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8 Man Football Teams - 2018

Started by AT, July 11, 2018, 11:09:45 am

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AT

My understanding:

Hermitage (1A in all other sports)
Decatur (2A)
Woodlawn (2A)
Augusta (1A)
Episcopal Collegiate (3A)
Arkansas School for the Deaf (Non AAA member before this)
Arkansas Christian School (Non AAA member before this)

Schedules for each time, from my understanding, not in the order of when they play:

Hermitage
Decatur
Woodlawn
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate
ASD
ACS
Decatur
Woodlawn
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate

Decatur
Hermitage
Woodlawn
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate
ASD
ACS
Hermitage
Woodlawn
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate

Woodlawn
Decatur
Hermitage
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate
ASD
ACS
Decatur
Hermitage
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate

Augusta
Decatur
Woodlawn
Hermitage
Episcopal Collegiate
ASD
ACS
Decatur
Woodlawn
Hermitage
Episcopal Collegiate

Episcopal Collegiate
Decatur
Woodlawn
Augusta
Hermitage
ASD
ACS
Decatur
Woodlawn
Augusta
Hermitage

Arkansas School for the Deaf
Decatur
Woodlawn
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate
Hermitage
ACS

Arkansas Christian School
Decatur
Woodlawn
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate
Hermitage
ASD

AirWarren

Quote from: Almatrackster on July 11, 2018, 11:09:45 am
My understanding:

Hermitage (1A in all other sports)
Decatur (2A)
Woodlawn (2A)
Augusta (1A)
Episcopal Collegiate (3A)
Arkansas School for the Deaf (Non AAA member before this)
Arkansas Christian School (Non AAA member before this)

Schedules for each time, from my understanding, not in the order of when they play:

Hermitage
Decatur
Woodlawn
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate
ASD
ACS
Decatur
Woodlawn
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate

Decatur
Hermitage
Woodlawn
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate
ASD
ACS
Hermitage
Woodlawn
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate

Woodlawn
Decatur
Hermitage
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate
ASD
ACS
Decatur
Hermitage
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate

Augusta
Decatur
Woodlawn
Hermitage
Episcopal Collegiate
ASD
ACS
Decatur
Woodlawn
Hermitage
Episcopal Collegiate

Episcopal Collegiate
Decatur
Woodlawn
Augusta
Hermitage
ASD
ACS
Decatur
Woodlawn
Augusta
Hermitage

Arkansas School for the Deaf
Decatur
Woodlawn
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate
Hermitage
ACS

Arkansas Christian School
Decatur
Woodlawn
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate
Hermitage
ASD

Is Arkansas Christian school the school in Bryant?

Mulerider4Life


AirWarren

Quote from: Mulerider4Life on July 11, 2018, 02:14:45 pm
Correct.

Only a matter of time when they go to 11 man football and a big tuition spike.


Mulerider4Life

Quote from: AirWarren on July 11, 2018, 02:54:58 pm
Only a matter of time when they go to 11 man football and a big tuition spike.

They have played 11 man before, but in a home school / Christian league.

Sweet Feet

Idk how i feel about episcopal being in the 8 man league. They are 3A. 8-man shouldn't be used for schools that can't crack it in 11-man

Mulerider4Life

Quote from: Sweet Feet on July 13, 2018, 01:14:55 am
Idk how i feel about episcopal being in the 8 man league. They are 3A. 8-man shouldn't be used for schools that can't crack it in 11-man

But they would be 2A if they were a public school?

AT

Yes, remember that Episcopal has a 2A enrollment but is bumped up to 3A because they are a private school. Their numbers could very well make sense for 8 man football.

Mulerider4Life

Quote from: Almatrackster on July 13, 2018, 07:54:41 am
Yes, remember that Episcopal has a 2A enrollment but is bumped up to 3A because they are a private school. Their numbers could very well make sense for 8 man football.

I agree as well.

bleudog

July 15, 2018, 08:23:06 am #9 Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 10:02:29 pm by bleudog
Quote from: Almatrackster on July 13, 2018, 07:54:41 am
Yes, remember that Episcopal has a 2A enrollment but is bumped up to 3A because they are a private school. Their numbers could very well make sense for 8 man football.

The public-private arguments for 8-man would be the same as 11-man.

How many potential students live within a 10-15 mile radius from campus?

I don't know the numbers, but the area around the average 1A or 2A campus doesn't have the population density as the area around EC.

