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Public vs Private Schools Pile (Past/Present/Future/All Classes)

Started by MDXPHD, December 17, 2015, 03:12:54 pm

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Grond

Quote from: gameoflife on December 22, 2015, 01:02:55 pm
You also have to remember, they play at 5A but they have the enrollment of 4A.  How many 4A's have 1-2 D1 a year.

Warren and Dumas come to mind. I am gathering info for a new thread.....  ;)

gameoflife

Maybe I'm just not keeping up with all the D1 athletes in Arkansas, but it doesn't seem like very many. To have all these schools at 4,5,6,7 A having 1-2-3 or whatever D!.

PA Dad

Quote from: gameoflife on December 22, 2015, 01:02:55 pm
You also have to remember, they play at 5A but they have the enrollment of 4A.  How many 4A's have 1-2 D1 a year.

I'd say Warren does for sure.  I'm not so sure about Nashville, but they might.

PA Dad

Quote from: Intelligentsia on December 22, 2015, 12:49:51 pm
Quote from: Grond on December 22, 2015, 12:39:25 pm
Quote from: MDXPHD on December 22, 2015, 12:17:44 pm
Quote from: AirWarren on December 22, 2015, 12:08:03 pm
Dusty Hannahs was also in that class I believe.

He was.

Quote from: PA Dad on December 22, 2015, 12:08:39 pm
Quote from: MDXPHD on December 22, 2015, 12:04:20 pm
Quote from: purpleswag on December 22, 2015, 11:36:31 am
It's safe to say that in general, there are less kids academically-ineligible in private schools than in public schools. This is caused by the private schools' admission process.

In regards with the actual athletes in private schools, they are usually just flat-out better skilled. Notice I said "skilled" not athletes. Parents that can afford to send their kids to private schools can also afford to spend money on their kids to play on select teams which in turn, improve their skills.

It simply comes down to the haves and have nots.

In 2011, the following players were on PA's roster grades 9-12:

Fredi Knighten- Astate
Hunter Henry- Arkansas
Tyler Colquitt- Arkansas
Will Hefley- Tulsa
Will Hastings- Auburn
Jason King- Purdue

This is just football. No telling how many other d-1 athletes were there. I probably missed a couple of football players too lol. A school of 100 per class....

Actually, you did miss some.  I think L.J Wallace (UCA) was on that team too.

But, 2011 was far and away the best team PA has ever had.  It had, by far, the most D-1 athletes.  So, it's hardly fair to put that team out there as being representative of PA teams year to year.

You're right, this isn't year to year, but almost every year PA has at minimum 2 d-1 athletes. Usually more. I would bet that Hatcher and Bruce are both d-1, and I'm sure there are a couple more that will be as well.

You can say the same for other 5A schools, and smaller, in Arkansas: Forrest City, Warren, Junction City, etc.

I can't recall the last time Batesville had a D-1 player.  We had one walk on at Fayetteville around 6 years ago who earned a scholarship his junior year, I think, and Melton played maybe 10 years ago.  Any other Pioneer posters recall others in the last 10-12 years?

Your coach was quoted in the paper as saying that your tight end this year will probably be D-1.

PA Dad

Quote from: FD4 on December 22, 2015, 12:53:52 pm
Dad, I did not read all the posts so this may have discussed already. But, as to the success, your right in that the head coach has made a huge difference.  Like the innovative strategy Mahlzon used, (Hurry up, spread, non returnable kicks and so on) likewise Kevin brings a type of play to the high school level that is simply hard to defend, but only at that level.  So to say the success of PA starts in 03 with the mind set Kevin brings to the table is spot on.  Then you factor in immediate success with the desire to want to play for a winning program, "IF", your intent as an athlete is to move on the next level, you get the majority of the "Blue Chippers" around the area.

