreciate it. LOL

What's your resume?

All you need to know is in his personal text

[esgibson00]

Well i'm probably not as qualified as some, but seems like even with qualifications some of these coaches aren't winning. Might be time for some new blood in the area or at least time to shake things up a little bit.

[SandRattler]

As bad as this hurts I will have to agree with Bigredhog1971. Pottsville had 3 decent years but what did they do before that? The Perry years were great but that's not a heritage it was just good Perry years. Decent coach but they come and go. IMO heritage is about winning or having winning teams for a decade or decades. No I am not saying Dardanelle has a winning heritage either but Pottsville has lost to Dardanelle in the last decade more than they have won! Like I said just my opinion.

In the wake of what is going on in towns like Berryville and others we can all name.  I would like to hear opinions on why we all believe there are some schools who just seem to have "it" most every year and why others just keep struggling over and over again in trying to build a program.

I think the first and most important thing is stability at the head coaching position.  I look at a small town like PG.  We as fans don't always have to agree with every call in every situation.  Some will most definitely say that PG's offense is quote " to simple, don't throw it enough, to much old style " end quote.  All could be true, but he has shown stability and stuck with it for 20 plus years.  Now the kids start running his system at the 4th grade level, so by the time they get to him in high school it just make sense.
I know other schools like Stuttgart,  Nashville,  Warren, Malvern, and Pottsville have all been great programs in a consistent year in year out way, and I am sure part will be due to good coaching.  On the other hand you though you need quality parents and kids to make the consistency stay.

im sorry but you shouldn't even put Pottsville in the category with Nashville,Warren,Mallvern and Stuttgart.Not even close to the programs those are!!!!

IMO I do not agree.  Pottsville is a lot like some of the smaller tradition teams we have talked about.  Not everyone can be Alabama.   This still doesn't mean they don't have a very respectable program.  Pottsville will get more out of less as anyone.  I respect that program as much if not more than some of the power teams who put player after player in division 1 programs.

[TIGER101]

I agree with some of what you are saying..

[beach bum]

Who does everyone have as the 2 most stable programs in each conference? In the 1-4A its Prairie Grove followed by Gravette due to counting on them finishing in the top half of the conference each  year, Shiloh doesn't count. The 2-4A its Stuttgart and Newport, Stuttgart has the rings and Newport has that lengthy playoff streak. The 3-4A has Gosnell and Highland lately. In the 4-4A I say Ozark still even with the last 2 down seasons followed by Pottsville just banking on Coach Rust keeping it going in the future for Pottsville. The 7-4A has too many good ones so I will list them all. Nashville, Malvern, Arkadelphia, and Fountain Lake have been rolling for years (will Fountain Lake maintain that if they remain in 4A).... Mena has to prove it for a few more years to get on the list. They are picking up steam though. The 8-4A has Warren dominating with Star City having the slight #2 nod over Hamburg. All the teams can be counted on to be there come November. People will have better rankings for other conferences because of your years of watching that specific league. I thought mine was a decent overview at least.

[whippersnapper]

Now I guess for my 2 cents on the 4-4a stability. YES Dardanelle has more wins over Pottsville, but tell me again how long Pottsville has had a football program? 12ish years or so. Let's take a look at this though both Rust and Price got to their current jobs the same season 2007. Here are the numbers, Rust: 58-31-2, 91 total games, won 64% of the games, avg 7-4 record. Price: 58-35, 93 total games, won 62% of the games, avg 7-4 record. I am a big fan of both coaches but I'd give a slight edge to Rust to the simple fact Pottsville was literally nothing till he got there. Price was handed the keys to a team coming off an 8-4 season. Rust also has 2 conference championships to Price's 1. Since Booneville has left I'd have these 2 teams 1A and 1B in the conference right now as far as stability goes. Although I do think their neighbor to the north Dover will be more consistent under Smith, so watch out for the pirates.

[cuckoobird]

Who does everyone have as the 2 most stable programs in each conference? In the 1-4A its Prairie Grove followed by Gravette due to counting on them finishing in the top half of the conference each  year, Shiloh doesn't count. The 2-4A its Stuttgart and Newport, Stuttgart has the rings and Newport has that lengthy playoff streak. The 3-4A has Gosnell and Highland lately. In the 4-4A I say Ozark still even with the last 2 down seasons followed by Pottsville just banking on Coach Rust keeping it going in the future for Pottsville. The 7-4A has too many good ones so I will list them all. Nashville, Malvern, Arkadelphia, and Fountain Lake have been rolling for years (will Fountain Lake maintain that if they remain in 4A).... Mena has to prove it for a few more years to get on the list. They are picking up steam though. The 8-4A has Warren dominating with Star City having the slight #2 nod over Hamburg. All the teams can be counted on to be there come November. People will have better rankings for other conferences because of your years of watching that specific league. I thought mine was a decent overview at least.

