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Bentonville vs. Texas High (Texarkana)

Started by AHS06, July 13, 2010, 06:08:27 pm

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businesstron

Quote from: Valleysports on July 19, 2010, 08:38:29 am
Quote from: gatecrasher on July 18, 2010, 06:08:43 pm
I've said it before.....with a few exceptions (04 LR Central, 05 Springdale), ain't nobody from our state got any business in Texas playing the real BIG BOYS of high school football.

Marshall, Longview, Texarkana, aint' real BIG BOYS in Texas - that's the reason they dropped to 4A. Gate if you don't think Eldo has any business playing these Texas 4A teams, then Har-Ber is fixing to rip your team a new one!!!!  And trust me, I havn't had much respect for Arkansas Football in the past!  8) 

Longview is a big dawg in Texas.  They beat Allen when Allen was the #1 team in the state.  They also gave Lake Travis their toughest game of the year in the state title (lost 24-16).  Lake Travis was ranked in many top ten polls NATIONALLY.  They also destroyed the team that Euless Trinity only beat by a couple of points in the 5a D1 title game.     When you think East Texas you think Longview, Lufkin, Tyler HS, Tyler Lee, and Marshall.  Texas High, Kilgore, Tatum, and Gilmer would probably be second tier. 

Longview has also beat John Curtis, Shreveport Evangel and West Monroe through the years....

AHS06

Quote from: businesstron on July 19, 2010, 01:03:58 pm
Quote from: Valleysports on July 19, 2010, 08:38:29 am
Quote from: gatecrasher on July 18, 2010, 06:08:43 pm
I've said it before.....with a few exceptions (04 LR Central, 05 Springdale), ain't nobody from our state got any business in Texas playing the real BIG BOYS of high school football.

Marshall, Longview, Texarkana, aint' real BIG BOYS in Texas - that's the reason they dropped to 4A. Gate if you don't think Eldo has any business playing these Texas 4A teams, then Har-Ber is fixing to rip your team a new one!!!!  And trust me, I havn't had much respect for Arkansas Football in the past!  8) 

Longview is a big dawg in Texas.  They beat Allen when Allen was the #1 team in the state.  They also gave Lake Travis their toughest game of the year in the state title (lost 24-16).  Lake Travis was ranked in many top ten polls NATIONALLY.  They also destroyed the team that Euless Trinity only beat by a couple of points in the 5a D1 title game.     When you think East Texas you think Longview, Lufkin, Tyler HS, Tyler Lee, and Marshall.  Texas High, Kilgore, Tatum, and Gilmer would probably be second tier. 

Longview has also beat John Curtis, Shreveport Evangel and West Monroe through the years....
This is a really good post with one exception, if Marshall is Top Tier so should Texas High.  Texas High has the best overall record with Marshall, and has handled Marshall on the regular these past years. 

george7244

Quote from: SantaHog on July 19, 2010, 09:25:15 am<br />If they're playing in Texas, it should be an eye-opening experience for Bentonville.  Texas plays by NCAA rules, so holding calls on the line are different.  It's probably a bigger game for Bentonville than Texas High.  I know Texas High did not get up for the games with Lake Hamilton.<br />
how is holding on the line or anywhere else different in ncaa than federated?

businesstron

Quote from: AHS06 on July 19, 2010, 05:12:03 pm
Quote from: businesstron on July 19, 2010, 01:03:58 pm
Quote from: Valleysports on July 19, 2010, 08:38:29 am
Quote from: gatecrasher on July 18, 2010, 06:08:43 pm
I've said it before.....with a few exceptions (04 LR Central, 05 Springdale), ain't nobody from our state got any business in Texas playing the real BIG BOYS of high school football.

Marshall, Longview, Texarkana, aint' real BIG BOYS in Texas - that's the reason they dropped to 4A. Gate if you don't think Eldo has any business playing these Texas 4A teams, then Har-Ber is fixing to rip your team a new one!!!!  And trust me, I havn't had much respect for Arkansas Football in the past!  8) 

Longview is a big dawg in Texas.  They beat Allen when Allen was the #1 team in the state.  They also gave Lake Travis their toughest game of the year in the state title (lost 24-16).  Lake Travis was ranked in many top ten polls NATIONALLY.  They also destroyed the team that Euless Trinity only beat by a couple of points in the 5a D1 title game.     When you think East Texas you think Longview, Lufkin, Tyler HS, Tyler Lee, and Marshall.  Texas High, Kilgore, Tatum, and Gilmer would probably be second tier. 

Longview has also beat John Curtis, Shreveport Evangel and West Monroe through the years....
This is a really good post with one exception, if Marshall is Top Tier so should Texas High.  Texas High has the best overall record with Marshall, and has handled Marshall on the regular these past years. 

