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Public & Private School Issues Merged Thread (2009)

Started by football_writer, August 01, 2006, 02:59:46 pm

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True/False  Public Students must attend the HS in their district?

True
3 (8.1%)
False
34 (91.9%)

Total Members Voted: 34

johnharrison

Well heck, if the privates just have to play at the highest level, I think PA, LRCA, CAC, and Catholic might just suck it up and play.

Shiloh would still rather beat up on someone who doesn't belong on the same field.

Billyo62

Quote from: johnharrison on July 27, 2009, 05:10:00 pm
Well heck, if the privates just have to play at the highest level, I think PA, LRCA, CAC, and Catholic might just suck it up and play.

Shiloh would still rather beat up on someone who doesn't belong on the same field.

You may be right!  ;D

ArkBuc

Although I don't think Shiloh can win consistently in 7A over the course of a conference season (not enough depth), they are not ducking 7A opponents.  7A is ducking them.

johnharrison


AAAspectator

July 27, 2009, 07:49:56 pm #1354 Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 12:39:17 pm by AAAspectator
Quote from: johnharrison on July 27, 2009, 04:16:05 pmI am going to risk a guess that there is NO WAY the AAA can may a rule that affects "all private schools but Catholic"

The proposal reads all tuition assistance schools. The Catholic schools do not give tuition assistance.

It's a public relations issue. All the other major private schools have to worry about each other and public schools. In the corner the boosters and leeches of shiloh make the entire state despise their school as they make a profit off it. If there was another private school close, maybe they wouldn't act that way. Until then, the best way to control this one school is a statewide issue. Because they are a member of the AAA, the public schools can't just not play them. I've heard some pretty reliable information as to how NWA is going to slow down. Here's a hint....AAA only governs Sr. high

johnharrison

I know of at least one Catholic boy, in a bad family situation, was told "not to worry" about tuition.

Fortunately, I think that is what THEY SHOULD do.

Billyo62

Quote from: ArkBuc on July 27, 2009, 05:53:44 pm
Although I don't think Shiloh can win consistently in 7A over the course of a conference season (not enough depth), they are not ducking 7A opponents.  7A is ducking them.

Who from the 7A is Ducking a 4A school?

AAAspectator

What does a 7A get from beating them? a lot more excuses. But if shiloh was to win, it'd be more of the pinnacle pimps boasting about their greatness.

In my opinion, the best way to shut them up would be send them to 2A where there enrollment puts them.

Billyo62

Quote from: AAAspectator on July 28, 2009, 12:46:57 pm
What does a 7A get from beating them? a lot more excuses. But if shiloh was to win, it'd be more of the pinnacle pimps boasting about their greatness.

In my opinion, the best way to shut them up would be send them to 2A where there enrollment puts them.

Exactly, they can call and ask for a game all they want to, big deal, what does a tiny little private school bring to the table for a 7A School ... NOTHING!     Go away or get bigger then maybe we will listen!

farfromgroovins

Quote from: AAAspectator on July 28, 2009, 12:46:57 pm
In my opinion, the best way to shut them up would be send them to 2A where there enrollment puts them.

That actually sounds like a great idea. Let them beat the snot out of the other 2A teams for a while then the luster will eventually wear off and they won't be so special anymore. They will cry and cry to "move me up" or "we want to play the big boys" but everyone can ignore them or tell them, "no, you are where you belong."

Maybe we jumped the gun with them (actually, us, my kids go to private school) years ago and should have just rode it out. Playing at a lower classification means the stage isn't as big and the kids want to be noticed. Talent is talent but it is a lot harder to convince D-I schools you are legit when you are mowing over opponents without the same guns.



AAAspectator

That would be classic. Of course the pimps would still boast about "greatest program in the state". Do the Little Rock schools have pimps like their northern corner school?

As much fun as it is to poke holes in their balloon, I think that we all need to just leave it alone. Don't scratch the itch. If they post ignore it. Even better if a mod would delete it. Maybe the vote and us not acknowledging them would make them go away.

I've lost my belief that Rivals is credible. I think the local Rivals guy is in with the pimps. Last post.

Tigerfbfan20

Quote from: outlaw39 on July 08, 2009, 05:53:40 pm


3. I have said MANY times that the answer to the public vs. private whine-fest is for the public schools to man up and put out the same effort getting better that they use trying to get rid of them. Nashville, Junction City, Glen Rose, Rison, etc. are perfect examples of public schools that put forth the effort to beat the privates instead of whining to get rid of them.


