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Formations

Started by ARSoccer25, March 16, 2018, 09:48:48 am

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ARSoccer25

Just curious. What formation does your high school team run? Do you have a preference?
Personally, I like the 4-2-3-1, because of the numbers it gives you in the midfield.

pantherdad

I believe both our high school team and our AR United club team are running a 4-3-3

chandler

Our Girls run a 4-2-3-1 with a diamond shaped defense. Our boys ran a 4-2-3-1 but recently started using a 5-4-1. They often push up their FBs to essentially shift into a 3-4-3. 

ARSoccer25

Quote from: chandler on March 16, 2018, 01:10:22 pm
Our Girls run a 4-2-3-1 with a diamond shaped defense. Our boys ran a 4-2-3-1 but recently started using a 5-4-1. They often push up their FBs to essentially shift into a 3-4-3. 

Interesting.We thought about trying the 5-4-1.  What do you like about the formation?

VHSCoach2

We've run a 4-3-3 this season.  Inside of that, the 3 in the midfield either set up as a "12" or a "21", meaning 1 attacking mid and 2 defense mids (12), or 2 attacking mids and 1 defensive mid (21).

WillC

We adjust based on personnel and opponent. Typically a 3-1-4-2, 4-4-2, or 4-5-1

Sir Alex

Saw a team the other night play a 9-1. 

beach bum


redsport27

We run a 4-4-2. The defense stays tight in the back. The mid does well going box to box. With our two up on offense, the coach gives them freedom to control how they are positioned and to control the runs they make. Sometimes one forward will drop back and play a 10 and support the other midfielders.

Buck183

Quote from: Sir Alex on March 16, 2018, 07:21:35 pm
Saw a team the other night play a 9-1.

Mountain Home?   😳

futbolsoccer

depends on skills of the players and philosophy of the coach.
personally play 4-5-1 with two attacking mids, turning in a 4-3-3 ones we posses the ball, and send a wing back (defensive wing) to overlap depending on which side the ball is play.
also my club team likes 3-2-3-2 and rarely play 4-4-2

i believe our HS team play 4-5-1 but is more static.

good topic btw.

MDXPHD

Quote from: Sir Alex on March 16, 2018, 07:21:35 pm
Saw a team the other night play a 9-1.

Shiloh girls? That was a few years ago man!

Sir Alex

Quote from: MDXPHD on March 16, 2018, 10:38:59 pm
Shiloh girls? That was a few years ago man!

Has it been that long Since the bus was parked? 

bahamamama

Not trying to start an argument just asking honestly. As someone who has played and followed soccer for many years I definitely understand the game and tactics. I'm a former collegiate basketball athlete and coach and I've never understood the mentality of it's bad coaching and perhaps poor gamesmanship if someone "parks the bus" against a much better and more talented team. In basketball my teams have won many games against far superior and more athletic teams by walking the ball up the floor and playing a sagging zone defense, etc...I know that Harrison had beaten Shiloh pretty badly in their two previous meetings that year so I'm assuming Shiloh tried to play them straight up and that didn't quite work out for them. IMHO it's about winning a state championship and I doubt their rings have a bus on the side of them. Kudos to their coach for changing tactics and beating a better team.

pantherdad

Well said! It's called good tactics

WillC

I've never minded parking the bus. Sure, it's not super exciting to watch, but their job is to win games. The only time I have a problem with it is if I feel like they have the potential to compete better with a different tactic, but I'm not the coach and that's not my job.

MDXPHD

Quote from: bahamamama on March 17, 2018, 03:56:05 pm
Not trying to start an argument just asking honestly. As someone who has played and followed soccer for many years I definitely understand the game and tactics. I'm a former collegiate basketball athlete and coach and I've never understood the mentality of it's bad coaching and perhaps poor gamesmanship if someone "parks the bus" against a much better and more talented team. In basketball my teams have won many games against far superior and more athletic teams by walking the ball up the floor and playing a sagging zone defense, etc...I know that Harrison had beaten Shiloh pretty badly in their two previous meetings that year so I'm assuming Shiloh tried to play them straight up and that didn't quite work out for them. IMHO it's about winning a state championship and I doubt their rings have a bus on the side of them. Kudos to their coach for changing tactics and beating a better team.

I think they parked the bus on more than one occasion that year. And it worked out for them in the finals after Harrison hit the post 87 times.