Using other private schools from different areas as an example, Shreveport Evangel Christian, many private schools are not "ham strung" with coaching restrictions either due to budgets or rule. SEC has a coach for nearly every position on their football team. QB, RB, OL, DL, Receivers, DB, K, LB, ST and so on, a bus load of coaching specialists.  I would assume several of the private schools in Arkansas have the same.  Aside from Kevin, PA's receiver coach aint too bad either, Props to you Mr. Lucas, and thanks for your hard work as a Hog as well.

I really have no problem with any advantage any team has as long as the student is getting what he and she need in the class room.  However, not saying this exists at PA, but, all private school students "must" live within 25 miles of that school, and a second residence, for the sake of circumventing that rule does not count. 

Where I dwell on the 2A board many have read my post where I say, "In order to be the Man, you have to Beat the Man".  I also apply this to the 5A board.  Victory over a dominate program is a lot sweeter than a run of the mill opponent. PA has been fortunate of late, has taken on all comers and came out on top.  I guess Wynne has given the Bruins the most trouble of any of the publics in the last two years.  Had we attracted the top 15 athletes from the four schools north south east and west of us, that would have been a whole different animal I assure you.  Good luck next season, hope we meet yall down the line.

You make some good points.

I agree that Wynne always gives PA trouble.  There have been some great games between those teams.

AirWarren

Quote from: Grond on December 22, 2015, 01:15:22 pm
Quote from: gameoflife on December 22, 2015, 01:02:55 pm
You also have to remember, they play at 5A but they have the enrollment of 4A.  How many 4A's have 1-2 D1 a year.

Warren and Dumas come to mind. I am gathering info for a new thread.....  ;)

Can't wait!

PA Dad

December 22, 2015, 03:45:04 pm #206 Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 03:46:42 pm by PA Dad
I posted this in the 3A thread regarding public v. private, but thought I'd put it here too because it is germane to our discussion:

The last two paragraphs of the study reflect the division in the courts and also reflect the arguments made in this thread:

"Despite nearly identical facts of the cases and wording of the policies, the
United States District Court for the Eastern District of Missouri came to a
different conclusion in Beck v. MSHSAA (1993) than the 7th Federal Circuit
Court of Appeals in Griffin High School v. Illinois High School Association
(1987). In Beck v. MSHSAA (1993), the court opined "because the case at bar
lacks comparable evidence as to the existence of a 'private school advantage'...
it is not evident to this court how these 'differences' provide non-public
schools an advantage over public schools" (p. 1005). The court went on
to observe, "This court has searched in vain for an explanation of the 'advantage'
that nonpublic schools are afforded over public schools which might justify such an exception to the transfer restriction" (Beck v. MSHSAA, 1993,
p. 1005).

What is missing in the multiplier debate is the question of what it is that
makes successful programs successful, public or private. Jim Place,
Chaminade-Julienne football coach in Ohio who has coached at both public
and private schools, stated "They don't get it. We win because of discipline"
(as cited in Gokavi, 2005, p. C8). Ben Freeman, Pelion public school athletic
director in South Carolina, stated "you always know they're going to have
good teams there....They've always been well-coached, and they're just good
programs" (as cited in Emerson, 2006, ΒΆ32). Byron Williams, the principal at
Salmen High, a public school in Louisiana, stated "I'm the kind of person, if
the bully is whipping my butt on the way to school, take the whipping....Don't
cry and stay home. Get better" (as cited in Longman, 2004, p. D1). Is it possible
that intangibles exist in both public and private schools such as tradition,
high expectations, effective coaching, discipline, and a strong work ethic that
lead to inordinate success? Is it possible that success begets success, and that
the key challenge in athletics is to build a tradition of success rather than legislating
success through a gerrymandered multiplier?"

Here is the source for the quote:  http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ1005884.pdf

It is an interesting, but long, study of the public vs. private debate.

MDXPHD

PA, just petition to go to 6A and take care of all the drama. You can play GW, PB, and ElDo. It would be fun.

the voice

I think greenwood moves down if they petition up, they are the smallest 6a

MDXPHD

Quote from: the voice on December 22, 2015, 03:53:03 pm
I think greenwood moves down if they petition up, they are the smallest 6a

They wouldn't necessarily have to move the smallest though. I'm sure they could move some other school and everyone would be fine with it.

