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Offline bbfan89

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Changes to the AAA
« on: March 05, 2017, 09:15:50 pm »
What can be done to improve prep basketball in Arkansas?
Finals schedules, blended conferences, fewer classifications
a private school championship, a shot clock in the last two minutes.
Just throwing out a few of the hot topic issues for intelligent discussion.

Offline BirdCall

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2017, 10:03:10 pm »
We need a shot clock for the whole game in Arkansas not just the last two mins.

Offline R. A.

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2017, 08:13:52 am »
Shot Clock....

Offline Redwolves8526

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2017, 08:57:13 am »
A frikin shot clock. Stop letting teams take the air out of the ball. That's not basketball in my opinion

Offline Grizzlyfan

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2017, 09:00:23 am »
A frikin shot clock. Stop letting teams take the air out of the ball. That's not basketball in my opinion
I don't enjoy watching it either.  But that was basketball a lot longer than the shot clock was basketball.

Online BW2015

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2017, 09:07:43 am »
A frikin shot clock. Stop letting teams take the air out of the ball. That's not basketball in my opinion

The teams need to play some defense and force a turnover.  Can't complain about it when you have a way to stop it but won't and just want the clock to stop them for you! 

Offline Ice Water

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2017, 09:18:22 am »
A frikin shot clock. Stop letting teams take the air out of the ball. That's not basketball in my opinion

So is a football team bleeding the play clock and pounding the ground game not football?  Or a soccer team playing a possessive keep-away not soccer?

Online 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2017, 11:15:09 am »
Shot clock would improve the fan experience, no doubt, would also force coaches to coach better possession management, would give defenses a great advantage...if they rebound well.  All in all, it would make the game much more exciting.  Those other comments about taking advantage of current rules are moot in my opinion.

However, the original question to this thread was what could be done to improve basketball...

Have senior high coaches take a greater role in supporting and developing the elementary basketball leagues.  It's amazing how many large schools have communities that have weak elementary leagues with limited facilities, coaches, and practice time.  Then dedicate more time to skills such as shooting and ball handling during the spring-summer-fall.

Offline STBruin

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2017, 04:37:51 pm »
Shot clock...and basketball officiating workshops

Offline Central AR

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2017, 07:13:24 pm »
Whose paying to set up shot clock's in each school? I don't even think I can trust some English teacher running one of these in a game. I love the idea and it should be enforced but running a shot clock is tough for people who do it in NBA games sometimes. They have replay to fix it. High school won't.

Offline ricepig

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2017, 07:16:32 pm »
Whose paying to set up shot clock's in each school? I don't even think I can trust some English teacher running one of these in a game. I love the idea and it should be enforced but running a shot clock is tough for people who do it in NBA games sometimes. They have replay to fix it. High school won't.

Well, they've managed to overcome that problem in the 8 states that use a shot clock in high school.

Offline Lrbasketballguru

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2017, 07:21:48 pm »
Jammin for jackets enforces a shot clock that works smoothly and enables the better team to almost always win (no stall). It's a thing of beauty.

Offline sevenof400

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2017, 08:07:01 pm »
The teams need to play some defense and force a turnover.  Can't complain about it when you have a way to stop it but won't and just want the clock to stop them for you!

For the win! 

Offline Redwolves8526

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2017, 10:25:30 am »
So is a football team bleeding the play clock and pounding the ground game not football?  Or a soccer team playing a possessive keep-away not soccer?

They have a game clock...you have the opportunity to stop them. In a way that works like a shot clock. In basketball, no matter how well you play defense, if a team passes and moves the ball well, the only way to get the ball back is to foul. You may get lucky and get a turnover or two, but teams that come down and take two minutes off the clock is cowardly to me.

As far as soccer? Have never watched a game in my life. Someone else can figure that one out

Offline Redwolves8526

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2017, 10:26:44 am »
I don't enjoy watching it either.  But that was basketball a lot longer than the shot clock was basketball.

Fair point. I just think the game has evolved enough to where high schools should be using them. No one needs to 2-3 minutes to get a bucket

Online 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2017, 11:27:50 am »
Redwolve makes incredibly valid, logical points.  The biggest hurdle would be mounting the shot clock lights on the backboards and paying for it, along with the new remote controls. 
I also think Geno was right last year when he was quoted as saying that women's basketball should be playing on 9foot goals like womens volleyball does.  However, that would require $$$ to purchase adjustable goals in every gym.  Men's and women's VB nets are a foot difference in height; womens 100m hurdles are lower than the 110m mens high hurdles; women's high jump entry height is far lower than mens in track, yet, we complain about women's basketball being boring expecting them to be as athletic and big as the guys...

Offline sevenof400

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2017, 06:27:59 pm »
Redwolve makes incredibly valid, logical points.  The biggest hurdle would be mounting the shot clock lights on the backboards and paying for it, along with the new remote controls. 
I also think Geno was right last year when he was quoted as saying that women's basketball should be playing on 9foot goals like womens volleyball does.  However, that would require $$$ to purchase adjustable goals in every gym.  Men's and women's VB nets are a foot difference in height; womens 100m hurdles are lower than the 110m mens high hurdles; women's high jump entry height is far lower than mens in track, yet, we complain about women's basketball being boring expecting them to be as athletic and big as the guys...

