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Split: What is one thing you would change about Arkansas High School Football?

Started by muleshoe_forever, July 13, 2007, 05:08:06 pm

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muleshoe_forever

Mods,  Please do not delete this topic.   The reason for the split is my posts would take up a few pages of the original topic.  Thus confusing readers of the thread and causing a headache.

The classifications would be as follows (as listed in the original thread).
6A-30 schools
5A-36 schools
4A-42 schools
3A-48 schools
2A-49 schools
The odd number of schools is due to conferences consisting of 6 teams instead of the current 8 in 7A through 3A.  2A conferences currently go by this format and I believe it has cut down on travel distances in conference games (for the most part...not all).

The private schools will be in the following classifications (one school is different than the newest classifications):
6A- Catholic/St. Mary
5A- L.R. Christian
5A- C.A.C.
5A- Pulaski Academy
4A- Subiaco Academy
3A- Shiloh Christian
3A- Episcopal Collegiate
3A- Arkansas Baptist
3A- Harding Academy
2A- L.R. Luthern
2A- Union Christian
Change: Shiloh +2 students = 4A school (what they will be in for the new classification....all others are the same as the 2008-2010 classifications).

The number of schools in each classification was determined before looking at where the private schools would fall...so their placings had no effect on the number of schools in each classification.

Later in the topic I will post possible conferences for the teams (that is if I have time and can find a decent spot for teams in the conferences).

And yes, I was bored when I figured this out.   ;D   ;D

muleshoe_forever

July 13, 2007, 05:26:35 pm #1 Last Edit: July 13, 2007, 09:24:26 pm by muleshoe_forever
This post will list the 6A schools under my plan.   The other classifications will be listed in the following posts.   This is using the newest classification numbers and private school rules (bump up one classification from where enrollment numbers would place the school).

1.  North Little Rock
2.  Bentonville
3.  Fayetteville
4.  Conway
5.  Central (L.R.)
6. Cabot High School
7.  Southside (F.S.)
8.  Har-Ber (Springdale)
9.  Springdale
10. Bryant
11. Northside (F.S.)
12. Rogers
13. Heritage (Rogers)
14. Van Buren
15. West Memphis
16. Russellville
17. Pine Bluff
18. Jonesboro
19. El Dorado
20. Sheridan
21. Arkansas (Texarkana)
22. Hall (L.R.)
23. Benton
24. Mountain Home
25. Catholic
26. Parkview (L.R.)
27. Lake Hamilton
28. Marion
29. Watson Chapel
30. J.A. Fair

The other private schools will be listed at the end of the lists for other classifications.  Catholic is placed where enrollment numbers would place it and can not be bumped up due to 7A not existing!

This thread is intended to be public school vs. private school nuetral.  The reason for mention the private schools is to inform those who care about the subject.  My side of the issue/concern for the issue will not listed due to this being a tread for an alternative to the current classification system and NOT a private vs. public school thread.  This does not mean you can't post your view of the subject AS IT REGARDS to the placing of the of schools in classification.

muleshoe_forever

1.  Jacksonville
2.  Searcy
3.  Forrest City
4.  Siloam Springs
5.  Greenwood
6.  Magnolia
7.  Sylvan Hills
8.  Camden Fairview
9.  Alma
10. White Hall
11. Mills (L.R.)
12. Greene Co. Tech
13. Wynne
14. Hot Springs
15. Lake Side (H.S.)
16. McClellan (L.R.)
17. Beebe
18. Vilonia
19. North Pulaski
20. Harrison
21. Central (Helena)
22. Paragould
23. Batesville
24. Greenbrier
25. Blytheville
26. Hope
27. Nettleton
28. Morrilton
29. Monticello
30. Pulaski Robinson
31. Crossett
32. Arkadelphia
33. Huntsville
34. L.R. Christian
35. C.A.C.
36. Pulaski Academy

muleshoe_forever

1.  Malvern
2.  Stuttgart
3.  Clarksville
4.  Mena
5.  Pocahontas
6.  Dollarway (P.B.)
7.  Heber Springs
8.  Lonoke
9.  Waldron
10. Nashville
11. Dumas
12. Farmington
13. Berryville
14. Ozark
15. Star City
16. Trumann
17. Hamburg
18. Dardanelle
19. Highland
20. Valley View
21. Warren
22. De Queen
23. Gravette
24. Westside (Jonesboro)
25. Prairie Grove
26. Lakeside (Lake Village)
27. Pulaski Oak Grove
28. Booneville
29. Southside (Batesville)
30. Newport
31. Osceola
32. Dewitt
33. Dover
34. Lee Co. (Marianna)
35. McGehee
36. Clinton
37. Fordyce
38. Gentry
39. Pea Ridge
40. Pottsville
41. Gosnell
42. Subiaco Acad.