PA Dad

Quote from: MDXPHD on December 22, 2015, 03:51:09 pm
PA, just petition to go to 6A and take care of all the drama. You can play GW, PB, and ElDo. It would be fun.

As you know, I'm in favor of doing that.

MDXPHD

Quote from: PA Dad on December 22, 2015, 03:54:14 pm
Quote from: MDXPHD on December 22, 2015, 03:51:09 pm
PA, just petition to go to 6A and take care of all the drama. You can play GW, PB, and ElDo. It would be fun.

As you know, I'm in favor of doing that.

I think the 5A will be more competitive next season, but the 6A with you guys would be a lot of fun to watch. I'm not sure I have a vote for either scenario because I wouldn't mind either one.

HorseFeathers

Quote from: MDXPHD on December 22, 2015, 03:53:00 pm
Quote from: the voice on December 22, 2015, 03:53:03 pm
I think greenwood moves down if they petition up, they are the smallest 6a

They wouldn't necessarily have to move the smallest though. I'm sure they could move some other school and everyone would be fine with it.

think greenwood would get first choice, or have to agree. Wasn't this an issue when Shiloh petitioned to move up a few years ago? someone had to agree to move down?(Monticello maybe?)

sevenof400

Quote from: HF on December 22, 2015, 05:55:22 pm
think greenwood would get first choice, or have to agree. Wasn't this an issue when Shiloh petitioned to move up a few years ago? someone had to agree to move down?(Monticello maybe?)

I think you are right about Monticello if I recall correctly - and they were perfectly happy to return to 4A because they were a better geographical fit there than in 5A. 

AirWarren

Monticello is very happy where they are. Minus the beat downs they get. But they are no more than an hour away from every team they play in conference.

Oldbadger

Fella's I'm at a loss here.  Many people say there is no difference between public and private.  That there is no advantage for the private schools, yet they are successful.  There are great coaches at the private schools as there are great coaches at the public schools.  Why then, are the private schools for the most part, beating all the public schools and winning all these state championships. is there a difference in the athletes? If so, why?

Intelligentsia

Quote from: PA Dad on December 22, 2015, 01:32:54 pm
Quote from: Intelligentsia on December 22, 2015, 12:49:51 pm
Quote from: Grond on December 22, 2015, 12:39:25 pm
Quote from: MDXPHD on December 22, 2015, 12:17:44 pm
Quote from: AirWarren on December 22, 2015, 12:08:03 pm
Dusty Hannahs was also in that class I believe.

He was.

Quote from: PA Dad on December 22, 2015, 12:08:39 pm
Quote from: MDXPHD on December 22, 2015, 12:04:20 pm
Quote from: purpleswag on December 22, 2015, 11:36:31 am
It's safe to say that in general, there are less kids academically-ineligible in private schools than in public schools. This is caused by the private schools' admission process.

In regards with the actual athletes in private schools, they are usually just flat-out better skilled. Notice I said "skilled" not athletes. Parents that can afford to send their kids to private schools can also afford to spend money on their kids to play on select teams which in turn, improve their skills.

It simply comes down to the haves and have nots.

In 2011, the following players were on PA's roster grades 9-12:

Fredi Knighten- Astate
Hunter Henry- Arkansas
Tyler Colquitt- Arkansas
Will Hefley- Tulsa
Will Hastings- Auburn
Jason King- Purdue

This is just football. No telling how many other d-1 athletes were there. I probably missed a couple of football players too lol. A school of 100 per class....

Actually, you did miss some.  I think L.J Wallace (UCA) was on that team too.

But, 2011 was far and away the best team PA has ever had.  It had, by far, the most D-1 athletes.  So, it's hardly fair to put that team out there as being representative of PA teams year to year.

You're right, this isn't year to year, but almost every year PA has at minimum 2 d-1 athletes. Usually more. I would bet that Hatcher and Bruce are both d-1, and I'm sure there are a couple more that will be as well.