Nashville's success over the past years is remarkable. However, their athletic director..oops
Superintendent has worked diligently to move the private schools from Class 3A (now 4A), From the 1.75 multiplier,the current system, and to the pending proposal to establish a seperate Private school playoff system. The athletic director...oops Superintendent was one of 3 AAA directors to give the Private school playoff proposal a do pass vote. 15 directors voted to not pass the proposal. Wonder how Nashville's Superintendent/athletic director will vote on August 4?

So while Nashville has indeed put forth the effort to beat all competition, their administration has put forth considerable effort to get rid of them as well.

johnharrison


QPWFB

They don't want rid of them ,just moved to their own conference for playoff action.They would still be apart of AAA.

johnharrison

Actually what they should do is move them to the appropriate class based on enrollment. 

Although them to play in a conference and petition every 2 years if they want to move up.

Then do a playoff.

Heck 75% of the privates don't make the playoffs now.  This will give them a chance.

In fact in a few more years Berryville might want to start a conference for "schools that really suck at football" and set up their own playoff too, with a trophy for participation.

Billyo62

Quote from: johnharrison on July 29, 2009, 03:07:17 pm
Actually what they should do is move them to the appropriate class based on enrollment. 

Although them to play in a conference and petition every 2 years if they want to move up.

Then do a playoff.

Heck 75% of the privates don't make the playoffs now.  This will give them a chance.

In fact in a few more years Berryville might want to start a conference for "schools that really suck at football" and set up their own playoff too, with a trophy for participation.

Now that was good, I agree with that totally! Except you forgot about the Pizza Party to go along with the Participation Trophy!  ;D

forcephil

And, let's remember to use football to determine conferences for all other sports, too! 

QPWFB

Don't forget about the non football private schools,just as well put them in 1A that way they can win a few more state titles in all the other sports. Thats the least we could do for them,we owe it to them.

johnharrison

Quote from: QPWFB on July 30, 2009, 06:19:55 am
Don't forget about the non football private schools,just as well put them in 1A that way they can win a few more state titles in all the other sports. Thats the least we could do for them,we owe it to them.

Do they have 1A soccer, volleyball, and crosscountry, or do they just roll them into the larger groups.

Wahls

Quote from: johnharrison on July 30, 2009, 07:05:47 am
Quote from: QPWFB on July 30, 2009, 06:19:55 am
Don't forget about the non football private schools,just as well put them in 1A that way they can win a few more state titles in all the other sports. Thats the least we could do for them,we owe it to them.

Do they have 1A soccer, volleyball, and crosscountry, or do they just roll them into the larger groups.

Soccer starts with 4a. Little bitty 1a Wickes is a 4a soccer school

johnharrison

yeah, so setting classifcation by football won't work

Eddie Goodson

Quote from: johnharrison on July 30, 2009, 09:40:21 am
yeah, so setting classifcation by football won't work
IMO, classification should be different for every sport with some sort of power ranking system used to determine the classes. Abandon the classes based solely on population of schools. It could be a factor, but I think recent success should be involved also.

That might mean SC and Nashville end up in the 6A where North Pulaski might end up in the 3A or 4A. Reclassification should be done every year with the previous three seasons used to determine the power ranking.

Borrowing Louisiana's power system would be a start.

Apply the same system to each sport individually.

PA might be 6A in football and 3A in basketball.

The competition would improve at all levels.

gatecrasher

I'd love to see SCS in 6A. Then we would show you the antidote to the crybaby tactics that the AAA has before them.

Billyo62

Quote from: gatecrasherfan on July 30, 2009, 10:11:09 am
I'd love to see SCS in 6A. Then we would show you the antidote to the crybaby tactics that the AAA has before them.

I'd love to see Bentonville in the 4A or 5A in basketball ( Not saying we would do any better, but maybe we would look a little better )  ;)

Eddie Goodson

The cream would rise to the top every year and the rest would stratify into competitiveness. It would put a stop to the complaints. 

The baseball classes would be really changed too.

Billyo62

Quote from: Eddie Goodson on July 30, 2009, 10:20:42 am
The cream would rise to the top every year and the rest would stratify into competitiveness. It would put a stop to the complaints. 

The baseball classes would be really changed too.

Baseball would be the biggest change of any sport- IMO.

DEBO64ETOWN

Now that's a great idea. The AAA don't realize how much money they would make state wide. Eddie, get the wheels turning.

