PA Players at Arkansas Colleges, Compared to Other State Football Champions 2014

[Grond]

The idea went something like this: Despite all the comments about Pulaski Academy [PA] having a talent/recruiting advantage, is there a way to measure it?

My thought was to compare the number of PA players listed at Arkansas colleges, to other State Championship teams. I simply looked at the listed roster for a particular college, and counted the number of players from the listed high schools. This was done in October, 2015, and thus reflects the 2014 State Football Champions.

The rosters I looked at were all D1 and D2 colleges. The list does not include D3 and NAIA (Arkansas has 1 each of these).

Here we go:

Bentonville (7A Champ)  -  8 players

Pine Bluff (6A Champ)  -  13 players

Pulaski Academy (5A Champ)  -  7 players

Wynne (5A runner-up)  -  5 players

Warren (4A Champ)  -  6 players

Charleston (3A Champ)  - 4 players
.........................................................................

A few observations:
1) Note how the numbers seem to line up. Larger classifications have more players in college, smaller schools have less.

2) Pulaski Academy does NOT seem to have an unusual number of college players. (I was actually surprised by this.)

A few remarks:
A) This list does NOT include players from these schools that went to colleges outside of Arkansas. I am assuming that the distribution of players in Arkansas colleges is a fair representation of all players going to college.

B) Some colleges only list the hometown (such as OBU). I gathered info by looking at the individual player profiles presented by the college.

C) Some colleges (SAU) list walk-ons; some don't (Ark. State). I just went with the information provided.

D) Some colleges change their roster throughout the season (such as UAPB). You are certainly free to check current (12/10/15) rosters. Again, this analysis was conducted on roughly 10/5/15.

E) Of the 13 players from Pine Bluff, 7 were at UAPB (local college).

Enjoy......

[EDIT 12/13/15: Added data below]

         5A      5A         4A                6A                7A         3A
College    PA   Wynne   Warren       Pine Bluff     Bentonville   Charleston
U of A        3        0            0                0                 3               1
ASU           1     0              3                0                 1                  0
UCA           1     1              0                1                 1                  0
UAPB         0      1             0                 7               0               0
ATU           0     0              1                3                 1                  1
Harding       0       0              1                 0               1               0
HSU           2     0              0                0                 1                  1
OBU           0     0              1                0                 0                1
SAU           0     1              0                1                 0                  0
UAM           0     2              0                1                 0                  0
_____________________________________________ ________________________
TOTAL        7     5              6              13                 8                  4

Here is all the data. Trying to make more readable. Ugly, but that is all of it. 

[PA Dad]

Interesting analysis.  I'd say Warren must be recruiting- a 4A school with that many college players!

Of course, I'm just kidding.  But it's interesting that the public schools appear to hold their own in terms of players who go on to play college ball.

[the voice]

It's an interesting read and I appreciate the time it took. I'd like to see year in and out. I think like in my post in other thread that most of the public schools may have a year like listed on occasion but not every year.  In other words I doubt Wynne or Warren turns out that number every year , does PA ? As for recruiting, it's by choice and it up to them to go there. If year after year PA turns out numbers similar to 7a schools in Arkansas then I see that as a definite advantage. Is it unfair ? I'm not saying that.  Also what's the average size of the high school PA team number wise ??

[Lionheart88]

Junction City?

[BrianfromCarlisle]

Junction City?

yeah, you definitely left off Junction City.  They have a bunch playing D1 and D2

[MDXPHD]

It's not a reasonable way to evaluate it though. I'm sure PA has players out of state. Just in state colleges doesn't really show us anything, other than the number of in state players who stayed in state of course. I would also be interested to see how many are just d1. PA has at least one d1 player each year, probably multiple.

[AirWarren]

Interesting analysis.  I'd say Warren must be recruiting- a 4A school with that many college players!

Of course, I'm just kidding.  But it's interesting that the public schools appear to hold their own in terms of players who go on to play college ball.

Our recruiting service is the Bradley County Coon Hunters Association.

[Grond]

It's an interesting read and I appreciate the time it took. I'd like to see year in and out. I think like in my post in other thread that most of the public schools may have a year like listed on occasion but not every year.  In other words I doubt Wynne or Warren turns out that number every year , does PA ? As for recruiting, it's by choice and it up to them to go there. If year after year PA turns out numbers similar to 7a schools in Arkansas then I see that as a definite advantage. Is it unfair ? I'm not saying that.  Also what's the average size of the high school PA team number wise ??

You make a good point. I hope to do another analysis in early February, when the Signing Day reports come out. (Each college puts out an article, listing their signees.)

I might make this a "annual" post topic.

[Grizzlyfan]

When you say D2 are you talking about true D2? or FCS (D1AA)?  UCA is FCS.  Most all the other small colleges are DII or DIII.

[PercussionMan]

Also what's the average size of the high school PA team number wise ??

I don't know what the average size is, but their roster for this season shows 80.

[the voice]

The number was what I was after. They do classifications based on enrollment, I know that. Morrilton missed dropping to 4a by two students last cycle. So I know we are one of the smallest in 5a. I was just curious as to the players on the team. I couldn't say when we've had 80 on a team. Probably been decades, lol

[airitout]

The idea went something like this: Despite all the comments about Pulaski Academy [PA] having a talent/recruiting advantage, is there a way to measure it?

