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Author Topic: Changes to the AAA  (Read 9348 times)

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Offline HorseFeathers

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2018, 09:02:17 pm »
Biggest part of It for me....no teams stalling with 3 minutes to go only leading by a possession....

Offline iRebound

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2018, 11:17:53 am »
Shot clock would improve the fan experience, no doubt, would also force coaches to coach better possession management, would give defenses a great advantage...if they rebound well.  All in all, it would make the game much more exciting.  Those other comments about taking advantage of current rules are moot in my opinion.

However, the original question to this thread was what could be done to improve basketball...

Have senior high coaches take a greater role in supporting and developing the elementary basketball leagues.  It's amazing how many large schools have communities that have weak elementary leagues with limited facilities, coaches, and practice time.  Then dedicate more time to skills such as shooting and ball handling during the spring-summer-fall.


totally agree here!!

Offline beach bum

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2018, 02:25:32 pm »
Every time I throw out the idea of a 45 second shot clock just to make sure at least 4 shots are being taken in a 3 minute span most of the posters on here act like I just said the most radical thing they have ever heard..... That is why I say 45 seconds because how often does that even happen that it takes 45 seconds to take a shot? Pretty much only when a team is stalling and it would stop that.

Offline beach bum

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2018, 02:29:13 pm »
Whose paying to set up shot clock's in each school? I don't even think I can trust some English teacher running one of these in a game. I love the idea and it should be enforced but running a shot clock is tough for people who do it in NBA games sometimes. They have replay to fix it. High school won't.

I feel pretty confident I could even teach a 6 year old that every time the ball hit the rim to then press a button....

Offline SUGARTOWN

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2018, 02:33:53 pm »
the shot clock will do nothing but make games better.  Either way you need discipline and execution on offense.  HS tournaments who have it have been fun for the teams that participate, small and large.

Biggest obstacle for admin and ADs is buying the set up and getting someone to run the shot clock.
I also agree with Geno that women’s basketball should have a 9’ goal since women’s volleyball doesn’t play on the same high net as men, but too many folks would think it sacrilege and ADs wouldn’t want  I buy the adjustable goals

Nah, they already use a smaller basketball.

Offline SUGARTOWN

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2018, 02:35:11 pm »
I feel pretty confident I could even teach a 6 year old that every time the ball hit the rim to then press a button....

But what if it doesn't hit the rim?  :D

Offline beach bum

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2018, 02:37:21 pm »
But what if it doesn't hit the rim?  :D

Haha... Now then I could see them getting pretty flustered on air balls.

Offline HorseFeathers

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2018, 06:16:03 pm »
But what if it doesn't hit the rim?  :D

Add it to ref duties to make that signal to reset the clock...some already like being seen, give em a reason for someone to watch them lol

Offline Almatrackster

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #58 on: January 09, 2018, 09:09:38 pm »
There are talks of shot clock being implemented state wide. Isn't 7A using it in conference games this year? Or is that next year?

Some coaches, even the ones who like to stall, like the shot clock because it keeps the flow of the game going.

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #59 on: January 09, 2018, 10:58:20 pm »
Every time I throw out the idea of a 45 second shot clock just to make sure at least 4 shots are being taken in a 3 minute span most of the posters on here act like I just said the most radical thing they have ever heard..... That is why I say 45 seconds because how often does that even happen that it takes 45 seconds to take a shot? Pretty much only when a team is stalling and it would stop that.
I agree. 45 seconds would be perfect

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #60 on: January 09, 2018, 11:01:01 pm »
Nah, they already use a smaller basketball.
. Men’s volleyball nets are a foot higher than women’s, cause they are smart enough to know Women can’t jump as high to spike it.  How many more folks would watch women’s basketball games if there were legit chances of seeing dunks and more made shots?

Offline SouthpawSensation

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #61 on: January 10, 2018, 09:14:26 am »
There are talks of shot clock being implemented state wide. Isn't 7A using it in conference games this year? Or is that next year?

Some coaches, even the ones who like to stall, like the shot clock because it keeps the flow of the game going.
No shot clocks in 7A this year.

Offline SUGARTOWN

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #62 on: January 10, 2018, 09:18:26 am »
. Men’s volleyball nets are a foot higher than women’s, cause they are smart enough to know Women can’t jump as high to spike it.  How many more folks would watch women’s basketball games if there were legit chances of seeing dunks and more made shots?