You can say the same for other 5A schools, and smaller, in Arkansas: Forrest City, Warren, Junction City, etc.

I can't recall the last time Batesville had a D-1 player.  We had one walk on at Fayetteville around 6 years ago who earned a scholarship his junior year, I think, and Melton played maybe 10 years ago.  Any other Pioneer posters recall others in the last 10-12 years?

Your coach was quoted in the paper as saying that your tight end this year will probably be D-1.

One of the military services inquired last year, as did an Ivy League school.  I've not heard about any offers, though I hope he plays somewhere.  I think a D2 or NAIA school is more likely.

Yellowcake

Many great points here. Great thread.
The post about parental involvement, working early on for a common goal and so on was spot on. That's a big factor. Throw in what Kelly demands and it's a recipe for a very successful run.

I do disagree somewhat with whether PA would be as successful without Kelly and whether he would have the same success at another school. I think he'd dominate anywhere, and I have no doubt there will be a substantial drop off when he leaves.

Recall the little and impoverished town of Hughes. They made it to the state championship game one year. Never was good before and you never heard from them again. That one year they were coached by Gus Malzahn, who then went on to dominate at a private school (Shiloh) then a public school ((Springdale). Good athletes helped, of course, but there are similarities. Stick Kevin Kelly at a place like NLR and I think it would be Katy bar the door. It would take a year or two for the kids to understand what would be required of them, but they wouldn't have a superior bunch of athletes getting their brains stomped in by Bentonville in the playoffs. In my humble opinion.

HorseFeathers

Quote from: Yellowcake on December 22, 2015, 11:28:54 pm
Many great points here. Great thread.
The post about parental involvement, working early on for a common goal and so on was spot on. That's a big factor. Throw in what Kelly demands and it's a recipe for a very successful run.

I do disagree somewhat with whether PA would be as successful without Kelly and whether he would have the same success at another school. I think he'd dominate anywhere, and I have no doubt there will be a substantial drop off when he leaves.

Recall the little and impoverished town of Hughes. They made it to the state championship game one year. Never was good before and you never heard from them again. That one year they were coached by Gus Malzahn, who then went on to dominate at a private school (Shiloh) then a public school ((Springdale). Good athletes helped, of course, but there are similarities. Stick Kevin Kelly at a place like NLR and I think it would be Katy bar the door. It would take a year or two for the kids to understand what would be required of them, but they wouldn't have a superior bunch of athletes getting their brains stomped in by Bentonville in the playoffs. In my humble opinion.

Hughes made 3 quarterfinals in a row from 02-05, and won a basketball state championship in 2009ish...

the voice

Cake I see the point you're trying to make about NLR, but it's kinda the same, lots of potentially dominate players, I'd like to see it at say Harrison, a once very successful program, has had players over the years , won championships in football, has now in other sports, so it wouldn't be like going to a program that hasn't every won. And they do support their program there.

Go Postal

Quote from: the voice on December 23, 2015, 07:37:41 am
Cake I see the point you're trying to make about NLR, but it's kinda the same, lots of potentially dominate players, I'd like to see it at say Harrison, a once very successful program, has had players over the years , won championships in football, has now in other sports, so it wouldn't be like going to a program that hasn't every won. And they do support their program there.
Harrison State Championships
Baseball: 2008, '15
Boys Basketball: 1967, 1984
Girls Basketball: 2000, '01, '02, '03
Boys Cross Country: 1985, 2007, '13, '15
Girls Cross Country: 1993, '94, '95, '96, '97, '98, '99, 2000, '03, '05
Football: 1999
Boys Golf: 1996, '97, 2008, '12' 15
Girls Golf: 2005, 06
Boys Soccer: 2002, '03, '04, '05, '06, '08
Girls Soccer: 2002, '04, '11, '14
Softball: -----
Boys Tennis: 1989, 1990
Girls Tennis: ----
Boys Track: ----
Girls Track: ----
Volleyball: 200(0?)