My thought was to compare the number of PA players listed at Arkansas colleges, to other State Championship teams. I simply looked at the listed roster for a particular college, and counted the number of players from the listed high schools. This was done in October, 2015, and thus reflects the 2014 State Football Champions.

The rosters I looked at were all D1 and D2 colleges. The list does not include D3 and NAIA (Arkansas has 1 each of these).

Here we go:

Bentonville (7A Champ)  -  8 players

Pine Bluff (6A Champ)  -  13 players

Pulaski Academy (5A Champ)  -  7 players

Wynne (5A runner-up)  -  5 players

Warren (4A Champ)  -  6 players

Charleston (3A Champ)  - 4 players
.........................................................................

A few observations:
1) Note how the numbers seem to line up. Larger classifications have more players in college, smaller schools have less.

2) Pulaski Academy does NOT seem to have an unusual number of college players. (I was actually surprised by this.)

A few remarks:
A) This list does NOT include players from these schools that went to colleges outside of Arkansas. I am assuming that the distribution of players in Arkansas colleges is a fair representation of all players going to college.

B) Some colleges only list the hometown (such as OBU). I gathered info by looking at the individual player profiles presented by the college.

C) Some colleges (SAU) list walk-ons; some don't (Ark. State). I just went with the information provided.

D) Some colleges change their roster throughout the season (such as UAPB). You are certainly free to check current (12/10/15) rosters. Again, this analysis was conducted on roughly 10/5/15.

E) Of the 13 players from Pine Bluff, 7 were at UAPB (local college).

Enjoy......

but all the kids for the public schools live in their district.  what districts do the PA kids, that moved on, live in...ie which school could they have been helping to win?  AND how did they end up playing for PA?

[Red Devil Alum]

The idea went something like this: Despite all the comments about Pulaski Academy [PA] having a talent/recruiting advantage, is there a way to measure it?

My thought was to compare the number of PA players listed at Arkansas colleges, to other State Championship teams. I simply looked at the listed roster for a particular college, and counted the number of players from the listed high schools. This was done in October, 2015, and thus reflects the 2014 State Football Champions.

The rosters I looked at were all D1 and D2 colleges. The list does not include D3 and NAIA (Arkansas has 1 each of these).

Here we go:

Bentonville (7A Champ)  -  8 players

Pine Bluff (6A Champ)  -  13 players

Pulaski Academy (5A Champ)  -  7 players

Wynne (5A runner-up)  -  5 players

Warren (4A Champ)  -  6 players

Charleston (3A Champ)  - 4 players
.........................................................................

A few observations:
1) Note how the numbers seem to line up. Larger classifications have more players in college, smaller schools have less.

2) Pulaski Academy does NOT seem to have an unusual number of college players. (I was actually surprised by this.)

A few remarks:
A) This list does NOT include players from these schools that went to colleges outside of Arkansas. I am assuming that the distribution of players in Arkansas colleges is a fair representation of all players going to college.

B) Some colleges only list the hometown (such as OBU). I gathered info by looking at the individual player profiles presented by the college.

C) Some colleges (SAU) list walk-ons; some don't (Ark. State). I just went with the information provided.

D) Some colleges change their roster throughout the season (such as UAPB). You are certainly free to check current (12/10/15) rosters. Again, this analysis was conducted on roughly 10/5/15.

E) Of the 13 players from Pine Bluff, 7 were at UAPB (local college).

Enjoy......

but all the kids for the public schools live in their district.  what districts do the PA kids, that moved on, live in...ie which school could they have been helping to win?  AND how did they end up playing for PA?

Most are from out of state and they come in on Friday's on Kelley's
Helicopter.

[Lions84]

Good analysis.

[Grond]

When you say D2 are you talking about true D2? or FCS (D1AA)?  UCA is FCS.  Most all the other small colleges are DII or DIII.

The colleges I looked at were as follows:

University of Arkansas (D1 - FBS)
Arkansas State (D1 - FBS)

University of Central Arkansas (D1 - FCS)
University of Arkansas at Pine Bluff (D1 - FCS)

Arkansas Tech (D2)
Harding University (D2)
Henderson State (D2)
Ouachita Baptist (D2)
Southern Arkansas (D2)
University of Arkansas at Monticello (D2)

D1 - FBS colleges have 85 scholarships.
D1 - FCS colleges have 65 scholarships, and they can be split up.
D2 colleges have 36 scholarships, and they can be split up (in other words, coaches can give partial scholarships)
NAIA - colleges have 24 scholarships, and they can be split up.
D3 have no scholarships

Lyons is the only NAIA football college in Arkansas, and their program is only about 3 years old.

Hendrix is D3 (or DIII), and gives no athletic scholarships.

I left Hendrix and Lyons out of my analysis because they are the only colleges of their class in the state.

[PA Dad]

Also what's the average size of the high school PA team number wise ??

I don't know what the average size is, but their roster for this season shows 80.

That number is after the middle school season concluded and the 9th grade players were added to the roster.  Before that happened, I believe there were 58 players on the roster.