I guess it's debatable..... I think Texarkana has the edge this decade but not by too much    I put  Marshall in the top tier because they competed with the other big 5a East Texas schools up until 2000.  They only won one title but it was while they were in 5a...in 1990 (they lost in the final the year before).  When they went 4a they went to the 4a title game twice but lost both times..

Texarkana wasn't much of anything until Norton got there in 2002.  Most of their success came in the last decade.  They haven't done too much more then Kilgore or Sulphur Springs (both won State titles this decade). 

I guess the reason I put Marshall in the first tier is their success in 5a. 

Texarkana_Piggie

that was when they dropped down in classification.  you're right, until they dropped in classification, they rarely made playoffs.

7AFBFAN

Serious question, how many state titles have all of the top tier teams won over the past 10-20 years? Including Texarkana, Tx... I keep hearing that Bentonville may be down this year, if that is the case a top Texas team should win by 28+ sounds like. I just can't see a team going to Bentonville and winning by more than 7-10 points. I guess we shall see.

Baitshop

Bentonville ain't gonna be down.....they have an offensive line that looks like it could play in the Gulf South Conference...

They will return to the Blackman days of pounding the ball down people's throat....

And Robbie Jones seems to always make lemonade out lemons with his defense's....

As long as Barry and Coach Jones have 2700+ kids to choose from, they will find a way to be tough.....

AHS06

Quote from: 7AFBFAN on July 19, 2010, 08:34:23 pm
Serious question, how many state titles have all of the top tier teams won over the past 10-20 years? Including Texarkana, Tx... I keep hearing that Bentonville may be down this year, if that is the case a top Texas team should win by 28+ sounds like. I just can't see a team going to Bentonville and winning by more than 7-10 points. I guess we shall see.
State Champs and State Runner Ups (1990-2009)....Longview-Runner up 1997, 2008-2009...Lufkin-State 2001....Tyler Lee-State 2004....John Tyler-State 1994 Runner Up 2000....Texas High-State 2002.....Marshall-State 1990, Runner Ups 2004-2005.  These teams go deep into the playoffs every year.

Total: 5 State Titles.......6 Runner Ups

Smithian

Quote from: george7244 on July 19, 2010, 05:36:44 pm
Quote from: SantaHog on July 19, 2010, 09:25:15 am<br />If they're playing in Texas, it should be an eye-opening experience for Bentonville.  Texas plays by NCAA rules, so holding calls on the line are different.  It's probably a bigger game for Bentonville than Texas High.  I know Texas High did not get up for the games with Lake Hamilton.<br />
how is holding on the line or anywhere else different in ncaa than federated?
I just read over that. Texas HS football pumpers are professionals at embellishing everything. We all know Texas HS football is elite but those who try to pump it up act like Arkansas is the Gulf South Conference compared to Texas being the SEC.

transplant


7AFBFAN

Dude you guys were pumping one or two teams and your example of state titles involved a bunch of teams. I think over 20 years there were probably 20 state champions and 20 runner-ups if you look closely. :) Seriously I was just asking for facts about Marshall and Longview, those seemed to be the two teams that were being portrayed as above all of Arkansas football.

Texarkana_Piggie

texas high's excuse for not winning a lot of state titles is that they have to play so many games to get to the championship game.  the last few years, ths has done great in their district play but when they get pitted against the big boys from the dallas area, they usually get their butts handed to them.

Valleysports

Quote from: Smithian on July 20, 2010, 11:34:02 am
I just read over that. Texas HS football pumpers are professionals at embellishing everything. We all know Texas HS football is elite but those who try to pump it up act like Arkansas is the Gulf South Conference compared to Texas being the SEC.

Well that might not be so far off - SEC compared to GSC!  But my part, in this, is saying Texas High isn't the King of Texas, nor one of the REAL BIG BOYS (as Gate posted)!  Beating them won't make the rest of Texas think an Arkansas Team has arrived.  Yes the Green Machine (Longview) was always stong.

ASH I know you're a young pup - but all you need to do is explain what's changed since I played and really kept up with E Tex Football (I'll listen!) - no need to respond to every post with an insult.  ::) 

One more thing for the 6A South (can't believe I'm saying this). Have you driven a NWA 7A Team lately?  They aren't the teams of 5 or 6 yrs ago either!

AHS06

Quote from: 7AFBFAN on July 20, 2010, 05:20:53 pm
Dude you guys were pumping one or two teams and your example of state titles involved a bunch of teams. I think over 20 years there were probably 20 state champions and 20 runner-ups if you look closely. :) Seriously I was just asking for facts about Marshall and Longview, those seemed to be the two teams that were being portrayed as above all of Arkansas football.
You should really read over your last post, asking about how many state titles the so called Top TIER has, but I would not say Marshall is considered over Arkansas football.  I will say Longview is above Arkansas football almost every year.

businesstron

Quote from: 7AFBFAN on July 20, 2010, 05:20:53 pm
Dude you guys were pumping one or two teams and your example of state titles involved a bunch of teams. I think over 20 years there were probably 20 state champions and 20 runner-ups if you look closely. :) Seriously I was just asking for facts about Marshall and Longview, those seemed to be the two teams that were being portrayed as above all of Arkansas football.