Include them in the experimental phase, but move toward separation if it takes off.

friscokid

The AAA exempted the smallest 1A schools (like Sacred Heart) from the mandatory class bump, so there is a precedent. I just don't get the feeling a bunch of privates are going to "sandbag" so they can tear up 8-man.

Mulerider4Life

Quote from: friscokid on July 16, 2018, 09:41:56 pm
The AAA exempted the smallest 1A schools (like Sacred Heart) from the mandatory class bump, so there is a precedent. I just don't get the feeling a bunch of privates are going to "sandbag" so they can tear up 8-man.

Why would they do that? 8-man football has no benefit for them.

bleudog

July 17, 2018, 09:01:10 am #12 Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 09:35:18 am by bleudog
Quote from: friscokid on July 16, 2018, 09:41:56 pm
The AAA exempted the smallest 1A schools (like Sacred Heart) from the mandatory class bump, so there is a precedent. I just don't get the feeling a bunch of privates are going to "sandbag" so they can tear up 8-man.

I think most private schools would honor the spirit of the 8-man concept.  Unfortunately, there are those private schools that take advantage of their advantages whether it's football or tiddlywinks.  Those advantages aren't only drawing from a higher population density but also materially lower free and reduced lunch rates, higher percentage of two parent homes, the family's option to provide the athlete with additional out-of-school training,  the higher likelihood the athlete doesn't have to work outside school and/or athletics, etc.......

And I have no knowledge of EC other than what I saw on their FF profile page.  If that's correct, they were a 3A playoff team in 2015 and had double digit win 3A seasons in 2014 and 2013.  Now the last two years haven't been so kind, so playing 8-man may be their way of snubbing their nose at being adjusted up to 3A by the AAA.

http://www.fearlessfriday.com/school/Little%20Rock%20Episcopal.html

HorseFeathers

Episcopal was 3a when those two good seasons you referenced happened....They had 2 stud athletes that carried the team...

bleudog

Quote from: HorseFeathers on July 17, 2018, 09:39:06 am
Episcopal was 3a when those two good seasons you referenced happened....They had 2 stud athletes that carried the team...

Looked like they were 12-1 in 2005 (their last year in 2A)

HorseFeathers

Hurricane Katrina was good for their football team

bleudog

July 21, 2018, 01:58:04 pm #16 Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 03:40:00 pm by bleudog
Quote from: HorseFeathers on July 21, 2018, 11:05:44 am
Hurricane Katrina was good for their football team

Helped out Jessieville in 2006 too.  The Lord works in mysterious way.

Str8thug

 I think 8 man football will be good for many small schools in the state to allow kids a chance to play.  However, I think the AAA really messed up by allowing teams that were already placed in conferences and had playing contracts, bail out this late in the game.  Some schools are left with multiple open dates and nearly impossible to fill those this late.  Could this not have been discussed prior to the restructuring of conferences this season? 

friscokid

Quote from: Str8thug on July 21, 2018, 09:04:16 pm
I think 8 man football will be good for many small schools in the state to allow kids a chance to play.  However, I think the AAA really messed up by allowing teams that were already placed in conferences and had playing contracts, bail out this late in the game.  Some schools are left with multiple open dates and nearly impossible to fill those this late.  Could this not have been discussed prior to the restructuring of conferences this season?
Better to have it this way than to have a team start the year and then drop out for not having enough players. Either way, you're stuck with an open date. At least this way, you have time to adjust and find a replacement like Hector and Junction City did.

bleudog

Quote from: friscokid on July 21, 2018, 10:52:08 pm
Better to have it this way than to have a team start the year and then drop out for not having enough players. Either way, you're stuck with an open date. At least this way, you have time to adjust and find a replacement like Hector and Junction City did.

There's talk around the 2A-8 schools that Strong may not start with enough kids to finish the season.

Eddie Goodson

Quote from: bleudog on July 22, 2018, 08:08:25 am
There's talk around the 2A-8 schools that Strong may not start with enough kids to finish the season.
I really don't believe Strong survives as a high school passed the 2019-2020 school year. I know we got a few school choice kids from over there this year. I expect a forced consolidation with El Dorado is looming.

bleudog

EG, if Strong doesn't survive as a district, I'd figure it would be divided between El Do and Crossett.