It's not bad coaching per say, but it's debatable. Mt. Home has done it so much in the past few years that it's become how they actually play. It's annoying, as a fan and former coach, to watch these coaches teach their kids nothing about soccer other than having 9 defenders in the box. When you're outmatched, you're outmatched and it turns into strategic play. And that's what you're referring to. That's not as bad as making it your actual style of play!

Additionally, if I had been their coach that season, I would've put a bus on the side lol. That would be hilarious and they'd appreciate it. Sometimes the best team doesn't win the championship, and I don't think it was really anything Shiloh did that game that Harrison didn't expect. It just played out in Shiloh's favor. 

Sir Alex

Quote from: MDXPHD on March 18, 2018, 07:55:50 am
I think they parked the bus on more than one occasion that year. And it worked out for them in the finals after Harrison hit the post 87 times.

It's not bad coaching per say, but it's debatable. Mt. Home has done it so much in the past few years that it's become how they actually play. It's annoying, as a fan and former coach, to watch these coaches teach their kids nothing about soccer other than having 9 defenders in the box. When you're outmatched, you're outmatched and it turns into strategic play. And that's what you're referring to. That's not as bad as making it your actual style of play!

Additionally, if I had been their coach that season, I would've put a bus on the side lol. That would be hilarious and they'd appreciate it. Sometimes the best team doesn't win the championship, and I don't think it was really anything Shiloh did that game that Harrison didn't expect. It just played out in Shiloh's favor.

Well said. It did work that day and both programs have moved on to better formations which is what this thread is about. I merely poked fun at the 9-1 as a joke because all these formations being talked about are really just a starting point for the game. Very few teams that I have seen truly play within a well thought out tactical formation that fits the players on their team.

chandler

Quote from: chandler on March 16, 2018, 01:10:22 pm
Our Girls run a 4-2-3-1 with a diamond shaped defense. Our boys ran a 4-2-3-1 but recently started using a 5-4-1. They often push up their FBs to essentially shift into a 3-4-3.

I like putting quick athletes at the FB and giving them the freedom to push up to the opponent's box on the attack. And still having three defenders back and the opposite FB holding the back door. When we did the same with a 4 man backfield, we were getting beat on the counter too often. Also, I still have the ability to park the bus when up against a superior team. ;) But as mentioned previously, it's more about how the system fits the players. When we had 4 solid (Senior) defenders, we preferred the 4-2-3-1.

mhip201

Quote from: MDXPHD on March 18, 2018, 07:55:50 am
I think they parked the bus on more than one occasion that year. And it worked out for them in the finals after Harrison hit the post 87 times.

It's not bad coaching per say, but it's debatable. Mt. Home has done it so much in the past few years that it's become how they actually play. It's annoying, as a fan and former coach, to watch these coaches teach their kids nothing about soccer other than having 9 defenders in the box. When you're outmatched, you're outmatched and it turns into strategic play. And that's what you're referring to. That's not as bad as making it your actual style of play!

Additionally, if I had been their coach that season, I would've put a bus on the side lol. That would be hilarious and they'd appreciate it. Sometimes the best team doesn't win the championship, and I don't think it was really anything Shiloh did that game that Harrison didn't expect. It just played out in Shiloh's favor.

Bad coaching? If I'm not mistaken, we base coaches off of the success that they have, correct? The Mountain Home boys have had made it to the state championship 5 times playing this strategy. Currently, they are on a 24 game winning streak (27 if you count the district tournament) in the regular season. I just don't see how this can be called bad coaching. Mountain Home isn't exactly known for the athletes that they produce, so the coaches have to work with what they have. If they tried to play conventionally, against the Siloam Springs and Jonesboro teams that we see each year, they would get the brakes blown off of them.

Just food for thought.

sssuperpantherfan2

Too many defenders in the box will open up opportunity for a PK, there's always a lot of contact and aggressive play. You get down a couple scores and you have to move the bus.

MDXPHD

Quote from: mhip201 on March 22, 2018, 06:28:01 pm
Bad coaching? If I'm not mistaken, we base coaches off of the success that they have, correct? The Mountain Home boys have had made it to the state championship 5 times playing this strategy. Currently, they are on a 24 game winning streak (27 if you count the district tournament) in the regular season. I just don't see how this can be called bad coaching. Mountain Home isn't exactly known for the athletes that they produce, so the coaches have to work with what they have. If they tried to play conventionally, against the Siloam Springs and Jonesboro teams that we see each year, they would get the brakes blown off of them.