I believe that these are all correct.  These do not indicate on how many times that the Goblins/Lady Goblins made it to the semi or final game in each sport.  For instance, last year was the 1st time that the Goblins did not make it to the semis in soccer since 2002, but in the same sport, the Lady Goblins made it to the semis and only lost 3 games in 5A play: two to LRCA in conference and the semi to PA.  PA lost to LRCA in the final.

the voice

Postal I appreciate that , l meant no disrespect to Harrison staff or supporters in that comment either. Just an example of a location that would be a good test for KK , solid program with potential and great support, in my opinion NLR will be successful because of the players and whoever the coach is will always have that used against him

MDXPHD

Quote from: Go Postal on December 23, 2015, 08:31:27 am
Quote from: the voice on December 23, 2015, 07:37:41 am
Cake I see the point you're trying to make about NLR, but it's kinda the same, lots of potentially dominate players, I'd like to see it at say Harrison, a once very successful program, has had players over the years , won championships in football, has now in other sports, so it wouldn't be like going to a program that hasn't every won. And they do support their program there.
Harrison State Championships
Baseball: 2008, '15
Boys Basketball: 1967, 1984
Girls Basketball: 2000, '01, '02, '03
Boys Cross Country: 1985, 2007, '13, '15
Girls Cross Country: 1993, '94, '95, '96, '97, '98, '99, 2000, '03, '05
Football: 1999
Boys Golf: 1996, '97, 2008, '12' 15
Girls Golf: 2005, 06
Boys Soccer: 2002, '03, '04, '05, '06, '08
Girls Soccer: 2002, '04, '11, '14
Softball: -----
Boys Tennis: 1989, 1990
Girls Tennis: ----
Boys Track: ----
Girls Track: ----
Volleyball: 200(0?)

I believe that these are all correct.  These do not indicate on how many times that the Goblins/Lady Goblins made it to the semi or final game in each sport.  For instance, last year was the 1st time that the Goblins did not make it to the semis in soccer since 2002, but in the same sport, the Lady Goblins made it to the semis and only lost 3 games in 5A play: two to LRCA in conference and the semi to PA.  PA lost to LRCA in the final.

Are you sure the girls won cross country in 05? I thought Batesville did when they had their 7 straight.

Go Postal

That is what the banner says in the gym.

Grond

Quote from: the voice on December 23, 2015, 07:37:41 am
Cake I see the point you're trying to make about NLR, but it's kinda the same, lots of potentially dominate players, I'd like to see it at say Harrison, a once very successful program, has had players over the years , won championships in football, has now in other sports, so it wouldn't be like going to a program that hasn't every won. And they do support their program there.

The REAL TEST would be sending Kelley to PARAGOULD. No winning season in over ten years. They have had a few players go on to play college ball.

gameoflife

What is missing in the multiplier debate is the question of what it is that
makes successful programs successful, public or private. Jim Place,
Chaminade-Julienne football coach in Ohio who has coached at both public
and private schools, stated "They don't get it. We win because of discipline"
Quote from: Oldbadger on December 22, 2015, 10:07:32 pm
Fella's I'm at a loss here.  Many people say there is no difference between public and private.  That there is no advantage for the private schools, yet they are successful.  There are great coaches at the private schools as there are great coaches at the public schools.  Why then, are the private schools for the most part, beating all the public schools and winning all these state championships. is there a difference in the athletes? If so, why?
Discipline, Discipline, Discipline.  Some public schools manage to get it, many do not.  Private schools have more of it,, it shows. Parental input, watching what goes on. Not babying the student athletes.  At a private school, mom and dad are too much a problem, kick em out. Public you have to take everybody.