[Grond]

It's not a reasonable way to evaluate it though. I'm sure PA has players out of state. Just in state colleges doesn't really show us anything, other than the number of in state players who stayed in state of course. I would also be interested to see how many are just d1. PA has at least one d1 player each year, probably multiple.

The best analysis would be a review of ALL the high school football players from Arkansas that went to ANY college to play football. Good luck with that. 

PA and Bentonville have the same number of D1 players: 5.

Pine Bluff has the most D1 players: 8.

When I originally did this analysis, I thought that, if I saw an unusual number of PA players overall, it would suggest an advantage. Frankly, I was surprised at the LACK of PA players at D2 colleges (only 2).

Keep in mind that I am essentially looking at all the players from these colleges that made it to college football over the past 4 or 5 years, since I am looking at ALL grade classifications (Sr., Jr., So., Fr., & redshirts).

[MDXPHD]

It's not a reasonable way to evaluate it though. I'm sure PA has players out of state. Just in state colleges doesn't really show us anything, other than the number of in state players who stayed in state of course. I would also be interested to see how many are just d1. PA has at least one d1 player each year, probably multiple.

The best analysis would be a review of ALL the high school football players from Arkansas that went to ANY college to play football. Good luck with that. 

PA and Bentonville have the same number of D1 players: 5.

Pine Bluff has the most D1 players: 8.

When I originally did this analysis, I thought that, if I saw an unusual number of PA players overall, it would suggest an advantage. Frankly, I was surprised at the LACK of PA players at D2 colleges (only 2).

Keep in mind that I am essentially looking at all the players from these colleges that made it to college football over the past 4 or 5 years, since I am looking at ALL grade classifications (Sr., Jr., So., Fr., & redshirts).

The fact that PA and Bentonville have the same amount of d-1 players is strange, considering PA's enrollment numbers. I'm also certain PA has a couple of out of state players that are d-1. This is normal for them though, much as it was for Shiloh during their glory days. For a small, private school to have several d-1 players, it raises some eyebrows. Why do you think Shiloh has been struggling lately?

[rpr]

Your numbers do not show D1 athletes, they show athletes playing D1 football. Academically qualifying for a D1 scholarship prevents quite a few D1 athletes from playing D1 football. Impossible to quantify but I am sure that PA would be far outnumbered by some schools if not for eligibility.

[Grond]

By the way, just checked my numbers at the University of Arkansas website (12/11/15):

PA - 2 players

Bentonville - 3 players

Fayetteville HS - 7 players

Forrest City - 2 players

As far as Shiloh Christian, I don't know; haven't seen them play, not a long-time follower of central Arkansas high school football.

I don't follow your focus on "out of state" players. PA and Wynne had D1 QB's from the 2014 season that went out of state. Fort Smith, El Dorado, and West Memphis have out of state players.

Are you saying that PA has more out of state players than the other high schools listed above?

[Grond]

Your numbers do not show D1 athletes, they show athletes playing D1 football. Academically qualifying for a D1 scholarship prevents quite a few D1 athletes from playing D1 football. Impossible to quantify but I am sure that PA would be far outnumbered by some schools if not for eligibility.

I'm not sure I agree with you, but YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT.

[STUNNA]

by numbers on average I would say that warren probably has the highest percentage of kids that go on to play college football per the number of total number of players on the team.

[AirWarren]

by numbers on average I would say that warren probably has the highest percentage of kids that go on to play college football per the number of total number of players on the team.

As well as town size haha

[PA Dad]

by numbers on average I would say that warren probably has the highest percentage of kids that go on to play college football per the number of total number of players on the team.

As well as town size haha

If they're that successful, they have to be cheating!

[AirWarren]

by numbers on average I would say that warren probably has the highest percentage of kids that go on to play college football per the number of total number of players on the team.

As well as town size haha

If they're that successful, they have to be cheating!

I credit the Warren Post office for the overflowing amount of jobs.

[Lionheart88]

When you say D2 are you talking about true D2? or FCS (D1AA)?  UCA is FCS.  Most all the other small colleges are DII or DIII.

The colleges I looked at were as follows:

University of Arkansas (D1 - FBS)
Arkansas State (D1 - FBS)

University of Central Arkansas (D1 - FCS)
University of Arkansas at Pine Bluff (D1 - FCS)

Arkansas Tech (D2)
Harding University (D2)
Henderson State (D2)
Ouachita Baptist (D2)
Southern Arkansas (D2)
University of Arkansas at Monticello (D2)

D1 - FBS colleges have 85 scholarships.
D1 - FCS colleges have 65 scholarships, and they can be split up.
D2 colleges have 36 scholarships, and they can be split up (in other words, coaches can give partial scholarships)
NAIA - colleges have 24 scholarships, and they can be split up.
D3 have no scholarships

Lyons is the only NAIA football college in Arkansas, and their program is only about 3 years old.

Hendrix is D3 (or DIII), and gives no athletic scholarships.

I left Hendrix and Lyons out of my analysis because they are the only colleges of their class in the state.

Why does it matter that Lyon and Hendrix are the only ones of their classification in the state?  Would you leave off Fayetteville if ASU was FCS?