Just food for thought.

I absolutely do not deem a coach successful based solely on his wins and losses. If you do, that's your choice, but there are plenty of other factors to consider.

MH should've lost to Batesville a couple of weeks ago and the ref decided to make up some bogus call. They're good, but if you think they have one of the top soccer coaches in the state, you are mistaken. He loads the box, and hopes for a shootout. Not much soccer being played over there. Just food for thought.

arsoccer

Quote from: MDXPHD on March 23, 2018, 10:53:41 am
I absolutely do not deem a coach successful based solely on his wins and losses. If you do, that's your choice, but there are plenty of other factors to consider.

MH should've lost to Batesville a couple of weeks ago and the ref decided to make up some bogus call. They're good, but if you think they have one of the top soccer coaches in the state, you are mistaken. He loads the box, and hopes for a shootout. Not much soccer being played over there. Just food for thought.

Believe it or not this actually is soccer.   You may not like it, you may not agree with it, you may prefer to play/coach another way, but it's definitely soccer.  I find it exhausting  reading this sentiment on these boards over and over.  "They don't play real soccer", "They don't play soccer the right way".   Let me ask you this, if the way they are playing the game is so wrong wouldn't it be something that would be quite easy to take advantage of by a smart coach and/or good players.  There's a reason teams, at virtually every level of the game, look to "park the bus" and counter attack.  The reason is because its' successful.  I can't say playing this way is my personal preference but I can say I've done it a number of times.  This was a decision I based on personnel and opponent.   I'm assuming these coaches and teams are making the same decision.  Nothing wrong with that.

Let me take the other side of the argument.  I'm of the opinion that good soccer teams/coaches should be able to adjust tactics based on the variables of the game and have the technical ability to pull off those tactical adjustments.  In my experiences I'm more likely to argue that teams/coaches that face teams parking the bus "aren't playing soccer" because they rarely adjust their play to their given environment.  Many times they seem quite content passing the ball left to right, having 85% of the possession, all the while never crossing midfield.  This type of play, in my opinion,  represents a lack of understanding of how to penetrate and how to adjust tactically.  I'm amazed at the number of coaches screaming "just keep it" as the other team stands there and lets you "just keep it".  I'm all for possession, but what's the point if it never leads to penetration? 

In these situations you many times have one team making tactical adjustments in order to have success and you have another team making no adjustments.  I'm more likely to say the team with less possession but making adjustments is playing soccer rather than the team with all the possession but making no adjustments.

ARSOCCER2017

I run a 4-2-3-1 system. My holding mid-fielders are supposed to support my attacking 4, but not go into the 18 yd box. I think its a good compromise of not completely parking the bus but our game plan is to play more defensively and wait on a counter attack goal after a mistake. If the counter does not come then we hope to go to PKs. My team is made up of players who do not have the means to play year round soccer, so we do our best to compete with what we have.

I did hear a story the other day about a team putting all 11 into the box and just punting the ball downfield...I do not agree with that and think it is a travesty to the game. Even if we are outgunned I still would like for it to resemble a soccer game. I think my players can learn from trying to compete with a superior team instead of abandoning the game entirely.

jimmyt

I am firmly on the MH side on this issue. The people who seem so upset about it are probably the ones who have had better teams and lost to them.

You don't see people on the basketball threads getting mad at teams for walking the ball up court and playing a sagging zone or football threads for Cabot running the Dead T because it slows the game down and gives those kids a fighting chance...

Putting numbers behind the ball is smart. It requires the other team to throw more numbers up to try to score a goal and then the chance of a counter attack is greater. MH does teach fundamentals and they do have some technical kids but their coach has a system and it works. They don't play super defensive every game, only when they think they are outmatched.

pantherdad

I think the whole argument against "parking the bus" is kinda funny. The whole purpose of playing a game is to win, right? Especially in high school. Face it, players are for the most part getting their skills honed during club season. Yes, it's not necessarily pretty soccer, but it's an acceptable tactic that even professional teams deploy when needed.

It's exciting to see teams be able to play defensive when required, possessive when possible, and direct "boot it" when the opportunity is presented. I've watched professional teams possess the majority of a game, but not be able to finish. Now that's boring!

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