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Overall officiating during the regular season??

Started by Reddie20, November 15, 2017, 08:14:48 am

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Reddie20


Intelligentsia

I thought the officiating was pretty descent, for the most part.  Better than I've seen during a couple of years in the recent past.  And I say that as the Pioneers were on the road a lot this season.  There are always blown calls and calls not made that should have been.  Officiating most sports is difficult, but football, especially so. 

walkingguy72396


Deuceswild

Probably the most solid year for it, i will never agree with it all but I'm not always on field and even if i was, i usually see twice as many things happening the next day when i watch the game. Overall Very Pleased. Oh and looks like my check has cleared for the PA game so should be another blessing coming our way😂

P.F.G.

State wide shortage so if you aren't happy with it they would love for you to get involved with your local association.

Chief_Osceola™

It was hit or miss for us.  We had a 3 game stretch where it was meh to downright bad.  The game at Farmington was bordering on criminal.  I thought the best officials we saw all season were at Alma.

JessieP

The games we won they were great. The loses had horrible officiating. Let's see, football participation is down, it's lower in Arkansas then the National average. The reasons given are CTE, fear of all injuries, lack of parity and financial considerations. There is actually a shortage of officials, who wants to be underpaid and then criticized? The slow painful death of football is gaining speed. Maybe we should discuss ugly cheerleaders and bad snack bar food, that should help the cause. Give them a break guys, high school officials do the best they can, it's a thankless job.

P.F.G.

Normally giving up 6-7 hours on a Friday night for $100.

Go Postal

Quote from: Deuceswild on November 15, 2017, 08:55:06 am
Probably the most solid year for it, i will never agree with it all but I'm not always on field and even if i was, i usually see twice as many things happening the next day when i watch the game. Overall Very Pleased. Oh and looks like my check has cleared for the PA game so should be another blessing coming our way😂

PA Bruin Fan

Compared to the last 4-5 year's, I'd say it's the best we've had.  It's a thankless job these men do, and I certainly couldn't do it. 

Yellowcake

Thankless indeed. They are all doing their best. I appreciate their dedication. Wish I had got involved with it at a younger age. I'd love to ref.

Overdahill

I volunteer umpired and refereed basketball some and it gave me a totally new appreciation of officials. Things happened fast and there was no replay and "fans" with little apparent knowledge of the rules or the game were offering lots of feedback  :D . Once another coach and I took turns refereeing our own scrimmage game. we agreed beforehand not to call many fouls unless blatant in order to toughen the boys up and keep the action moving. We both got roasted by the parents on both sides. we got a good laugh out of that


JessieP

I too have total respect and empathy for the officials. I have officiated myself some years back, actually umpired. It was baseball at it's most intense and the stakes were unimaginable. The fans were rabid and the atmosphere was electric. The game was not without it's drama, one player swung so hard the top half of the T flew out past the pitchers circle. Later in that same game a ball rolled all the way to the fence, the ENTIRE defense chased after it and fought among themselves to see who got to throw it back. Finally there was one loud obnoxious Mom who would not stop criticizing me, I finally had my fill. I walked over to the fence and told her to shut up, she was embarrassing herself, she looked like an rear. I slept on the couch for 10 days after that.

PA Bruin Fan

Quote from: Overdahill on November 15, 2017, 08:20:17 pm
I volunteer umpired and refereed basketball some and it gave me a totally new appreciation of officials. Things happened fast and there was no replay and "fans" with little apparent knowledge of the rules or the game were offering lots of feedback  :D . Once another coach and I took turns refereeing our own scrimmage game. we agreed beforehand not to call many fouls unless blatant in order to toughen the boys up and keep the action moving. We both got roasted by the parents on both sides. we got a good laugh out of that

I coached all my kids until they reached the age to have actual paid coaching.  Parents OMG, some can be ridiculous. 

