Who's ready for PA to move out of the 5A?

[InYoGrill]

824am on a Thursday morning and there are 5 PA threads already lit up at the top of the board.

Really???

[DEVIL DOG HOG]

I believe that Morrilton was the last Arkansas team to beat PA.

[Maynard G Krebs]

824am on a Thursday morning and there are 5 PA threads already lit up at the top of the board.

Really???

PA threads re actual games were started by PA posters.  The other three threads were started by others.  Just an observation.

[razorcardsfan11]

824am on a Thursday morning and there are 5 PA threads already lit up at the top of the board.

Really???

But yet you start another thread about PA?

[beach bum]

Well that's what happens when you are the best overall team in the state....

[InYoGrill]

But yet you start another thread about PA?

LOL, I know right. What more can you about the best team in 5A?

[Burks]

Without PA the 5A would be boring! BORING! Yawn! I like the fact there is a Alpha Dog the rest of the 5A is chasing.

[Lefefe123#]

Don't punish PA because of their success.  There's a reason for everything.  What happen when PA is no longer a Powerhouse?..keep baiting them in a fight without a unrealistic results?..it is immature and beyond stupid.  If this ad was posted so some looser team can win then suggest taken.  This is playground stuff. 

[MDXPHD]

Don't punish PA because of their success.  There's a reason for everything.  What happen when PA is no longer a Powerhouse?..keep baiting them in a fight without a unrealistic results?..it is immature and beyond stupid.  If this ad was posted so some looser team can win then suggest taken.  This is playground stuff.

It would be a reward. Better competition for PA!

[Overdahill]

It would be a reward. Better competition for PA!

Some truth in this but probably only for football not so much for other sports.

[JessieP]

Don't punish PA because of their success.  There's a reason for everything.  What happen when PA is no longer a Powerhouse?..keep baiting them in a fight without a unrealistic results?..it is immature and beyond stupid.  If this ad was posted so some looser team can win then suggest taken.  This is playground stuff.

That's a seriously stupid argument. It's not punishing them, it's leveling the playing field. Want them to stay in the 5A? Do away with district boundaries. You don't need residency, paperwork or a valid reason for transferring. You play where you want. You think the Jonesboro, Valley View and Nettleton area couldn't field on heck of a 5A team? What about Wynne/Forrest City cheery picking talent? Please don't try and sell that "punishing" narrative. Moving them up simply makes the 5A more apples to apples. Besides, don't true winners want to compete against the best?

[PA Dad]

That's a seriously stupid argument. It's not punishing them, it's leveling the playing field. Want them to stay in the 5A? Do away with district boundaries. You don't need residency, paperwork or a valid reason for transferring. You play where you want. You think the Jonesboro, Valley View and Nettleton area couldn't field on heck of a 5A team? What about Wynne/Forrest City cheery picking talent? Please don't try and sell that "punishing" narrative. Moving them up simply makes the 5A more apples to apples. Besides, don't true winners want to compete against the best?

I don't know all the rules regarding transfers in public schools, but I think "school choice" has diminished the advantages of private schools.

But, I agree with you that PA should move up.  They should want to compete at the highest level they can be competitive.

[MDXPHD]

I don't know all the rules regarding transfers in public schools, but I think "school choice" has diminished the advantages of private schools.

But, I agree with you that PA should move up.  They should want to compete at the highest level they can be competitive.

It has pretty much. Taking away boundaries would almost make it easier for PA. And I think we should just simplify this: offer financial aid to more than 15 percent (or some other arbitrary number I make up) and you have to play in 7A. I just solved the problem.

[JessieP]

It has pretty much. Taking away boundaries would almost make it easier for PA. And I think we should just simplify this: offer financial aid to more than 15 percent (or some other arbitrary number I make up) and you have to play in 7A. I just solved the problem.

Ah ha! I got ya! I finally outsmerted a PHD, lol. You didn't solve it, that's the model the State of California initiated in 1987 when the private Basketball powerhouses kept winning titles, the courts deemed it an unfair competitive advantage. When Verbum Dei was forced to line up against Crenshaw the titles went bye bye.

[MDXPHD]

Ah ha! I got ya! I finally outsmerted a PHD, lol. You didn't solve it, that's the model the State of California initiated in 1987 when the private Basketball powerhouses kept winning titles, the courts deemed it an unfair competitive advantage. When Verbum Dei was forced to line up against Crenshaw the titles went bye bye.

I'm far from a PhD lol. I need more context though. Not sure what the courts ruled an unfair advantage on. Also, Tennessee uses a model regarding financial assistance. It hasn't been deemed unfair yet.