[Red Devil Alum]

By the way, just checked my numbers at the University of Arkansas website (12/11/15):

PA - 2 players

Bentonville - 3 players

Fayetteville HS - 7 players

Forrest City - 2 players

As far as Shiloh Christian, I don't know; haven't seen them play, not a long-time follower of central Arkansas high school football.

I don't follow your focus on "out of state" players. PA and Wynne had D1 QB's from the 2014 season that went out of state. Fort Smith, El Dorado, and West Memphis have out of state players.

Are you saying that PA has more out of state players than the other high schools listed above?

You also have to consider that every single player at PA is eligible to go play DI sports. Hope has a kid that looked great but I was told grades are making him go to junior college.  I'm sure at F-Ville and B-Ville they are overwhelmingly eligible too.  That's not true everywhere, and could hold down college players.  Also, most PA kids are going to go to college anyway and can afford to do so, whereas a kid from [fill in the blank] might not be able to afford to go to school even if on scholarship. 

Sad but true.

[AirWarren]

By the way, just checked my numbers at the University of Arkansas website (12/11/15):

PA - 2 players

Bentonville - 3 players

Fayetteville HS - 7 players

Forrest City - 2 players

As far as Shiloh Christian, I don't know; haven't seen them play, not a long-time follower of central Arkansas high school football.

I don't follow your focus on "out of state" players. PA and Wynne had D1 QB's from the 2014 season that went out of state. Fort Smith, El Dorado, and West Memphis have out of state players.

Are you saying that PA has more out of state players than the other high schools listed above?

You also have to consider that every single player at PA is eligible to go play DI sports. Hope has a kid that looked great but I was told grades are making him go to junior college.  I'm sure at F-Ville and B-Ville they are overwhelmingly eligible too.  That's not true everywhere, and could hold down college players.  Also, most PA kids are going to go to college anyway and can afford to do so, whereas a kid from [fill in the blank] might not be able to afford to go to school even if on scholarship. 

Sad but true.

I hope this is a sarcastic post.

[Maynard G Krebs]

Look for the key word🤔

[Red Devil Alum]

By the way, just checked my numbers at the University of Arkansas website (12/11/15):

PA - 2 players

Bentonville - 3 players

Fayetteville HS - 7 players

Forrest City - 2 players

As far as Shiloh Christian, I don't know; haven't seen them play, not a long-time follower of central Arkansas high school football.

I don't follow your focus on "out of state" players. PA and Wynne had D1 QB's from the 2014 season that went out of state. Fort Smith, El Dorado, and West Memphis have out of state players.

Are you saying that PA has more out of state players than the other high schools listed above?

You also have to consider that every single player at PA is eligible to go play DI sports. Hope has a kid that looked great but I was told grades are making him go to junior college.  I'm sure at F-Ville and B-Ville they are overwhelmingly eligible too.  That's not true everywhere, and could hold down college players.  Also, most PA kids are going to go to college anyway and can afford to do so, whereas a kid from [fill in the blank] might not be able to afford to go to school even if on scholarship. 

Sad but true.

I hope this is a sarcastic post.

Do you think the percentage of kids from PA and Pine Bluff that go to college is the same?  The last kid that was a great athlete that couldn't met the eligibility requirements left his sophomore year (and ended up in a power 5 conference)

[Eddie Goodson]

It's not a reasonable way to evaluate it though. I'm sure PA has players out of state. Just in state colleges doesn't really show us anything, other than the number of in state players who stayed in state of course. I would also be interested to see how many are just d1. PA has at least one d1 player each year, probably multiple.

The best analysis would be a review of ALL the high school football players from Arkansas that went to ANY college to play football. Good luck with that. 

PA and Bentonville have the same number of D1 players: 5.

Pine Bluff has the most D1 players: 8.

When I originally did this analysis, I thought that, if I saw an unusual number of PA players overall, it would suggest an advantage. Frankly, I was surprised at the LACK of PA players at D2 colleges (only 2).

Keep in mind that I am essentially looking at all the players from these colleges that made it to college football over the past 4 or 5 years, since I am looking at ALL grade classifications (Sr., Jr., So., Fr., & redshirts).

Excellent job destroying the myth that PA has far athletically superior talent than their competition. They don't. They DO have superior COACHED talent than most of their competition. Their kids simply execute better than most teams they play.

[Eddie Goodson]

By the way, just checked my numbers at the University of Arkansas website (12/11/15):

PA - 2 players

Bentonville - 3 players

Fayetteville HS - 7 players

Forrest City - 2 players

As far as Shiloh Christian, I don't know; haven't seen them play, not a long-time follower of central Arkansas high school football.

I don't follow your focus on "out of state" players. PA and Wynne had D1 QB's from the 2014 season that went out of state. Fort Smith, El Dorado, and West Memphis have out of state players.

Are you saying that PA has more out of state players than the other high schools listed above?

You also have to consider that every single player at PA is eligible to go play DI sports. Hope has a kid that looked great but I was told grades are making him go to junior college.  I'm sure at F-Ville and B-Ville they are overwhelmingly eligible too.  That's not true everywhere, and could hold down college players.  Also, most PA kids are going to go to college anyway and can afford to do so, whereas a kid from [fill in the blank] might not be able to afford to go to school even if on scholarship. 