More made shots are what the smaller balls are for. But to answer your question, Not too many IMO. I don't really watch basketball games just to see dunks. You could lower the goal to 9 feet and you still wouldn't see any dunks in Arkansas girls high school basketball.

But on the other topic, I agree, shot clocks should be added. As long we're all ok with them not being reset at the proper times at some places. Volunteers that know the rules are hard to find.


Offline ballmember

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #63 on: January 10, 2018, 10:59:24 am »
please no shot clocks.  takes much of the strategy away from the game, many schools depend on the kids they have and don't recruit therefore strategy and development in important.   You will really see some one sided games if this is implemented,  best talent wins.   Takes away from coaching and kids with lesser talent chance to participate.  I know some fans dont care , they just want to be entertained,but it is still about the kids at that school. 

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #64 on: January 10, 2018, 11:12:02 am »
please no shot clocks.  takes much of the strategy away from the game, many schools depend on the kids they have and don't recruit therefore strategy and development in important.   You will really see some one sided games if this is implemented,  best talent wins.   Takes away from coaching and kids with lesser talent chance to participate.  I know some fans dont care , they just want to be entertained,but it is still about the kids at that school. 
I can appreciate this POV for sure.
To play devils advocate, wouldn’t a 45 second shot clock force coaches to better themselves and their ability to develop a strategy to create a better offensive unit?  Honestly, I wonder if anyone has done a study on the average time of possession per possession, and better yet, the average for teams one would consider less talented?  Do weak teams really need two minutes per possession to increase their likelihood of making a basket?

Offline iRebound

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #65 on: January 10, 2018, 12:04:53 pm »
I know for fact that some coaches stall when the officiating gets so poor that they have to make the officials a non-factor to protect the lead and/or keep the win. Some officials aren't very good, let's face it. We've all seen it. I know those coaches stall to force officials to make calls because they become so obvious in a stall situation. Also, coaches stall to buy time to keep players in foul trouble protected. If you have the ball on offense, you're less likely to pick up a foul on defense.

There actually is a lot of strategy involved in a stall game. I agree that a shot clock would speed up the pace of the game, but with everything in life, when you add something, something else gets lost. For example, addition of the 3 point line has led to the demise of the mid range game. Just some food for thought. I'll attend games whether the goal gets moved to 9ft or a shot clock gets implemented.

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #66 on: January 10, 2018, 12:22:12 pm »
I know for fact that some coaches stall when the officiating gets so poor that they have to make the officials a non-factor to protect the lead and/or keep the win. Some officials aren't very good, let's face it. We've all seen it. I know those coaches stall to force officials to make calls because they become so obvious in a stall situation. Also, coaches stall to buy time to keep players in foul trouble protected. If you have the ball on offense, you're less likely to pick up a foul on defense.

There actually is a lot of strategy involved in a stall game. I agree that a shot clock would speed up the pace of the game, but with everything in life, when you add something, something else gets lost. For example, addition of the 3 point line has led to the demise of the mid range game. Just some food for thought. I'll attend games whether the goal gets moved to 9ft or a shot clock gets implemented.
  I like your arguments...
One thing that we have failed to acknowledge is the amount of ball handling skills that are required of most of the players on the floor when a stall game has been implemented.  I would argue that most possessions in HS basketball don't go past the 1 minute mark.  The ones that do, are orchestrated not only by a good coaching strategy, but are impossible w/o having a solid PG, and at least two more quality ball handlers.  So, when we use the argument that the Little Brothers of the Poor need more time to score... Well, they would have a hard time scoring in a brothel anyway.  lol
Of course we know coaches, especially in the small schools, who love a zone, walking the ball up, and keeping the score in the 30's.  I get why they like that and how it helps.  But, they are also comfortable with that.  Having to be innovative can expose one's inadequacies.  Ask a coach if he/she thinks that a 45 second shot clock would require them to develop a more creative offense, or if the sky would come falling down.
I've seen one game where true stall ball almost prevailed, and it was actually interesting as a 3rd party viewer.  Back when Lonoke boys had Wadoo and won state.  They played Clarksville when they had Caleb the amazing PG.  Score at halftime was like 8-6 or so, year state was at UofO in clarskville.  2nd half the horses for Lonoke broke the game open.
If you are outmatched, shot clock, no shot clock, you are outmatched no matter the offensive style.  But, we choose to play the game anyway because anything can happen.  I'm just saying if we had one around 45 seconds, a nice happy medium, it would be good in the long run.