Dollarway is above StarCity in the 8-4a. Possibly above warren as well

[beach bum]

I forgot about Dollarway. They are obviously #2 in the 8-4A.... I think I forgot since they tank in the playoffs lately.

[TIGER101]

I forgot about Dollarway. They are obviously #2 in the 8-4A.... I think I forgot since they tank in the playoffs lately.

Koobird will love that!!!!!

[HorseFeathers]

Now I guess for my 2 cents on the 4-4a stability. YES Dardanelle has more wins over Pottsville, but tell me again how long Pottsville has had a football program? 12ish years or so. Let's take a look at this though both Rust and Price got to their current jobs the same season 2007. Here are the numbers, Rust: 58-31-2, 91 total games, won 64% of the games, avg 7-4 record. Price: 58-35, 93 total games, won 62% of the games, avg 7-4 record. I am a big fan of both coaches but I'd give a slight edge to Rust to the simple fact Pottsville was literally nothing till he got there. Price was handed the keys to a team coming off an 8-4 season. Rust also has 2 conference championships to Price's 1. Since Booneville has left I'd have these 2 teams 1A and 1B in the conference right now as far as stability goes. Although I do think their neighbor to the north Dover will be more consistent under Smith, so watch out for the pirates.

I'm curious to see if it's the Coach or that Dover has just hit another pocket of talent...That seems to be the trend at Dover..Be really really(Lose to Lincoln by 70) awful for a couple years, then good to really good for a couple of years...

[IPROFB]

They will probably hire one of the men on staff unless they can get Tice to come up and coach.

I hope this wasn't written with a straight face?

I bet they hire from within

Maybe Berryville will think outside of the box and hire someone that wants to be there long term and build the program. I know just the guy.

My sources say it's a done deal. They are hiring someone on staff

[gameoflife]

Has the board made that a reality?

[LJ06]

Who does everyone have as the 2 most stable programs in each conference? In the 1-4A its Prairie Grove followed by Gravette due to counting on them finishing in the top half of the conference each  year, Shiloh doesn't count. The 2-4A its Stuttgart and Newport, Stuttgart has the rings and Newport has that lengthy playoff streak. The 3-4A has Gosnell and Highland lately. In the 4-4A I say Ozark still even with the last 2 down seasons followed by Pottsville just banking on Coach Rust keeping it going in the future for Pottsville. The 7-4A has too many good ones so I will list them all. Nashville, Malvern, Arkadelphia, and Fountain Lake have been rolling for years (will Fountain Lake maintain that if they remain in 4A).... Mena has to prove it for a few more years to get on the list. They are picking up steam though. The 8-4A has Warren dominating with Star City having the slight #2 nod over Hamburg. All the teams can be counted on to be there come November. People will have better rankings for other conferences because of your years of watching that specific league. I thought mine was a decent overview at least.

Dollarway is above StarCity in the 8-4a. Possibly above warren as well

In conference play its 1A Warren and 1B Dollarway.  During playoffs, no comparison Dollarway has to learn to quit tanking.

[Romeo]

Who does everyone have as the 2 most stable programs in each conference? In the 1-4A its Prairie Grove followed by Gravette due to counting on them finishing in the top half of the conference each  year, Shiloh doesn't count. The 2-4A its Stuttgart and Newport, Stuttgart has the rings and Newport has that lengthy playoff streak. The 3-4A has Gosnell and Highland lately. In the 4-4A I say Ozark still even with the last 2 down seasons followed by Pottsville just banking on Coach Rust keeping it going in the future for Pottsville. The 7-4A has too many good ones so I will list them all. Nashville, Malvern, Arkadelphia, and Fountain Lake have been rolling for years (will Fountain Lake maintain that if they remain in 4A).... Mena has to prove it for a few more years to get on the list. They are picking up steam though. The 8-4A has Warren dominating with Star City having the slight #2 nod over Hamburg. All the teams can be counted on to be there come November. People will have better rankings for other conferences because of your years of watching that specific league. I thought mine was a decent overview at least.

Dollarway is above StarCity in the 8-4a. Possibly above warren as well

In conference play its 1A Warren and 1B Dollarway.  During playoffs, no comparison Dollarway has to learn to quit tanking.

They have to learn their assigned referees are not going to be there for them in the playoffs.

[beach bum]

Nashville and Warren run supreme in 4A ahead of anyone right now....

[cuckoobird]

Taint doesn't have any hardware lately for this statement to be relevant

[LJ06]

Taint doesn't have any hardware lately for this statement to be relevant

Was thinking the same.  Haven't been to the rock since when 2007?

[polksalet]

Coaching matters a lot, but Bossman or myself could coach Nashville to more wins every year than half of 4a.