Sad but true.

No it's not. With all the scholarship money, lottery money, pell grants, and student loans available, any kid in this this state that APPLIES themselves can go to college regardless of where they live. The application part is the problem.

[Lionheart88]

It's not a reasonable way to evaluate it though. I'm sure PA has players out of state. Just in state colleges doesn't really show us anything, other than the number of in state players who stayed in state of course. I would also be interested to see how many are just d1. PA has at least one d1 player each year, probably multiple.

The best analysis would be a review of ALL the high school football players from Arkansas that went to ANY college to play football. Good luck with that. 

PA and Bentonville have the same number of D1 players: 5.

Pine Bluff has the most D1 players: 8.

When I originally did this analysis, I thought that, if I saw an unusual number of PA players overall, it would suggest an advantage. Frankly, I was surprised at the LACK of PA players at D2 colleges (only 2).

Keep in mind that I am essentially looking at all the players from these colleges that made it to college football over the past 4 or 5 years, since I am looking at ALL grade classifications (Sr., Jr., So., Fr., & redshirts).

Excellent job destroying the myth that PA has far athletically superior talent than their competition. They don't. They DO have superior COACHED talent than most of their competition. Their kids simply execute better than most teams they play.

Comparing them to the state champions in other divisions isn't comparing them to their competition.  Let's see the same numbers run for the rest of the 5A Central, or even the rest of 5A generally.  I'd bet PA is in the top 3-4.

[AirWarren]

By the way, just checked my numbers at the University of Arkansas website (12/11/15):

PA - 2 players

Bentonville - 3 players

Fayetteville HS - 7 players

Forrest City - 2 players

As far as Shiloh Christian, I don't know; haven't seen them play, not a long-time follower of central Arkansas high school football.

I don't follow your focus on "out of state" players. PA and Wynne had D1 QB's from the 2014 season that went out of state. Fort Smith, El Dorado, and West Memphis have out of state players.

Are you saying that PA has more out of state players than the other high schools listed above?

You also have to consider that every single player at PA is eligible to go play DI sports. Hope has a kid that looked great but I was told grades are making him go to junior college.  I'm sure at F-Ville and B-Ville they are overwhelmingly eligible too.  That's not true everywhere, and could hold down college players.  Also, most PA kids are going to go to college anyway and can afford to do so, whereas a kid from [fill in the blank] might not be able to afford to go to school even if on scholarship. 

Sad but true.

No it's not. With all the scholarship money, lottery money, pell grants, and student loans available, any kid in this this state that APPLIES themselves can go to college regardless of where they live. The application part is the problem.

His head is too far in the clouds to realize this.

[PA Dad]

It's not a reasonable way to evaluate it though. I'm sure PA has players out of state. Just in state colleges doesn't really show us anything, other than the number of in state players who stayed in state of course. I would also be interested to see how many are just d1. PA has at least one d1 player each year, probably multiple.

The best analysis would be a review of ALL the high school football players from Arkansas that went to ANY college to play football. Good luck with that. 

PA and Bentonville have the same number of D1 players: 5.

Pine Bluff has the most D1 players: 8.

When I originally did this analysis, I thought that, if I saw an unusual number of PA players overall, it would suggest an advantage. Frankly, I was surprised at the LACK of PA players at D2 colleges (only 2).

Keep in mind that I am essentially looking at all the players from these colleges that made it to college football over the past 4 or 5 years, since I am looking at ALL grade classifications (Sr., Jr., So., Fr., & redshirts).

Excellent job destroying the myth that PA has far athletically superior talent than their competition. They don't. They DO have superior COACHED talent than most of their competition. Their kids simply execute better than most teams they play.

Comparing them to the state champions in other divisions isn't comparing them to their competition.  Let's see the same numbers run for the rest of the 5A Central, or even the rest of 5A generally.  I'd bet PA is in the top 3-4.

You want to compare PA with Fair or Mills?  That's not apples to apples.  Comparing state champs is as close as you can get to a fair comparison.

[the voice]

Seriously? You think most other teams have D1 talent in 5a? I don't think so. Much less three or more in one class. Others that win championships, yes they may have an exceptional year , it's teams that have it year after year. Those are the favorites no doubt. I don't believe there is even 32 total D1 players in 5a in the state , that would average one per team. I could be wrong but I'd like to see proof. I think those numbers will be hard to prove. Secondly if you have a team with 2 or three on a team you're more than likely going to win state. Regardless of class. That means that over 1/4 of the players on the field are playing D1 football the next year. If you have 3, cmon guys anyone who doesn't see that as an advantage, I don't know what you'd call an advantage.  It would take an awesome pool of talent to produce those numbers, either the largest classifications or the private schools where they sign up to go there.

[the voice]

I'm not accusing PA or any private school of doing anything illegal. I'm simply saying it's not accurate to think they don't have an advantage of talent if they have 2-3 D1 players each year.

[Lionheart88]

It's not a reasonable way to evaluate it though. I'm sure PA has players out of state. Just in state colleges doesn't really show us anything, other than the number of in state players who stayed in state of course. I would also be interested to see how many are just d1. PA has at least one d1 player each year, probably multiple.

