School board just approved the hire. Excited to have him leading the Badgers.
sounds like a good hire.
I know he is the OC of Alma. How long had he been the OC there and where else had he been an OC or head coach?
He GA'd for Todd Graham at Tulsa when Mike Norvell and Chad Morris were there, then he went to GCT as OC before moving on to Alma in the same capacity. He has been at Alma for 5 years I would guess.
Either way, thankfully the days of the Dead T are over at Beebe.
A lot of people wanted Drake and will complain that they didn't hire him but they should get on board with this hire. I wanted Drake, but I know Beebe is in good hands with Chris, just like they would have been with Drake. Both are high character guys and the difference will be like night and day around the program.
Quote from: beebefootballfan on January 22, 2019, 10:33:40 am
Either way, thankfully the days of the Dead T are over at Beebe.
A lot of schools think this way until the product on the field isn't what you think it will be in a spread
Quote from: i40traveler on January 22, 2019, 10:37:05 am
A lot of schools think this way until the product on the field isn't what you think it will be in a spread
IMO...if you're not good in the Wing T/Dead T/I Formation/etc, you are not going to be very good in the spread either. At least not right away. Hope they give him time to install his system. May take a few years to have it running efficiently.
You guys have an offensive genius. He'll do well if given the support. Congratulations Beebe.
He's been at Alma since 2012, I believe. It was Coach Dilbeck's last year.
A few things about him:
Coach Lock has some years put his best players on D and Coach Gunter worked with what he had to still have some high powered offenses.
Alma scoring 30 a game in 5A play was usually the norm and honestly Gunter and Lock liked to ground it out if they had a lead to kill time.
Some years Coach Lock put some of his best playmakers on offense and defense and those years were when our offenses were extraordinary. 2017 and 2016 come to mind.
Even in the 6A years, Coach Gunter did well with what he had.
He can read a defense and come up with a play to expose that particular defense on the field about as well as any coach can.
Good luck to Chris.
Also Coach Gunter isn't "Spread". He's multiple packages. He has ran a game where he didn't run out of the same formation twice. He will work with what he has.
Quote from: Almatrackster on January 22, 2019, 11:05:35 am
You guys have an offensive genius. He'll do well if given the support. Congratulations Beebe.
He's been at Alma since 2012, I believe. It was Coach Dilbeck's last year.
A few things about him:
Coach Lock has some years put his best players on D and Coach Gunter worked with what he had to still have some high powered offenses.
Alma scoring 30 a game in 5A play was usually the norm and honestly Gunter and Lock liked to ground it out if they had a lead to kill time.
Some years Coach Lock put some of his best playmakers on offense and defense and those years were when our offenses were extraordinary. 2017 and 2016 come to mind.
Even in the 6A years, Coach Gunter did well with what he had.
He can read a defense and come up with a play to expose that particular defense on the field about as well as any coach can.
Good luck to Chris.
Sounds like Beebe got em a good one.
Chris has all the support he will ever need and is well connected in Beebe. Like Alma said, don't expect the spread, go watch their game film from this year on Youtube. He mixes it up.
I don't expect a magic change overnight by any means, but I am excited to have a coach who will have options depending on the situation he is in and his team will at least have some ability to execute those options. Beebe hasn't had a decent passing attack in a decade and its cost them dearly. I don't expect air raid but being able to throw when you need to is a big help.
I also hope to get some quality play on the defensive side of the ball. I think that is what ended up being Shannon's Achilles heel. Those early years he fielded some teams that had a good enough defense to work with a slow grinding offense, but over the last few years we haven't had been able to do that. Look at any game over the last 5 years. If we gave up 21 pts or more its was almost always a L. The only exception was 2014 when there was a potent enough offense to make up for it and we won a bunch of 49-48 type shootouts.
Quote from: OB11 on January 22, 2019, 10:41:26 am
IMO...if you're not good in the Wing T/Dead T/I Formation/etc, you are not going to be very good in the spread either. At least not right away. Hope they give him time to install his system. May take a few years to have it running efficiently.
I agree but sometimes more kids will play for a spread coach.
Quote from: Oldman on January 22, 2019, 02:34:04 pm
I agree but sometimes more kids will play for a spread coach.
Very true. Wish it wasn't that way. I enjoy watching a good ground and pound team just as much as a team that spreads it out when it is run effectively. What bothers me is when a team tries to run the ground and pound offenses and can't execute.