Oldbadger

Quote from: gameoflife on December 23, 2015, 01:31:47 pm
What is missing in the multiplier debate is the question of what it is that
makes successful programs successful, public or private. Jim Place,
Chaminade-Julienne football coach in Ohio who has coached at both public
and private schools, stated “They don’t get it. We win because of discipline”
Quote from: Oldbadger on December 22, 2015, 10:07:32 pm
Fella's I'm at a loss here.  Many people say there is no difference between public and private.  That there is no advantage for the private schools, yet they are successful.  There are great coaches at the private schools as there are great coaches at the public schools.  Why then, are the private schools for the most part, beating all the public schools and winning all these state championships. is there a difference in the athletes? If so, why?
Discipline, Discipline, Discipline.  Some public schools manage to get it, many do not.  Private schools have more of it,, it shows. Parental input, watching what goes on. Not babying the student athletes.  At a private school, mom and dad are too much a problem, kick em out. Public you have to take everybody.
This is what I was getting at.  Private schools attract students who are amenable to discipline.  They are able to weed out those that don't adhere to discipline for whatever reason.  Therefore, in all aspects of the sports program, whatever it is, the athlete not only adheres to discipline but, also disciplines himself.  Public schools, as you say, have to take what they get, and, some can be disciplined, some can't.  This manifests itself in football, for example, when a RB doesn't carry out his fakes, doesn't block well, or a WR, doesn't run his route if he isn't getting the ball.  A disciplined player does these things, an undisciplined one doesn't. 

Maynard G Krebs

Quote from: Grond on December 23, 2015, 12:39:48 pm
Quote from: the voice on December 23, 2015, 07:37:41 am
Cake I see the point you're trying to make about NLR, but it's kinda the same, lots of potentially dominate players, I'd like to see it at say Harrison, a once very successful program, has had players over the years , won championships in football, has now in other sports, so it wouldn't be like going to a program that hasn't every won. And they do support their program there.

The REAL TEST would be sending Kelley to PARAGOULD. No winning season in over ten years. They have had a few players go on to play college ball.

Too few Walcott players being developed.  😉

Grond

Quote from: Maynard G Krebs on December 23, 2015, 05:02:28 pm
Quote from: Grond on December 23, 2015, 12:39:48 pm
Quote from: the voice on December 23, 2015, 07:37:41 am
Cake I see the point you're trying to make about NLR, but it's kinda the same, lots of potentially dominate players, I'd like to see it at say Harrison, a once very successful program, has had players over the years , won championships in football, has now in other sports, so it wouldn't be like going to a program that hasn't every won. And they do support their program there.

The REAL TEST would be sending Kelley to PARAGOULD. No winning season in over ten years. They have had a few players go on to play college ball.

Too few Walcott players being developed.  😉

Outstanding!! That's hilarious....... ;D ;D ;D  [Walcott is a post office about 5 miles west of Paragould, in the GCT school district.]

Grond

Quote from: Oldbadger on December 23, 2015, 04:37:46 pm
Quote from: gameoflife on December 23, 2015, 01:31:47 pm
What is missing in the multiplier debate is the question of what it is that
makes successful programs successful, public or private. Jim Place,
Chaminade-Julienne football coach in Ohio who has coached at both public
and private schools, stated "They don't get it. We win because of discipline"
Quote from: Oldbadger on December 22, 2015, 10:07:32 pm
Fella's I'm at a loss here.  Many people say there is no difference between public and private.  That there is no advantage for the private schools, yet they are successful.  There are great coaches at the private schools as there are great coaches at the public schools.  Why then, are the private schools for the most part, beating all the public schools and winning all these state championships. is there a difference in the athletes? If so, why?
Discipline, Discipline, Discipline.  Some public schools manage to get it, many do not.  Private schools have more of it,, it shows. Parental input, watching what goes on. Not babying the student athletes.  At a private school, mom and dad are too much a problem, kick em out. Public you have to take everybody.
This is what I was getting at.  Private schools attract students who are amenable to discipline.  They are able to weed out those that don't adhere to discipline for whatever reason.  Therefore, in all aspects of the sports program, whatever it is, the athlete not only adheres to discipline but, also disciplines himself.  Public schools, as you say, have to take what they get, and, some can be disciplined, some can't. This manifests itself in football, for example, when a RB doesn't carry out his fakes, doesn't block well, or a WR, doesn't run his route if he isn't getting the ball.  A disciplined player does these things, an undisciplined one doesn't.