JJ

What do you think will be the outcome next week? Lot of opinions. I think
everyoe is a loser if the Privates are kicked out, but a lot of hard feeling on this subject. I like what we have now, but that is just me.

JJ


T-Wacker

Quote from: JJ on July 30, 2009, 02:46:18 pm
What do you think will be the outcome next week? Lot of opinions. I think
everyoe is a loser if the Privates are kicked out, but a lot of hard feeling on this subject. I like what we have now, but that is just me.

I don't know, but please don't use the words "privates" and "kicked" in the same sentence!

parpar

I suspect it will get a majority vote, but not the 2/3 necessary.

fourpeat

I believe that if Shiloh gets moved to 7A, they will go from having 6-7 d-1 athletes, to 15-20.  It will promote their program more than you can imagine.  Dropping them back to 2A can't possibly be fair to the other 2A schools who don't have access to the NWA metroplex athletes.  No matter which classification they're in is unacceptable.  Dropping them from playoff participation, or just giving them their own playoffs is the only fair thing to do.  As I've "whined" about for over a decade now, I'll say it again: access to athletes is the issue, and some of the private schools take advantage of that access, while others don't.  The AAA has allowed them to form these all-star teams, and now, the AAA has the power now to change this.  I sencerely hope that they make the right choice.

JJ


JJ

Kind of hope you are right as I like the set up we have now. Everyone is a loser if it passes! Everyone that likes COMPETITION anyway. The biggest loser for the moment at least wil be Private Football programs, but everyone will suffer some and eventually with gates. My concern is the national trend for folks to be afraid of competition. The mentality that we need more classes and more State Champs. I think Greenwood and great programs want to play the best, but there is a group out there that is only interested an EASY set up. I will never understand how any of us PUBLICS CAN SAY RECRUITING is not on both sides and better regulated on the Privates side. I think beating Shilo and PA is the neatest thing in the world and I am going to be upset if the NON COMPETITIVES take that away from us! Life will go on what ever happens and just hope we quit watering down the COMPETITION eventually. The Privates will survive-they always have. I am a strong believer in Public Education, but America is supposed to be free for all.

c_bobcat_pioneers

Privates being kicked out=loser lol.    Hey, why haven't your threads been merged?

johnharrison

Does Subiaco collect all star teams
Does Lutheran collect all star team
Does St. Joe collect all star teams
Does Episcopal collect all star teams
Does Arkansas Baptist collect all star teams
Does Catholic collect all start teams
Does Union Christian collect all star teams

You even have a hard time convincing me that PA,CAC,LRCA collect "all" star teams because they would have to pick one or the other.


You, and everyone else, knows that in most of these schools their players have been in the schools for years, a decade even. 

Sure, Shiloh gets a few players who show up for HS ball in the same way Glen Rose, Nashville, PC and Barton get "transfers" who want to play for a championship contender.

Why do they play for Shiloh?  Among other reasons, exposure and opportunities for college scholarships.  Kick Shiloh out of the playoffs and they will be a charter member of a regional playoff system that will give them exposure far beyond what they have, giving them the number of D1 athletes you listed above. 

Like Evangel, they will have their heydey and decline.  Waiting will do the same thing as dumping on all the private schools.

Me, I'd like to see a stop to the "pseudo" transfers to small town powerhouses that dominate year after year.


transplant

Quote from: johnharrison on July 31, 2009, 10:56:05 am

I'd like to see a stop to the "pseudo" transfers to small town powerhouses that dominate year after year.


Have your AD take proposed legislation to the next AAA meeting, see what the members of the organization say. 

gatecrasher


johnharrison

Pseudo transfers -  kids who have lived in one town all their life and "move" into a rented shack (owned by a school supporter) in a new town, but their parents and siblings just happen to work and attend school and church in the "other house", or move in with an "aunt" in order to play for a powerhouse.

JJ


johnharrison

Quote from: transplant on July 31, 2009, 11:06:15 am
Quote from: johnharrison on July 31, 2009, 10:56:05 am

I'd like to see a stop to the "pseudo" transfers to small town powerhouses that dominate year after year.


Have your AD take proposed legislation to the next AAA meeting, see what the members of the organization say. 

Heck no, I don't really want it to be passed.  The "have not" schools who lose their homegrown talents to the Greenwood, Barton, Glen Rose and Nashville resent it almost as much as they resent Shiloh.