Quote from: OB11 on January 22, 2019, 02:49:45 pm
Very true. Wish it wasn't that way. I enjoy watching a good ground and pound team just as much as a team that spreads it out when it is run effectively. What bothers me is when a team tries to run the ground and pound offenses and can't execute.
I like winning
Gotta have the strength for dead t - or speed for spread. Does Beebe have it? Also, their division of football at the moment doesn't matter. It's PA, LRC and everyone else hoping for a 3-4 spot.
I worked with him at Greene County Tech back 5 or so years ago. He knows his stuff and the kids loved him. Great guy too. Good hire for the Badgers.
Quote from: purpleswag on January 22, 2019, 04:01:58 pm
Are you saying the dead t can't win?
[/quote
He is saying it doesn't matter what offense you run....run what helps you win.
Any ideas on new alma oc?
Nothing wrong with being a grind it out offense. Look at Gosnell in 4A up until 2012 under Brian Sims who is now at Greenwood. Double wing, toss the ball left or right behind the tackle and pull the backside guard and tackle. Heck we only had 10 plays in our playbook but we averaged over 48 points a game and were usually the top 1-2 team in the conference.
Now, I know the 5A overall but especially the 5A central is a whole different animal. I do know Beebe has around 15 different kids that won't play sports due to to the system that has been in place. Most of these 15 are big, tall, athletic kids who could drastically change the look of the Badger program. I hope Coach Gunter can get these boys out of the hallways and onto the field!
Quote from: TrenchHogs on January 23, 2019, 08:36:25 am
Nothing wrong with being a grind it out offense. Look at Gosnell in 4A up until 2012 under Brian Sims who is now at Greenwood. Double wing, toss the ball left or right behind the tackle and pull the backside guard and tackle. Heck we only had 10 plays in our playbook but we averaged over 48 points a game and were usually the top 1-2 team in the conference.
Now, I know the 5A overall but especially the 5A central is a whole different animal. I do know Beebe has around 15 different kids that won't play sports due to to the system that has been in place. Most of these 15 are big, tall, athletic kids who could drastically change the look of the Badger program. I hope Coach Gunter can get these boys out of the hallways and onto the field!
If they wouldn't play because of a system its because they didn't want to play and they were using it as an excuse.
If you want to play football you will play in any system.
Quote from: purpleswag on January 23, 2019, 09:16:48 am
If they wouldn't play because of a system its because they didn't want to play and they were using it as an excuse.
If you want to play football you will play in any system.
I tend to agree with this. Never understood the reasoning behind not playing because of the system. Chances are, the same 4 guys that will touch the ball in one system, are the same ones that will touch it in another.
And if a receiver thinks because since you're running the spread that you don't have to block, guess again. Getting blocks from your receivers is obviously much more important in the spread than in an offense based between the tackles. More often than not, if a receiver can't block, they don't see the field in the spread.
Quote from: TrenchHogs on January 23, 2019, 08:36:25 am
I do know Beebe has around 15 different kids that won't play sports due to to the system that has been in place. Most of these 15 are big, tall, athletic kids who could drastically change the look of the Badger program. I hope Coach Gunter can get these boys out of the hallways and onto the field!
There's a chance you're clueless if you think theres 15. Maybe one or two but you obviously don't know Beebe very well.
Quote from: TrenchHogs on January 23, 2019, 08:36:25 am
Nothing wrong with being a grind it out offense. Look at Gosnell in 4A up until 2012 under Brian Sims who is now at Greenwood. Double wing, toss the ball left or right behind the tackle and pull the backside guard and tackle. Heck we only had 10 plays in our playbook but we averaged over 48 points a game and were usually the top 1-2 team in the conference.
Now, I know the 5A overall but especially the 5A central is a whole different animal. I do know Beebe has around 15 different kids that won't play sports due to to the system that has been in place. Most of these 15 are big, tall, athletic kids who could drastically change the look of the Badger program. I hope Coach Gunter can get these boys out of the hallways and onto the field!
Do those 15 not play basketball either because they don't run and gun?
Quote from: gcsdad on January 23, 2019, 10:12:44 am
There's a chance you're clueless if you think theres 15. Maybe one or two but you obviously don't know Beebe very well.
I see them every day.... Beebe has plenty of big kids that don't play. The reason? Who knows.
Quote from: pick_DA_EAGLES on January 23, 2019, 11:26:43 am
Do those 15 not play basketball either because they don't run and gun?