Very well said.  ;)

Yellowcake

My bad HF. Malzahn probably made no impact while there.

Maynard G Krebs

Quote from: Yellowcake on December 23, 2015, 08:58:55 pm
My bad HF. Malzahn probably made no impact while there.

It's "Malizan"!!!   
Signed, Houston Dale

HorseFeathers

Quote from: Yellowcake on December 23, 2015, 08:58:55 pm
My bad HF. Malzahn probably made no impact while there.

Na it was a good point...malzahn did build the monster we knew as shiloh christian and started this mess with private schools in the first place

PA Dad

Quote from: HF on December 23, 2015, 09:33:03 pm
Quote from: Yellowcake on December 23, 2015, 08:58:55 pm
My bad HF. Malzahn probably made no impact while there.

Na it was a good point...malzahn did build the monster we knew as shiloh christian and started this mess with private schools in the first place

What mess?

HorseFeathers

Quote from: PA Dad on December 23, 2015, 09:35:39 pm
Quote from: HF on December 23, 2015, 09:33:03 pm
Quote from: Yellowcake on December 23, 2015, 08:58:55 pm
My bad HF. Malzahn probably made no impact while there.

Na it was a good point...malzahn did build the monster we knew as shiloh christian and started this mess with private schools in the first place

What mess?

Just in case you're not joking....the hatred, jealousy etc

PA Dad

Quote from: HF on December 23, 2015, 09:36:28 pm
Quote from: PA Dad on December 23, 2015, 09:35:39 pm
Quote from: HF on December 23, 2015, 09:33:03 pm
Quote from: Yellowcake on December 23, 2015, 08:58:55 pm
My bad HF. Malzahn probably made no impact while there.

Na it was a good point...malzahn did build the monster we knew as shiloh christian and started this mess with private schools in the first place

What mess?

Just in case you're not joking....the hatred, jealousy etc

I was joking.  This whole thread is about "the mess."

the voice

Quote from: PA Dad on December 23, 2015, 09:40:18 pm
Quote from: HF on December 23, 2015, 09:36:28 pm
Quote from: PA Dad on December 23, 2015, 09:35:39 pm
Quote from: HF on December 23, 2015, 09:33:03 pm
Quote from: Yellowcake on December 23, 2015, 08:58:55 pm
My bad HF. Malzahn probably made no impact while there.

Na it was a good point...malzahn did build the monster we knew as shiloh christian and started this mess with private schools in the first place

What mess?

Just in case you're not joking....the hatred, jealousy etc

I was joking.  This whole thread is about "the mess."

😜😜

HorseFeathers

Quote from: PA Dad on December 23, 2015, 09:40:18 pm
Quote from: HF on December 23, 2015, 09:36:28 pm
Quote from: PA Dad on December 23, 2015, 09:35:39 pm
Quote from: HF on December 23, 2015, 09:33:03 pm
Quote from: Yellowcake on December 23, 2015, 08:58:55 pm
My bad HF. Malzahn probably made no impact while there.

Na it was a good point...malzahn did build the monster we knew as shiloh christian and started this mess with private schools in the first place

What mess?

Just in case you're not joking....the hatred, jealousy etc

I was joking.  This whole thread is about "the mess."

I've obviously had to much cold medicine today....

Maynard G Krebs

Quote from: HF on December 23, 2015, 09:55:57 pm
Quote from: PA Dad on December 23, 2015, 09:40:18 pm
Quote from: HF on December 23, 2015, 09:36:28 pm
Quote from: PA Dad on December 23, 2015, 09:35:39 pm
Quote from: HF on December 23, 2015, 09:33:03 pm
Quote from: Yellowcake on December 23, 2015, 08:58:55 pm
My bad HF. Malzahn probably made no impact while there.

Na it was a good point...malzahn did build the monster we knew as shiloh christian and started this mess with private schools in the first place

What mess?

Just in case you're not joking....the hatred, jealousy etc

I was joking.  This whole thread is about "the mess."

I've obviously had to much cold medicine today....