The best analysis would be a review of ALL the high school football players from Arkansas that went to ANY college to play football. Good luck with that. 

PA and Bentonville have the same number of D1 players: 5.

Pine Bluff has the most D1 players: 8.

When I originally did this analysis, I thought that, if I saw an unusual number of PA players overall, it would suggest an advantage. Frankly, I was surprised at the LACK of PA players at D2 colleges (only 2).

Keep in mind that I am essentially looking at all the players from these colleges that made it to college football over the past 4 or 5 years, since I am looking at ALL grade classifications (Sr., Jr., So., Fr., & redshirts).

Excellent job destroying the myth that PA has far athletically superior talent than their competition. They don't. They DO have superior COACHED talent than most of their competition. Their kids simply execute better than most teams they play.

Comparing them to the state champions in other divisions isn't comparing them to their competition.  Let's see the same numbers run for the rest of the 5A Central, or even the rest of 5A generally.  I'd bet PA is in the top 3-4.

You want to compare PA with Fair or Mills?  That's not apples to apples.  Comparing state champs is as close as you can get to a fair comparison.

Note the bolded parts of what Eddie said that I was responding to.  PA does not compete against Warren, Pine Bluff, or Bentonville.  If you want to compare them to their competition, to the schools they play for conference and state titles, you need to compare them to the 5A Central and 5A as a whole.  These numbers do nothing to prove or disprove the "myth" that PA has better talent than the teams they compete against.  It just shows that state champions across classifications are on a sort of rough level.

[the voice]

Note the bolded parts of what Eddie said that I was responding to.  PA does not compete against Warren, Pine Bluff, or Bentonville.  If you want to compare them to their competition, to the schools they play for conference and state titles, you need to compare them to the 5A Central and 5A as a whole.  These numbers do nothing to prove or disprove the "myth" that PA has better talent than the teams they compete against.  It just shows that state champions across classifications are on a sort of rough level.
[/quote]

Absolutely I agree !! Coaching will play a bigger role when talent is similar!! I know great coaches who have went to historically struggling programs and not had a great impact. Regardless of what people say , it's mostly the jimmys and the joes , not the X's and O's !!
You'll never find a horse as determined as a mule but it ain't winning the Kentucky derby!

[Lionheart88]

Note the bolded parts of what Eddie said that I was responding to.  PA does not compete against Warren, Pine Bluff, or Bentonville.  If you want to compare them to their competition, to the schools they play for conference and state titles, you need to compare them to the 5A Central and 5A as a whole.  These numbers do nothing to prove or disprove the "myth" that PA has better talent than the teams they compete against.  It just shows that state champions across classifications are on a sort of rough level.

Absolutely I agree !! Coaching will play a bigger role when talent is similar!! I know great coaches who have went to historically struggling programs and not had a great impact. Regardless of what people say , it's mostly the jimmys and the joes , not the X's and O's !!
You'll never find a horse as determined as a mule but it ain't winning the Kentucky derby!
[/quote]
Now that's funny right there.

[Intelligentsia]

By the way, just checked my numbers at the University of Arkansas website (12/11/15):

PA - 2 players

Bentonville - 3 players

Fayetteville HS - 7 players

Forrest City - 2 players

As far as Shiloh Christian, I don't know; haven't seen them play, not a long-time follower of central Arkansas high school football.

I don't follow your focus on "out of state" players. PA and Wynne had D1 QB's from the 2014 season that went out of state. Fort Smith, El Dorado, and West Memphis have out of state players.

Are you saying that PA has more out of state players than the other high schools listed above?

You also have to consider that every single player at PA is eligible to go play DI sports. Hope has a kid that looked great but I was told grades are making him go to junior college.  I'm sure at F-Ville and B-Ville they are overwhelmingly eligible too.  That's not true everywhere, and could hold down college players.  Also, most PA kids are going to go to college anyway and can afford to do so, whereas a kid from [fill in the blank] might not be able to afford to go to school even if on scholarship. 

Sad but true.

No it's not. With all the scholarship money, lottery money, pell grants, and student loans available, any kid in this this state that APPLIES themselves can go to college regardless of where they live. The application part is the problem.
[/quote

Very much an oversimplification. Do you discount the impact of the culture surrounding poverty or the impact of learning disabilities on college attendance. 

[Red Devil Alum]

By the way, just checked my numbers at the University of Arkansas website (12/11/15):

PA - 2 players

Bentonville - 3 players

Fayetteville HS - 7 players

Forrest City - 2 players

As far as Shiloh Christian, I don't know; haven't seen them play, not a long-time follower of central Arkansas high school football.

I don't follow your focus on "out of state" players. PA and Wynne had D1 QB's from the 2014 season that went out of state. Fort Smith, El Dorado, and West Memphis have out of state players.

Are you saying that PA has more out of state players than the other high schools listed above?

You also have to consider that every single player at PA is eligible to go play DI sports. Hope has a kid that looked great but I was told grades are making him go to junior college.  I'm sure at F-Ville and B-Ville they are overwhelmingly eligible too.  That's not true everywhere, and could hold down college players.  Also, most PA kids are going to go to college anyway and can afford to do so, whereas a kid from [fill in the blank] might not be able to afford to go to school even if on scholarship. 