neafbfan


muleshoe_forever

July 13, 2007, 06:36:41 pm #5 Last Edit: July 16, 2007, 03:10:48 pm by muleshoe_forever
1.  West Fork
2.  Bald Knob
3.  Corning
4.  Cave City
5.  Lincoln
6.  Lamar
7.  Atkins
8.  Glen Rose
9.  Fountain Lake
10. Bauxite
11. Rivercrest
12. Riverview
13. Prescott
14. Mountain View
15. Green Forest
16. Marshall
17. Paris
18. Mansfield
19. Greenland
20. Yellville-Summit
21. Cedarville
22. Elkins
23. Perryville
24. Harrisburg
25. Bismarck
26. Piggott
27. Drew Central
28. Manila
29. Brinkley
30. Fouke
31. Centerpoint
32. Lafayette Co.
33. Hoxie
34. Charleston
35. Rose Bud
36. Mayflower
37. Barton
38. Gurdon
39. Rison
40. Lavaca
41. Jessieville
42. Mountainburg
43. Earle
44. Parkers Chapel
45. Shiloh Christian
46. Episcopal Collegiate
47. Arkansas Baptist
48. Harding Academy

muleshoe_forever

Quote from: neafbfan on July 13, 2007, 06:34:19 pm
Nice reasoning, but I still think you have too many classes.

I wanted to drop it back to five, but the largest enrollment number vs. smallest enrollment number were too high.  I know the larger classifications have the larger ratio, but they have more depth on their teams and can fill in spots for injured players easier.  The smaller schools have smaller ratios so they will not get banged up as easily by much larger schools and risk having their seasons ended due to injuries.  Smaller schools are also much more acceptable to having the outcome of their seasons changed by a few injuries.   This doesn't apply to everyone, but is a general "theory" (cant think of a better word). 

The ratio (size of school differential per classification) for the larger schools is not to punish the larger schools...and it is still smaller than the differential before the old 5A split.

muleshoe_forever

July 13, 2007, 07:05:06 pm #7 Last Edit: July 16, 2007, 05:45:38 pm by muleshoe_forever
1.  Harmony Grove (Camden)
2.  Magnet Cove
3.  England
4.  Salem
5.  Cross Co.
6.  Smackover
7.  Horatio
8.  E. Poinsett Co.
9.  Danville
10. Walnut Ridge
11. Hampton
12. Marvell
13. Junction City
14. Cedar Ridge
15. Hector
16. Augusta
17. Rector
18. Bearden
19. Strong
20. Des Arc
21. Hackett
22. Dermott
23. Carlisle
24. Cutter Morning Star
25. Clarendon
26. Mountain Pine
27. Hughes
28. Westside-Johnson Co.
29. Hazen
30. Palestine-Wheatley
31. Bigelow
32. Decatur
33. Mount Ida
34. Dierks
35. Hermitage
36. Foreman
37. Marked Tree
38. Ola
39. Woodlawn
40. McCrory
41. Murfreesboro
42. Mineral Springs
43. Spring Hill
44. Norphlet
45. J.D. Leftwich (Magazine)
46. Hartford
47. Western Yell Co.
48. Luthern (L.R.)
49. Union Christian

neafbfan

Key word is "theory". Ok, let's compromise. Let's drop my largest 100 to the largest 75. And keep 75 per class. You still end up with four classes (300/75). The travel may still suck, but you may even out the conferences. Some will have 9, some have 7,but they'll probably average at least 8. There wil always be a David and a Goliath matchup.

muleshoe_forever

Quote from: neafbfan on July 13, 2007, 07:08:11 pm
Key word is "theory". Ok, let's compromise. Let's drop my largest 100 to the largest 75. And keep 75 per class. You still end up with four classes (300/75). The travel may still suck, but you may even out the conferences. Some will have 9, some have 7,but they'll probably average at least 8. There wil always be a David and a Goliath matchup.