Even though they haven't won a state title since 1937, Longview definitely is above EVERY team in the state of Arkansas on most years.....especially in the last 10-15 years.  Tyler John Tyler is the only big east Texas school that has 3 or 4 state titles but they've been up and down in the last 10 years. 

Marshall may not be recently but they have a good record against Arkansas teams (they beat Southside in 99)  Beat some arkansas team 53-14 (it said West Fayetteville..I'm not too sure about that), beat Benton a couple times in 90 and 91.  The only Arkansas team they struggled with was Texarkana (they beat them a couple times in the 70s and 80s).  Marshall would win a couple of titles in Arkansas...they could atleast make the playoffs in 7a most years.


Historic records for Marshall

http://texashsfootball.com/board/index.php?showtopic=26849

Historic Records for Longview..

http://texashsfootball.com/board/index.php?showtopic=24017


Texas High

http://texashsfootball.com/board/index.php?showtopic=35576

7AFBFAN

Now that's what I am talking about, very impressive! I think Longview would be a tall order for the top Arkansas on a good year but from the looks of it I would think they could do a lot better than most of the Texas teams did last year. Marshall and Texarkana look like a better match to the top Arkansas teams.

businesstron

Quote from: Smithian on July 20, 2010, 11:34:02 am
Quote from: george7244 on July 19, 2010, 05:36:44 pm
Quote from: SantaHog on July 19, 2010, 09:25:15 am<br />If they're playing in Texas, it should be an eye-opening experience for Bentonville.  Texas plays by NCAA rules, so holding calls on the line are different.  It's probably a bigger game for Bentonville than Texas High.  I know Texas High did not get up for the games with Lake Hamilton.<br />
how is holding on the line or anywhere else different in ncaa than federated?
I just read over that. Texas HS football pumpers are professionals at embellishing everything. We all know Texas HS football is elite but those who try to pump it up act like Arkansas is the Gulf South Conference compared to Texas being the SEC.

Not the GSC but maybe the Sun Belt....or...no Sun Belt is about right.

Comparison....

Allen,Tx Oline's

OL   Cedric Ogbuehi   Allen, TexasAllen   6'5"   270
OL   Luke Burleson   Allen, TexasAllen   6'6"   275
OL   Taylor Pearson   Allen, TexasAllen   6'5"   287
OL   Richard Greer   Allen, TexasAllen   6'2"   285   5.1
OL   Brad McNulty   Allen, TexasAllen   6'3"   309

All of those lineman will be playing for a college next fall.  Four of em are D1. Back that up with a D1 Qb, a D1 receiver, some future D1 running backs, a good defense and a good coach and what do you get?  A second round loss to Southlake Carroll in overtime.

They also lost to Longview...and at the time they lost to Longview they were the #1 team in 5a at the time of that lost. 



You find me a couple of Arkansas teams that can put that kind of talent together and I'll up em from Sun Belt to Wac or something.  I haven't seen it in my 6 years here.

There ain't no embellishing here.  Those are just cold hard facts.

7AFBFAN

Aw heck, Shiloh fields a team with 22 D-I guys every year, some of which skip college and go straight to the pros, just ask them.  ;D


Smithian

Quote from: businesstron on July 20, 2010, 08:16:20 pmNot the GSC but maybe the Sun Belt....or...no Sun Belt is about right.

Comparison....

Allen,Tx Oline's

OL   Cedric Ogbuehi   Allen, TexasAllen   6'5"   270
OL   Luke Burleson   Allen, TexasAllen   6'6"   275
OL   Taylor Pearson   Allen, TexasAllen   6'5"   287
OL   Richard Greer   Allen, TexasAllen   6'2"   285   5.1
OL   Brad McNulty   Allen, TexasAllen   6'3"   309

All of those lineman will be playing for a college next fall.  Four of em are D1. Back that up with a D1 Qb, a D1 receiver, some future D1 running backs, a good defense and a good coach and what do you get?  A second round loss to Southlake Carroll in overtime.

They also lost to Longview...and at the time they lost to Longview they were the #1 team in 5a at the time of that lost. 



You find me a couple of Arkansas teams that can put that kind of talent together and I'll up em from Sun Belt to Wac or something.  I haven't seen it in my 6 years here.

