1A Region 4 at Emerson

[Bigbird2012]

you are correct but I am not saying he was being biased to Kirby in any way, shape, or form 

[JP]

The Crew Chief assigns games at the Tournament.  He selects the best referees to call the Championship Gsmes.  In the boys case, he selected those three,

I wonder if the Crew Chief is also from Kirby?? That would make a lot of sense as to why the officials are selected for certain games. 

I'm not saying that officiating has ever cost a team a win at Kirby but I don't know anybody from this area that thinks they get a fair game called when they play at Kirby.  A lot has to do with the relatives or alumni calling the game.  The one time we played there this year, I think only 1 ref had the Kirby connection.  I do my fair share of yelling at the refs when I don't agree with a call but our game at Kirby was the only game I made a butt out of myself because of the officiating.
I know that for every game, one side (and sometimes both sides) think the officials just stink.  I may not agree with a call but I can usually understand why a certain call was made the way it was.  Not always the case at Kirby.

This will be interesting to see who refs what games and if the officiating is consistent.  There are a few I will be praying does not ref any of our games nor any of the big games being played. 

[PuddlePirate12]

that makes so much sense. Hire the best crew even if 2 of them are from the home town that one of the teams there are. I may be wrong but I am almost certain that last year during regionals at Cossatot in the Emerson/ Kirby game one of the refs was the same one that was at Emerson last night calling. and No I am NOT saying he cheated for Kirby just making a comment so PLEASE everybody stay calm. 

Am I correct, I was told, that possibly this same ref was the one that made two quick foul calls on #20 from Emerson?

That's the one! He knew what he was doing! But Emerson superintendent is on AAA board and let them know he knew they were cheating for Kirby (it was obvious) and the calls in the second half were fair for both teams

[JP]

that makes so much sense. Hire the best crew even if 2 of them are from the home town that one of the teams there are. I may be wrong but I am almost certain that last year during regionals at Cossatot in the Emerson/ Kirby game one of the refs was the same one that was at Emerson last night calling. and No I am NOT saying he cheated for Kirby just making a comment so PLEASE everybody stay calm. 

Am I correct, I was told, that possibly this same ref was the one that made two quick foul calls on #20 from Emerson?

That's the one! He knew what he was doing! But Emerson superintendent is on AAA board and let them know he knew they were cheating for Kirby (it was obvious) and the calls in the second half were fair for both teams

+1  Hope your Super is also at Nashville...

[Ole Man River]

Are you kidding!!!! There was not one referee there that would cheat for any team.  That just shows how intelligent you really are.  Fans don't look at all the missed free throws or lay-ups a team misses thru out the game.  These guys officiate college basketball and the money is way more than a 1A Regional.  They call high school because they love the game.  But because of people like you JP, these high school games lose good referees because they don't want to deal with ignorant fans.

[NEArkie]

it was a very physical game. #24 from Emerson went up and came down pretty hard on the floor and messed up his arm, however the refs only missed 3 or 4 fouls right in front of them before Jackson finally hit the floor. He sat out for a minute or 2 before half time and then came back out and played but seemed to be in pain the whole time. I'm not sure how true it is but I heard SEVERAL people saying before the game even started that 1 of the refs graduated from Kirby and another had kids at Kirby and his mother or mother-in-law was the lady on the bench keeping stats for Kirby. Now if this is true I'm not sure. Emerson and Kirby both played hard. If Kirby makes it past Nemo and the 2nd round and meet up with Bay, Bay could have a hard time getting past them especially with them being the hosts of the tournament.

Just got word that Bays coach is bringing his own refs ...they are his father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommates....

[#1kirbytrojanfan]

Lord have mercy.... some of you folks dont even have clue. Whos team fouled out 2-3 players???  Not Emerson... there are times that calling was good on both sides and bad on both sides. The player that got hurt (called accident) is part of basketball. We have a girl on our team that has a buried chest from the game also and didnt get a foul called for her either. They cant make every call and I am one yelling fan also. Just pray for all these teams going into this week for safe travels and injury free good basketball. Good luck to all teams this week. GO TROJANS

[Backboard Shattered]

I smell some cheatification.  Where and how and who wants me?  I'm the law! 