South 45

The only time I lost my cool with one of my players this year was for yelling at a ref over a call. I let the kid have it right then and there. Once i was done I noticed the ref chewing his whistle trying not to laugh. I grinned and asked him "what's so funny....the kid was right ya know".
Coaching can be bad enough. No way I could officiate. They are a special breed. Glad they're willing to do what they do.

arreferee

Quote from: Chief_Osceola™ on November 15, 2017, 11:28:07 am
It was hit or miss for us.  We had a 3 game stretch where it was meh to downright bad.  The game at Farmington was bordering on criminal.  I thought the best officials we saw all season were at Alma.

If your location of Maumelle on your profile page means you are talking about the Maumelle/Alma game, I'll pass that good word onto those officials.  I know the crew that had that game.  They are one of the best crews in the state (no, I'm not on that crew.  :))


Quote from: JessieP on November 15, 2017, 08:37:25 pm
I too have total respect and empathy for the officials. I have officiated myself some years back, actually umpired. It was baseball at it's most intense and the stakes were unimaginable. The fans were rabid and the atmosphere was electric. The game was not without it's drama, one player swung so hard the top half of the T flew out past the pitchers circle. Later in that same game a ball rolled all the way to the fence, the ENTIRE defense chased after it and fought among themselves to see who got to throw it back. Finally there was one loud obnoxious Mom who would not stop criticizing me, I finally had my fill. I walked over to the fence and told her to shut up, she was embarrassing herself, she looked like an rear. I slept on the couch for 10 days after that.

That's some funny stuff!

Chief_Osceola™

Quote from: arreferee on November 27, 2017, 01:04:06 pm
If your location of Maumelle on your profile page means you are talking about the Maumelle/Alma game, I'll pass that good word onto those officials.  I know the crew that had that game.  They are one of the best crews in the state (no, I'm not on that crew.  :))

Yes sir, thanks!  It was the best crew we (Maumelle) had all season.

Youngsta71701


footballfan-tastic

Oh come on, harassing officials is a national tradition.  Liking them is sort of like liking beets or spinach.  Yuk!!.   Best officials are the ones that you don't really notice.

High Voltage

I have to say this year overall wasn't too bad. Then here comes West Memphis to town, Semi-finals 6A state playoffs and we got a the worst crew of the year. Felt bad for West Memphis as they got some head scratchers as did GW.

footballfan-tastic

The biggest commonly heard complaints on officiating is they are too old to cover the field, they interpret rules differently, they tend to call games with a bias towards the "favored" team. 

P.F.G.

Bad thing is that we don't have younger officials starting up to replace older retiring officials. The shortage will be real here within the next 5-10 years.

Rulesman


footballfan-tastic

AOA and AAA need to actively recruit refs.  Raise the pay and they will come.

RD™

Quote from: High Voltage on November 28, 2017, 08:01:29 am
I have to say this year overall wasn't too bad. Then here comes West Memphis to town, Semi-finals 6A state playoffs and we got a the worst crew of the year. Felt bad for West Memphis as they got some head scratchers as did GW.
They were clueless.

Grond

November 29, 2017, 12:06:10 pm #25 Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 12:14:15 pm by Grond
I think the officials have done a good job, and bad calls are part of the game (like wind and rain, and poorly lit backboards on one side of the court [Valley View]).

I used to tell my AAU teams, "play to the ref!"

But something does concern me: Helmet-to-helmet contact.

Despite all the concussion protocol, I see far too many young men trying to "make the Hit" instead of "making the Play." I realize this is difficult, but I think more must be done if football is to SURVIVE as an EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTION.

I don't really fault officials, because they are following policy.

STBruin

Quote from: Grond on November 29, 2017, 12:06:10 pm
I think the officials have done a good job, and bad calls are part of the game (like wind and rain, and poorly lit backboards on one side of the court [Valley View]).

I used to tell my AAU teams, "play to the ref!"

But something does concern me: Helmet-to-helmet contact.

Despite all the concussion protocol, I see far too many young men trying to "make the Hit" instead of "making the Play." I realize this is difficult, but I think more must be done if football is to SURVIVE as an EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTION.