[cuckoobird]

Coaching matters a lot, but Bossman or myself could coach Nashville to more wins every year than half of 4a.

If you've got that much talent, then are you saying, UNDERACHEIVMENT?

[polksalet]

They have spellcheck in Stuttgart.  I know that for a fact.

[cuckoobird]

Great deflection. I pictured you as a soccer player but not a goalie

[sevenof400]

Great deflection. I pictured you as a soccer player but not a goalie

What does hockey have to do with this?   

[TIGER101]

Who does everyone have as the 2 most stable programs in each conference? In the 1-4A its Prairie Grove followed by Gravette due to counting on them finishing in the top half of the conference each  year, Shiloh doesn't count. The 2-4A its Stuttgart and Newport, Stuttgart has the rings and Newport has that lengthy playoff streak. The 3-4A has Gosnell and Highland lately. In the 4-4A I say Ozark still even with the last 2 down seasons followed by Pottsville just banking on Coach Rust keeping it going in the future for Pottsville. The 7-4A has too many good ones so I will list them all. Nashville, Malvern, Arkadelphia, and Fountain Lake have been rolling for years (will Fountain Lake maintain that if they remain in 4A).... Mena has to prove it for a few more years to get on the list. They are picking up steam though. The 8-4A has Warren dominating with Star City having the slight #2 nod over Hamburg. All the teams can be counted on to be there come November. People will have better rankings for other conferences because of your years of watching that specific league. I thought mine was a decent overview at least.

Dollarway is above StarCity in the 8-4a. Possibly above warren as well

In conference play its 1A Warren and 1B Dollarway.  During playoffs, no comparison Dollarway has to learn to quit tanking.

They have to learn their assigned referees are not going to be there for them in the playoffs.

is it really that obvious?

[cuckoobird]

No, they just hate losing to them. Now it is that bad at other 8-4a schools

[LJ06]

No, they just hate losing to them. Now it is that bad at other 8-4a schools

[Superjack45]

There's several factors that are relevant to a program's success such as kids, parents, community and administration. However, I've always believed that the most important aspect to a program is the head coach. The head coach is basically the CEO of the football program. Just like a regular business CEO, much of the decisions that the head coach makes is crucial to the long term success of the program. I think all coaches have a vision of what they want their program to be when they take a head coaching job. When you inherit a situation such as Bentonville or Greenwood, there's not many changes that need to be made. But when you go into a coaching job such as Waldron or LR Fair, its all about culture change. That's changing the mindset of the kids, changing discipline and accountability, changing the way they practice, workout, eat, etc. Great coaches build great cultures, develop leaders who strengthen the culture, and then reinforce what their culture stands for.

Warren has had a lot of success over the past decade. Much of that can be attributed to Coach Hembree who became coach in 2000. For all of our recent success, Warren hasn't been a tradition power program. Prior to 2001, our last conference title was in 1963. When Coach Hembree took over, he changed the entire culture of the program. In the early 2000s, it was extremely rare to see a seventh grade team run a spread offense, but that's the kind of changes he made. There's a high level of expectations and standards at Warren. That's the culture that has been built, which is why we've had three state championships and eleven conference titles in the past 15 years.

I'm a firm believer that no situation is impossible to fix. But a coach has to able to convince players to buy in to his vision and trust the process. With the situation going on in Camden, its also important to note that coaches need to have support from their administration and community as well.

I agree with you on that,but back when the seniors that just won the state title were in the 5th grade the parents of the kids got this traveling pee wee team together and started playing other kids from out of towns rather than playing at the Y.That's when coach Bo being the coach that he is came together with us and got involved and the kids started running the base offense of the lumberjacks and the rest is history. I think that with the interest that the parents and community showed in the  Lumberjacks has help the kids get motivated in wanting to be a champion. I will say this also, we as parents and community need to support our kids in a lot more sports than just football. With the support being there it will help the kids in their quest to be better in whatever sport they participate in,I have seen kids at FB,BB,and Track Meets with no family support, not knocking you working parents but its vital for us as parents to support our kids show some interest in what they do ask them about their sport.I ask my son everyday how did it go in the weight gym or at practice period. We all want our kids to be the best but we gotta show them that the love is there whether they win or loose. I think schools like Stuttgart and Nashville and Warren to name a few when it comes to football they are just at a different level then some of the others not all just more than half.I am so happy Bo came to Warren, a coach at Warren said a long time back (Marion Glover) that if Warren ever get the right coach that he would have a gold mine of talent. This was said in the mid eighties after he went to PB but he was right.

[The Ref]

Warren has had a lot of success over the past decade. Much of that can be attributed to Coach Hembree who became coach in 2000. For all of our recent success, Warren hasn't been a tradition power program. Prior to 2001, our last conference title was in 1963. When Coach Hembree took over, he changed the entire culture of the program. In the early 2000s, it was extremely rare to see a seventh grade team run a spread offense, but that's the kind of changes he made. There's a high level of expectations and standards at Warren. That's the culture that has been built, which is why we've had three state championships and eleven conference titles in the past 15 years.