Some have chosen other things like ROTC and band.... some don't play sports at all.... who really knows why they won't play. I agree with the post earlier that its just an excuse. Some have said they didn't like Shannon, others they wanted to open the field up and throw the ball.
Quote from: TrenchHogs on January 23, 2019, 02:34:05 pm
I see them every day.... Beebe has plenty of big kids that don't play. The reason? Who knows.
This phenomena is not exclusive to Beebe.
I work in the district.....
Who were the finalists for the job?
Quote from: TrenchHogs on January 24, 2019, 08:59:27 am
I work in the district.....
While I suspect you were replying to GCSDad, just to be clear TrenchHogs, my statement was meant more as an overall observation. Many schools are experiencing a declining interest in sports these days and while we may never know the exact reason(s) causing this, one factor that certainly contributes to this is the all too common attitude found in far too many kids these days.
"If something is not exactly the way I want it, and it won't change for me then I'll spend my time elsewhere" mentality is producing more kids for which work is a foreign concept.
Whether it is Beebe or Bauxite, Benton or Bentonville I'm sure every school has students who choose not to play as a result of thinking like this.
Quote from: sevenof400 on January 24, 2019, 09:05:19 am
While I suspect you were replying to GCSDad, just to be clear TrenchHogs, my statement was meant more as an overall observation. Many schools are experiencing a declining interest in sports these days and while we may never know the exact reason(s) causing this, one factor that certainly contributes to this is the all too common attitude found in far too many kids these days.
"If something is not exactly the way I want it, and it won't change for me then I'll spend my time elsewhere" mentality is producing more kids for which work is a foreign concept.
Whether it is Beebe or Bauxite, Benton or Bentonville I'm sure every school has students who choose not to play as a result of thinking like this.
I agree with that. Very well said. That tends to be very accurate pertaining to Beebe right now....
Any ideas as to who will take the OC duties at Alma with his departure?
Congrats to BB! I look forward to them fielding very competitive teams year in and year out. Should make the rivalries with GB and V even more exciting.
Charleston HC Greg Kendrick will be headed to Alma to take over as the OC ...
The above is not just speculation. But not completely official. All but it, though
Quote from: CapnObvious on January 31, 2019, 07:18:20 am
Charleston HC Greg Kendrick will be headed to Alma to take over as the OC ...
How long has he been at Charleston?
He's been at Charleston as an OC before head coach for awhile under Coach Loughridge. He was head coach after Coach Lock headed to Alma, which was the 2013 football season.
Any Alma assistant joining Gunter?
Quote from: Pat Swilling on February 02, 2019, 08:36:49 am
Any Alma assistant joining Gunter?
They have to dilly with Vilonia first....no one on that pipeline.....yet. ;D
The worst thing about the new OC in Alma was that it didn't happen last year. The former OC cost the team several games. Glad to have a good coach in Alma leading the offense.
Quote from: Airedale90 on February 02, 2019, 08:59:56 am
The worst thing about the new OC in Alma was that it didn't happen last year. The former OC cost the team several games. Glad to have a good coach in Alma leading the offense.
Sorry to say, but this is just ignorant. He won us a lot more games with his play calling than he ever lost.
Just looking at all the wasted talent last few years. It's tough to be honest but he wasn't a very good people person and there are no kids crying. He had a good offensive mind but lost the respect of players and coaches by how he treated them. You my friend may be the ignorant one.
Quote from: Airedale90 on February 02, 2019, 04:05:23 pm
Just looking at all the wasted talent last few years. It's tough to be honest but he wasn't a very good people person and there are no kids crying. He had a good offensive mind but lost the respect of players and coaches by how he treated them. You my friend may be the ignorant one.
The results he produced on the offensive end were unmatched in the history of Alma. The numbers and results are there. Offense won many games. I'm not sure what you mean by "wasted talent". How did he waste it? You seem to have an agenda.
Quote from: Airedale90 on February 02, 2019, 04:05:23 pm
Just looking at all the wasted talent last few years. It's tough to be honest but he wasn't a very good people person and there are no kids crying. He had a good offensive mind but lost the respect of players and coaches by how he treated them. You my friend may be the ignorant one.
I'm just going to suggest something here - do with this advice what you will.
Check out the attached image.
While we all can appreciate a good give and take around here, you might want to consider the kind of entrance you made is going to impress people in some not-so desired ways. State your facts, give your reasons - there is seldom ever 100% agreement around here on anything, but the kind of unsubstantiated stuff you're throwing around here is akin to piddling on the neighbors lawn.
