Umpires clinic 2015

[True Fan]

I have fussed about these meetings in the past and I would just like to say that this year seemed to be much better.

There are only two rule changes. Both address mirrored helmets. You can't have them. Get a new one.

There was a very good discussion about the DP/Flex rule. There always seems to be some confusion about it. It was clarified for all in attendance simply by using the RULE BOOK.

There were some high school coaches there who were invited to give their view on the performance of the umpires. Thanks to Coach Clark from Bryant and Coach Ernest from Nashville.

I would like to say that I was really impressed with Coach Ernest. He contacted the other coaches in his area and really came prepared to help the officials improve. He addressed a lot of the issues that we see in players, coaches and the officials making the change from summer ball to high school ball. He admits that he considers himself a football coach. That's just the nature of the beast for smaller schools. Yet, you can tell by the way that he speaks that he has developed an understanding and a passion for the game. I'll take that any day. There were several totally different topics such as appeals, fans, administration, appearances and professionalism. In each of the discussions, I got the feeling that his perspective always took into account the the best interest of the players. In my humble opinion, Nashville, and the state, are lucky to have him as a coach and as an educator for our youth.  (Disclaimer - I don't call Nashville games and am not trying to start. If I call them any time soon, they will be the visitor and my goal will be that his girls play their game and never notice that I'm there.)

There was also a breakout session for first and second year officials. I hope that they got some good guidance to began their careers. Overall it was a good clinic and I'm glad that I went. I don't think that I've ever said that before.

[BIG_K]

Did you discuss the strike Zone???

[True Fan]

Yup. The coach said his pitcher and catcher needed to figure out how the ump called and adjust to it. Most are consistent whether you like their zone or not.

From the seasoned ump, there are umpire signals for lots of things. However the location of a miss does not exist.

My opinion, if you need to ask the ump, you need to work on your catchers social skills.

[BIG_K]

  oooooooookkkkkkkk

[BIG_K]

 ;D50 percent at Best, the other 50 percent need the term front corner or  back corner of the plate explained to them!

[True Fan]

Yea, that one inch difference between hitting the corner or missing her spot is ALL because of the terrible umpire.

[BIG_K]

No, the one inch that crosses the inside or outside front or back corner of the plate thats missed.(uneducated umpire)

[True Fan]

No, the one inch that crosses the inside or outside front or back corner of the plate thats missed.(uneducated umpire)

Easier said than done.     It would be easy to argue that if a pitcher can't bring it over an inch to get the call, it's unlikely that she was ever hitting the corner to begin with.

Curious though, why would you say this is the sign of an uneducated umpire?

[BIG_K]

 Always have liked giving umpires a hard time, take it with a grain of salt  . My DD is out of High School so i'm just having a little fun . I'm just prepairing you for the upcomming season when the first game gets started and daddy dosen't agree with your strike zone:'( . Have a  great season!

[LowerAR]

Well in my opinion, ha ha; if umpires worked as hard as pitchers then we would have much better called games. I would not think that a pitcher would be much good if they went to 2 clinics; checked there gear and walked on the mound 1st day. I'll take the girl who throws everyday of her life over the umpire. That said, most are good people who try hard and when you think about it; it's a no win situation.       

[Mike Love]

And EVERYONE can see if it crosses the plate from the stand and/or sidelines...many of us, myself included) have been doing this umpiring thing since before there was fastpitch... I know I have called more balls and strikes than you could count. It is what it is, adjust, and get used to it.  Cuz we aint arguing balls and strikes.

[BIG_K]

The best one I was told by an umpire, it may have been you Mike was the following: "Coach, if you are questioning my balls and strikes you are out of here".To that I turned around and went back in the dugout.    (it's good to see you havn't lost your Passion for the game) 

[True Fan]

I'll take the girl who throws everyday of her life over the umpire.

It's a lot harder to throw a ball 43 feet and have it break just enough at exactly the right moment to cross the corner of the plane of the strike zone than it is to set up and see the gap between the ball and the plate. No matter how much she practices, I've yet to see a single pitcher with 100% pinpoint accuracy through years of watching, coaching, and umping all levels of fastpitch softball.

As for a no-win situation, you're wrong. Most umpires do it because they love the game. I'm not bothered by the pitchers daddy, the summer ball coach, the disgruntled football coach, or even the drunk uncle down by the foul pole. It's a game and I love to be a part of it. Whether as an ump or just a fan. It's a win every time the girls take the field. 