Sounds pretty good to me  ;D   And that would be better than the travel in my plan.

The questions are: 1) Should the playing field be leveled?  2) If so, to what extent should you level the playing field?

The answers: 1) Yes it should be leveled....you can not have F.S. Southside, Rogers, or Greenwood playing Western Yell Co., Dermott, or maybe even West Fork.   2)  I'm not sure their is an exact answer to this question.   My only input on this one...which prolly agrees with your input....is that the playing field has been leveled to much in some cases.

A good quote for this situation is: "Life isn't fair".   Like you said their will always be a David and Goliath matchup.   But is it too much for a school like Union Christian (I know they drop to 2A the next cycle...and this example has been used a lot plus this is prolly the worst example that I could have used) with an enrollment of 90 to be in the same conference (let alone bigger schools being in the classification) as a team with an enrollment of 281?  Or other less extreme examples?  This is where it gets tough...you can eliminate the worst example....then the worst example left...and so on....but when do you stop?   This may be a question that shouldn't have an answer!   

You do have a good point with David and Goliath....some teams even want that, I think it was Springdale's championship year (05?) when Prescott played them (I am not 100% it was Prescott who initiated the conversation of scheduling the game), but Prescott did agree to play the game.

Do you have answer to my #2 question?.... because I sure dont.


muleshoe_forever

I know this may be a disadvantage compared to what some teams see already but it will help a lot of teams also.

REMEMBER: Conferences are 6 teams and not 8

6A Central
Bryant
Benton
L.R. Central
L.R. Hall
L.R. Parkview
J.A. Fair

6A East
Cabot
Catholic
Jonesboro
Marion
Mtn. Home
West Memphis

6A Northwest
Bentonville
Fayetteville
Rogers
Rogers Heritage
Springdale
Springdale Har-Ber

6A South
El Dorado
Lake Hamilton
Pine Bluff
Sheridan
Texarkana
Watson Chapel

6A West...I know bad conference....more on it later
Conway
F.S. Northside
F.S. Southside
North Little Rock
Russellville
Van Buren

The 6A West is a bad conference on travel, but once Rogers opens their third high school (which I think is planned in time for the next classification cycle) it would push N.L.R. out of conference and this would help all but Conway.  If Fayetteville or Springdale open another high school this would put the teams back to the old 5A West membership.

Also, remember with 5 conference games Conway and N.L.R. shouldn't have to make more than 3 of these long trips!

muleshoe_forever

July 13, 2007, 08:59:03 pm #12 Last Edit: July 13, 2007, 11:00:43 pm by muleshoe_forever
I had problems with these.  Way too many teams in central Arkansas and a few too many in northeastern Arkansas.  Opposite of that, the southeastern 1/4 of the state only had 3 teams  :(   So here it is, some are better and some are worse, and not all Pulaski Co. teams are all in the same conference.

5A Central..."Rivals" conference
Beebe
Central Arkansas Christian
Greenbrier
Pulaski Academy
Pulaski Robinson
Vilonia

5A East
Central (Helena-West Helena)
Forrest City
Jacksonville
North Pulaski
Sylvan Hills
Wynne

5A Northeast
Batesville
Blytheville
Greene Co. Tech
Nettleton
Paragould
Searcy

5A Southeast...not much I could do here with 3 teams...better than Beebe vs. Crossett
Crossett
L.R. Christian
McClellan (L.R.)
Mills (L.R.)
Monticello
White Hall

5A Southwest
Arkadelphia
Camden Fairview
Hope
Hot Springs
Lakeside (H.S.)
Magnolia

5A West
Alma
Greenwood
Harrison
Huntsville
Morrilton
Siloam Springs

Searcy replaces Wynne in Wynne's tradition conference (Northeast) to give Batesville a closer conference opponent and to help form the East conference.  This was not done for Morrilton b/c it has many more 5A teams in a "close" radius than what Batesville has.  I will try to put all teams in their "traditional" conference....but sometimes they will be needed in other conferences to help reduce travel.  Remember, there is 5 non-conference games instead of 3 so a team will be able to play 2 conference rivals/most competitive teams in their traditional conference....and they might be placed in a conference with teams that are usually scheduled as non-conference games....opening more spots for their traditional conference games.