[PA Dad]

Well, one thing we agree on is that PA should move up.  I like MDX's performance based proposal, but regardless I think PA should petition to move up.

The complicating factor is other sports.  PA could not compete in sports other than football in 6A or 7A.  And I don't know if they could move up only in football.

[MDXPHD]

Well, one thing we agree on is that PA should move up.  I like MDX's performance based proposal, but regardless I think PA should petition to move up.

The complicating factor is other sports.  PA could not compete in sports other than football in 6A or 7A.  And I don't know if they could move up only in football.

I don't see why it would be much more difficult than realligning conferences. Next year, football conferences are way different than other sports. It would be more work, and I know a lot of people might not like the extra work, but it would be worth it.

[MDXPHD]

Well, one thing we agree on is that PA should move up.  I like MDX's performance based proposal, but regardless I think PA should petition to move up.

The complicating factor is other sports.  PA could not compete in sports other than football in 6A or 7A.  And I don't know if they could move up only in football.

How hard would it be to shift some of that 25% of football financial aid to some of the other sports? C'mon. Y'all can figure out how to be more competitive in those!

[JessieP]

Well, one thing we agree on is that PA should move up.  I like MDX's performance based proposal, but regardless I think PA should petition to move up.

The complicating factor is other sports.  PA could not compete in sports other than football in 6A or 7A.  And I don't know if they could move up only in football.

You misunderstood. The ruling said if you give aid then you have a larger range of athletes to draw from, that advantage deems it necessary to compete in the highest classification. It was actually a big victory for public teams. Please explain how doing away with boundaries would benefit PA? they have no boundaries, never have. 

[PA Dad]

How hard would it be to shift some of that 25% of football financial aid to some of the other sports? C'mon. Y'all can figure out how to be more competitive in those!

Even PA, with all of its money and advantages , has limitations!

[MDXPHD]

You misunderstood. The ruling said if you give aid then you have a larger range of athletes to draw from, that advantage deems it necessary to compete in the highest classification. It was actually a big victory for public teams. Please explain how doing away with boundaries would benefit PA? they have no boundaries, never have.

So, I stand by my point. If you give aid, play in the highest class. If not, play with your normal class.
Public schools don't have boundaries. Kids just have to sit out a year after 7th grade. I'm fairly certain that is the same with private school too now, unless their parent makes a move within 25 miles of the school (no district). Really though, how hard is it for parents to move into a school district? All schools have transfers. That's not the problem. The other advantages are the problem. Doing away with transfer penalties all together would permit schools like PA to get even more athletes, in my opinion. It would also be a terrible choice to make a private school league. They could make their own rules and could recruit kids whenever from wherever. There are limited options on how to remedy, or somewhat remedy, this. But this thread isn't the place for these discussions lol.

[MDXPHD]

Even PA, with all of its money and advantages , has limitations!

Very, very few!

[Yellowcake]

Yawn....
Just beat them instead of whining about them.
Imbedded in the transfer and financial aid comments is a backhanded recruiting allegation.
I haven't seen them trolling elementary schools, which is when the way overwhelming majority of these kids started at PA.
Give it a rest. Prepare your team to beat PA. And overcome their coach's offensive genius. And before you argue about the genius part, note the different things they do, how well they do it, and that no one, for the most part, has seemed to be able to figure out how to replicate it or stop it.

This should be the deadest of all the horses. But it's not a horse. It's a herd of cats, all with 9 lives. And it just won't die.

[Hgalum50]

If any of you remember it was the same in 4A there was PA and there was Shiloh then everybody else!

[MDXPHD]

Yawn....
Just beat them instead of whining about them.
Imbedded in the transfer and financial aid comments is a backhanded recruiting allegation.
I haven't seen them trolling elementary schools, which is when the way overwhelming majority of these kids started at PA.
Give it a rest. Prepare your team to beat PA. And overcome their coach's offensive genius. And before you argue about the genius part, note the different things they do, how well they do it, and that no one, for the most part, has seemed to be able to figure out how to replicate it or stop it.

This should be the deadest of all the horses. But it's not a horse. It's a herd of cats, all with 9 lives. And it just won't die.

I'm not saying they recruit. But the numbers show a correlation between how many kids on financial aid in a specific sport and success. You can infer whatever you want with that.

And you're right. These other lazy teams need to man up, work hard, and beat PA and their coaching (not their 5-8 D-1 players on each team, that's irrelevant. Plus, they're only D1 because of coaching).