Quote from: sevenof400 on February 02, 2019, 08:49:22 pm
I'm just going to suggest something here - do with this advice what you will.
Check out the attached image.
While we all can appreciate a good give and take around here, you might want to consider the kind of entrance you made is going to impress people in some not-so desired ways. State your facts, give your reasons - there is seldom ever 100% agreement around here on anything, but the kind of unsubstantiated stuff you're throwing around here is akin to piddling on the neighbors lawn.
Seven, you do have a way with words. Touché.
It's not unsubstantiated when you talk with student athletes and their families. When you work with them and live in the community and know what's going on it's not unsubstantiated at all. Maybe you should get out and find out the information of what's going on instead of counting how many posts I've made. I may not make Many posts but those I have made are true. Couple of facts you asked for Alma has won 12 games in two years with lots of records on offense but not too many wins. So while there were great offensive numbers last finals appearance was 20 years ago.
But Chris Gunter was in charge of the offense.
Quote from: Almatrackster on February 05, 2019, 11:42:41 am
But Chris Gunter was in charge of the offense.
Shoulda scored more points.
Quote from: Airedale90 on February 05, 2019, 10:29:35 am
It's not unsubstantiated when you talk with student athletes and their families. When you work with them and live in the community and know what's going on it's not unsubstantiated at all. Maybe you should get out and find out the information of what's going on instead of counting how many posts I've made. I may not make Many posts but those I have made are true. Couple of facts you asked for Alma has won 12 games in two years with lots of records on offense but not too many wins. So while there were great offensive numbers last finals appearance was 20 years ago.
With your 'facts' still undisclosed, we have no way of verifying them to determine 'truth or bias'. And with a scant posting history, we have very little else to judge your posts on. Is post count the only thing that matters - certainly not - but as a newcomer to these parts, assertions in the form you have offered here do not help your position.
Quote from: sevenof400 on February 05, 2019, 01:19:37 pm
With your 'facts' still undisclosed, we have no way of verifying them to determine 'truth or bias'. And with a scant posting history, we have very little else to judge your posts on. Is post count the only thing that matters - certainly not - but as a newcomer to these parts, assertions in the form you have offered here do not help your position.
I read three facts in his post. So....now what? Where are your facts?
Quote from: incogneto on February 06, 2019, 08:03:56 am
I read three facts in his post. So....now what? Where are your facts?
Show me the 'facts' in his post...
Quote from: Airedale90 on February 05, 2019, 10:29:35 amIt's not unsubstantiated when you talk with student athletes and their families. When you work with them and live in the community and know what's going on it's not unsubstantiated at all. ..
Unsubstantiated.
Quote from: Airedale90 on February 05, 2019, 10:29:35 amMaybe you should get out and find out the information of what's going on instead of counting how many posts I've made.
Terribly helpful.
Quote from: Airedale90 on February 05, 2019, 10:29:35 am Couple of facts you asked for Alma has won 12 games in two years with lots of records on offense but not too many wins. So while there were great offensive numbers last finals appearance was 20 years ago.
Nothing here on point with Airedale90's position.
Quote from: Airedale90 on February 02, 2019, 04:05:23 pm
Just looking at all the wasted talent last few years. It's tough to be honest but he wasn't a very good people person and there are no kids crying. He had a good offensive mind but lost the respect of players and coaches by how he treated them. You my friend may be the ignorant one.
His personality must have done a complete 180 from when he was at Greene County Tech. The kids absolutely loved him. Their numbers grew like crazy while he was there. They were torn up when he left.
Quote from: sevenof400 on February 06, 2019, 09:17:34 am
Show me the 'facts' in his post...
Unsubstantiated.
Terribly helpful.
Nothing here on point with Airedale90's position.
Nice deflection. You are being obtuse if you cannot see his facts or you simply aren't smart enough to know the definition of a fact. Where are your facts again chief? Or do you want to act like talking on a message board more counts for something again?
Quote from: incogneto on February 06, 2019, 08:05:32 pm
Nice deflection. You are being obtuse if you cannot see his facts or you simply aren't smart enough to know the definition of a fact. Where are your facts again chief? Or do you want to act like talking on a message board more counts for something again?
Show me a fact in his post that substantiates his claim.
I'm still waiting.
And it appears I might be for quite some time.