JJ

The vote is here and we have heard all the opinions. Will it pass?

c_bobcat_pioneers

JJ, shut up with the repeat question until we learn the answer.


gatecrasher

Quote from: johnharrison on July 31, 2009, 11:15:55 am
Pseudo transfers -  kids who have lived in one town all their life and "move" into a rented shack (owned by a school supporter) in a new town, but their parents and siblings just happen to work and attend school and church in the "other house", or move in with an "aunt" in order to play for a powerhouse.
So if my son moves to Hot Springs to live with me (CMS district) but wants a chance at a state championship ring and tells me he wants to go to Lake Hamilton and I utilize school choice to do that, that's a psuedo transfer?

One can say what they want but if that were to happen (actually it almost did....he's in Denham Springs, LA with his mom) I would have to oblige him. You play for the ring.  Any other reason is just wrong.

johnharrison

Sure, and it is no different that a kid choosing to go to Shilow (yuk) for the same reason.

Eddie Goodson

Quote from: johnharrison on July 31, 2009, 04:43:10 pm
Sure, and it is no different that a kid choosing to go to Shilow (yuk) for the same reason.
As Ned Flanders would say, "Abso-doodily-utely." Glad someone else shares that opinion. IMO, the manipulation of school choice among people in public schools is 10X to 20X more of a problem than transfers to a private school.

gatecrasher

Quote from: Eddie Goodson on July 31, 2009, 04:51:42 pm
Quote from: johnharrison on July 31, 2009, 04:43:10 pm
Sure, and it is no different that a kid choosing to go to Shilow (yuk) for the same reason.
As Ned Flanders would say, "Abso-doodily-utely." Glad someone else shares that opinion. IMO, the manipulation of school choice among people in public schools is 10X to 20X more of a problem than transfers to a private school.
So you're saying my son should pass up a chance to play for the jewelry?

What if it was your kid?  You ain't gotta lie.....you know you would.....

Look I am not going to argue about it.....but school choice exists.  It's a sign of the times. 

If you think I'm going to deny my child a once-in-a-lifetime shot at a championship just because it's "right" or "wrong," you're crazier than I thought.....

Eddie Goodson

Quote from: gatecrasherfan on July 31, 2009, 04:56:59 pm
Quote from: Eddie Goodson on July 31, 2009, 04:51:42 pm
Quote from: johnharrison on July 31, 2009, 04:43:10 pm
Sure, and it is no different that a kid choosing to go to Shilow (yuk) for the same reason.
As Ned Flanders would say, "Abso-doodily-utely." Glad someone else shares that opinion. IMO, the manipulation of school choice among people in public schools is 10X to 20X more of a problem than transfers to a private school.
So you're saying my son should pass up a chance to play for the jewelry?

What if it was your kid?  You ain't gotta lie.....you know you would.....

Look I am not going to argue about it.....but school choice exists.  It's a sign of the times. 

If you think I'm going to deny my child a once-in-a-lifetime shot at a championship just because it's "right" or "wrong," you're crazier than I thought.....
I'm saying that the AAA, the governing body of this state's HS athletic programs, says is it improper and illegal to use school choice as a mask for athletics transfers. It's a rule. The rest means nothing.

Billyo62

Quote from: Eddie Goodson on July 31, 2009, 05:03:19 pm
Quote from: gatecrasherfan on July 31, 2009, 04:56:59 pm
Quote from: Eddie Goodson on July 31, 2009, 04:51:42 pm
Quote from: johnharrison on July 31, 2009, 04:43:10 pm
Sure, and it is no different that a kid choosing to go to Shilow (yuk) for the same reason.
As Ned Flanders would say, "Abso-doodily-utely." Glad someone else shares that opinion. IMO, the manipulation of school choice among people in public schools is 10X to 20X more of a problem than transfers to a private school.
So you're saying my son should pass up a chance to play for the jewelry?

What if it was your kid?  You ain't gotta lie.....you know you would.....

Look I am not going to argue about it.....but school choice exists.  It's a sign of the times. 

If you think I'm going to deny my child a once-in-a-lifetime shot at a championship just because it's "right" or "wrong," you're crazier than I thought.....
I'm saying that the AAA, the governing body of this state's HS athletic programs, says is it improper and illegal to use school choice as a mask for athletics transfers. It's a rule. The rest means nothing.

I was pushed out of basketball in High school because 2 Brothers " Transferred " to my high school,  Happens all the time, they broke no rules, may have ruffled a few feathers, they did it to play for our coach, he retired with over 900 wins and many state titles at the highest level. The high school they came from was a joke and no one had any respect for their coach.  After their transfer, both brothers got 4- year college educations paid for.. how is that bad!

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