There ain't no embellishing here.  Those are just cold hard facts.
Bentonville fans(BillyO)last year posted stats of their whole O-Line and made Southside fans know how their whole O-Line was going D1, how they had the best athletes on both sides, and just how simply amazing their talent was.

Southside who put approximately zero kids D1 last year gave them their only 2 losses last year.

Northside back in 2006 had like three or four guys on the O-Line who actually did go D1 before having off field stuff derail them. They also had Kodi Burns. And a whole ton of + level athletes on defense. Southside didn't. We won. Rogers had Lee Ziemba on the O-Line and I think he gave up 3.5 of the 10 sacks Southsides picked up that day. NLR had Zach Stadther. LR Central had Genesis Cole and Charles Clay. I'm a Southside fan. You have to come at me with something better than, "They have college talent. You don't. You lose."

Back on the O-Line issue, the last 4 years Southside has been the only team who each year has had a run first, grind it out offense(BHS gets away from the run often, Har-Ber didn't get truly nasty until last year)and unlike BHS and HBHS who routinely march out monsters, aside from Van Buren in 2006/2007 and Heritage past two years, I think it's safe to say yearly Southside has the smallest O-Line in the 7A-West and do just fine. Har-Ber, BHS, FHS, and even Springdale have had kids bouncing around D1 offers from even SEC schools. Aside from one lone warrior currently patrolling the frozen tundra of D3 football up north, Southside hasn't had a single guy play college yet(this may change soon).

It's HS football man, it isn't all about talent. Yeah, you throw Southside into the top level of Texas HS football tomorrow, we're going to get our butts kicked a few times. We probably have a losing record. But once we adjust and simply start getting nastier and grittier, we'll win some games. We wouldn't turn into Van Buren. And that goes for Har-Ber and Bentonville as well. They'd adjust and eventually get nastier than everyone they play and win some games. You forget that Bentonville, Har-Ber, and Southside all march out 100+ kids every year at practice. You drop the big 3 of the 7A-West in any conference and eventually we'd start winning some games.

Earl is my Hero!!

Quote from: ricepig on July 19, 2010, 12:15:01 pm
I always put BillyO as an Overland Park type of guy, but who knows, I haven't been in that are in 15 years.

He said he was from Da Hood.

I think that means Olathe...

Quote from: Smithian on July 19, 2010, 12:07:42 pm
Quote from: Earl is my Hero!! on July 14, 2010, 08:20:55 am
Sorry Boys and Girls, but I'm afraid it will be a down year for the Tigers.

And I'm afraid we have lost BillyO as well...
1. BS

2. Double BS


Wait and see. BillyO is no where to be see or heard. He does not respond to phone calls.

I think the Tigers finish 3rd at best...

Quote from: Smithian on July 19, 2010, 12:07:42 pm
Quote from: QF© on July 14, 2010, 07:15:32 pm
When Lunney has a team that is not talked about as much as others, it often leads to surprising people.
I think Mr. Earl got pulled into an office and told to stop riling up the masses on Fearless. The morale of Lunney's kids was dropping when they read Bait's prognostications.

No one controls The Earl. Shoot, most the time The Earl can't even control The Earl's mouth...

Quote from: Smithian on July 19, 2010, 12:07:42 pm
Quote from: Earl is my Hero!! on July 15, 2010, 09:54:25 am
Yeah, but 90% of that extra 1,200 students skews to either the Pocket-Protector/Slide-Rule crowd or the emo faction.

You gotta remember, not everyone up here is as rugged as The Earl. We do have quite a few computer geeks and bean counters to support the hundreds of billions of dollars in commerce that flows through our beloved little hamlet...
Don't forget the bandies. You should be more proud of your son's chosen path in high school.

Sorry, BillyO was the one with the son in the band. By the way, I hear you play a mean skin flute...

businesstron

Quote from: Smithian on July 21, 2010, 03:18:02 pm
Quote from: businesstron on July 20, 2010, 08:16:20 pmNot the GSC but maybe the Sun Belt....or...no Sun Belt is about right.

Comparison....

Allen,Tx Oline's

OL   Cedric Ogbuehi   Allen, TexasAllen   6'5"   270
OL   Luke Burleson   Allen, TexasAllen   6'6"   275
OL   Taylor Pearson   Allen, TexasAllen   6'5"   287
OL   Richard Greer   Allen, TexasAllen   6'2"   285   5.1
OL   Brad McNulty   Allen, TexasAllen   6'3"   309

All of those lineman will be playing for a college next fall.  Four of em are D1. Back that up with a D1 Qb, a D1 receiver, some future D1 running backs, a good defense and a good coach and what do you get?  A second round loss to Southlake Carroll in overtime.

They also lost to Longview...and at the time they lost to Longview they were the #1 team in 5a at the time of that lost. 