[True Fan]

You know, I've only really been got on to one time by the crowd for the way I called balls and strikes. I'm sure I miss a few, but not too bad.    For the most part, I communicate with the catchers and use their feedback way more than that far away and off to the side coach or that diva in the ring who's daddy sits on a bucket and LIES to her about how perfect every one of her pitches is.

It was a larger school from somewhere down south. (intentionally vague to protect the innocent) Their pitcher was having a bad day. She would throw one about nose level. She would throw one about ankle high. She literally threw more than one behind the batter. And, every so often, she would hit about a foot inside or outside. Not much movement. Just trying to throw strikes. I guess the crowd wanted to award strikes for effort. I didn't. Jeez, you would have thought that I was a demon spawned from Hades. The catcher just shrugged and said that back home the umps would just widen it out and give here some calls. I didn't. The catcher ended up being moved to the circle and did a decent job. After the game, the AD came up to me and asked for my card number. I gave it to him and made sure that he had the proper spelling of my name. He rattled on about how he was the head of some intergalactic consortium and how he would see that I never got to umpire again. I told him to have a nice day and left. Never heard anything else about it.

Had them a year or two later around Hot Springs. They had a pretty good pitcher who was hitting her spots. The coach never mentioned the previous game. They won this one easily and after the game several of their fans thanked me as I was leaving the field. I was the same ump with the same strike zone. 

[Mike Love]

I too thought this years clinic was better than years past. Really enjoyed having the coaches input. They moved at a pace where it was not boring. kudos  and it was great to se a good many "new" umpires, I wish them all well, and if any ever want to work with me, I'm game. Looking forward to March 2

[LowerAR]

Umps are strange to me! I have a good friend who is one of the best in South AR and he always wants me to start calling with him, but I like working with the girls to make them better. That's just me. How the guys in blue do it, I don't know. I will say they are important and good ones are worth there weight in gold, and sometimes that's alot.   My main problem most of the time with umpires is they don't seem to understand that coaches and parents are working from a differant angle. That pitcher out there that's struggling is a human being (a young girl), and she will not ever get better without that feeling of acceptance and positive encouragement, and sometimes that doesn't sound very good to the ump. Parents, coaches, players and umpires get mad sometimes and that is just part of the game. If it wasn't for passion there would be no reason to play the game. I still say that sometimes your dang if you do and dang if you don't and that is a no win situation in my book. All I ask is the guy's and girls in blue keep coming and doing there part so the diva and dads can keep working on their part.       

[SportsLover65]

Balls and Strikes are just something you don't argue. With that being said, what you can ask the umpire how close the that pitch was that missed and then tell your pitcher....promise he/she will call that same pitch and location a strike later. I do know that if you yell, scream, and insult an umpire that they are basically NOT going to give you any close calls. Also, if the pitcher has an attitude when she felt like that was a strike the umpire will get irritated with that as well.

Moral of the story.......not every umpire has been taught right and sometimes pride gets in the way of some becoming really good umpires.

[BBRB]

Just a thought from a reformed baseball guy that caught at ever level.  If the catcher will protect the umpires feet, not yank pitches 10 inches to the corner and call it framing, and speak to the ump with respect without spinning her head around or rolling her eyes....She can really help identify and hit the strike zone....Most people would be amazed how well it works...And it works best when nobody knows...

[LowerAR]

Oh, respect and courtesy go a long way. It should be expected and demanded from every program, coach and girl. It also makes the game much more enjoyable, but your not suggesting that umpires give better calls to teams that treat them well are you? That the formentioned curve over the front corner of the plate was given because the catcher treated the umpire like a person. I thought I just heard the zone was the same.    

[BBRB]

Oh, respect and courtesy go a long way. It should be expected and demanded from every program, coach and girl. It also makes the game much more enjoyable, but your not suggesting that umpires give better calls to teams that treat them well are you? That the formentioned curve over the front corner of the plate was given because the catcher treated the umpire like a person. I thought I just heard the zone was the same.    

I'm saying the ump and the catcher probably saw the pitch and a lot of stuff can be discussed without turning around and showing up the umpire...Getting the crowdon their butt....They want to do a good job and a good catcher can help.....

[XFalkonz]

Did you discuss the umpire standing in short right field that can see a batter being hit outside the batters box with a foul ball? Amazing how they can see that a batter was hit when she never stepped out of the box but yet can't see that a batter is starting with her foot out of the batters and making contact....amazing

[True Fan]

Did you discuss the umpire standing in short right field that can see a batter being hit outside the batters box with a foul ball? Amazing how they can see that a batter was hit when she never stepped out of the box but yet can't see that a batter is starting with her foot out of the batters and making contact....amazing

Nope, but thanks for asking.


