Discuss the 3A Top 10

[BigMan15]

Seeing the scores tonight i would say that cossate is out, BHG in, Jessieville out, Centerpoint in, valley out, maybe marshall in..

[neds]

Jessieville will take someone down in the regionals

[owl84]

McGehee beat Drew Central 62-45 at Drew Central last night.

[jr17]

Reeling off of a tough loss to jville, mayflower played some of the best ball they have all year last night against Bismark. Not putting then back in the top 10 yet. But don't count them out.

[Jimbo Morphis]

you can find most athletic schedules at the particular school's website

Looking at their schoo website, and I've come to teh conclusion that Mcgehee isn't aware that they actually have a basketball team..

well it's not football.

[WildcatGrandpa13]

Agree 100% , everyone is beatable.
That said , I only see three teams capable of winning it this year.

Any team is beatable on any given night. You see that throughout the year in every level of basketball. However, with that being said, and I'm not trying to be a homer, but a team would have to play almost a perfect game to beat ECS. They are better than they were last year, and no one in 3A has really come close to beating them. Should be interesting when the good matchups start happening during regionals and state.

[WPWells]

How easy you're forgetting how close Charleston was to beating ECS last year...

[cdelaney]

How easy you're forgetting how close Charleston was to beating ECS last year...

No one at ECS is forgetting that. I think there could be several challenges for ECS in Regionals and State. But I do think they are significantly better than last year and I just don't know if that is true for Charleston. Do you think it is?

[WPWells]

I think Charleston is more resilient than last year. We've seen that so far this year with the way we fight through the fourth quarter. If it's close going into the fourth then Ward will take over and more than likely Charleston will win. Andrew Smith has also played well lately

And I just took WildcatGrandpa's post to mean that he was somewhat underestimating a team that almost beat ECS last year

[HeadTiger]

I'm not real sure why everyone is taking valley out of the top 10 and replacing them with Marshall?

Valley is still 2nd in the conference. They have played significantly better teams and lost to Viliona 55-51. They beat Marshall by 10+ at valley and lost by 4 at Marshall? Not knocking on Marshall but their Schedule wasn't nearly as tough as Valleys before conference started.

They are pretty even teams but how can you put them in front of Valley?

[#EagleStrong]

I feel like some of it may just be confirmation bias. A lot of people didn't expect that much from Valley Springs without Keeton Tennison, so they're quick to criticize. Plus people just tend to, understandably, treat the most recent result as the most accurate measure when comparing teams. I feel like there are about six teams that are sure-fire top 10, and about 10 or so teams that all have a serious case for the other four spots. Making those distinctions is tough, and it's easy to make that swap when they go head-to-head. But Valley is clearly top ten caliber, and I think most everyone would agree with that, for what it's worth.

[yellowjackethooper]

Following our conference closely I think they are both top 10. I just couldn't put 3 teams in. Marshall is 16-4 according to boonecosports. And that game at valley I was told marshalls stud was taken out of the game early with an injury and was a non factor. Last night it said he had 22 I think. I'm not punishing them for that. Bobcats who all has marshall played non conference? I say it's a coin flip with them two. Just went with Marshall for now.

[HeadTiger]

Both top ten in the state? I don't think so lol. That would put 3 teams from the 3a 1 east in the top 10. Nearly 1/3 of the 10. No way this conference is that strong

[yellowjackethooper]

I just feel like after the 1st 4 it's a crapshoot. And I went with Marshall over Valley because they beat them last night. So for this week I have Marshall. We will see it on a neutral court in district tourny I'm sure. It will all play out.

[HeadTiger]

I just feel like after the 1st 4 it's a crapshoot. And I went with Marshall over Valley because they beat them last night. So for this week I have Marshall. We will see it on a neutral court in district tourny I'm sure. It will all play out.

So your only reason is because they won last night by 4? I could care less I just think the reason you have them over valley is a bit dumb. But I agree it will play out in Districts.