[JP]

Are you kidding!!!! There was not one referee there that would cheat for any team.  That just shows have intelligent you really are.  Fans don't look at all the missed free throws or lay-ups a team misses thru out the game.  These guys officiate college basketball and the money is way more than a 1A Regional.  They call high school because they love the game.  But because of people like you JP, these high school games lose good referees because they don't want to deal with ignorant fans.

I'm just having a little fun.  Don't get too worked up about it.  I don't think I've ran anybody out of officiating and I've never been ejected from a game.  There is only one game I've ever seen where I thought the officiating determined the outcome of the game and the calling was not for one team or the other, it was just terrible officiating.  That game was 4 or 5 years ago, nothing recent.  Those refs were not from this area and I hope they don't make it to this tournament.
I would hate to think that a ref would purposely call for one team over another and I have never known this to happen.  However, I have heard of it happening (I know, just hearsay and no proof).  Like I said earlier, at just about every game, one side of the fans think they got cheated. 
I don't know who your two friends are but if they are not from Kirby, then I'm probably not talking about them.  I don't always feel that the refs from Kirby do a bad job.  I do stand by my statement that most fans from the schools in this area feel the officiating at Kirby is one sided.  This doesn't mean that the officiating cost anybody a win.  Again, only 1 game I've seen I feel was determined by the officiating.
As far as the jab about the Crew Chief being from Kirby, that was just a jab and not serious talk. 
As far as your statement about fans not seeing or remembering all the missed layups and free throws, I agree.  That's not my ignorance because I do see it.  Most people (fans) only remember what they feel cost their team the game and its not the errors the players made but the errors in the officiating.
If the officiating is good, I'll be the first to commend them on the job they do and hope the tournament is well officiated.  Referring back to some of the earlier posts, refs should not be allowed to call for a game where they have any kind of affiliation with one of the teams playing.  If the refs really care about the game and love the game, I don't think they would put themselves in that situation. 
Regardless of what you think of me or my opinions, I appreciate people who take the time to get yelled at, talked about, put down, and ridiculed.  If not for these folks, we would not have any refs to allow these kids to play.  And I LOVE watching these kids play.  My girl is a senior this year, my youngest, so my kiddos are done.  I plan on being at the state tournament next year also.  I have just developed a passion for 1A basketball. 

[JP]

Lord have mercy.... some of you folks dont even have clue. Whos team fouled out 2-3 players???  Not Emerson... there are times that calling was good on both sides and bad on both sides. The player that got hurt (called accident) is part of basketball. We have a girl on our team that has a buried chest from the game also and didnt get a foul called for her either. They cant make every call and I am one yelling fan also. Just pray for all these teams going into this week for safe travels and injury free good basketball. Good luck to all teams this week. GO TROJANS

+1  usually works that way.  Hate that I missed the finals at Emerson.  Sounded like one heck of a game.  Hoping that the weather holds for all to have safe travel and some great basketball.

[PuddlePirate12]

Lord have mercy.... some of you folks dont even have clue. Whos team fouled out 2-3 players???  Not Emerson... there are times that calling was good on both sides and bad on both sides. The player that got hurt (called accident) is part of basketball. We have a girl on our team that has a buried chest from the game also and didnt get a foul called for her either. They cant make every call and I am one yelling fan also. Just pray for all these teams going into this week for safe travels and injury free good basketball. Good luck to all teams this week. GO TROJANS

Who's star player had 2 fouls in 20 seconds? Not Kirby's. One was when a kid flopped because Revels posted up like a man and got called for a charge or something stupid and 3 seconds later he got called for reaching when the PG crossed half court dribbling with his knees. The difference between Emerson and Kirby is Emerson adjusted to the calls. Kirby kept fouling. Revels didn't get another foul until after half time and atleast one other player from Emerson had 4. In my eyes it was an evenly called game besides the first twenty seconds but with someone as aggressive as revels, 2 quick fouls can really slow you down. Like I said, that ref knew what he was doing! Wasn't the first time he saw revels play

[Backboard Shattered]

Give me the film somebody getting bannification for this

[Backboard Shattered]

There may be some ramifications if I see some cheatifications on any shanigigans that may lead to some banifications. 