Just for fun, let's address your question.

Which umpire made the initial call? Details?













As for the team attitude affecting the ump. There's no way to say that it doesn't. But, I've called with a lot of different guys and the strike zone rarely changes based on that. As we know, every ump sees it a little bit different. Some are more consistent than others. Some will actually change as an afternoon game turns into a night game.  But, all in all, umps call what they think they see. I understand that the appearance sometimes seems otherwise. I just disagree.


A catcher with strong communication skills can find out exactly what the UMP thought was wrong with the pitch. She can tell the pitcher, set up a little different, or let the coach know that that pitch isn't working. It's no different that any other situation where communication skills make the job easier. I have had discussions with catchers about the outside corner. I don't give an extra foot. Because I'm not a real tall guy, it can be a challenge when there is a larger catcher. I have never and would never dream of telling a catcher to change her set up. I did have a smart catcher who thought missing it. She said that she would try to reposition to let me have "a little better look". She did the next couple of times that pitch was called. She even let me know when it was coming.  I got a good look at a ball that was hanging on the inside line of the opposite batters box. I thanked her a told her that I could see it fine, but I thought it was a little wide. She just smiled, said it was worth a shot and brought the pitch in enough to get it called when she needed to.

While it may seem that a team gets calls for being nice, in most cases, the reality is that they are using readily available information to improve their game.

[XFalkonz]

Sure I will play.....runner at first, no outs, three man crew, the first base side umpire is standing in short right field. The batter squares to bunt and makes contact and the bal comes straight up off the plate and hits her before she she had a chance to move...the call is batter out from the official in short right field....discuss

[True Fan]

As presented, there's not much to discuss. Sounds like a blown call.

Although, technically, that was a fair ball until she touched it.

[sevenof400]

True Fan,

You really should consider having a business card printed for certain occasions:

True Fan
Demon spawned from Hades.
AOA Card # BR-549

[True Fan]

I'll add that to my LinkedIn.

[XFalkonz]

As presented, there's not much to discuss. Sounds like a blown call.

Although, technically, that was a fair ball until she touched it.

Funny he didn't see it that way....

[BIG_K]

 

[SportsLover65]

Sure I will play.....runner at first, no outs, three man crew, the first base side umpire is standing in short right field. The batter squares to bunt and makes contact and the bal comes straight up off the plate and hits her before she she had a chance to move...the call is batter out from the official in short right field....discuss

I assume if it was a 3 man crew then your team was in the championship game......please tell us what the officials did when you appealed the call???

[LowerAR]

The truth is you get umpires of all kinds; some are real good, I mean they know where to be, see things like most, and call mostly good games. Then there are others that just aren't very good. They don't know how to get in position or don't try. Some are new or they can't for some reason. Most of these try hard but tend to make mistakes, but they are fair. Then there are the nightmares, those who are there to change the game or to cheat, and it does happen. I remember playing Tourny Ball in Memphis one summer. In between games I heard some umps talking about the team we were about to play. They went on and on about how awesome those girls were and there were no teams around like them. They were good and the umpires did not call bad games, but they did seem to get there fair share of close calls. The truth is the human element is always there, and everyone there understands and hates that it's going to be a factor, and most of time we all try to act like it didn't matter. But sometimes it will and everyone knows it. Most times umpires are just trying to do a good job and I know that some will say I didn't or that's not fair, but it is the way it is. In the opinion of this old man; it is not about the Game, but the Girls. Now if you want to start a real good tread, do it on how bad parents and fans are.                          

[True Fan]

/\  Well said.

[Bulldog92]

True Fan, when is the field umpire out of position for the plate umpire to grant an appeal on a check swing?

[True Fan]

Never. It is always at the PU's descretion.

[Bulldog92]

So when there is a two man crew and the FU is behind and to the left of the pitchers circle, he would be in position to make the correct call?

[True Fan]

Never said he was in position. If the PU thinks he needs help, he can ask.

So, you're saying the other guy was inside the baseline?

[Bulldog92]

Never said he was in position. If the PU thinks he needs help, he can ask.

So, you're saying the other guy was inside the baseline?

Yes.  When there is a two man crew and runners on base the FU usually always sets up behind the pitcher.  I am wanting to know when is the FU out of position to make the correct call?

[BigR]

When there is a two man crew and runners on base the FU usually always sets up behind the pitcher.


If he/she is behind pitcher then yes, they are out of position.

[True Fan]

That's what seems odd. Haven't seen that since some 10u.