I know last year, I saw 2 targeting flags thrown... one in state and one in Utah, so it seems to be slowly trickling down to the high school level. But completely agree, and have been hearing more and more parents that are trying to keep their kids away from football because of all the complications with concussions and all the publicity that is now coming out.

I don't really fault officials, because they are following policy.

P.F.G.

Quote from: Grond on November 29, 2017, 12:06:10 pm
I think the officials have done a good job, and bad calls are part of the game (like wind and rain, and poorly lit backboards on one side of the court [Valley View]).

I used to tell my AAU teams, "play to the ref!"

But something does concern me: Helmet-to-helmet contact.

Despite all the concussion protocol, I see far too many young men trying to "make the Hit" instead of "making the Play." I realize this is difficult, but I think more must be done if football is to SURVIVE as an EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTION.

I don't really fault officials, because they are following policy.


This has been a point of emphasis the last couple clinics. We are getting to the point that if it's a close call on either bring helmet to helmet they will throw the flag and eject the player. This will only keep getting tighter

PA Dad

 No one will ever be happy with the officials.  How many times do posters say that the officials were great?

They do the best job they can.  They miss some calls but all of us would do so. 

Be thankful we have folks who strive to do a good job.  None of us could do better.

JessieP

Quote from: PA Dad on November 29, 2017, 10:03:37 pm
No one will ever be happy with the officials.  How many times do posters say that the officials were great?

They do the best job they can.  They miss some calls but all of us would do so. 

Be thankful we have folks who strive to do a good job.  None of us could do better.

Well said. I think they do a great job. It's said in the NFL, if you read the definition in the rule book, you could call holding on every single play. I bet in high school it's 100x's worse.

Chief_Osceola™

Quote from: JessieP on November 29, 2017, 10:15:57 pm
Well said. I think they do a great job. It's said in the NFL, if you read the definition in the rule book, you could call holding on every single play. I bet in high school it's 100x's worse.

The University of Alabama is the lone exception.  I think it's written somewhere that their lineman are not to be called for holding, under any circumstances.

Grond

Quote from: PA Dad on November 29, 2017, 10:03:37 pm
No one will ever be happy with the officials.  How many times do posters say that the officials were great?

They do the best job they can.  They miss some calls but all of us would do so. 

Be thankful we have folks who strive to do a good job.  None of us could do better.

I think it is important that officials are appreciated; but I also believe it is important for officiating to be analyzed.

Two examples of bad officiating:

2013 Football - Paragould @ Batesville:  Refs were not calling late hits or out of bounds hits. By midway through the 2nd quarter, Paragould was down to their 4th Runningback. I actually gathered video evidence, and wanted to present a case to AAA.

2014 Basketball - Paragould had a star player (senior) received a technical foul under odd conditions (no one within 15 ft. of him, not near an official). Investigation showed that the player had received 5 tech fouls in his high school career; 4 from the SAME ref! AAA banned the ref from officiating further Paragould games.

We should all be treated with respect, and we should all be held accountable.

footballfan-tastic

Quote from: Grond on November 30, 2017, 12:26:15 pm
I think it is important that officials are appreciated; but I also believe it is important for officiating to be analyzed.

Two examples of bad officiating:



2014 Basketball - Paragould had a star player (senior) received a technical foul under odd conditions (no one within 15 ft. of him, not near an official). Investigation showed that the player had received 5 tech fouls in his high school career; 4 from the SAME ref! AAA banned the ref from officiating further Paragould games.

We should all be treated with respect, and we should all be held accountable.

Do you realize you just accused an official of being unfair, prejudiced or downright gunning for a player?   We know they all try their best.

PA Dad

November 30, 2017, 11:32:29 pm #33 Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 09:12:10 am by PA Dad
Quote from: Grond on November 30, 2017, 12:26:15 pm
I think it is important that officials are appreciated; but I also believe it is important for officiating to be analyzed.