Offline Almatrackster

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #67 on: January 10, 2018, 07:55:32 pm »
The problem I have with stall game are when teams know they get up on a team they don't have a good shot at beating so they go to stall game to optimize their chances.

I've seen a team get up 8 in the first half on Alma before years ago and go stall game the rest of the game. I thought it was a bit of a joke.

That being said, it's not pertinent to get a shot clock, but I like the idea.

Offline HorseFeathers

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #68 on: January 10, 2018, 09:08:47 pm »
The problem I have with stall game are when teams know they get up on a team they don't have a good shot at beating so they go to stall game to optimize their chances.

I've seen a team get up 8 in the first half on Alma before years ago and go stall game the rest of the game. I thought it was a bit of a joke.

That being said, it's not pertinent to get a shot clock, but I like the idea.

Did y'all come out and gaurd them? I see lots of times when the defense LETS them stall by standing out at half court...

Offline Almatrackster

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #69 on: January 10, 2018, 09:58:46 pm »
Did y'all come out and gaurd them? I see lots of times when the defense LETS them stall by standing out at half court...

Yes. Alma won the game.

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #70 on: January 11, 2018, 07:41:56 pm »
Keep in mind, even big time, nationally ranked and super athletic 7A teams will try to stall with 2 minutes left of a post season game... seen it many times, and it can go either way.

Offline Neckred

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #71 on: January 12, 2018, 09:53:28 am »
Well, you're certainly missing out.
No you aren't.  HS soccer in Arkansas is awful

Offline Neckred

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #72 on: January 12, 2018, 09:54:50 am »
I agree. 45 seconds would be perfect
45 seconds way too long.  30!

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #73 on: January 12, 2018, 10:28:18 am »
45 seconds way too long.  30!
I like it.  But in politics, there is this thing called compromise.  The better good for the majority and protection of the minority...

Offline Neckred

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #74 on: January 12, 2018, 10:33:52 am »
I like it.  But in politics, there is this thing called compromise.  The better good for the majority and protection of the minority...
I would say that over 90 percent of possessions already go under 45 seconds so what's the point

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #75 on: January 12, 2018, 11:33:59 am »
I would say that over 90 percent of possessions already go under 45 seconds so what's the point
You may be right

Offline nuttinbuthogs

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #76 on: January 12, 2018, 11:43:18 am »
the shot clock will do nothing but make games better.  Either way you need discipline and execution on offense.  HS tournaments who have it have been fun for the teams that participate, small and large.

Biggest obstacle for admin and ADs is buying the set up and getting someone to run the shot clock.
I also agree with Geno that women’s basketball should have a 9’ goal since women’s volleyball doesn’t play on the same high net as men, but too many folks would think it sacrilege and ADs wouldn’t want  I buy the adjustable goals

You cannot have a 9' goal for women, that would be discriminatory.  Shot clock might be good for fans but the fans aren't coaching the game. IMO.

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #77 on: January 12, 2018, 11:59:36 am »
You cannot have a 9' goal for women, that would be discriminatory.  Shot clock might be good for fans but the fans aren't coaching the game. IMO.
If your argument was based on legal interpretations, then I support making the dang Olympic committees, and NFHS, AAA, and pro women's volleyball all be forced to be equal to men and have their volleyball nets moved up a foot to the equal height to mens so that the women will no longer be discriminated against.  I'm telling you, Geno was dead on while he railed on the topic of making improvements to the game to keep it competitive.

How many girls today are playing volleyball, compared to 30 years ago?  Look, I am not saying that volleyball is of the devil.  But, it is easier, and with their lower than mens nets, they can more easily spike the ball, which is what makes the dang game fun for everyone.  Combine that with the fact you don't ever have to run and get into the kind of shape BB demands, and over the years there are more and more girls saying dang, BB is hard, VB is easier, and thus we have the rise of JO VB which is a racket not unlike AAU BB.

Thus, does anyone truly believe that if the girls goal in BB was down at 9', that they would not be able to score more points?  Are the girls naturally made equal in upper body strength by our Maker as men? So, which one is discriminatory?  Expecting females to physically perform at an equal athletic level as the males, or to make it more appropriate for their differences?  After all, if we are the same in our abilities, why not just play coed?

Offline nuttinbuthogs

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #78 on: January 12, 2018, 12:06:48 pm »
So then lets adjust the goal for teams that have lesser talent in mens games.  I think the game is fine and so many of the proposed rule changes are not needed but are more to please the fans.  I do understand that, I've sat through some boring games but if you start making the changes you need to start making lots of changes in all sports to make fans happy.  Look, the game is good with good players and with lesser players its not as good, men or women.   