[bobcats]

Following our conference closely I think they are both top 10. I just couldn't put 3 teams in. Marshall is 16-4 according to boonecosports. And that game at valley I was told marshalls stud was taken out of the game early with an injury and was a non factor. Last night it said he had 22 I think. I'm not punishing them for that. Bobcats who all has marshall played non conference? I say it's a coin flip with them two. Just went with Marshall for now.

Football schools are at a huge disadvantage up here.  We can schedule 20 games and 2 tournaments.  Non football get 28 and 3 tournaments.  With 9 teams in our conference that is 16 games, so that leaves 4 non conference games plus the 2 tourn.  We beat Eureka and Berryville then started conference play.  Berryville is usually a solid 4a school, but they ended up being down this year.  Played 1 game in the Billy P Classic at Flippin, when we agreed to go was told we were playing a team from Missouri, they ended up pulling out and we ended up playing Western Grove.  Our 4th non confer game was Kingston, who is not very good but you need one of those so your bench players can get some playing time.  The two tourn were Green Forrest and Clinton.  We lost to Huntsville by 15 at GF and Bauxite by 12 (was a 4 point game till the last couple minutes) at Clinton.  Won our other games at those tourneys.  Huntsville is 19-2, one of the top 4A schools in the state and Bauxite is expected to win their 4A conf.  By the way, A lot of people  on this board are high on Jessieville, Bauxite beat them by 29 in a tourn at BHG. 

Your comments on the game at Valley are correct, plus our soph post player who had 10 pts and 13 boards last night picked up 2 quick fouls at Valley and was also a non factor.

[bobcats]

I'm not real sure why everyone is taking valley out of the top 10 and replacing them with Marshall?

Valley is still 2nd in the conference. They have played significantly better teams and lost to Viliona 55-51. They beat Marshall by 10+ at valley and lost by 4 at Marshall? Not knocking on Marshall but their Schedule wasn't nearly as tough as Valleys before conference started.

They are pretty even teams but how can you put them in front of Valley?

10 + ?  It was 10, no plus.  Also it was 8 with less than 5 seconds left and Hougue drives to the basket and gets fouled.  Who doesn't dribble out the clock in that situation.  The game last night was 6 and we let Hogue have a meaningless basket at the buzzer to make it 4.

[HeadTiger]

A smart team/player/coach does that. Those 2 points could make the difference between 2nd and 3rd in the conference this year.

Regardless Valley beat Marshall by more at home then Marshall did and has a better non conference resumè. That was the only point I was trying to make. That there's no reason to suddenly jump Marshall in the top ten just because they beat the second best team by 4 at home.

[WPWells]

I'll drop Charleston to #4 after tonight's loss. I personally don't feel that they deserve to drop much lower than that. Thoughts?

[@CurryLegion]

I'll drop Charleston to #4 after tonight's loss. I personally don't feel that they deserve to drop much lower than that. Thoughts?

definitely not below 4. I agree that dropping them is appropriate.

[WPWells]

General consensus has been that Paris is #5 or so, and Charleston has a victory at Paris. That's my thought process there

[HeadTiger]

I'll drop Charleston to #4 after tonight's loss. I personally don't feel that they deserve to drop much lower than that. Thoughts?

So what is your new top 4?

[WPWells]

1. ECS
2. Cedar Ridge
3. Flippin
4. Charleston

[#EagleStrong]

Lamar is a notoriously hard place to play, and they shot lights out tonight. Charleston couldn't buy a bucket. Matthew Ward was cold the entire night. Not indicative of how good Charleston really is, but certainly warranting of a drop to 4 behind ECS, CR, and Flippin. No one else has the resume Charleston does, except possibly Paris, but Charleston won the head-to-head at Paris. #4 is the appropriate spot.