Two examples of bad officiating:

2013 Football - Paragould @ Batesville:  Refs were not calling late hits or out of bounds hits. By midway through the 2nd quarter, Paragould was down to their 4th Runningback. I actually gathered video evidence, and wanted to present a case to AAA.

2014 Basketball - Paragould had a star player (senior) received a technical foul under odd conditions (no one within 15 ft. of him, not near an official). Investigation showed that the player had received 5 tech fouls in his high school career; 4 from the SAME ref! AAA banned the ref from officiating further Paragould games.

We should all be treated with respect, and we should all be held accountable.

I am not saying that officials always get it right, nor am I saying they shouldn't be analyzed.  We have all seen bad officiating.  I am saying that I believe they do their best and don't deserve being booed.

Come on, Grond, are you going to volunteer to be an official?

They have a tough job.  Overall, I think they do a good job.

Rulesman

Quote from: Grond on November 30, 2017, 12:26:15 pm

2014 Basketball - Paragould had a star player (senior) received a technical foul under odd conditions (no one within 15 ft. of him, not near an official). Investigation showed that the player had received 5 tech fouls in his high school career; 4 from the SAME ref! AAA banned the ref from officiating further Paragould games.

The AAA does not get involved in banning officials. They leave those decsions to the assignor who would work with the school to resolve the issue. Good assignors try to stay in the middle ground and will generally take care of satisfying both the school and the official. It's not rocket science but there is a learned skill called experience that can make it a win-win for everyone without making it a big deal for anyone.

walkingguy72396

Guess fans should not cheer also.

Cheering and booing just part of the game.

Try to keep the cheering for the kids.

The booing for the grown ups.  Oh and show boating.

footballfan-tastic

Boy, ya'll taking the fun out of the game.  It's emotional, you take out the emotion and you will have empty seats.  Officials are generally OK, not great not terrible.  Although there are some of both.  I would never mention names but I've heard and heard others say things like,, "that guy is always bad" .  Yeah, sometimes its disgruntled fans or coaches but not always.  Some guys don't do a great job. 
I have friends that officiate, I like them, some are just so so on the field, I still like them.  Even have dinner with a few of them on occasion.  Have had discussions about officiating with them, don't always agree. 
Ban them all for screwing up and you won't have a handful left. 

Grond

Quote from: footballfan-tastic on November 30, 2017, 10:26:40 pm
Do you realize you just accused an official of being unfair, prejudiced or downright gunning for a player?   We know they all try their best.

Yes. And I agree that officials should be treated with respect. I also understand that certain fouls (such as pass interference) has became particularly difficult to call.

In this case, a person watched film across 2 seasons of games to get the film evidence.

Grond

Quote from: PA Dad on November 30, 2017, 11:32:29 pm
I am not saying that officials always get it right, nor am I saying they shouldn't be analyzed.  We have all seen bad officiating.  I am saying that I believe they do their best and don't deserve being booed.

Come on, Grond, are you going to volunteer to be an official?

They have a tough job.  Overall, I think they do a good job.

I have been on FearlessFriday long enough to know that there are several "unwritten rules". One of those is that, if you are critical of officials, you are going to get hammered.

It's ok; I'm a big boy, I can take it.

I have officiated some middle school & junior high football/basketball games. However, I am not a licensed official. (By the way, you don't know the meaning of "persecution" until you ref a 5th grade girls basketball game.)

But in all things, there is good and bad. 99% of refs do a great job (and deserve more $ per game).

The point I wanted to get across is: If you feel there is a bad situation, there is an option to present video evidence.

MDXPHD

Quote from: Grond on November 30, 2017, 12:26:15 pm

2013 Football - Paragould @ Batesville:  Refs were not calling late hits or out of bounds hits. By midway through the 2nd quarter, Paragould was down to their 4th Runningback. I actually gathered video evidence, and wanted to present a case to AAA.