I also, tried to spread out Central Arkansas teams so you don't have some conferences traveling huge distances and having all the Little Rock teams traveling across town....they can do that in non-conference.

Will do 4A tommorow.

neafbfan


muleshoe_forever


muleshoe_forever

July 13, 2007, 10:46:35 pm #15 Last Edit: July 13, 2007, 10:58:20 pm by muleshoe_forever
Decided to go ahead and do them tonight...they're easy and ^^see above post^^

4A 1
Berryville
Farmington
Gentry
Gravette
Pea Ridge
Prairie Grove

4A 2
Clinton
Dover
Heber Springs
Highland
Newport
Pottsville

4A 3
Gosnell
Osceola
Pocahontas
Trumann
Valley View
Westside Jonesboro

4A 4
Booneville
Clarksville
Dardanelle
Ozark
Subiaco
Waldron

4A 6
DeWitt
Dollarway (P.B.)
Lonoke
Marianna
Star City
Stuttgart

4A 7
Ashdown
DeQueen
Malvern
Mena
Nashville
Oak Grove

4A 8
Dumas
Fordyce
Hamburg
Lakeside (Lake Village)
McGehee
Warren

4A 2 has a lot of traveling problems and will continue to have problems until more teams in the north central part of the state (where conference 2 teams are usually located) move up/down to the 4A level.

Dumas/Star City- Could not make a good decision as where to place the teams in the conferences 6 and 8.  They are both about equal distance from each conference....I think Dumas is more know to be a conference 8 member than Star City....maybe wrong

neafbfan

OK mule, here's my line ups. You know this will take awhile, so bear with me.

Super Class I (the largest 100 football playing schools)
Conference 1 -10
1
Bentonville, Fayetteville, Sp Har-Ber, Springdale, Rogers
Rogers Heritage, Siloam Springs, FS North and Southside,Van Buren

2
Alma, Greenwood,Harrison,Huntsville,Waldron,
Ozark,Farmington,Berryville,Gravette,Prairie Grove

3
NLR,Cabot,Cath/MSM,Parkview,Jacksonville
N.Pulaski,Sylvan Hills,Beebe,Vilonia,Mtn. Home (gotta go somewhere)

4
WMphs,Jboro,Marion,Searcy,Forrest City
Wynne,GC Tech,Paragould,Batesville,Blytheville

5
Pocahontas,Highland,Harrisburg,Trumann,Nettleton
Valley View,Westside Consolidated,Batesville SS,Newport,Osceola

6
HS Lake Hamilton,HS Lakeside,HS,Hope,Arkadelphia
Nashville,Mena,DeQueen,Ashdown,Texarkana

7
ELDO,Monticello,Crossett,Magnolia,Camden Fairview
Malvern,Star City,Hamburg,Warren,Lake Village

8
PBHS,PB White Hall, PB Watson Chapel, PB Dollarway,Stuttgart
W. Helena,Dumas,Dewitt,Lonoke,Pul Oak Grove

9
Conway,LR Central,Russellville,Hall,Fair
Mills,McClellan,Bryant,Benton,Sheridan

10
CAC,LR Christian,PA,PROB,Morrilton
Dardanelle,Booneville,Dover,Clarksville,Greenbrier

neafbfan

Super Class II (the second largest 100 football playing schools)
Conferences 1-10

1
Gentry,Pea Ridge, West Fork,Shiloh,Lincoln
Lamar,Green Forest,Greenland,Elkins,Cedarville

2*
Centerpoint,Mountainburg,Hector,Jo.Co.Westside,Decatur
Mineral Springs,Hackett,Ola,Hartford

3*
Epis.Collegiate,Ark Baptist,Salem,Clinton,Marshall
Mt.View,Yellville,Rose Bud,Mayflower