Quote from: sevenof400 on February 06, 2019, 10:07:49 pm
Show me a fact in his post that substantiates his claim.
I'm still waiting.
And it appears I might be for quite some time.
Oh yeah you will be if you expect me to to teach you reading comprehension. Hold your breath.
Quote from: incogneto on February 07, 2019, 07:42:21 am
Oh yeah you will be if you expect me to to teach you reading comprehension. Hold your breath.
Comprehend / interpret this:
Quote from: Airedale90 on February 05, 2019, 10:29:35 am...It's not unsubstantiated when you talk with student athletes and their families. When you work with them and live in the community and know what's going on it's not unsubstantiated at all...
Show me the 'fact' there.
If Airedale90 believes the coach ran the wrong type of offense, had people in the wrong positions, placed too much / too little emphasis on the weight program, then he should say so.
Petty gossip (and the support of it) paints an unflattering picture of the person presenting it - and those who support it.
Uh. Can y'all drop it?
So, without reading the posts I can gather....
Gunter can score some points.
Alma Lost to Van Buren.
People are upset because he left them/happy he's gone.
The state weight meet oughta be awesome.
Quote from: we_hate_the_band on February 07, 2019, 10:28:08 am
So, without reading the posts I can gather....
Gunter can score some points.
Alma Lost to Van Buren.
People are upset because he left them/happy he's gone.
The state weight meet oughta be awesome.
The state weight meet should be centrally located
Quote from: incogneto on February 06, 2019, 08:05:32 pm
Nice deflection. You are being obtuse if you cannot see his facts or you simply aren't smart enough to know the definition of a fact. Where are your facts again chief? Or do you want to act like talking on a message board more counts for something again?
Incogneto, I generally like your posts. But you're wrong on this one. The only fact I can find is that Alma won 12 games in two years. If there are other facts it should be easy to identify them. There are opinions. There are no more facts.
It should be noted in one of those two years, they won a share of the conference championship and were a 1 seed in the playoffs and scored 62 points in a playoff loss to McClellan.
Quote from: PA Dad on February 07, 2019, 07:47:26 pm
Incogneto, I generally like your posts. But you're wrong on this one. The only fact I can find is that Alma won 12 games in two years. If there are other facts it should be easy to identify them. There are opinions. There are no more facts.
I was more on him for being a hick than anything. I expect a moderator to have more than post count and demanding facts for the guys personal opinion. So the dude talked to some kids and parents that ran the coach down. That's a fact that nobody can dispute. Maybe it was said in confidence. It doesn't make the parents right. More than likely the parents or kids have a selfish reason to feel that way in my personal experience, however demanding facts on his personal opinion and demeaning his opinion due to post count is just bullying behavior (from a moderator no less). I mean what's the guy supposed to do? Should he start dropping kids and parents names on here to satisfy a moderator?
Quote from: Almatrackster on February 07, 2019, 08:13:49 pm
It should be noted in one of those two years, they won a share of the conference championship and were a 1 seed in the playoffs and scored 62 points in a playoff loss to McClellan.
52*, since we are only addressing facts and post counts.
And a 4 way tie for 1st because they dropped the last game of the season to a team that wouldn't even make the playoffs with a win.
http://www.maxpreps.com/tournament/OrGz3piEEeeT-Oz0u-e-FA/OrG0TpiEEeeT-Oz0u-e-FA/football-fall-17/2017-centennial-bank-state-football-playoffs---2017-5a-football-state-bracket--.htm
Quote from: we_hate_the_band on February 08, 2019, 11:57:39 am
52*, since we are only addressing facts and post counts.
And a 4 way tie for 1st because they dropped the last game of the season to a team that wouldn't even make the playoffs with a win.
http://www.maxpreps.com/tournament/OrGz3piEEeeT-Oz0u-e-FA/OrG0TpiEEeeT-Oz0u-e-FA/football-fall-17/2017-centennial-bank-state-football-playoffs---2017-5a-football-state-bracket--.htm
Ahh yes, 52. That is a bit less.
And thank you for confirming the latter statement
Quote from: OB11 on January 22, 2019, 10:41:26 am
IMO...if you're not good in the Wing T/Dead T/I Formation/etc, you are not going to be very good in the spread either. At least not right away. Hope they give him time to install his system. May take a few years to have it running efficiently.