Now behind the 2nd baseman or shortstop, the FU could still be of assistance on a checked swing. Even up closer, if that's the case, would put him out of position, but nor necessarily unable to judge the attempt.

[True Fan]

Just to be clear, my answers come from my little ideal world where umpires actually care about making the right call. I can't stand when an umpire on the 3rd base side of the shortstop has to make that call. My thoughts.

It's not an automatic appeal. if the PU was confident in the call, play ball.
There are a number of factors in a check swing appeal.
Many get hung up on the "breaking of the wrist".
It's complicated more by slappers.
The bottom line is was there an attempt made to hit the ball.

If the PU asks and the FU saw it as an attempt, he should signal it a strike. If he didn't see it as an attempt or is not sure, he should signal it as safe.

(Real world disclaimer - sometimes the FU needs a little attention because he really wanted to be the PU and you can bet your bottom dollar that he is going to ring the batter up because that's a lot more fun. )

[Bulldog92]

Just to be clear, my answers come from my little ideal world where umpires actually care about making the right call. I can't stand when an umpire on the 3rd base side of the shortstop has to make that call. My thoughts.

It's not an automatic appeal. if the PU was confident in the call, play ball.
There are a number of factors in a check swing appeal.
Many get hung up on the "breaking of the wrist".
It's complicated more by slappers.
The bottom line is was there an attempt made to hit the ball.

If the PU asks and the FU saw it as an attempt, he should signal it a strike. If he didn't see it as an attempt or is not sure, he should signal it as safe.

(Real world disclaimer - sometimes the FU needs a little attention because he really wanted to be the PU and you can bet your bottom dollar that he is going to ring the batter up because that's a lot more fun. )

I agree with what you are saying but I do think that once the FU positions him/herself behind the pitcher the PU is in as good as a position to make the correct call.  In my opinion that call bristles more coaches up probably the fastest when the FU is out of position to see the check swing/attempt and the PU grants the appeal because it will happen in an important time in the game.  Just my two cents, see yall around the ball parks!!

[BICMUSTANG4LIFE]

FU should not be on the infield until ball is hit to the outfield or Coming across from the c slot to make a call at 1st.   Only in baseball with the 90ft bases have I seen this. 

[Bulldog92]

FU should not be on the infield until ball is hit to the outfield or Coming across from the c slot to make a call at 1st.   Only in baseball with the 90ft bases have I seen this.

They set up like I explained all the time in USSSA baseball and travel softball and they are a lot of the same umps you see in high school.

[True Fan]

May be the same guys, but I have never seen a SOFTBALL high school or college ump start inside the diamond. Ever.

The only time that I have seen that was pitching machine/coach pitch. And one tournament @ 12u where the umps were short handed and there was only one ump per field for a few games. Yea, he was calling balls and strikes and all from the mound. Lots of unhappy folks.


What part of the state are you talking about?

And, please drop any and all references to baseball. We don't really care what they do. 

[Bulldog92]

May be the same guys, but I have never seen a SOFTBALL high school or college ump start inside the diamond. Ever.

The only time that I have seen that was pitching machine/coach pitch. And one tournament @ 12u where the umps were short handed and there was only one ump per field for a few games. Yea, he was calling balls and strikes and all from the mound. Lots of unhappy folks.


What part of the state are you talking about?

And, please drop any and all references to baseball. We don't really care what they do. 

They aren't starting from there they are moving behind the mound once there is a runner on first.  They have been doing it like that as long as I can remember. 

By the way an UMP is an UMP, LOL!!!!

[BICMUSTANG4LIFE]

I have never seen a FU in the infield (in Softball). We are taught A,B,C slots & none are in the infield. I attended a clinic last weekend & covered all of these not 1 time did they tell us to start in the infield.   I'm in no way disputing what you are saying if you saw it in softball then he was out of postion. IMO!

[True Fan]

Start means on the pitch, not the inning.

Umps follow the guidelines for the association which sanctions the game. No softball mechanics call for what you claim.


Sounds purely like baseball. And, no, those umps are different.

[Bulldog92]

Start means on the pitch, not the inning.

Umps follow the guidelines for the association which sanctions the game. No softball mechanics call for what you claim.


Sounds purely like baseball. And, no, those umps are different.

I'm not saying what the guidelines say or not say, nor am I telling you what the official mechanics of softball umpiring book says.  I am merely stating what I have seen on the field of play.  Maybe in all my years of playing and coaching I have been mistaken on where the Umps are setting up.  Maybe I need to pay more attention.