You know, if all the PA fans stopped living in denial, there wouldn't be near as much debate on here. And it also wouldn't be near as fun to cast my hook out lol.

[JessieP]

Yawn....
Just beat them instead of whining about them.
Imbedded in the transfer and financial aid comments is a backhanded recruiting allegation.
I haven't seen them trolling elementary schools, which is when the way overwhelming majority of these kids started at PA.
Give it a rest. Prepare your team to beat PA. And overcome their coach's offensive genius. And before you argue about the genius part, note the different things they do, how well they do it, and that no one, for the most part, has seemed to be able to figure out how to replicate it or stop it.

This should be the deadest of all the horses. But it's not a horse. It's a herd of cats, all with 9 lives. And it just won't die.

Yawn all you want. I submit that maybe some people should raise the bar on what they consider genius. In a small state (Arkansas), mid division (5A), yes Kelly is a genius. Before we start erecting any statues or handing the reigns to a college program let's see how that genius fares against real competition. I guess the coach of East Salt Lake is an uber genius, he had no problem figuring out the mystery that is PA. If PA played in a league with Mater Dei, Bishop Gorman, De La Salle, IMG, Brazelton Academy, Allen, East Plano and St. Joes would an 0-8 record still warrant a genius label? I am taking nothing away from PA's accomplishments I am simply stating that maybe it's fans should come back to reality a little bit. Take pride in your trophies, display them at home. Don't start walking them around the block.

[Yellowcake]

Yawn all you want. I submit that maybe some people should raise the bar on what they consider genius. In a small state (Arkansas), mid division (5A), yes Kelly is a genius. Before we start erecting any statues or handing the reigns to a college program let's see how that genius fares against real competition. I guess the coach of East Salt Lake is an uber genius, he had no problem figuring out the mystery that is PA. If PA played in a league with Mater Dei, Bishop Gorman, De La Salle, IMG, Brazelton Academy, Allen, East Plano and St. Joes would an 0-8 record still warrant a genius label? I am taking nothing away from PA's accomplishments I am simply stating that maybe it's fans should come back to reality a little bit. Take pride in your trophies, display them at home. Don't start walking them around the block.

PA has 300 kids in its high school. Half those are girls. Happy to move up in classification if that's what the AAA decides. But for now, they see fit to make them play with schools with have significantly higher enrollments, but not upwards of 5 to 7 times their enrollment. I know many would like that. See them get mowed over by giant schools with loads of behemoths.

I don't think any PA fans believe PA would dominate against schools with gigantic enrollments. None of them believe we are a top 25 national program. But when you take constant bashing from folks, sometimes you have to defend the school, especially if your kids went or go there currently, as do mine. Currently, PA is in the 5A. Deal with them. Find a way to beat them. Find a way to solve the offensive pressure this coach puts on you. If he's not all that smart and has a significantly smaller pool of kids to draw from, then their should be a regular cornucopia of coaches and teams out there that should be able to drill them into the ground. But that's not what's happening.

By the way MPX, good work. You got me again. Wasting my time with stick in hand, just whipping on this horse. Spent all morning getting this treble hook out.  Not going to make it to Batesville tonight. Hope you guys can get a win against Wynne.

[Red Devil Alum]

It has pretty much. Taking away boundaries would almost make it easier for PA. And I think we should just simplify this: offer financial aid to more than 15 percent (or some other arbitrary number I make up) and you have to play in 7A. I just solved the problem.

Since every public school offers 100% financial aid to students, your plan would have about 180 teams in 7A. It would make the playoffs take a long time.

[MDXPHD]

Since every public school offers 100% financial aid to students, your plan would have about 180 teams in 7A. It would make the playoffs take a long time.

Oh sorry. I mean schools that get to be selective and turn kids away that aren't smart enough or good enough athletes. My bad.

[DoYouKnowWhoIThinkIam]

Well that's what happens when you are the best overall team in the state....

Just cause WessMoore says it, don't make it true.  Numbnuts!

[Hogman2018]

Tell ur genius to go coach at LR Fair and see if he can win?

[DoYouKnowWhoIThinkIam]

Oh sorry. I mean schools that get to be selective and turn kids away that aren't smart enough or good enough athletes. My bad.

+1  You forgot "or are rich enough". 

[DoYouKnowWhoIThinkIam]

Yawn....
Just beat them instead of whining about them.
Imbedded in the transfer and financial aid comments is a backhanded recruiting allegation.
I haven't seen them trolling elementary schools, which is when the way overwhelming majority of these kids started at PA.
Give it a rest. Prepare your team to beat PA. And overcome their coach's offensive genius. And before you argue about the genius part, note the different things they do, how well they do it, and that no one, for the most part, has seemed to be able to figure out how to replicate it or stop it.