FWIW: Women's HS net height is 7 ft 4 1/8 inches  and men's HS net height is 7 ft 11 5/8 inches.

Online VHSCoach2

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2017, 06:43:29 pm »
They have a game clock...you have the opportunity to stop them. In a way that works like a shot clock. In basketball, no matter how well you play defense, if a team passes and moves the ball well, the only way to get the ball back is to foul. You may get lucky and get a turnover or two, but teams that come down and take two minutes off the clock is cowardly to me.

As far as soccer? Have never watched a game in my life. Someone else can figure that one out

Well, you're certainly missing out.

Offline arstatechamp13

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2017, 10:27:12 am »
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you think you want a shot clock, watch California basketball.

Offline B.G.

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2017, 10:32:01 am »
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you think you want a shot clock, watch California basketball.
Shot clock is not really a AAA deal.

Offline B.G.

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2017, 10:33:40 am »
The cost of the shot clock isn't so bad.  It's a one time cost.

The issue is paying someone to do that for every game.  That is a singular duty.

Offline elvis26

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2017, 03:56:20 pm »
 ;D I think we definitely need a shot clock!!!!!!!!!! it is way too much stalling in games!!!!!!!!

Offline BirdCall

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2017, 06:40:46 pm »
Shot clock is a needed and until it does basketball in Arkansas will continue to suck stalling the ball

Offline Ty

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2017, 01:44:17 am »
Individuals who want to spurn progress instead of restricting it would be a good first step.

Offline sevenof400

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2017, 01:18:52 pm »
Individuals who want to spurn progress instead of restricting it would be a good first step.

Define progress.....

Offline athletic supporter

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2017, 10:55:27 pm »
I have a serious question for those who want a shot clock. Are you willing to run it if your school has to implement it?

Offline businesstron

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2017, 09:36:23 am »
Shot clock is a needed and until it does basketball in Arkansas will continue to suck stalling the ball

It doesn't compare to what Skyline in Dallas Texas tried to do this year.  They almost made it to the State title game playing stall ball.   A team with 3 D1 recruits playing stall ball is a terrifying thing. 

Offline BigLion10

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2017, 09:38:45 am »
That PG Skyline has Marcus Garrett is the truth. Headed to play for the Jayhawks at KU in the fall

Offline Redwolves8526

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2017, 01:52:44 pm »
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you think you want a shot clock, watch California basketball.

Explain

Offline sevenof400

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2017, 04:07:18 pm »
It doesn't compare to what Skyline in Dallas Texas tried to do this year.  They almost made it to the State title game playing stall ball.   A team with 3 D1 recruits playing stall ball is a terrifying thing.

In what way?  If you can't beat them, they must be doing something right.

Offline blueandwhite

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2017, 11:33:36 am »
A team holding the ball for 2 or 3 minutes, also means that the defense is not coming out and guarding them.

Why should we award the defense for sitting in zone packed into the lane with a shot clock, making the offense have to shoot the ball?

Offline SUGARTOWN

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2017, 02:57:11 pm »
The cost of the shot clock isn't so bad.  It's a one time cost.

The issue is paying someone to do that for every game.  That is a singular duty.

Not just finding someone to do it, but finding someone who can do it properly will be a hassle for some places as well.

Online 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2017, 04:30:46 pm »
Just hire the guy who does play clock for your FB games

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2017, 04:42:29 pm »
Just hire the guy who does play clock for your FB games
Most of the time it's the same guy running the play clock. That won't work for basketball.

Offline businesstron

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2017, 03:54:19 pm »

Offline Oldref

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2017, 02:16:03 pm »
Not just finding someone to do it, but finding someone who can do it properly will be a hassle for some places as well.

 Not a huge fan of having a shot clock but here is my suggestion if it ever happens.

 Shot clock would have to be done correctly and with someone who is knowledgeable and it would be a costly addition when you calculate its additional cost every game. My suggestion is to do away with one of the officials and go back to two man crews and use the extra money for a shot clock official. Three man crews are a huge waste of money in my opinion. I think officials did much better with two man crews anyway. Now they spend too much time looking at each other to see who is going to  make that block charge call. JMO

Offline Grizzlyfan

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2017, 02:37:15 pm »
Not a huge fan of having a shot clock but here is my suggestion if it ever happens.

 Shot clock would have to be done correctly and with someone who is knowledgeable and it would be a costly addition when you calculate its additional cost every game. My suggestion is to do away with one of the officials and go back to two man crews and use the extra money for a shot clock official. Three man crews are a huge waste of money in my opinion. I think officials did much better with two man crews anyway. Now they spend too much time looking at each other to see who is going to  make that block charge call. JMO
That is an interesting take from someone who, I assume, is really an old referee.