You find me a couple of Arkansas teams that can put that kind of talent together and I'll up em from Sun Belt to Wac or something.  I haven't seen it in my 6 years here.

There ain't no embellishing here.  Those are just cold hard facts.
Bentonville fans(BillyO)last year posted stats of their whole O-Line and made Southside fans know how their whole O-Line was going D1, how they had the best athletes on both sides, and just how simply amazing their talent was.

Southside who put approximately zero kids D1 last year gave them their only 2 losses last year.

Northside back in 2006 had like three or four guys on the O-Line who actually did go D1 before having off field stuff derail them. They also had Kodi Burns. And a whole ton of + level athletes on defense. Southside didn't. We won. Rogers had Lee Ziemba on the O-Line and I think he gave up 3.5 of the 10 sacks Southsides picked up that day. NLR had Zach Stadther. LR Central had Genesis Cole and Charles Clay. I'm a Southside fan. You have to come at me with something better than, "They have college talent. You don't. You lose."

Back on the O-Line issue, the last 4 years Southside has been the only team who each year has had a run first, grind it out offense(BHS gets away from the run often, Har-Ber didn't get truly nasty until last year)and unlike BHS and HBHS who routinely march out monsters, aside from Van Buren in 2006/2007 and Heritage past two years, I think it's safe to say yearly Southside has the smallest O-Line in the 7A-West and do just fine. Har-Ber, BHS, FHS, and even Springdale have had kids bouncing around D1 offers from even SEC schools. Aside from one lone warrior currently patrolling the frozen tundra of D3 football up north, Southside hasn't had a single guy play college yet(this may change soon).

It's HS football man, it isn't all about talent. Yeah, you throw Southside into the top level of Texas HS football tomorrow, we're going to get our butts kicked a few times. We probably have a losing record. But once we adjust and simply start getting nastier and grittier, we'll win some games. We wouldn't turn into Van Buren. And that goes for Har-Ber and Bentonville as well. They'd adjust and eventually get nastier than everyone they play and win some games. You forget that Bentonville, Har-Ber, and Southside all march out 100+ kids every year at practice. You drop the big 3 of the 7A-West in any conference and eventually we'd start winning some games.

Good post but I'm talking about here and now....not really what if.   Talent isn't every thing in Texas but it does count for alot. Coaching counts the most though... There are a higher number of well coached teams WITH Talent in Texas.  When you get into the playoffs in Tx your not playing bad teams with 2 or 3 D1 athletes.  Your playing good teams that may have 4 or 5 DI athletes and a couple of FCS athletes on the side that are well coached and disciplined.  The Big 3 are well coached but if they go up a Tx team...or any team in general with a coach that equally as good that talent is going to give the Tx team the edge 9 times outta 10.   Especially with the Big 3 style of ball (basically just line up and run it at you). 

I remember seeing Northside almost lose to Rogers in 05 with all those players you mentioned.  I think they didn't even make the playoffs in 06 and that was because their have coaching isn't that great (atleast in my opinion).  What was wrong with their team that year?  I had them pin to win the state title after the Springdale 5 left. 

NLR had that DT and a couple of WR (I swear one of them was 6'6)  but they didn't have great coaching either. Their passing game was basically a fade route to their gigantic WRs.  The only reason they beat Bentonville was because they played good defense against Bentonville.  There had to be something up with B'ville line that night because the week before that Roger's D'line sacked Isabel a bunch of times. 

The Central win was a good win but that might of been more luck then anything Didn't y'll score the only touchdown off a muffed punt?

The teams you mentioned had a few athletes but they were really that great...

Northside underachieved in 06
NLR had some athletes but not a lot of coaching..
Central was an ok win but they had only two D1 athlete a FB and a DB...how were their lines?

Southside didn't have the smallest O-line in the conference last year.  They were right behind Harber and Bentonville as far as size goes on the lines..  They had good size as I remember it.  They had good size the year before too.   Northside and Fayetteville had the smallest lines.  Heritage wasn't nothing special....  Rogers was smallish and I can't remember what Springdale had..

I'm not a Southside fan but I do like watching em play.  But they have yet to beat a team with immense talent....and coaching.  Two or three D1 athletes doesn't make your team unbeatable.




7AFBFAN

You already explained the Southside win against Central in 2006 as a fluke. How would it be any different if they scheduled the great Texas teams weekly and won a few here and there? Those would be explained as a fluke as well. I say to each their own. The 7A West provides enough talent, competition, and excellent coaching to make every week a tough game. The kids work hard and deserve to be honored when they accomplish things like Southside did in 2006, and what Harber did last year in their short history. So, hopefully the Tigers are not down this year and they can send one of the great Texas teams back home with their tails between their legs.   