And no you are wrong, there is no difference in baseball and softball umps.  Neither ever make a bad call or wrong about anything!!!!

[Bulldog92]

I have never seen a FU in the infield (in Softball). We are taught A,B,C slots & none are in the infield. I attended a clinic last weekend & covered all of these not 1 time did they tell us to start in the infield.   I'm in no way disputing what you are saying if you saw it in softball then he was out of postion. IMO!

I was corrected on what "START" meant.  I have never seen an umpire "START" the inning behind the mound.  They have always "STARTED" behind 1st base.  BUT once there is a runner on first they will move behind the mound and that is where my complaint is when appealing a check swing. 

[True Fan]

Start means on the pitch, not the inning.

Umps follow the guidelines for the association which sanctions the game. No softball mechanics call for what you claim.


Sounds purely like baseball. And, no, those umps are different.

I'm not saying what the guidelines say or not say, nor am I telling you what the official mechanics of softball umpiring book says.  I am merely stating what I have seen on the field of play.  Maybe in all my years of playing and coaching I have been mistaken on where the Umps are setting up.  Maybe I need to pay more attention.

And no you are wrong, there is no difference in baseball and softball umps.  Neither ever make a bad call or wrong about anything!!!!

I think that you are mistaken. Like I've said, you may have very easily seen it on a baseball field and just mixed them up. Just not enough room in fastpitch.

My experience is that softball umps are much more open to admitting to the fact that everyone misses calls. Nobody knows everything. The closest thing I've seen to that was telling us at the clinic that we needed to be able to quote rule, section, and article when explaining the rules to a coach. I've yet to see an umpire who has memorized the entire rulebook. Most study it, test on it, study some more and have a really good understanding of the spirit and the intent of the individual rules. This is what has to be enforced on the field. Weird situations will call for a review and heavy searching through rule and case books. Sometimes it backs the common sense application, other times, you figure out where you went wrong.

Finally, NOBODY has argued that it is difficult for the field ump to make that check swing call from anywhere other than the foul line. To me, the worse thing is when a lefty batter gets called by the ump standing behind first base in foul territory. But, he is the only other person on the field or in the stands who's opinion matters to the plate umpire at that particular moment.

[Bulldog92]

Start means on the pitch, not the inning.

Umps follow the guidelines for the association which sanctions the game. No softball mechanics call for what you claim.


Sounds purely like baseball. And, no, those umps are different.

I'm not saying what the guidelines say or not say, nor am I telling you what the official mechanics of softball umpiring book says.  I am merely stating what I have seen on the field of play.  Maybe in all my years of playing and coaching I have been mistaken on where the Umps are setting up.  Maybe I need to pay more attention.

And no you are wrong, there is no difference in baseball and softball umps.  Neither ever make a bad call or wrong about anything!!!!

I think that you are mistaken. Like I've said, you may have very easily seen it on a baseball field and just mixed them up. Just not enough room in fastpitch.

My experience is that softball umps are much more open to admitting to the fact that everyone misses calls. Nobody knows everything. The closest thing I've seen to that was telling us at the clinic that we needed to be able to quote rule, section, and article when explaining the rules to a coach. I've yet to see an umpire who has memorized the entire rulebook. Most study it, test on it, study some more and have a really good understanding of the spirit and the intent of the individual rules. This is what has to be enforced on the field. Weird situations will call for a review and heavy searching through rule and case books. Sometimes it backs the common sense application, other times, you figure out where you went wrong.

Finally, NOBODY has argued that it is difficult for the field ump to make that check swing call from anywhere other than the foul line. To me, the worse thing is when a lefty batter gets called by the ump standing behind first base in foul territory. But, he is the only other person on the field or in the stands who's opinion matters to the plate umpire at that particular moment.

TrueFan you are right, I apologize.  I don't guess I have ever seen an Ump set up behind the pithcers mound when runners are on base during a softball game.  I don't know who those guys are in blue, pink, and red shirts they must be a figment of my imagination.
To say that softball umps are more likely to admitt that they made a bad call, well, is just not true.  There are a lot of good/honest umps(baseball & softball) that when approached correctly will talk and admit they messed up or explain why we as coaches are wrong, but that is because they have called a bunch of our games. I have had them watching some of our games and come and tell us that the ones calling the game screwed up.
To answer your question about what part of the state, just take a map of Arkansas and pick a town from the NW corner to the NE corner, the Central part, or anywhere in the South.  If you would like you can do the same in LA, MS, TX, AL, or FL doesn't really matter to me!
No hard feelings just differences of opinions!  See ya'll around the diamond!!