Eddie Goodson

Quote from: bleudog on July 22, 2018, 12:19:42 pm
EG, if Strong doesn't survive as a district, I'd figure it would be divided between El Do and Crossett.
I would be shocked to see them cross county lines. I could see El Do maintaining an elementary and middle school in Strong and shipping the high school to El Do. There's just nothing between us and Strong but river bottoms. It would be just as close to send them to El Dorado. And our new high school would not be big enough to absorb Strong.

bleudog

Quote from: Eddie Goodson on July 22, 2018, 04:03:13 pm
I would be shocked to see them cross county lines. I could see El Do maintaining an elementary and middle school in Strong and shipping the high school to El Do. There's just nothing between us and Strong but river bottoms. It would be just as close to send them to El Dorado. And our new high school would not be big enough to absorb Strong.

Yeah, I was thinking of the Stephens district, but I got them backwards.   That consolidation took a district that had kids from three counties (Columbia, Ouachita and Nevada), closed it and sent the kids to schools within the county in which they lived.  (Camden Fairview, Magnolia and Rosston)

And what they built in El Do should be big enough for every kid in Union County.  :o


Mulerider4Life

Quote from: bleudog on July 22, 2018, 08:14:19 pm
Yeah, I was thinking of the Stephens district, but I got them backwards.   That consolidation took a district that had kids from three counties (Columbia, Ouachita and Nevada), closed it and sent the kids to schools within the county in which they lived.  (Camden Fairview, Magnolia and Rosston)

And what they built in El Do should be big enough for every kid in Union County.  :o

Look into what Camden Harmony Grove is doing with Sparkman. Something like that could happen at El Dorado. It's too far to ship kids to Eldorado every day. Strong could drop down to 1A eventually, get rid of football and keep basketball for a little bit.

bleudog

July 23, 2018, 02:03:15 pm #25 Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 09:39:17 pm by bleudog
Quote from: Mulerider4Life on July 23, 2018, 11:25:27 am
Look into what Camden Harmony Grove is doing with Sparkman. Something like that could happen at El Dorado. It's too far to ship kids to Eldorado every day. Strong could drop down to 1A eventually, get rid of football and keep basketball for a little bit.

The distance was one of the reasons I made the split the district comment.  I don't know how far Strong is from the county line (or how many kids are east of Strong), but Strong is about halfway between El Dorado and Crosett.

I not familiar with Sparkman.  Did Sparkman keep a high school?  I wouldn't think El Do would want to maintain a second high school with what they built.

Even the 1A school districts have the 350 target .  Problem is between occasional academic and fiscal distress, Strong getting a waiver on an ongoing basis isn't realistic.

If Norphlet would have delayed their consolidation, they should have been able to get a waiver since their money and academic performance would have warranted it.

I think the ultimate ADE stick it was what Emerson-Taylor-Bradley did.  They "consolidated" but, as far as I know, never closed a school.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerson-Taylor-Bradley_School_District

Eddie Goodson

Quote from: Mulerider4Life on July 23, 2018, 11:25:27 am
Look into what Camden Harmony Grove is doing with Sparkman. Something like that could happen at El Dorado. It's too far to ship kids to Eldorado every day. Strong could drop down to 1A eventually, get rid of football and keep basketball for a little bit.
There are kids all up and down the Delta that travel farther than the 20 miles from Strong to El Dorado. It is 25 miles from the middle of Wilmot to Hamburg High. Some of those kids travel 30+ miles to school everyday. It is 35 miles from Felsenthal to El Do High. It is 31 miles by paved road from Felsenthal to Crossett High.

Missco

County lines really dont matter. A lot of district have kids from 2 counties. When turrell dissolved kids when to schools in 3 different counties

HorseFeathers

Bleu,
Bradley, Taylor and Emerson are all still open....Emerson and Taylor consolidated districts around 2003 when the 350 nber came to be....Bradley joined them not to long ago, and I believe Lafayette County tried to fight that merger.(Western Grove, Bruno Pyatt, and St Joe.....And Jasper/Kingston/Oark are the other 3 tiny high school districts

Sparkman still has a highschool but about 3 years ago, harmony Grove school district voted to quit Fielding athletic teams at Sparkman, and all kids participate at Harmony Grove now..


bleudog

Quote from: HorseFeathers on July 24, 2018, 09:07:18 pm
Bleu,
Bradley, Taylor and Emerson are all still open....Emerson and Taylor consolidated districts around 2003 when the 350 nber came to be....Bradley joined them not to long ago, and I believe Lafayette County tried to fight that merger.(Western Grove, Bruno Pyatt, and St Joe.....And Jasper/Kingston/Oark are the other 3 tiny high school districts

Sparkman still has a highschool but about 3 years ago, harmony Grove school district voted to quit Fielding athletic teams at Sparkman, and all kids participate at Harmony Grove now..