Offline Oldref

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2017, 10:22:37 pm »
That is an interesting take from someone who, I assume, is really an old referee.

Yes and heavy emphasis on OLD LOL. 

Offline nuttinbuthogs

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2017, 10:38:13 pm »
It's a game about coaches and kids.  It's not about making fans happy with an uptempo game.  No matter how much you don't like a team taking the air our of the ball, that may be their best strategy for winning against a given opponent.  It should be that coaches decision based on his players.

Offline sevenof400

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2017, 09:02:42 am »
This might explain it a little bit...better.

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/high-school/high-schools/2017/03/04/class-6a-regional-finals-skyline-stymies-potentklein-forest-offense-wins-last-second-layups

Thanks for that link, Businesstron. 

Beautiful execution by Skyline it would seem.  That's the beauty of all sports but basketball in particular - in the clash of styles, which team can impose its will? 

Offline blueandwhite

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2017, 02:02:06 pm »
Not a huge fan of having a shot clock but here is my suggestion if it ever happens.

 Shot clock would have to be done correctly and with someone who is knowledgeable and it would be a costly addition when you calculate its additional cost every game. My suggestion is to do away with one of the officials and go back to two man crews and use the extra money for a shot clock official. Three man crews are a huge waste of money in my opinion. I think officials did much better with two man crews anyway. Now they spend too much time looking at each other to see who is going to  make that block charge call. JMO

From a current ref that does both 2 man and 3 man, it would be a mistake to do it this way. Shot clock=more trips up and down the court. The speed of the game is a lot faster than it was 10 years ago.

When I do 2 man crews I always feel I am out of position a lot more on fast breaks when I am going from trail to lead, than I am in a 3 man crew. The other good point of 3 man crews is that you have two sets of eyes on a fast break.

Offline Longfellow

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2017, 02:06:54 pm »
From a current ref that does both 2 man and 3 man, it would be a mistake to do it this way. Shot clock=more trips up and down the court. The speed of the game is a lot faster than it was 10 years ago.

When I do 2 man crews I always feel I am out of position a lot more on fast breaks when I am going from trail to lead, than I am in a 3 man crew. The other good point of 3 man crews is that you have two sets of eyes on a fast break.
That's why I would be against 2-man crews. Speed of the game creates too many problems on the break

Offline Oldref

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2017, 04:25:11 pm »
That's why I would be against 2-man crews. Speed of the game creates too many problems on the break

Just so you know my position......I am not for a shot clock any way shape or form but would not doubt it will happen some day. As for my suggestion for two man crews that was simply my suggestion on how to do it and keep cost down. Now I only worked about two years with three man crews the rest of my days were two man crews. I am sure no current officials would want to go back to that because it would take 1/3 of them off the floor every night. I am just saying I don't think games have automatically been called better since we went to three man crews. I know schools pay more for three but not sure they get a better product. Watched a tournament last two years in Mountain View/ Liberty HS in  Missouri that Bay girls played in and won and they used two man crews. Games went fine and were well called games. There is a crisis coming and already here in some places to come up with three good officials every place every night. Lucky to get two good ones most nights. Going back to two would help and actually weed out the weaker ones. Not sure what year everyone went to three but best I can remember is was about 1990. I still think it is not needed most places most nights. Again JMO

Offline Longfellow

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2017, 06:57:43 pm »
I get what you're saying. My only reservation with 2 man crews is that most of the refs we have in our conference are older guys. I don't think they would last in a 2 man system. Wouldn't be a problem if more young guys would get certified

Online 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2017, 10:05:38 pm »
Refs are less likely to get feelings hurt by each other in two man by worrying less about what's in your area vs his.  Lot of small conferences were still running two man crews in early 2000s and I never noticed any consistent improvements upon the move to three man crews.  The fees for officials go up every few years, thus the costs for families with multiple kids is ridiculous to pay to come watch their own child play

Offline 1-Adam-12

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2017, 09:55:16 am »
It's a game about coaches and kids.  It's not about making fans happy with an uptempo game.  No matter how much you don't like a team taking the air our of the ball, that may be their best strategy for winning against a given opponent.  It should be that coaches decision based on his players.

Case in point:  Booneville vs. Huntsville girls, 2007 regionals 1st round at Clinton.  Booneville 10-16 going in and Huntsville as I recall 24-2.  In an up and down game Booneville would have had little chance.  But the Booneville coach chose to play a very patient game and rely on her defense. 

I will say Huntsville played right into their hands by not taking shots on their end that with their given talent they should have made.  Instead it comes down to a Booneville possession at the end of the game in which they ran off 41 of the 50 seconds left and converted to win 29-28.  Their only lead of the game. Huntsville didn't score in the 4th quarter.

As to the shot clock debate itself I think it would make the game more exciting to watch, but pretty well eliminate chances for even a decent team to spring the surprise of a very good team.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 10:04:06 am by 1-Adam-12 »

 

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