Grond, we all know that every team that plays at Batesville gets all the right calls. It's always a perfectly called game and the away team usually gets away with a lot more. Watson Chapel will attest to this.

JessieP

Quote from: Grond on December 01, 2017, 03:57:45 pm
I have been on FearlessFriday long enough to know that there are several "unwritten rules". One of those is that, if you are critical of officials, you are going to get hammered.

It's ok; I'm a big boy, I can take it.

I have officiated some middle school & junior high football/basketball games. However, I am not a licensed official. (By the way, you don't know the meaning of "persecution" until you ref a 5th grade girls basketball game.)

But in all things, there is good and bad. 99% of refs do a great job (and deserve more $ per game).

The point I wanted to get across is: If you feel there is a bad situation, there is an option to present video evidence.

Video evidence in high school is a shaky at best solution. When you watch replays on college or NFL games you get 8 different hi-def camera angles. In high school you have maybe two, usually one, camera sitting on top of the press box. What you do not get is sound of any quality. Late hits? When was the whistle blown? Out of bounds? Was the player able to "pull up" or did momentum carry him into the play? High School video proof in never proof. There was a play this year in the VV/Batesville game, a supposed fumble. Someone said they had video proof it was a fumble, the refs ruled the play over, another poster correct said "Batesville fans will say good call, VV fans will say highway robbery", The video was viewed by a few neutral fans and guess what? Yep, half said fumble, half said he was down. The point was that high school video is never conclusive. The refs make the call on the spot, no replays or help from the booth. Overall they do a great job.   

PA Dad

Quote from: Grond on December 01, 2017, 03:57:45 pm
I have been on FearlessFriday long enough to know that there are several "unwritten rules". One of those is that, if you are critical of officials, you are going to get hammered.

It's ok; I'm a big boy, I can take it.

I have officiated some middle school & junior high football/basketball games. However, I am not a licensed official. (By the way, you don't know the meaning of "persecution" until you ref a 5th grade girls basketball game.)

But in all things, there is good and bad. 99% of refs do a great job (and deserve more $ per game).

The point I wanted to get across is: If you feel there is a bad situation, there is an option to present video evidence.

I have no problem getting rid of incompetent or biased officials.  I think that's your point.

And I didn't mean to "hammer" you.  I'm sorry if I offended you.

Grond

Quote from: PA Dad on December 01, 2017, 05:00:31 pm
I have no problem getting rid of incompetent or biased officials.  I think that's your point.

And I didn't mean to "hammer" you.  I'm sorry if I offended you.

You didn't offend me at all. Or "hammer" me. Most of my officiating experiences came from Spring/Summer basketball tourneys (where they are looking for any 'warm body' to ref a game).

At a 7th grade Girls game, a young woman caught a pass at the 3-point line, and ran in for a layup - without taking a dribble. So I called "Walking".

A woman in the stands (small gym, about a 5-row stand opposite the player benches) stands up, and yells, "That's allowed in the NBA!!!" And no one was laughing... ::)

In a 3rd & 4th grade football game, I saw a clip, and had trouble pulling the flag out of my baggy shorts. Eventually got the flag out, and the clipping penalty brought back a TD.

I had been on the side of the field with the team that was on defense (the team that GOT clipped). What I didn't realize is that, to the opposing coach, it looked like the defense started yelling, "Clip! Clip!" and THEN I called the penalty (because I was slow pulling out the flag).

So, in the second half, I am on the opposite side of the field: Over by the team that I had called the clipping penalty ON. The coach says, "Don't let them tell you what calls to make!" I told him, "I called what I saw."

Fun, fun, fun.

Rulesman

Quote from: MDXPHD on December 01, 2017, 04:28:42 pm
Grond, we all know that every team that plays at Batesville gets all the right calls. It's always a perfectly called game and the away team usually gets away with a lot more. Watson Chapel will attest to this.
except for football playoffs, keep in mind the officials assigned to Batesville are assigned by the same person who assigns every other school in the 5A East. Your theory is all wet.

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