Yeah, that's what I was trying to point out about B-T-E.  They consolidated but never closed a school. They're like a 900 kid district with three elementary and three high schools.  I guess all they did was drop two superintendents.  I'm surprised they don't have some kind of football program, eight or eleven.

friscokid

Quote from: bleudog on July 24, 2018, 09:38:32 pm
Yeah, that's what I was trying to point out about B-T-E.  They consolidated but never closed a school. They're like a 900 kid district with three elementary and three high schools.  I guess all they did was drop two superintendents.  I'm surprised they don't have some kind of football program, eight or eleven.
If Arkansas allowed co-op football, they could. But not 1 team with all 3 schools still open under the current rules.

bleudog

Quote from: friscokid on July 24, 2018, 10:08:02 pm
If Arkansas allowed co-op football, they could. But not 1 team with all 3 schools still open under the current rules.

Out of my wheelhouse, but that sounds like what HF posted Camden HG and Sparkman were doing.

Hgalum50

Quote from: HorseFeathers on July 24, 2018, 09:07:18 pm
Bleu,
Bradley, Taylor and Emerson are all still open....Emerson and Taylor consolidated districts around 2003 when the 350 nber came to be....Bradley joined them not to long ago, and I believe Lafayette County tried to fight that merger.(Western Grove, Bruno Pyatt, and St Joe.....And Jasper/Kingston/Oark are the other 3 tiny high school districts

Sparkman still has a highschool but about 3 years ago, harmony Grove school district voted to quit Fielding athletic teams at Sparkman, and all kids participate at Harmony Grove now..
It was just last year that HG quit sports at Sparkman  just thought I would throw that in there.

NWA Hawg

Quote from: friscokid on July 24, 2018, 10:08:02 pm
If Arkansas allowed co-op football, they could. But not 1 team with all 3 schools still open under the current rules.

Yes they could have students from all 3 schools playing for one team. They have done This before in baseball.

dragon67

For many years, if you were going to school at Sparkman and wanted to play football, you played at Camden Harmony Grove in the same district.  Other sports such as basketball, you played at Sparkman.

Mulerider4Life

Quote from: dragon67 on July 25, 2018, 07:34:35 pm
For many years, if you were going to school at Sparkman and wanted to play football, you played at Camden Harmony Grove in the same district.  Other sports such as basketball, you played at Sparkman.

I understand that, I guess the same was for baseball as well?

dragon67

If Sparkman had enough.  If not they would play for Harmony Grove.  I think if you want to run track at Bradley or Taylor, you run for Emerson. If you are at Emerson and want to play baseball or softball, I think you play for Taylor.  I'm not totally sure on those scenarios.

bleudog

July 27, 2018, 11:24:39 am #37 Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 11:26:22 am by bleudog
Quote from: dragon67 on July 27, 2018, 11:01:24 am
If Sparkman had enough.  If not they would play for Harmony Grove.  I think if you want to run track at Bradley or Taylor, you run for Emerson. If you are at Emerson and want to play baseball or softball, I think you play for Taylor.  I'm not totally sure on those scenarios.

Well dang, if Bradley, Taylor and Emerson combine up like that they should be pretty good in 1A.

Taylor      71.00     1A
Emerson  61.00      1A
Bradley    94.33     1A
             226.33

Mansfield       226.00   3A
Drew Central  232.33   3A

http://members.ahsaa.org/public/userfiles/Admin/2016-18_Classification_Numbers.pdf

AT

The Sparkman/CHG is the same as the recent Hackett/Hartford situation right?

HorseFeathers

Quote from: Almatrackster on July 27, 2018, 12:44:01 pm
The Sparkman/CHG is the same as the recent Hackett/Hartford situation right?

Yep....Has been for quite a while, except now CHG school district has discontinued all athletics on the Sparkman Campus.

Lions84

Glad to see this come to fruition!