4
East Poinsett Co.,Marked Tree,Hoxie, Walnut Ridge,Corning
Piggott,Gosnell,Rivercrest,Manila*,Rector

5
Woodlawn,Carlisle,Hazen,Barton,Lee
England,Marvell,Clarendon,Hughes,Pal-Wheatley

6
Glen Rose,Bauxite,Prescott,Fouke,Lafayette Co
Harm Grove,Gurdon,Magnet Cove,Hampton,Bearden

7
Ftn.Lake,Horatio,Jessieville,Cutter Morning Star,Murfreesboro
Mtn.Pine,Foreman,Bismark,Dierks,Spring Hill

8
Pottsville,Atkins,Mansfield,Subiaco,Paris
Perryville,Mt.Ida,Danville,Charleston,Lavaca

9*
Harding Academy,Des Arc,Earle,Cross County,Harrisburg
Brinkley,Augusta,McCrory,Bald Knob

10
Drew Central,Rison,Parkers Chapel,Smackover,Strong
Junction City,Hermitage,Dermott,McGehee,Norphlet

9* Nine league members

neafbfan

Super Class III (ALL non football schools)
Conferences 1-12

1.
Mulberry,Eureka Springs,valley Springs,Flippin,Bergman
St.Joseph,Leslie,Trinity and Fayetteville Christian Academies

2.
Union Christian Aca,Concord,Scranton,Shirley,Jasper
Alpena,Bee Branch,Omaha,Lead Hill

3.
Western Grove,St.Paul,Der,Timbo,Mt.Judea
Kingston,Oark,Pleasant View,JD Leftwich

4
Pangburn,Rural Special,Cotter,Twin Rivers,White Co. Central
Mt.Pleasant,Quitman,Williford,St.Joe,Bruno-Pyatt

5
Cushman,Evening Shade,Mammo Springs,Mtn.Vernon-Enola
Calico Rock,ICC,Bradford,Hillcrest,Norfork,Viola

6
Cedar Ridge,Sloan-Hendrix,Tuckerman,Black Rock,Maynard
Ridgefield,Weiner,Riverview

7
BIC,Brookland,Marmaduke,Riverside
Bay,Crowley's Ridge Aca,Armorel,Turrell**

8
Gillett,Abundant Life,Lutheran,Guy-Perkins
Wonderview,ArScForDeaf,Midland

9
W.Yell Co.,Plainview,St.Joe Cath,Fourche Valley
Sacred Heart,Nemo Vista,HALL Aca

10
Caddo Hills,Kirby,Blevins
Delight,Emmet,Umpire,Westside

11
Van-Cove,Acorn,Lockesburg,ArScMath&Sci,Oden
Saratoga,Bradley,Taylor

12
Poyen,Ouachita,Stephens,Nevada,Emerson
Sparkman,Genoa Central,HG (Camden),Wickes

*May have football. In which case would move to confernce 4 and replace Manila, unless Manila starts football, then Turrell would go to the 9 moving HA to the 3 and Ark Baptist to the 2 completing the arrangements.

Grim

Why do y'all keep trying to change stuff? There's nothing wrong with the way things are set up now.

neafbfan

Nothing, except that a team went 0-for-8 and still went to the playoffs, only to lose in round 1 61-0.
Except that you can finish no better than 6th place in an 8 team conference and still go to the state tournament only to lose in round 1 on your own home court.
Except that teams have to travel 2-2.5 hours to play a 40 minute game and still be expected to perform in the class room the following day.But,I guess I see your point.Oh wait,no I don't.

Going to a super conference format is how the SWC folded and the Big 8 became the Big 12 North and South and the SEC expanded from 10 to 12 teams in the East and West and became super conferences. God bless Frank Broyles. Even though it's past time for him to go.Back on track.The Big 10 added Penn State,but are still called the Big 10. Yankee math I guess.

Bigger conferences = bigger gates. Do we really need 7 classes? Three or four at most.

wildcat_x-mgr

I counted four schools in your Super Class III that currently have football (Union Christian, Western Yell Co., and Camden Harmony Grove) and three that are listed in 2008 to have football (Cedar Ridge, Lutheran and Riverview). And I couldn't find Fordyce anywhere in there.

muleshoe_forever

Quote from: Grim on July 14, 2007, 01:29:00 pm
Why do y'all keep trying to change stuff? There's nothing wrong with the way things are set up now.

I'm going to explain some wierd conference matchups in 3A.    Get out a state map for this one  ;D  because I can see no good reasoning behind this one.