[BigMan15]

This may upset some people but i think ctown is #5 behind paris simply because of their track record lately mainly the lamar loss and the near loss to danville also the close game with paris and the 3 quarters game with two rivers...i would not like to be the next person to play ctown after that loss though..this loss may help ctown in the long run..

1 ECS
2 CR
3 Flippin
4 Paris
5 Ctown

On a side note i could see the arguement on the head to head..

[WPWells]

That's a terrible argument and you know it

Any way you slice it, Charleston won on Paris' home court

[BigMan15]

U can see my arguement though charleston beats danville by a buzzer beater when the day before paris drops 87 on them and wins by like 30..paris beats lamar by 12...head to head yes but i have the feeling we really didnt have home court advantage if u know what i mean..at worst i could see them tied for now and see how charleston plays danville friday..

[WPWells]

Let's see how many people agree with you. Head to head is the only thing that matters between two virtually even teams. Even though they were close, with the exception of tonight, Charleston has been going to other teams' home courts, taking their best shot, and still winning.

[#EagleStrong]

I can't realistically put Paris ahead of Charleston, not with the head-to-head. Sure Paris mercy-ruled Danville while Charleston needed a buzzer beater. Two Rivers also beat Lamar at Lamar, but Charleston blew out TR with a 26-4 fourth quarter. Score comparisons like that just don't always mean that much, and teams match up differently than one another, but it should show that the gap between Charleston and Paris is very small right now.

[BigMan15]

Like i said i could go either way but for those who think our conference is weak...play paris or ctown right now and find out..our conference could go deep in state..12th ill give u this agruement..i get the next one..deal??

[WPWells]

I mean I'm putting Charleston ahead of Paris right now, but obviously if Paris goes into Charleston and wins then they'll move ahead. I think that's understood

[Skip Baymore]

Agree 100% , everyone is beatable.
That said , I only see three teams capable of winning it this year.

Any team is beatable on any given night. You see that throughout the year in every level of basketball. However, with that being said, and I'm not trying to be a homer, but a team would have to play almost a perfect game to beat ECS. They are better than they were last year, and no one in 3A has really come close to beating them. Should be interesting when the good matchups start happening during regionals and state.

Im with you on every word here.  ECS is the team to beat in 3A.  Though they shouldn't "order the rings" as some schools fans might post if they were in the same situation , they are the clear favorites in 3A basketball.

[#EagleStrong]

Just consider this if you think 3A-4 is weak or doubt Charleston and Paris.

Last night for Paris, Gage Hampton had 29 points, 11 rebounds, and five blocks against Two Rivers. He's far and away their best post player. Earlier in the year, they went to Roland, Oklahoma, a notoriously hard place to play. The Rangers had only lost two home games in six years. Hampton was injured in that game, chipped off part of his wrist. Brandon Fenner, who everyone seems to think is the only player Paris has, only had 10 points in that game, his second-lowest point total of the season. Paris still won.

Then they went to Alma, with Hampton still sidelined with that injury, and won 74-71. Alma was ranked as high as #6 overall at 12-1, their only loss to Paris, before losing to Van Buren...who Charleston played within a point...without their football players. That same Charleston team went into Paris and won too.

The whole "All Paris has is Fenner" and "All Charleston has is Ward" talk is inaccurate. I base that on resume, not speculation. Better than ECS? No, but so far only Parkview (you know, #1 overall ranked Parkview?) and McClellan have been in the state. And only barely. But before you go thinking that Cedar Ridge and Flippin, two very, very good and deserving teams, are head and shoulders above those two, just consider what they've accomplished this year. That's all I ask.

[PASS]

Let's see how many people agree with you. Head to head is the only thing that matters between two virtually even teams. Even though they were close, with the exception of tonight, Charleston has been going to other teams' home courts, taking their best shot, and still winning.

If head to head is the only thong that matters, I guess Lamar should be #4 then. Just using your own logic.