High Voltage

Quote from: Almatrackster on July 11, 2018, 11:09:45 am
My understanding:

Hermitage (1A in all other sports)
Decatur (2A)
Woodlawn (2A)
Augusta (1A)
Episcopal Collegiate (3A)
Arkansas School for the Deaf (Non AAA member before this)
Arkansas Christian School (Non AAA member before this)

Schedules for each time, from my understanding, not in the order of when they play:

Hermitage
Decatur
Woodlawn
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate
ASD
ACS
Decatur
Woodlawn
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate

Decatur
Hermitage
Woodlawn
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate
ASD
ACS
Hermitage
Woodlawn
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate

Woodlawn
Decatur
Hermitage
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate
ASD
ACS
Decatur
Hermitage
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate

Augusta
Decatur
Woodlawn
Hermitage
Episcopal Collegiate
ASD
ACS
Decatur
Woodlawn
Hermitage
Episcopal Collegiate

Episcopal Collegiate
Decatur
Woodlawn
Augusta
Hermitage
ASD
ACS
Decatur
Woodlawn
Augusta
Hermitage

Arkansas School for the Deaf
Decatur
Woodlawn
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate
Hermitage
ACS

Arkansas Christian School
Decatur
Woodlawn
Augusta
Episcopal Collegiate
Hermitage
ASD
Man, talk about some travel times...wow...

friscokid

These first two years are gonna be rough for travel, especially for Decatur, which is the geographic outlier. (Hermitage too, but less so.)

But I think in the next cycle there will be more teams and less travel, and Decatur can schedule closer Oklahoma and Kansas teams in non-conference. And you gotta think, being in NWA, Decatur will eventually grow to the point where they can get 11 on the field.

HorseFeathers

Decatur School enrollment has increased exactly 6 students since 2004....(per ade #'s from last year)....from an outsider view point it's kinda amazing that the NWA boom hasn't touched them

4real

Quote from: HorseFeathers on July 31, 2018, 06:22:29 pm
Decatur School enrollment has increased exactly 6 students since 2004....(per ade #'s from last year)....from an outsider view point it's kinda amazing that the NWA boom hasn't touched them
Their more of a NE Oklahoma type community...  Ain't nothin there but a chicken plant.  And it is not that close of a drive to all the big places of NWA.

4real

Quote from: friscokid on July 31, 2018, 09:56:28 am
These first two years are gonna be rough for travel, especially for Decatur, which is the geographic outlier. (Hermitage too, but less so.)

But I think in the next cycle there will be more teams and less travel, and Decatur can schedule closer Oklahoma and Kansas teams in non-conference. And you gotta think, being in NWA, Decatur will eventually grow to the point where they can get 11 on the field.
No, they won't grow for a long time

friscokid

This is nuts ...

There are 19 closer 8-man schools in KANSAS than there are in Arkansas for Decatur. Decatur to LR is 227 miles one way. (And Decatur asked for this. Love to see that travel budget.)

Here are the distances to 8-man schools in Kansas:

8-Man Division I:
Burden-Central: 194
Cedar Vale/Dexter: 165
Howard-West Elk: 174
Madison/Hamilton: 211
Shawnee-Maranatha Christian Academy: 219
Oswego: 91.7
Oxford: 211
Rosalia-Flinthills: 193
Sedan:148
Udall: 217

8-Man Division II:
Buffalo-Altoona Midway: 165
Chetopa: 81.1
Colony-Crest: 172
Hartford: 219
LeRoy-S. Coffey County: 187
Melvern-Marais Des Cygnes Valley: 213
Moran-Marmaton Valley: 150
St. Paul: 125
Waverly: 205

bleudog

Quote from: friscokid on August 17, 2018, 05:11:49 pm
This is nuts ...

There are 19 closer 8-man schools in KANSAS than there are in Arkansas for Decatur. Decatur to LR is 227 miles one way. (And Decatur asked for this. Love to see that travel budget.)

Here are the distances to 8-man schools in Kansas:

8-Man Division I:
Burden-Central: 194
Cedar Vale/Dexter: 165
Howard-West Elk: 174
Madison/Hamilton: 211
Shawnee-Maranatha Christian Academy: 219
Oswego: 91.7
Oxford: 211
Rosalia-Flinthills: 193
Sedan:148
Udall: 217

8-Man Division II:
Buffalo-Altoona Midway: 165
Chetopa: 81.1
Colony-Crest: 172
Hartford: 219
LeRoy-S. Coffey County: 187
Melvern-Marais Des Cygnes Valley: 213
Moran-Marmaton Valley: 150
St. Paul: 125
Waverly: 205

What's the difference in Division I and Division II?

big E


friscokid

Quote from: bleudog on August 17, 2018, 06:34:19 pm
What's the difference in Division I and Division II?
Enrollment size. Division I is 99-63, Division II is 62 and below. (Turns out Kansas counts enrollment like Arkansas, grades 9-11, except they use a "snapshot day" like Texas rather than averaging the number over 3 years.)

Fox 16 Arkansas Fox 24 Arkansas