Has any team in the state of AR produced more D1 talent than Warren since 02' ?  Rare for a 4A school to produce so many.  I counted 21 D1 football players from Warren since 2002!  That's not counting the kids who had the talent but didn't have the test scores/grades! I wonder how many D2 players the school has produced during this same time span?

As much as coaching, community support, facilities, boosters help to sustain a program,   having a major talent advantage over your competition will allow a program excel annually.

[beach bum]

Warren has had a lot of success over the past decade. Much of that can be attributed to Coach Hembree who became coach in 2000. For all of our recent success, Warren hasn't been a tradition power program. Prior to 2001, our last conference title was in 1963. When Coach Hembree took over, he changed the entire culture of the program. In the early 2000s, it was extremely rare to see a seventh grade team run a spread offense, but that's the kind of changes he made. There's a high level of expectations and standards at Warren. That's the culture that has been built, which is why we've had three state championships and eleven conference titles in the past 15 years.

Has any team in the state of AR produced more D1 talent than Warren since 02' ?  Rare for a 4A school to produce so many.  I counted 21 D1 football players from Warren since 2002!  That's not counting the kids who had the talent but didn't have the test scores/grades! I wonder how many D2 players the school has produced during this same time span?

As much as coaching, community support, facilities, boosters help to sustain a program,   having a major talent advantage over your competition will allow a program excel annually.

Holy smokes, 21?? We are about to have our first is the sad thing.

[AirWarren]

Ref, since coach Hembree took the reigns, he has sent probably 40+ kids to the next level to get an education and have a chance to keep playing football.

[beach bum]

Ref, since coach Hembree took the reigns, he has sent probably 40+ kids to the next level to get an education and have a chance to keep playing football.

I agree with what he is saying about yes obviously Warren has talent but what is different than the other 8-4A schools. Why aren't they dominating too? Its the equation of talent, coaching up consistency, and building a program of tradition. Talent is the key but by no means does that equate to automatic success.

[AirWarren]

You are correct. It takes coaching, families, support, and good facilities to win consistently and produce. Warren has all those. Throw in a talent pool that doesn't end and it's the perfect storm in small town Arkansas high school football.

[gameoflife]

Warren has done well, for sure.  But you hilighted a very important key fact, that long list of talent.  They have had a remarkable list of talented players over the years. 

[TIGER101]

So does great coaching make great players or does great players make great coaches???

[SUGARTOWN]

So does great coaching make great players or does great players make great coaches???

Great players can make coaches LOOK great, but that doesn't always mean they're great coaches. Most of the time if coaches have great players I think they just need to put them in a situation where they can maximize their potential and just get out of their way. A lot of coaches try to OVER coach and that can do more harm to your team than good IMO.

Conversely, great coaches can take average or good players and make them look great by using their abilities to the fullest. Great coaches can take a team of average to good players and beat a team with a couple of great players and not much else if they have a good system...

[Tigerdad2]

Well said

[TIGER101]

So does great coaching make great players or does great players make great coaches???

Great players can make coaches LOOK great, but that doesn't always mean they're great coaches. Most of the time if coaches have great players I think they just need to put them in a situation where they can maximize their potential and just get out of their way. A lot of coaches try to OVER coach and that can do more harm to your team than good IMO.

Conversely, great coaches can take average or good players and make them look great by using their abilities to the fullest. Great coaches can take a team of average to good players and beat a team with a couple of great players and not much else if they have a good system...

I completely agree.  That's why you play the game.  A coach can be a schools greatest asset or its biggest liability.  I was just wondering what a couple of other posters answer would be.

[gameoflife]

utilizing talent whatever the level is key to good coaching, that happens with a good coach regardless of whether they win or lose.  Winning requires a talent level at least close to those teams you play against.

[Superjack45]

I think you all have valid points,about coaching and facilities. One vital point is that the kids have to buy into the program that the coach has implemented and also I do believe that a important part of having a strong program is a weight program. I have seen The Lumberjacks make strides through out the years in that department but I do think that Bo needs a more rigid program,especially when you only have a team like he had last year with only 34 players. But that's just my opinion.

[TIGER101]

I think you all have valid points,about coaching and facilities. One vital point is that the kids have to buy into the program that the coach has implemented and also I do believe that a important part of having a strong program is a weight program. I have seen The Lumberjacks make strides through out the years in that department but I do think that Bo needs a more rigid program,especially when you only have a team like he had last year with only 34 players. But that's just my opinion.

IMO, Warren has never really looked like a "BIG" weight room type team.  In the past they have just put more athletes on the field than the other team, and so far it has worked for them.