Offline Ba$ketballFan54321

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #79 on: January 12, 2018, 12:08:43 pm »
The problem I have with stall game are when teams know they get up on a team they don't have a good shot at beating so they go to stall game to optimize their chances.

I've seen a team get up 8 in the first half on Alma before years ago and go stall game the rest of the game. I thought it was a bit of a joke.

That being said, it's not pertinent to get a shot clock, but I like the idea.

I also like the idea of a shot clock and think it will eventually be added to high school. As far as the stall game... sure it's boring and no one wants to watch a game like that.. but from a strategy perspective it's not a bad idea. Limiting the number of possessions when playing a stronger team does increase your chance to win. I agree that it's not pertinent and wouldn't make a huge difference overall, it is a cool idea. New strategy would come along with it.

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #80 on: January 12, 2018, 12:09:30 pm »
Keep in mind that folks like myself enjoy debate and arguing a point of view.  It's like sport. 

Also, I don't believe many of these perspectives some of us share will happen anytime soon, if ever.  There are too many committees that govern such issues that are more concerned with making more rules to make the game less fun and more boring.

However, some of these issues carry some food for thought.

How much do you love the game?   Are you willing to fight to keep the "purity" of the game?  Are you willing to dare bring new ideas that may inspire a new generation of kids to fall in love with the game?  I remember the 3 point line introduction when i was a kid watching Bird, Magic, Dr J, Barkley, Jordan, Stockton to Malone, etc, and thinking man, I'm so glad i'll get to shoot the 3 someday in HS. Man, if my mom had played her 6on6 hoops with a 3 point line, she would've scored so much more, etc.

What is it gonna be for the new generations that makes them fall in love with the game that I have loved since my momma got me my first basketball?  Having daughters, I'm afraid that by the time they get in jr and sr high, girls BB will be as important as VB was when my wife and I were growing up in small towns, and our favorite game made us want to skip Sunday night church to go play pick up games in the park or gym.  Instead, they are trying to turn VB into the girls equivilant of FB, and my girls will have to wear those dang skimpy outfits VB wears, and I will have to beat the crap out of the perverts staring and making comments to them after their matches.  ugh.  Sorry, I got on a rant there.

Offline nuttinbuthogs

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #81 on: January 12, 2018, 12:12:56 pm »
Coaches coach, fans watch, and complain.  I don't like the idea of taking certain strategies out of the hands of coaches.  If fans don't like it, go watch another team. The coach and the players should have the opportunity to use whatever pace is best for them to allow a chance to win.

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #82 on: January 12, 2018, 12:21:46 pm »
Coaches coach, fans watch, and complain.  I don't like the idea of taking certain strategies out of the hands of coaches.  If fans don't like it, go watch another team. The coach and the players should have the opportunity to use whatever pace is best for them to allow a chance to win.
i'd put $1,000 on it that the majority of arkansas HS coaches would say go for it.  Fans don't have a monopoly on complaining...

Offline nuttinbuthogs

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #83 on: January 12, 2018, 12:25:53 pm »
I'd put $2,000 on it that the teams at the bottom, that lose a lot of games, that don't have great talent would not be for it. 

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #84 on: January 12, 2018, 12:39:20 pm »
I'd put $2,000 on it that the teams at the bottom, that lose a lot of games, that don't have great talent would not be for it. 
lol  I love it!  Good post!  But, you know when you are really bad, sometimes you want mercy, mercy for your kids, and a quickening is good. lol

Offline nuttinbuthogs

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #85 on: January 12, 2018, 01:10:23 pm »
lol  I love it!  Good post!  But, you know when you are really bad, sometimes you want mercy, mercy for your kids, and a quickening is good. lol

Possibly so but good coaches can push the tempo without a shot clock.

Offline Neckred

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #86 on: January 12, 2018, 01:24:37 pm »
Coaches coach, fans watch, and complain.  I don't like the idea of taking certain strategies out of the hands of coaches.  If fans don't like it, go watch another team. The coach and the players should have the opportunity to use whatever pace is best for them to allow a chance to win.
ANd most coaches suck from what I've seen

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #87 on: January 12, 2018, 01:31:16 pm »
ANd most coaches suck from what I've seen
why don't you stop sugar coating it... lol  Lotta folks today don't know how to ask experienced, respected older coaches for critiques.  Constructive criticism is very helpful for coaches, and refs, and players, and our jobs, and our parenting, and my golf game

Offline nuttinbuthogs

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #88 on: January 12, 2018, 01:31:25 pm »
ANd most coaches suck from what I've seen

Possibly, but then that's opinion since there is no scoring method.  If you take more tools away from them they will get worse.