[WPWells]

Hmmmmm is that what I said? Think you better read my post again. Not sure how Lamar and Charleston can be construed as being "virtually even."

Good try though!

[neds]

I think Charleston is more resilient than last year. We've seen that so far this year with the way we fight through the fourth quarter. If it's close going into the fourth then Ward will take over and more than likely Charleston will win. Andrew Smith has also played well lately

And I just took WildcatGrandpa's post to mean that he was somewhat underestimating a team that almost beat ECS last year

This loss last night changes things in 3A

[WPWells]

It changes current rankings. I don't know how you can really say that it changes much more than that

[PASS]

It changes current rankings. I don't know how you can really say that it changes much more than that

You should go for a career in politics, you'd be good at it. I haven't seen anyone since Bill Clinton spin things in your favor as good as you do. #12thman4prez2016

[WPWells]

Well does Charleston losing now mean that there's no way that we'll beat ECS later?

[neds]

Well does Charleston losing now mean that there's no way that we'll beat ECS later?

Well I'm not sure who makes it out of that region now

[PASS]

Well does Charleston losing now mean that there's no way that we'll beat ECS later?

Somebody in 3A will beat ECS before end of year. Still think they are the best team though. Could be Charleston if they meet up.

[WPWells]

Here's what I think about region:

Whichever four teams from the 3A-4 make region will make state. 3A-4 is loaded and 3A-1W is down this year. I expect it to be:

Charleston
Paris
Two Rivers
And Danville/Lamar playing in district for that fourth spot

[#EagleStrong]

Well does Charleston losing now mean that there's no way that we'll beat ECS later?

Well I'm not sure who makes it out of that region now

Charleston's?

Charleston, Paris, Two Rivers, and the winner of Danville and Lamar at the district tournament. All five of those teams can and should beat anyone from the 1-West. It's a lopsided region. Lavaca has a chance to upset somebody, but they wouldn't be favored against any of the top five from the 4. West Fork, Greenland, Mansfield, Elkins, Cedarville, and Haas Hall would all be prohibitive underdogs as of now.

Lamar will still have a tough time climbing up the conference standings. They already lost to Two Rivers at home and still have to go to Charleston. Danville beat them in overtime on Tuesday. They need to beat Paris next week to have a realistic shot at the #3 or #2 spots since they already have three conference losses (Paris, TR, Danville), but they are clearly capable of doing just that.

[basketballjones]

It will probably be a clean sweep for the 4 but I could see WF or Lavaca sneaking up on a Danville or Lamar (Since those two are so dependent of one player, correct me if I am wrong). WF has the size and Lavaca could get hot and hit 10-13 3's. I remember watching Two Rivers last year in District against Charleston and was impressed especially when I found out how young they were.

[bobcats]

A smart team/player/coach does that. Those 2 points could make the difference between 2nd and 3rd in the conference this year.

Regardless Valley beat Marshall by more at home then Marshall did and has a better non conference resumè. That was the only point I was trying to make. That there's no reason to suddenly jump Marshall in the top ten just because they beat the second best team by 4 at home.

That better non conference resume that includes losing by 28 to 1A Izard County?

[neds]

Well does Charleston losing now mean that there's no way that we'll beat ECS later?

Somebody in 3A will beat ECS before end of year. Still think they are the best team though. Could be Charleston if they meet up.

You never know

[hawgsroll]

Just consider this if you think 3A-4 is weak or doubt Charleston and Paris.

Last night for Paris, Gage Hampton had 29 points, 11 rebounds, and five blocks against Two Rivers. He's far and away their best post player. Earlier in the year, they went to Roland, Oklahoma, a notoriously hard place to play. The Rangers had only lost two home games in six years. Hampton was injured in that game, chipped off part of his wrist. Brandon Fenner, who everyone seems to think is the only player Paris has, only had 10 points in that game, his second-lowest point total of the season. Paris still won.