This should be the deadest of all the horses. But it's not a horse. It's a herd of cats, all with 9 lives. And it just won't die.

I'd pay good money to see the actual statistics of when each of the members of the football team started attending the PA school system.

Now THAT would bring some good discussions to FF!!   Care to post some stats Yellow?

[Maynard G Krebs]

Albeit, 10 years ago when my son was on the team, about 75% of the team members had been at PA since kindergarten or first grade.  As like any school, families relocate to LR and a few didn't start PA until a little later.  I only remember a couple of players that came in after the 8th grade and they came from Christ the King and did not want to go to Catholic. 

I suspect the numbers haven't changed very much.

[Bruin Backer]

Rather than labeling a coach such as Kelly as a genius, I think a better term would be ingenious. The dictionary definition is, "(an idea)...cleverly and originally devised and well suited to its purpose". Can PA match up well against parochial schools in Southern and Northern Calif. and Las Vegas, or a sports oriented school in Florida? I doubt ii, but so what? Can PA match up against Allen, Texas in a 7 on 7 game? They certainly have done so in the past. Can they match up as well in an 11 on 11 game? Probably not. Can they always beat schools like East with 1,900 students? Apparently not.

PA is an Arkansas high school with around 400 in grades 9-12 that plays in the 5A classification.  In addition, it schedules games against teams from outside of its classification, regardless of size or location. Its "purpose" is to win the 5A championship and play competitively against all their opponents. As such, its offensive and defensive schemes are ingenious, in that they are cleverly and originally devised and well suited to their purpose. Kelly's pass oriented offensive works well when he has a good QB and receivers that are better than the other team's secondary (LRCA used the same approach against PA). Kelly's "ingenious" approach has helped PA to be dominate 5A football in Arkansas, and to be competitive in almost all games they play.

Debating whether or not Kelly's approach would work at a different classification in Arkansas, at any college level, or at the NFL level is useless speculation. It assumes too much, because it is predicated on all things being equal. IF a Kelly coached team at a different level had a great QB and receivers, and IF their opponents generally had less talented secondaries, and IF he had an OL that could generally protect the QB, and IF the other teams weren't so much bigger and talented offensively that they could overwhelm the defense, and IF and IF and IF, then he might be just as successful at a different level. However, all things are never equal. 

Everyone is assuming Kelly would approach the game at the college level the same way he does at the 5A level in Arkansas. What makes any coach a genius is the ability to be ingenious. Who's to say that Kelly wouldn't look at the talent and strengths he has on his team at a different level, and the talent and strengths of the opponents he will be facing, and devise a clever and original running game that only uses the pass four or five times a game? None of us do, or can, know the answer, which makes this continuing apples versus oranges discussion so pointless.

When should we start a thread about moving LR Parkview to the 8A classification? Most people assume their current improvement is due to their new coach. Few people realize that all students in the LR, NRL and Pulaski County School districts are eligible to attend Parkview. If the lack of "boundaries" is an advantage for private schools, then the similar lack of boundaries for a public school like Parkview will surely give them an advantage. 

[Maynard G Krebs]

Well said.

[beach bum]

By all you PA haters arguments why does Baptist Prep, CAC, and Episcopal stink at football right now?? They do not have boundaries lines either.

[Red Devil Alum]

I'd pay good money to see the actual statistics of when each of the members of the football team started attending the PA school system.

Now THAT would bring some good discussions to FF!!   Care to post some stats Yellow?

Those stats don't support your point, so I don't think you would care for them.  Overwhelming majority of football players (including the good ones) start at PA in Kindergarten or lower school. They go through the entire middle school football program. It is very rare that a player shows up for high school and plays football.

[Chief_Osceola™]

By all you PA haters arguments why does Baptist Prep, CAC, and Episcopal stink at football right now?? They do not have boundaries lines either.

They're only getting the high 2-star, low 3-star "diamond in the rough" recruits. PA is pulling all the blue chips.

[JessieP]

To me the sticking point on the "recruiting" debate is the financial aid issue. People tell stories about how aid is given by 3rd party with no knowledge of whether they play football or not (wink wink). If that were true then the percentage of kids receiving aid would be flat-line even, the exact same as the student body in general. If there were a 2% uptick in football players receiving aid compared to others it would raise eyebrows. The number of football players on aid is substantially higher. Why? Is it just a freak coincidence? a mathematical anomaly that occurs year after year? An anomaly that yields outstanding results.