Valleysports

QuoteI remember seeing Northside almost lose to Rogers in 05 with all those players you mentioned.  I think they didn't even make the playoffs in 06 and that was because their coaching isn't that great (at least in my opinion).  What was wrong with their team that year?  I had them pin to win the state title after the Springdale 5 left.

If memory serves me correct, Russellville downed Northside in 06, 07, & 08, first Playoff Game.

businesstron

Quote from: Valleysports on July 21, 2010, 09:33:28 pm
QuoteI remember seeing Northside almost lose to Rogers in 05 with all those players you mentioned.  I think they didn't even make the playoffs in 06 and that was because their coaching isn't that great (at least in my opinion).  What was wrong with their team that year?  I had them pin to win the state title after the Springdale 5 left.

If memory serves me correct, Russellville downed Northside in 06, 07, & 08, first Playoff Game.

Your right about 07 and 08 but in 06 they didn't make the playoffs..... I think Southside actually eliminated them from the playoffs that year.

http://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/OMYfqeOL9Eeytl6NPV1jCg/northside-grizzlies/football-fall-06/schedule.htm

businesstron

Quote from: 7AFBFAN on July 21, 2010, 07:44:16 pm
You already explained the Southside win against Central in 2006 as a fluke. How would it be any different if they scheduled the great Texas teams weekly and won a few here and there? Those would be explained as a fluke as well. I say to each their own. The 7A West provides enough talent, competition, and excellent coaching to make every week a tough game. The kids work hard and deserve to be honored when they accomplish things like Southside did in 2006, and what Harber did last year in their short history. So, hopefully the Tigers are not down this year and they can send one of the great Texas teams back home with their tails between their legs.  

I didn't say the win was a fluke.  I will say they did get lucky against Central.  Southside's only points in that game came because long snapper and punter from Central weren't on the right page.  If you dispute that then I don't know what to tell you... Some teams need a lil luck..

If that 06 Southside team had to play a powerful Texas team like Euless Trinity, Katy, Southlake Carroll, Lufkin, Longview, or Cedar Hill they would've lost.  Central's 06 team doesn't compare.   When you say the tops in the 7a West have enough talent to compete in Texas that tells me you haven't seen alotta football outside of Arkansas.  Two different states two totally different beasts. 

RGP

Just for the record, I've seen plenty of bad football in Texas...

Sure the powerhouses are great and the towns put more money into it's football facilities than any other aspect in life, but to argue that it's anything more than High School football is just plain stupid.

D1 talent doesn't always translate into wins, just like great high school players oftentimes don't make great college players.

Just ask Todd Dodge if you think differently.

businesstron

You still don't get the point. There is bad football in Texas but were not talking about them.  D1 talent alone doesn't translate to wins BUT  Good coaching and good talent does.  That's where the top 10 in Arkansas and Texas differ.    The top of the 7a west has great coaching in general but not too much talent. The top teams in Texas have great coaches AND talent rather it be Southlake Carroll, Katy or Trinity.  Let's match up state champs....    Euless Trinity vs Harber...

The years Todd Dodge was at Southlake he had some major talent.   His lines weren't super huge but they were big and well conditioned and his defense always played lights out.  In 2006 he had 9 d-1 athletes on his squad. 2007 he had only 4 but he had some stud underclassmen play (like Tre Newton and Riley Dodge).  He left in 2008 but they had 6 more that year with another 3 playing in lower football divisions. Just last year Southlake Carroll had 8.  I mean come on... Their cupboard ain't bare.    You do have some teams like Katy that win alot with  a low amount of D1 talent but even they have more talent that Southside would. 

7AFBFAN

I think we get the point. You have little respect for the best teams in Arkansas and anything Texas is great. When you try to place teams like Texarkana and Marshall as the great unbeatable teams you lose just a little credibility. The best team in Texas beat the best team in Utah last year by 21 I believe, is that margin of victory showing greatness? I guess it is if Utah traditionally has great football teams. That greatest football team in Texas as of last year evidently picked an Arkansas 4A school to play this year, I wonder why they didn't pick a team like Jenks or Union that might actually give them a game.

Valleysports

QuoteYour right about 07 and 08 but in 06 they didn't make the playoffs..... I think Southside actually eliminated them from the playoffs that year

I like that website – looked back as far as it would go.
Russellville beat Northside in Oct of 04 & 05, didn't play in 06, then knocked em out of playoffs in 07 & 08. Gonna miss those guys!

Valleysports

QuoteI think we get the point. You have little respect for the best teams in Arkansas and anything Texas is great.

Just like 7A West Fans have little respect for the best 5A - 6A – 7C teams outside of NWA Arkansas and anything in NWA 7A is great?  Businesstron is saying compare Apples to Apples!  Bentonville, Har-Ber, Southside are great match-up's for Texas High who play's 2 notches down from 5A Large.. 