The "NyQuil Syndrome".  😀

Yellowcake

This thread is my nighttime, sniffling, sneezing, wheezing,  I can't get any rest medicine.

gameoflife



The REAL TEST would be sending Kelley to PARAGOULD. No winning season in over ten years. They have had a few players go on to play college ball.
[/quote]

How many of the best coaches at the perrinieal winning programs have done that.  Gone into one of the always losing schools and made a state champion out ot them.  Or even a consistant winner for a long period?  I see lots of good coaches go into programs already winning and continue the winning ways, that would be a culture in the community, a tradition that the community preserves.


PA Dad

I'm in Miami tonight with nothing to do. I reread this whole thread.  I'm amazed with how reasonable the arguments are.  They are factual and devoid of stupid assumptions we see on other threads.  Why can't all of our threads be like this?

Maynard G Krebs

Quote from: PA Dad on February 11, 2016, 08:56:17 pm
I'm in Miami tonight with nothing to do. I reread this whole thread.  I'm amazed with how reasonable the arguments are.  They are factual and devoid of stupid assumptions we see on other threads.  Why can't all of our threads be like this?

Poor guy, Miami can be pretty boring this time of year.

sevenof400

Quote from: Maynard G Krebs on February 15, 2016, 08:27:59 pm
Quote from: PA Dad on February 11, 2016, 08:56:17 pm
I'm in Miami tonight with nothing to do. I reread this whole thread.  I'm amazed with how reasonable the arguments are.  They are factual and devoid of stupid assumptions we see on other threads.  Why can't all of our threads be like this?

Poor guy, Miami can be pretty boring this time of year.

You're assuming FL there Maynard.....could be OH. 

nuttinbuthogs

Quote from: HF on December 23, 2015, 06:47:00 am
Quote from: Yellowcake on December 22, 2015, 11:28:54 pm
Many great points here. Great thread.
The post about parental involvement, working early on for a common goal and so on was spot on. That's a big factor. Throw in what Kelly demands and it's a recipe for a very successful run.

I do disagree somewhat with whether PA would be as successful without Kelly and whether he would have the same success at another school. I think he'd dominate anywhere, and I have no doubt there will be a substantial drop off when he leaves.

Recall the little and impoverished town of Hughes. They made it to the state championship game one year. Never was good before and you never heard from them again. That one year they were coached by Gus Malzahn, who then went on to dominate at a private school (Shiloh) then a public school ((Springdale). Good athletes helped, of course, but there are similarities. Stick Kevin Kelly at a place like NLR and I think it would be Katy bar the door. It would take a year or two for the kids to understand what would be required of them, but they wouldn't have a superior bunch of athletes getting their brains stomped in by Bentonville in the playoffs. In my humble opinion.

Hughes made 3 quarterfinals in a row from 02-05, and won a basketball state championship in 2009ish...
Rereading some of this thread, I think you may be mistaken about Hughes never having been good before Gus, and certainly about not after according to the previous post..

HorseFeathers

Not to mention malzahn was the HC at Hughes for 3 years

GuvHog

Quote from: HF on February 16, 2016, 09:24:22 am
Not to mention malzahn was the HC at Hughes for 3 years

Hughes is part of the West Memphis school district now aren't they??

MDXPHD

Private schools raked in another 6 championships between football, baseball, basketball, soccer, and volleyball. I believe that number is correct anyway. Just wanting to let PA Dad know because I know how much he likes to keep up with the private schools.

PA Dad

Quote from: MDXPHD on May 26, 2016, 09:03:53 am
Private schools raked in another 6 championships between football, baseball, basketball, soccer, and volleyball. I believe that number is correct anyway. Just wanting to let PA Dad know because I know how much he likes to keep up with the private schools.

Thanks for the info.  I guess private schools are just superior!

Oldbadger

Quote from: PA Dad on May 30, 2016, 06:19:02 pm
Thanks for the info.  I guess private schools are just superior!
No, we all know that they have a recruiting coordinator! lol Are we going to hash this out all over again!

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