Then they went to Alma, with Hampton still sidelined with that injury, and won 74-71. Alma was ranked as high as #6 overall at 12-1, their only loss to Paris, before losing to Van Buren...who Charleston played within a point...without their football players. That same Charleston team went into Paris and won too.

The whole "All Paris has is Fenner" and "All Charleston has is Ward" talk is inaccurate. I base that on resume, not speculation. Better than ECS? No, but so far only Parkview (you know, #1 overall ranked Parkview?) and McClellan have been in the state. And only barely. But before you go thinking that Cedar Ridge and Flippin, two very, very good and deserving teams, are head and shoulders above those two, just consider what they've accomplished this year. That's all I ask.

Who said that 3a-4 is weak or that they doubted Charleston or Paris?    And where in the world did you come up with ANYBODY thinking that Flippin or Cedar Ridge was head and shoulders above those two (i am assuming charleston and paris)?   It is amazing at how some people read into what other people say.   Maybe I am missing something but I don't think that anybody on here believes that.  It is very clear to me that most people on here are just not sure about a lot of things but there seems to be a couple of clear themes that are kind of consistent.   

1.   ECS is a clear #1.   (they can lose but they probably should not).
2.   Cedar Ridge, Flippin, Charleston, Paris, and McGehee are probably 2 thru 6 (no particular order but all have a decent shot to win at state)(and mayflower may work their way into this group).
3.   There are around 8 or 9 other teams that are capable of a big win or two but seem to lack the consistency of the top 6.  Two Rivers, Mayflower, Rivercrest, Cossatot, Centerpoint, Lamar, Danville, Valley, Marshall, and maybe a couple more (once again in no particular order)

I just hope that all the above teams play well the rest of the way and we have a great state tournament.

[#EagleStrong]

Just consider this if you think 3A-4 is weak or doubt Charleston and Paris.

Last night for Paris, Gage Hampton had 29 points, 11 rebounds, and five blocks against Two Rivers. He's far and away their best post player. Earlier in the year, they went to Roland, Oklahoma, a notoriously hard place to play. The Rangers had only lost two home games in six years. Hampton was injured in that game, chipped off part of his wrist. Brandon Fenner, who everyone seems to think is the only player Paris has, only had 10 points in that game, his second-lowest point total of the season. Paris still won.

Then they went to Alma, with Hampton still sidelined with that injury, and won 74-71. Alma was ranked as high as #6 overall at 12-1, their only loss to Paris, before losing to Van Buren...who Charleston played within a point...without their football players. That same Charleston team went into Paris and won too.

The whole "All Paris has is Fenner" and "All Charleston has is Ward" talk is inaccurate. I base that on resume, not speculation. Better than ECS? No, but so far only Parkview (you know, #1 overall ranked Parkview?) and McClellan have been in the state. And only barely. But before you go thinking that Cedar Ridge and Flippin, two very, very good and deserving teams, are head and shoulders above those two, just consider what they've accomplished this year. That's all I ask.

Who said that 3a-4 is weak or that they doubted Charleston or Paris?    And where in the world did you come up with ANYBODY thinking that Flippin or Cedar Ridge was head and shoulders above those two (i am assuming charleston and paris)?   It is amazing at how some people read into what other people say.   Maybe I am missing something but I don't think that anybody on here believes that.  It is very clear to me that most people on here are just not sure about a lot of things but there seems to be a couple of clear themes that are kind of consistent.   

1.   ECS is a clear #1.   (they can lose but they probably should not).
2.   Cedar Ridge, Flippin, Charleston, Paris, and McGehee are probably 2 thru 6 (no particular order but all have a decent shot to win at state)(and mayflower may work their way into this group).
3.   There are around 8 or 9 other teams that are capable of a big win or two but seem to lack the consistency of the top 6.  Two Rivers, Mayflower, Rivercrest, Cossatot, Centerpoint, Lamar, Danville, Valley, Marshall, and maybe a couple more (once again in no particular order)

I just hope that all the above teams play well the rest of the way and we have a great state tournament.