QuoteWhen you try to place teams like Texarkana and Marshall as the great unbeatable teams

Sure as heck wasn't Texas Folks placing Texas High and Marshall as great unbeatable teams. Texas High, Marshall, John Tyler, are all great match-ups for the Top Arkansas Teams. I'd even put my home team, Lee, in there!  However – our East Texas Schools, especially 4A and 5A small, aren't typically good match-ups for the 5A Large's out of Dallas, Houston, etc..  Of course every now and then an Earl Campbell comes along and  upturns the Apple Cart.

This is Sleepy Backwoods Arkansas - enjoy it for what it is!  I fell in love with this place the first time I was taken up Hwy 7 to the first Scenic Overview.  Long time ago Spurrr!  Be satisfied with your classification (< 7A), your conference (< NWA), your state (< Texas), and do the best that you can with the teams on your schedule! :D  Shut up ASH!

7AFBFAN

Some good points!

I guess for some respect has to be earned on the field. The 6A always has one good team, the 5A always has one, and the 7A Central usually has two pretty good teams. This year is no different, El Dorado will have a good team, Watson Chapel will be good in 5A, and Conway and West Memphis will probably be tops in the Central. I personally think the 7A West will have 4 - 6 very good teams that will compare to the others I mentioned. They will have 1 or 2 that will be the best in the state.

Curious about the enrollment of the best teams in Texas, are we comparing Apples to Apples? I doubt it.

ricepig

What??.. we are going to compare enrollment numbers. The party line for all 7A members is that school size doesn't matter, anybody over 1000 students should be able to play with anyone. Not enough studs, tough, just buckle up the old chin strap and take your medicine.

gatecrasher

If that were the case Rogers should be one of the state's best every year....

Someone's credibility just got shot. I'm not going back to see who. You know who you are.

businesstron

Quote from: 7AFBFAN on July 22, 2010, 07:17:03 pm
I think we get the point. You have little respect for the best teams in Arkansas and anything Texas is great. When you try to place teams like Texarkana and Marshall as the great unbeatable teams you lose just a little credibility. The best team in Texas beat the best team in Utah last year by 21 I believe, is that margin of victory showing greatness? I guess it is if Utah traditionally has great football teams. That greatest football team in Texas as of last year evidently picked an Arkansas 4A school to play this year, I wonder why they didn't pick a team like Jenks or Union that might actually give them a game.

It's not that I have little for the top ten in Arkansas.  It's an assessment made by watching the top  teams in arkansas AND Texas for the last six years.  Also from reading Hootens...vype...Dave Campbell....FNF.   Any reasonable person that saw the same stuff would come to the same conclusion. 

I actually didn't say Marshall and Texas High were unbeatable.  I basically said Longview was though.  I said Marshall would atleast make the playoffs in 7a due to the fact that they have a good record against Arkansas teams historically.

I was at the Trinity-Bingham (the Utah team you mentioned) game last year.  That game was over at halftime.  That was also Trinity's weakest point during the year, they had on 3 starters back from the year.  They lost their next two games to Texas teams after that.  Bingham actually had a good chunk of talent and size.  Trinity was still two steps faster than them though. 

Trinity wasn't the best team in Texas last year, Abilene was.  You could make an arguement for Lake Travis being number 1 too.  The two teams that Trinity lost too last year (Cedar Hill and Allen) lost in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of the playoffs last year.  Cedar Hill was blown out by Abilene, and Allen lost in triple OT to Southlake Carroll.  The team that blew Southlake Carroll out the next week eventually got destroyed by Abilene 35-7.   

In Texas in each class there are two division champs, division 1 and division 2.  Four teams qualify for the playoffs in each district.  The two largest schools go D1 and the two smallest go D2.
Euless Trinity was the Division 1 champ (Big School) but the Division II bracket (which Abilene won) had the better teams.  So the smaller 5a schools were better than the bigger ones last year.

Plano, Plano East, and Allen are some of the biggest schools in Texas. They have around 4700-5200 students. 

Valleysports

Businesstron - we played Skyline in preseaon, just looked them up - 4600 students.

Preseason Rankings:
I'm proud to see Tyler Lee 21 and Longview 24, both teams will go 5A, DII.
There are currently 245 schools in Class 5A.
Does look like a good year coming for Texas High.
Texas High is ranked 19th in 4A.



Valleysports

One more thing - Arkansas has the Best DII System in America!  There are a flood of Texas Kids who aren't DI, but find Arkansas DII to be a wonderful experience.  You can be proud of that!!!!!

Wonder how SAU would do against Woodlands?  ;D

RGP

Quote from: gatecrasher on July 22, 2010, 10:37:44 pm
If that were the case Rogers should be one of the state's best every year....