Mtn. View and Yellville-Summit (both located in the north central part of the state) are in a conference with Atkins, Lamar, Paris (all located in west central arkansas) and Perryville (located in central arkansas).   Harding Academy, Riverview, and Rose Bud (located in central/north central arkansas....locals consider it north central arkansas...sound familiar^^^) are in a conference with England, Episcopal, and Mayflower (central arkansas).

Why is Mtn. View and Yellville-Summit (old conference opponents of Riverview) along with Marshall not in the same conference as Harding, Riverview, and Rose Bud?   

Why is Paris, Lamar, Atkins, and especially Perryville not in a conference with Episcopal, Mayflower, and England?

Is this not a problem?  My selections for conferences reduces travel a good bit.

muleshoe_forever

July 16, 2007, 12:10:48 am #23 Last Edit: July 16, 2007, 03:08:06 pm by muleshoe_forever
3A 1
Elkins
Greenland
Green Forest
Lincoln
Shiloh Christian
West Fork

3A 2  Mtn. View vs. Paris/Riverview (in Searcy)  Which is closer?
Cave City
Marshall
Mtn. View
Riverview
Rose Bud
Yellville-Summit

3A 3
Corning
Harrisburg
Hoxie
Manila
Piggott
Rivercrest

3A 4
Cedarville
Charleston
Lavaca
Mansfield
Mountainburg
Paris

3A 5
Atkins
Bauxite
Jessieville
Lamar
Rose Bud
Perryville

3A 6
Bald Knob
Barton
Brinkley
Earle
Harding Academy
Mayflower

3A 7
Bismarck
Centerpoint
Fouke
Fountain Lake
Lafayette Co.
Prescott

3A 8
Arkansas Baptist
Drew Central
Episcopal Collegiate
Glen Rose
Parkers Chapel
Rison

Reduced a lot of teams travel times while increasing times for only a few schools.  Still not much can be done for schools in the southeastern 1/4 of the state.

Grim

I'm not even going to consider taking any of you seriously until you learn how to spell BismarCk correctly.

neafbfan

Quote from: wildcat_x-mgr on July 15, 2007, 09:39:39 pm
I counted four schools in your Super Class III that currently have football (Union Christian, Western Yell Co., and Camden Harmony Grove) and three that are listed in 2008 to have football (Cedar Ridge, Lutheran and Riverview). And I couldn't find Fordyce anywhere in there.

Thanks for the second pair of eyes wildcat. I'm sure those schools can fit in with the arrangement. Although they were probably left out because the system calls for the second largest 100. Seven more can make a differnece, but they can be worked in a conference here and there.

Mule, you and I both are on the same page to reduce the travel as much as possible.

Bismark, Bismarck. Typos happen.

Grim


neafbfan

OK, Grim, what would be your responmse to the topic heading?What is one thing you would change about Arkansas High School Football?

Grim

I have already said that I like it just the way it is. I was an advocate of this current format a decade before they put it in place.

The only thing I would change is the 7A/6A situation. That needs to be one class. Other than that don't change a thing!

neafbfan

Quote from: wildcat_x-mgr on July 15, 2007, 09:39:39 pm
I counted four schools in your Super Class III that currently have football (Union Christian, Western Yell Co., and Camden Harmony Grove) and three that are listed in 2008 to have football (Cedar Ridge, Lutheran and Riverview). And I couldn't find Fordyce anywhere in there.

OK, here's the placement with the above additions. Should keep travel minimum and rivals intact.See page two of this thread.

Union Chritian to the 2.
Riverview to the 3.
Cedar Ridge to the 9.
W. Yell Co. to the 8.
C. Harmony Grove to the 7.
Lutheran to the 5.

Simple enough. All conferences have at least 10 teams no more than 12 like the SEC and Big 12.

w.d.s.

Quote from: Grim on July 16, 2007, 07:25:44 am
I'm not even going to consider taking any of you seriously until you learn how to spell BismarCk correctly.

and none of us are going to take bismarck serious until... well we are never going to take bismarck serious.

wildcat_x-mgr

The one thing Grim would change is that anytime someone misspells Bismar*k an alarm goes off and cops show up at their house.

Get over the fact that that's probably the easiest town in Arkansas to misspell.

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