[PuddlePirate12]

Hey freemoney the freedom of speech applies here! Just messing lol. But you said get a key player get hurt still playing up 40.. Emerson's starters don't play up 40. Soon as the lead hits 30 and the clock is running they come out. A lot of times they won't play the entire fourth quarter and only half the 3rd.. Is karma still gone get me??

[ch2234]

I know for a fact that none of the 3 referees graduated from Kirby. The referee you are talking about did not graduate from Kirby, and his kids go to Lake Hamilton where his wife teaches, not Kirby.  None of the 3 referees have kids that attend at Kirby. 

[PuddlePirate12]

I know for a fact that none of the 3 referees graduated from Kirby. The referee you are talking about did not graduate from Kirby, and his kids go to Lake Hamilton where his wife teaches, not Kirby.  None of the 3 referees have kids that attend at Kirby.

I'll take your word for it. I don't care Emerson won even playing against the refs

[sideliner]

Wow. The finals were called consistently inconsistent for both sides. Both sides were complaining... and for visible reasons. It's interesting to hear the same complaint from two sides.

Bottom line: Emerson played outstanding! They outplayed Kirby, plain and simple, especially in the second half. Imo, they are two of the best three Class A teams in the state. Any given night...

At any rate, both or either has a job to do with Bay.  Watched them play yesterday at state. They are very disciplined, great defensive team and are def the team to beat. The finals should be a thriller!

[ch2234]

I agree sideliner.  Both are very good teams.  Kirby played Emerson at Emerson within 4 earlier in the season and won by 4 at Kirby.  I don't see how officials are being debated in any of the games.  I saw all 3 games and thought it was great basketball.  I don't get why every game has to be about the officials.  Both sides get some calls no matter where you are playing.  There are those isolated games in every single gymnasium in the state where a team gets some home calls, but usually the team winning is the team playing their butts off on the court with a coach doing the same.  Looking forward to some great basketball at Nashville.  Last night was a great start.  Hoping the weather clears out and we can get the tournament going. Kirby and Emerson are both fun to watch!

[sideliner]

I truly believe on any given night, the state champ could be any of the three. Personally, I am hoping it's a Region 4 team.

[WPWells]

Don't overlook Scranton

[baller5]

I think you guys need to slow down a little. There is way to many games to have either one of these teams playing bay. They haven't even played first round.

[bball101]

After the way some of the games played out yesterday, I'm thinking Region 4 will be tough and Scranton will be lucky to get past Kirby.

[sideliner]

Scranton impressed me last night. Thinking it will all come down to the players who aren't the at-will scorers. Emerson did a good job of stopping Kirby's impact players Saturday night. Siebenmorgan (sp) coudn't be stopped last night but if someone did, the others players will have to really roll. Same with Acorn. Sky Jackson is an outstanding player but if you shut him down, Acorn slows. This may be the tournament of the other 3-4 players.

[PuddlePirate12]

Wow. The finals were called consistently inconsistent for both sides. Both sides were complaining... and for visible reasons. It's interesting to hear the same complaint from two sides.

Bottom line: Emerson played outstanding! They outplayed Kirby, plain and simple, especially in the second half. Imo, they are two of the best three Class A teams in the state. Any given night...

At any rate, both or either has a job to do with Bay.  Watched them play yesterday at state. They are very disciplined, great defensive team and are def the team to beat. The finals should be a thriller!

I said before the refs were fair after the first 20 seconds when they put two cheap ones on revels. But he's a disciplined player he can have 3 or 4 and still play and be effective.

[sideliner]

They did handle the foul pressure better, for sure. They played a tight defense also. If they play defense the next week like they did Sat. night, I think they'll roll through state. Just after one day of watching tournaments in both places, the state refs are not letting the players kill each other. So far they are much more consistent on safety. I appreciate that.