Someone's credibility just got shot. I'm not going back to see who. You know who you are.
I'm not following.... The 9th largest school in the 7A should be one of the best every year because....??

7AFBFAN

So why do the small schools in Texas not compete with 5A powers? I guess it doesn't have anything to do with numbers? Credibility, hah. I say when you can pull from 2000 kids as opposed to 500 you have an advantage. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. I think you know who you are fool.

gatecrasher

Someone posted something to the effect of "if a school has over 1000 students they should be good every year."
(paraphrasing).

It did completely go over my head though that Rogers had split....;D

It's been a hectic week. I haven't slept well. I'm gettin married tomorrow...;D

transplant

Yea....cause Heritage is only starting their 3rd year of football.

ricepig

That having a 1000 students went over most of your heads, that was for all those who think 6A + 7A should be together, yet come up with excuse after excuse for competing with the large schools in Texas.

RGP

Hey businesstron, while I really don't care about the majority of your Texas high school football game summaries in this thread, I really am curious why you keep claiming that Longview is the "unbeatable" "big dawg" when they have exactly ONE state championship.... ever.

Valleysports

QuoteSo why do the small schools in Texas not compete with 5A powers?

Not sure what you mean 7A?  Those 245, 5A schools, range from maybe 2200 - 5000 students.

QuoteLongview is the "unbeatable" "big dawg" when they have exactly ONE state championship.... ever.

Longview has always been so strong..  Always dominated our Conference when I was playing..  Lufkin is also another Top Team in our Conference.  If we got through our conference, then we had to go play Odesa, Woodlands, Trinity, Katies, and no telling who might have a team of the century from 245 other schools (current numbers).  It ain't like playing 16, 7A Arkansas Schools ranging from 1194 to 2400 students..

7AFBFAN

Valley, someone said the size in enrollment doesn't play a factor. I was just asking if that is the case why doesn't the smaller Texas schools play the Texas 5A powers? I already know the answer. Fielding a good team when you have an enrollment of 5000 is much easier than having only 500 to pick from. In Arkansas it would be like putting Bentonville and Harber together or Northside and Southside together. I would think in up years the combination of those schools could compete in Texas.

Gate you are fun to mess with but being serious for a minute, DON'T DO IT!!! Seriously, good luck and I hope God blesses your marriage.

Valleysports

QuoteLongview is the "unbeatable" "big dawg" when they have exactly ONE state championship.... ever.

Do you realize how comparable winning the 7A Arkansas State Championship is to winning the District that Longview, Lufkin, Tyler Lee, are in?  What would be cool is if we sent our 7A State Champion to the 5A Texas Playoffs as another District Champ.

So after Har-Ber gets a Bye, then beats Russellville, Bryant, and South Side, for the 7A State Championship we could send them down to whip Longview in Bi District, then in Round II they could take Odessa Permian out, and Round III maybe Woodlands, Quarterfinals Trinity, Semi's Katy, and finally Allen for the State Championship.  Consider Longview's District Championship's as Apples to Arkansas's 7A State Championship.

Texas High is an Arkla-Tex Powerhouse!

RGP

Quote from: Valleysports on July 23, 2010, 02:41:10 pm
Not sure what you mean 7A?  Those 245, 5A schools, range from maybe 2200 - 5000 students.
No, you don't understand his point. It's flying over your head. If enrollment doesn't play a factor, then why do the smaller (4A and below) not compete with 5A programs?

Valleysports

Yeh I understand and agree - I live in Russellville where we'll be playing sophomores and players both ways against Fayetteville in the 2nd week.

ricepig

Wear em out Valley, we play them in week 3 and will need some help. It will be interesting to see how many we have going both ways. Right now it just looks like two or three and they share the same position.

businesstron

Quote from: RGP on July 23, 2010, 12:02:31 pm
Hey businesstron, while I really don't care about the majority of your Texas high school football game summaries in this thread, I really am curious why you keep claiming that Longview is the "unbeatable" "big dawg" when they have exactly ONE state championship.... ever.

If you placed them in 7a Arkansas they would probably win State titles every other year and would be major contenders the rest of the time.  Their team speed makes them a horrible matchup for some of the top teams in  7a. I would say Harber and Bentonville would have an advantage on the lines but they've beaten plenty of teams with humongous talented lines. 

As far as titles goes they are a couple of good teams in Texas that haven't won state titles in forever (or haven't won any period)  that would be automatic title contenders in Arkansas.  Longview on more then a couple of occasions have beaten state championship teams (like Evangel and West Monroe) from Louisiana in Louisiana.  They are a perennial power in Texas despite they face they haven't won a title in so long.  They'll eventually break through (they went to the title game the last two years).   

catfish1

Bentonville can stay  with texas high  there about average to john tyler cujo and robert e lee marshall

Fox 16 Arkansas Fox 24 Arkansas