Very astute observation. Those who think the spread is a miracle cure for bad football don't know much football. Do you have a very good QG, multiple good receivers and lots of OL that can block one on one? If not you will not do well in the spread. Oh, yeah you can run the ball from the spread, but why would you want to if you can't pass it? Folks will load the box and come at you and your poor skill guys will not make plays. If you have really good talent you will do ok in spread, if you have great talent you may do really well but better look at the 5A conference you are in, how many of those teams are realistically a pretty sure win for you. There are reasons some schools just don't seem to win with much consistency even when they have changed coaches multiple times. I wish the new man all the luck in the world but just know a system is just a system. It's good to have one, better than just a grab bag of plays but you must have players.
best to beebe and the new coaches.
Almost every school has a QB and receivers if someone takes time to develop them. OL can be protected. What not every school has is DL, DBs and a stud RB.
Quote from: incogneto on February 07, 2019, 09:25:41 pm
I was more on him for being a hick than anything. I expect a moderator to have more than post count and demanding facts for the guys personal opinion. So the dude talked to some kids and parents that ran the coach down. That's a fact that nobody can dispute. Maybe it was said in confidence. It doesn't make the parents right. More than likely the parents or kids have a selfish reason to feel that way in my personal experience, however demanding facts on his personal opinion and demeaning his opinion due to post count is just bullying behavior (from a moderator no less). I mean what's the guy supposed to do? Should he start dropping kids and parents names on here to satisfy a moderator?
I don't think Seven questioned whether or not he had talked to anyone - but those people being opinionated doesn't make anything they say a "fact."
Why can't we demand facts on people's posts? Most of what is said on the board is opinion so it's not a bad thing to want some facts on here. Unless it's PA Dad wanting them - I don't want to ever give him facts.
Quote from: MDXPHD on February 11, 2019, 12:37:14 pm
I don't think Seven questioned whether or not he had talked to anyone - but those people being opinionated doesn't make anything they say a "fact."
Why can't we demand facts on people's posts? Most of what is said on the board is opinion so it's not a bad thing to want some facts on here. Unless it's PA Dad wanting them - I don't want to ever give him facts.
And you're good at it. I never get facts from you!
Quote from: incogneto on February 10, 2019, 08:59:50 pm
Almost every school has a QB and receivers if someone takes time to develop them. OL can be protected. What not every school has is DL, DBs and a stud RB.
I beg to differ. I've seen more teams without a good QB and WR and OL than I have teams with them. I will agree many teams lack all the positions you mentioned but I was concentrating on the needs for a good spread team. Skill guys and OL and I've seen a lot of those lacking over the years.
Quote from: gameoflife on February 11, 2019, 08:57:23 pm
I beg to differ. I've seen more teams without a good QB and WR and OL than I have teams with them. I will agree many teams lack all the positions you mentioned but I was concentrating on the needs for a good spread team. Skill guys and OL and I've seen a lot of those lacking over the years.
Most people disagree with that statement. It's still true though. I am certain by your response that the words developed and protected were ignored. It's no coincidence that staffs that know how to win always seem to have players.
Quote from: incogneto on February 11, 2019, 09:13:09 pm
Most people disagree with that statement. It's still true though. I am certain by your response that the words developed and protected were ignored. It's no coincidence that staffs that know how to win always seem to have players.
So what you are saying is that all those spread teams that are not winning games every season and there are plenty of those , just don't have good enough coaching. So in the year every once or twice in say ten years that one of the traditionally good teams doesn't win many games, its because the staff either got lazy or forgot how to coach.
Quote from: gameoflife on February 13, 2019, 03:40:48 pm
So what you are saying is that all those spread teams that are not winning games every season and there are plenty of those , just don't have good enough coaching. So in the year every once or twice in say ten years that one of the traditionally good teams doesn't win many games, its because the staff either got lazy or forgot how to coach.
Its development not coaching that I am talking about. They are kind of the same thing but coaching includes much more than just player development. A team's QB may be in development but not fully developed yet. So I disagree with your statement that thier coaches suck all of the sudden because thier players are in various stages of development. Vilonia is a very good example. You can see that staff developing players. It takes time to develop them into wide receivers and QB's. I see a lot of teams with superior talent that there is little to no growth of thier players from one year to the next.
What I am really saying is teams that win consistently don't sit around complaining about what they don't have. They quit making excuses and figure out how to develop what they do have. There are coaches that win when they have a run of players and there are coaches that develop players. The coaches that develop players win more consistently than coaches that sit around griping about not having players.