The reason for my sarcastic "wink wink" was that Alabama, USC, Penn State, Oklahoma State and the Granddaddy of them all, SMU, all had compliance offices that were supposed to be 3rd party independent of the football team. In every case the coaches were able to "throw some past them".

You ask why so many people bash PA. Is a lot of it jealousy? yes. A lot, not all. With apologies to Dr. Henry Lee during the OJ trial, something not right with this picture. Add to that when some people say things like "you know why they win? it's because they work harder. They lift weights during summer, even when the field house is closed". Really Einstein? it's called playing football. The kids at Paragould do that. Ignorant bragging like that just throws fuel on the fire.

[JacketDad]

By all you PA haters arguments why does Baptist Prep, CAC, and Episcopal stink at football right now?? They do not have boundaries lines either.

Maybe, just maybe, they have a conscience!!

[DEVIL DOG HOG]

It wouldn't be hard to move PA to class 6A for football only.  Move Greenwood to the 5A West, move Vilonia to the 5A Central.

[DoYouKnowWhoIThinkIam]

Albeit, 10 years ago when my son was on the team, about 75% of the team members had been at PA since kindergarten or first grade.  As like any school, families relocate to LR and a few didn't start PA until a little later.  I only remember a couple of players that came in after the 8th grade and they came from Christ the King and did not want to go to Catholic. 

I suspect the numbers haven't changed very much.

I hear what you're saying.  I just don't think anyone wants to pony up the stats.........

[DoYouKnowWhoIThinkIam]

By all you PA haters arguments why does Baptist Prep, CAC, and Episcopal stink at football right now?? They do not have boundaries lines either.

They don't employ full-time recruiters. 

[Red Devil Alum]

I'm finally convinced. PA only wins because it recruits the best players from a wide area, and then pays for their tuition. PA's coaching staff is nothing special, and the players actually don't work as hard as Green County Tech, but get by on their superior athletic ability.

Nonetheless, I hope they beat Sylvan Hills tonight.

[WMc]

As you will see, I almost never post, but I do check in from time to time. Mainly to see if Maynard continues to embarrass himself. But this string is hilarious. Do you realize how long this pointless nonsense has gone on?
Here is a post of mine from TEN YEARS AGO:

"Yet another thinly veiled "recruiting" and "unfair advantage" allegation. Here are some facts. Last year's championship team (2008) was senior dominated. Only two or three underclassmen had any significant playing time. Of the 18 starting seniors, 13 started PA in kindergarten. Neil Barlow and D.J. Daniel enrolled in the 9th grade: transfers from the Catholic elementaries that only go through the 8th. For them, it was either PA or Catholic. Spencer Keith came in in the 6th grade when his parents moved from Stuttgart to Little Rock. Trent Peterson came in Jr. High, when his parents moved from out of state."

Not one single player on that championship team could even remotely considered to have been recruited. Not one of them came to PA to play football. At least 5 of them are now medical school graduates. And yet it continues.

[DoYouKnowWhoIThinkIam]

As you will see, I almost never post, but I do check in from time to time. Mainly to see if Maynard continues to embarrass himself. But this string is hilarious. Do you realize how long this pointless nonsense has gone on?
Here is a post of mine from TEN YEARS AGO:

"Yet another thinly veiled "recruiting" and "unfair advantage" allegation. Here are some facts. Last year's championship team (2008) was senior dominated. Only two or three underclassmen had any significant playing time. Of the 18 starting seniors, 13 started PA in kindergarten. Neil Barlow and D.J. Daniel enrolled in the 9th grade: transfers from the Catholic elementaries that only go through the 8th. For them, it was either PA or Catholic. Spencer Keith came in in the 6th grade when his parents moved from Stuttgart to Little Rock. Trent Peterson came in Jr. High, when his parents moved from out of state."

Not one single player on that championship team could even remotely considered to have been recruited. Not one of them came to PA to play football. At least 5 of them are now medical school graduates. And yet it continues.

So you're saying PA hasn't or isn't recruiting players?

[Maynard G Krebs]

After his post, you ask a question that sounds like Perry Mason.  Be careful, for you may be unaware of this guy's profession

[beach bum]

So you're saying PA hasn't or isn't recruiting players?

No, and they could beat Greenwood by 30 this year.

[DoYouKnowWhoIThinkIam]

No, and they could beat Greenwood by 30 this year.

Didn't i already put you in your place for getting on here after you've been drinking all day?