Sad but true.

No it's not. With all the scholarship money, lottery money, pell grants, and student loans available, any kid in this this state that APPLIES themselves can go to college regardless of where they live. The application part is the problem.

His head is too far in the clouds to realize this.

Are you seriously saying that a student at PA doesn't have an advantage in being able to attend college?

Explain this, more than 99% of PA graduates go to college. In Arkansas as a whole, the rate is 64.7%. In many towns in the south and delta he rate is far less than 50%. If money doesn't explain it as you say, then tell me why 1/3 to 1/2 fewer students go to college.

You always make the point that PA has an advantage because it is "rich". When I acknowledge that fact, you argue.

You would argue if I said the sky was blue over PA today.

[PA Dad]

Seriously? You think most other teams have D1 talent in 5a? I don't think so. Much less three or more in one class. Others that win championships, yes they may have an exceptional year , it's teams that have it year after year. Those are the favorites no doubt. I don't believe there is even 32 total D1 players in 5a in the state , that would average one per team. I could be wrong but I'd like to see proof. I think those numbers will be hard to prove. Secondly if you have a team with 2 or three on a team you're more than likely going to win state. Regardless of class. That means that over 1/4 of the players on the field are playing D1 football the next year. If you have 3, cmon guys anyone who doesn't see that as an advantage, I don't know what you'd call an advantage.  It would take an awesome pool of talent to produce those numbers, either the largest classifications or the private schools where they sign up to go there.

But that's not the issue.  The issue is whether PA has more talent than other teams similarly situated.  PA certainly has more talent than Fair or Clarksville.  But Fayetteville certainly has more talent than Mountain Home.  So, should Fayetteville be somehow punished because of that?

There's always going to be a disparity in talent.  But folks are not complaining about Fayetteville's talent.  The complaining is about PA.  Why is that?  Just because PA is private and Fayetteville is public?

[Grond]

Seriously? You think most other teams have D1 talent in 5a? I don't think so. Much less three or more in one class. Others that win championships, yes they may have an exceptional year , it's teams that have it year after year. Those are the favorites no doubt. I don't believe there is even 32 total D1 players in 5a in the state , that would average one per team. I could be wrong but I'd like to see proof. I think those numbers will be hard to prove. Secondly if you have a team with 2 or three on a team you're more than likely going to win state. Regardless of class. That means that over 1/4 of the players on the field are playing D1 football the next year. If you have 3, cmon guys anyone who doesn't see that as an advantage, I don't know what you'd call an advantage.  It would take an awesome pool of talent to produce those numbers, either the largest classifications or the private schools where they sign up to go there.

AGAIN, THE DATA IS NOT FOR ONE CLASS!

The PA players at U of A are a Junior and a redshirt freshman (academic sophomore). The roster from early October listed a third player; now there are only two PA players at UofA. Just as many as Forrest City........

[the voice]

My statement was in response to the statement made they are the same. IMO if they indeed do have 2-3 D1 players every year they are far more talented than most 5a schools. As I said before, it's not illegal.  Not cheating or anything wrong. Simply saying they get better players year in and out than most others in 5a, example 2014 Wynne team took all those seniors to get there. As one poster said PA doesn't rebuild they reload. Morrilton for example won it all in 2013 , rebuilt in 14 and made playoffs this year. It takes time for most to get back because of the talent pool.
As for Fayetteville, they are a 7a school that's started keeping the talent , some of which used to go elsewhere. In 5a if you have 2 D1 players on a team you will most likely be in the hunt for the title of not win it. PA is a perfect example of this , it's not a slight or knock , just a fact.  And it's fair to say they don't have to wait and rebuild as they usually have more potential D1 players move in.  Again not accusing them of any wrong , just stating what it appears. This years championship team will not drain the talent from the team , they'll be back. Look at the margins of victory, there's no way one can say that every team they played in the playoffs was that bad , obviously they weren't.

Someone said it's not a good match up to play Fayetteville, well on average Fayetteville has 4-7 D1 players the last few years. PA has say 2-4 , most 5a schools have none , it would be similar match up as average 5a playing PA , PA would have talent but Fayetteville would have more , just saying as example, most teams PA played in 5a were out matched.

[Grond]

By the way, just checked my numbers at the University of Arkansas website (12/11/15):

PA - 2 players

Bentonville - 3 players

Fayetteville HS - 7 players

Forrest City - 2 players

As far as Shiloh Christian, I don't know; haven't seen them play, not a long-time follower of central Arkansas high school football.

I don't follow your focus on "out of state" players. PA and Wynne had D1 QB's from the 2014 season that went out of state. Fort Smith, El Dorado, and West Memphis have out of state players.

Are you saying that PA has more out of state players than the other high schools listed above?

You also have to consider that every single player at PA is eligible to go play DI sports. Hope has a kid that looked great but I was told grades are making him go to junior college.  I'm sure at F-Ville and B-Ville they are overwhelmingly eligible too.  That's not true everywhere, and could hold down college players.  Also, most PA kids are going to go to college anyway and can afford to do so, whereas a kid from [fill in the blank] might not be able to afford to go to school even if on scholarship. 