Offline Neckred

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #89 on: January 12, 2018, 01:39:10 pm »
Possibly, but then that's opinion since there is no scoring method.  If you take more tools away from them they will get worse.
The shot clock would help them suck less.  THen maybe they wouldnt think their plays were the best in the world and concentrate more on skill development. 

Offline beach bum

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #90 on: January 13, 2018, 01:34:30 pm »
Coaches coach, fans watch, and complain.  I don't like the idea of taking certain strategies out of the hands of coaches.  If fans don't like it, go watch another team. The coach and the players should have the opportunity to use whatever pace is best for them to allow a chance to win.

If you can't draw up a core set of plays to get a shot off in 45 seconds you stink as a coach...... How many dribbles and passes can happen in 45 seconds? A 45 second shot clock still allows you to play whatever pace you want to play. The 45 second clock would essentially just stop stalling. How often does someone even take 45 seconds when they aren't stalling? I am sure almost never. 45 seconds is way more time than needed. When you stall that isn't strategy. That is knowing you aren't as good and they might as well tell their players that cause the players are smart enough to know that is why they are stalling. You can still be a slow paced offense and get your shot off every single time in 45 seconds. I don't think anyone wants a 45 second shot clock to change strategy. Its to stop stalling which is not a strategy. It's knowing you aren't as good and admitting that to your players.

Offline beach bum

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #91 on: January 13, 2018, 01:35:14 pm »
The shot clock would help them suck less.  THen maybe they wouldnt think their plays were the best in the world and concentrate more on skill development.

Lol... Harsh but true.

Offline beach bum

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #92 on: January 13, 2018, 01:38:59 pm »
I would have never wanted to play for a coach that told us to stall.... I would question whether he trusted us and would never have wanted to play for a coach who held us back from competing. If you don't think you can win a game when you step on the court you will never upset a better team. You have already lost it mentally before the ball was even tipped off.

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #93 on: January 13, 2018, 02:04:35 pm »
I would have never wanted to play for a coach that told us to stall.... I would question whether he trusted us and would never have wanted to play for a coach who held us back from competing. If you don't think you can win a game when you step on the court you will never upset a better team. You have already lost it mentally before the ball was even tipped off.
good call

Offline OlGuyWicker

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #94 on: January 13, 2018, 05:21:24 pm »


I guess Dean Smith just didn't know what he was doing.  Coaches have an obligation to try to win within the rules.  If it is to a teams advantage to stall and possibly spread the other team out, the players should buy in.  Shorter quicker teams could use this tactic to open the floor up for driving.  Winning should be more important to a team then shooting and scoring. 

Offline Neckred

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #95 on: January 16, 2018, 08:34:30 am »
More made shots are what the smaller balls are for. But to answer your question, Not too many IMO. I don't really watch basketball games just to see dunks. You could lower the goal to 9 feet and you still wouldn't see any dunks in Arkansas girls high school basketball.

But on the other topic, I agree, shot clocks should be added. As long we're all ok with them not being reset at the proper times at some places. Volunteers that know the rules are hard to find.
Yes you would. 

Offline Neckred

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #96 on: January 16, 2018, 08:36:05 am »

I guess Dean Smith just didn't know what he was doing.  Coaches have an obligation to try to win within the rules.  If it is to a teams advantage to stall and possibly spread the other team out, the players should buy in.  Shorter quicker teams could use this tactic to open the floor up for driving.  Winning should be more important to a team then shooting and scoring.
Well the best player the world has ever seen didn't even average 20 ppg for him....

Offline HorseFeathers

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #97 on: January 16, 2018, 11:36:13 am »
Does scoring define greatness?

Offline Neckred

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #98 on: January 16, 2018, 12:28:10 pm »
Does scoring define greatness?
In basketball pretty much

Offline 4real

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Re: Changes to the AAA
« Reply #99 on: January 16, 2018, 02:02:02 pm »
In basketball pretty much
Unless you are a Dennis Rodman, Bill Russell, John Stockton, Steve Nash

 

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