[XFalkonz]

Easy JP on OMR....he has feelings as well. If OMR is who I think he is then he really shouldn't get too upset. It isn't like this was Spring Hill softball and the stat man for Spring Hill is behind the plate for them. Hahahah and JP we have known each other for a loooong time I think

[JP]

I thought the officiating for Tuesday's games were pretty good.  The only call I completely didn't like was a foul on a breakaway that I thought should have been called intentional (offensive player had a clear path to the basket when the defensive player grabbed his jersey).  The ref may have called a foul as the offensive player was going past also but I didn't see it until he was past the defender.  I think to clear up my final thoughts on this officiating matter.  The perception is there and has been about certain officials calling games for Kirby.  The games I've seen, the officiating has not determined the outcome but you still get upset as a player and a fan when it seems to be one sided.  There are a few refs that if they wind up calling the Kirby games during this tournament will most probably result in more posts either berating them or defending them.  I hope the decision maker on refs for this tournament makes good decisions on his/her assignments to eliminate any possibility of controversy over this.  Its been a great tournament so far and looking forward to a lot of great games in the next few days.
My last note is to the black female ref for the 1st game on Tuesday.  She also officiated some at Emerson and I think she does a terrific job. Glad to see her at the tournament.

[PuddlePirate12]

I thought the officiating for Tuesday's games were pretty good.  The only call I completely didn't like was a foul on a breakaway that I thought should have been called intentional (offensive player had a clear path to the basket when the defensive player grabbed his jersey).  The ref may have called a foul as the offensive player was going past also but I didn't see it until he was past the defender.  I think to clear up my final thoughts on this officiating matter.  The perception is there and has been about certain officials calling games for Kirby.  The games I've seen, the officiating has not determined the outcome but you still get upset as a player and a fan when it seems to be one sided.  There are a few refs that if they wind up calling the Kirby games during this tournament will most probably result in more posts either berating them or defending them.  I hope the decision maker on refs for this tournament makes good decisions on his/her assignments to eliminate any possibility of controversy over this.  Its been a great tournament so far and looking forward to a lot of great games in the next few days.
My last note is to the black female ref for the 1st game on Tuesday.  She also officiated some at Emerson and I think she does a terrific job. Glad to see her at the tournament.

She's done a few Emerson games this year. She's pretty good. Usually doesn't call anything unless it's obvious and she doesn't seem to favor anyone. I can't think of a bad call I remember her making either way. I'm sure she has.. Everyone will eventually. If Kirby happens to meet Bay in the semi finals with the right refs they could beat them. Put two quick ones on Watson.. That would prolly result in a tech.. That's 3.. Now he's out to halftime lol. But I doubt that will happen.

[bball101]

Wait a minute. Refs don't determine the outcome of games!!

[PuddlePirate12]

Wait a minute. Refs don't determine the outcome of games!!

Then why have them? If they don't affect the game you can play without them

[hasbeen25]

I know that AAA is hard to deal with but I think enough people are fed up with the ref system that changes could happen. I like some of the things one state has done. Basically there is a state association of officials and then they are divided into groups of certified referees, and for district coaches must agree on a group of refs. For games beyond that (regionals and state) the refs must be certified and in good standing (oh yea, coaches, and only coaches, get to fill out performance reports after every game, and they have committees who review and investigate these) and the group used for these competitions can not be the groups that either team is associated with (normally refs home games). Also if schools wont agree on a group by the deadline, they simply don't get to play. -- I think this would be a great idea, cause how can you really complain about refs that you agreed to use, and also allows for completely different refs for district through state so there is less favoritism. Also the performance reports makes the refs more accountable, and actually letting these kids (maybe) have a fair chance!

[yesteryearman]

In my simple mind, why have a ref with any tie to a school ref that school's game?  Simple....removes all doubt, because, in the heat of the moment, if a tough call has to be made would human nature kick in, and swing that call to the "home team"  At this point in the season, as hard as all of these kids have worked, to lose a game in that situation would be hard to take.   Not saying that that call determined the outcome of the game, but again, don't put refs or kids in that situation.

Kirby vs Bay, final seconds, tough call to be made....which refs would Kirby want on the floor?

[PuddlePirate12]

Emerson refs.. They know what they're doing  jk but if any refs feel the way some people on here do about bay... Uh oh

[Backboard Shattered]

I feel a cheatification ban hammer about to be dropped

[PuddlePirate12]

I feel a cheatification ban hammer about to be dropped

Drop it then

[Moonshiner]

Emerson refs.. They know what they're doing  jk but if any refs feel the way some people on here do about bay... Uh oh

Interesting thread on this very thing on the 7A board.  Looks like some refs up in NWA are being accused by a parent of targeting Harber