Sad but true.

No it's not. With all the scholarship money, lottery money, pell grants, and student loans available, any kid in this this state that APPLIES themselves can go to college regardless of where they live. The application part is the problem.

His head is too far in the clouds to realize this.

Are you seriously saying that a student at PA doesn't have an advantage in being able to attend college?

Explain this, more than 99% of PA graduates go to college. In Arkansas as a whole, the rate is 64.7%. In many towns in the south and delta he rate is far less than 50%. If money doesn't explain it as you say, then tell me why 1/3 to 1/2 fewer students go to college.

You always make the point that PA has an advantage because it is "rich". When I acknowledge that fact, you argue.

You would argue if I said the sky was blue over PA today.

BINGO!!!!!  EUREKA!!!!!! You have nailed it! 

Coach Kelley figured out he has a school WITH SMART athletes (overall). So, he (and his staff) implemented SOPHISTICATED play systems on offense and defense to take advantage of his player's assets.

Got a big o-line? You run. Got a good QB and fast receivers? You pass. You got smart kids? You SCHEME.

[the voice]

Seriously? You think most other teams have D1 talent in 5a? I don't think so. Much less three or more in one class. Others that win championships, yes they may have an exceptional year , it's teams that have it year after year. Those are the favorites no doubt. I don't believe there is even 32 total D1 players in 5a in the state , that would average one per team. I could be wrong but I'd like to see proof. I think those numbers will be hard to prove. Secondly if you have a team with 2 or three on a team you're more than likely going to win state. Regardless of class. That means that over 1/4 of the players on the field are playing D1 football the next year. If you have 3, cmon guys anyone who doesn't see that as an advantage, I don't know what you'd call an advantage.  It would take an awesome pool of talent to produce those numbers, either the largest classifications or the private schools where they sign up to go there.

AGAIN, THE DATA IS NOT FOR ONE CLASS!

The PA players at U of A are a Junior and a redshirt freshman (academic sophomore). The roster from early October listed a third player; now there are only two PA players at UofA. Just as many as Forrest City........

Did they play in the same team? Were they not ever on the field together?
Forest City ? Really, and what do you hear from them ? Do you really think they have that often ? They don't.

[PA Dad]

My statement was in response to the statement made they are the same. IMO if they indeed do have 2-3 D1 players every year they are far more talented than most 5a schools. As I said before, it's not illegal.  Not cheating or anything wrong. Simply saying they get better players year in and out than most others in 5a, example 2014 Wynne team took all those seniors to get there. As one poster said PA doesn't rebuild they reload. Morrilton for example won it all in 2013 , rebuilt in 14 and made playoffs this year. It takes time for most to get back because of the talent pool.
As for Fayetteville, they are a 7a school that's started keeping the talent , some of which used to go elsewhere. In 5a if you have 2 D1 players on a team you will most likely be in the hunt for the title of not win it. PA is a perfect example of this , it's not a slight or knock , just a fact.  And it's fair to say they don't have to wait and rebuild as they usually have more potential D1 players move in.  Again not accusing them of any wrong , just stating what it appears. This years championship team will not drain the talent from the team , they'll be back. Look at the margins of victory, there's no way one can say that every team they played in the playoffs was that bad , obviously they weren't.

Someone said it's not a good match up to play Fayetteville, well on average Fayetteville has 4-7 D1 players the last few years. PA has say 2-4 , most 5a schools have none , it would be similar match up as average 5a playing PA , PA would have talent but Fayetteville would have more , just saying as example, most teams PA played in 5a were out matched.

I understand your argument.  And, I agree that PA has more talent than most 5A teams.

But, is that talent natural or is it developed by good coaching?

For example, I'd  bet that if you polled 5A coaches, most would say that LRC had more raw talent than any team in 5A this year.  If that's correct, why did PA mercy rule LRC.

And, if you look at last year, I'd say Wynne had more raw talent than PA.

I think the real argument is whether PA has more raw talent or just uses the talent it has better than other teams.

[the voice]

I'm not accusing any private school of any wrong. Just in the case of PA there's no doubt they have had at least recently more D1 players on the field than most other 5a schools. Hence they beat the brakes off them. Jimmys and Joes!!
When you have more talent you are going to win more.

I'm sorry if some of read this as me being negative about PA , I'm simply stating what appears to be obvious,  if it were a public school , it may have a three year run then most likely a drop off , they reload and surge on.

[Grond]

           5A      5A         4A                6A                7A         3A
College    PA   Wynne   Warren       Pine Bluff     Bentonville   Charleston
U of A        3        0            0                0                 3               1
ASU           1     0              3                0                 1                  0
UCA           1     1              0                1                 1                  0
UAPB         0      1             0                 7               0               0
ATU           0     0              1                3                 1                  1
Harding       0       0              1                 0               1               0
HSU           2     0              0                0                 1                  1
OBU           0     0              1                0                 0                1
SAU           0     1              0                1                 0                  0
UAM           0     2              0                1                 0                  0
_____________________________________________________________________
TOTAL        7     5              6              13                 8                  4

Here is all the data. Trying to make more readable. Ugly, but that is all of it.