I was responding to Bigman's "those who think our conference is weak" statement. There have been some imply the conference is overrated. But I have to say that your analysis or the state of 3A is pretty spot-on.

[BigMan15]

Just consider this if you think 3A-4 is weak or doubt Charleston and Paris.

Last night for Paris, Gage Hampton had 29 points, 11 rebounds, and five blocks against Two Rivers. He's far and away their best post player. Earlier in the year, they went to Roland, Oklahoma, a notoriously hard place to play. The Rangers had only lost two home games in six years. Hampton was injured in that game, chipped off part of his wrist. Brandon Fenner, who everyone seems to think is the only player Paris has, only had 10 points in that game, his second-lowest point total of the season. Paris still won.

Then they went to Alma, with Hampton still sidelined with that injury, and won 74-71. Alma was ranked as high as #6 overall at 12-1, their only loss to Paris, before losing to Van Buren...who Charleston played within a point...without their football players. That same Charleston team went into Paris and won too.

The whole "All Paris has is Fenner" and "All Charleston has is Ward" talk is inaccurate. I base that on resume, not speculation. Better than ECS? No, but so far only Parkview (you know, #1 overall ranked Parkview?) and McClellan have been in the state. And only barely. But before you go thinking that Cedar Ridge and Flippin, two very, very good and deserving teams, are head and shoulders above those two, just consider what they've accomplished this year. That's all I ask.

Who said that 3a-4 is weak or that they doubted Charleston or Paris?    And where in the world did you come up with ANYBODY thinking that Flippin or Cedar Ridge was head and shoulders above those two (i am assuming charleston and paris)?   It is amazing at how some people read into what other people say.   Maybe I am missing something but I don't think that anybody on here believes that.  It is very clear to me that most people on here are just not sure about a lot of things but there seems to be a couple of clear themes that are kind of consistent.   

1.   ECS is a clear #1.   (they can lose but they probably should not).
2.   Cedar Ridge, Flippin, Charleston, Paris, and McGehee are probably 2 thru 6 (no particular order but all have a decent shot to win at state)(and mayflower may work their way into this group).
3.   There are around 8 or 9 other teams that are capable of a big win or two but seem to lack the consistency of the top 6.  Two Rivers, Mayflower, Rivercrest, Cossatot, Centerpoint, Lamar, Danville, Valley, Marshall, and maybe a couple more (once again in no particular order)

I just hope that all the above teams play well the rest of the way and we have a great state tournament.

+1000

[#EagleStrong]

It will probably be a clean sweep for the 4 but I could see WF or Lavaca sneaking up on a Danville or Lamar (Since those two are so dependent of one player, correct me if I am wrong). WF has the size and Lavaca could get hot and hit 10-13 3's. I remember watching Two Rivers last year in District against Charleston and was impressed especially when I found out how young they were.

I wouldn't quite say Lamar relies on just one player, certainly not nearly as much as Danville. They rely heavily on McCarley for ball-handling, and they're very vulnerable to pressure when he's out of the game. However, McCarley has a couple of good shooters around him that make them difficult to zone up against (which is what happened last night), and they have an athletic 6'6 center that looks really good at times. Not really a post up guy, but a great rebounder and defender that can really score on put-backs and dump passes when McCarley penetrates. Their forward is scrappy, but not flashy. Their real problem is depth. When McCarley and Kern (the center) get in foul trouble they really struggle.

Danville on the other hand does rely heavily on Jay Trusty, but he's next to impossible to take away. 30 ppg this season, 35 ppg in conference so far. No size in the post, one other decent but inconsistent guard. Good for 10-15 most games. Teams can get so preoccupied with Trusty that some of those other guys can score though. Their defense hurts them. They like to press, but they really aren't that good at it, and teams are able to break it and score a lot.